Moderation and censorship is out of hand

spartaxoxo · January 12

RomanRex wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

LikiLoki wrote: »

Now is the moment when the world's social networks are removing excessive censorship and returning to freedom of speech. The gaming industry should embrace this trend and put its gendarme in a cage.

Freedom of speech is the right to express ideas and opinions without fear of government retaliation, censorship, or legal action. It is not a license to criticize and insult other posters for having a differing opinion on a gaming forum.

Players that have positive experiences are already ostracized for giving their opinion. We need less of that, not more.

I feel like this is totally wrong. I feel like relentlessly optimistic posts are largely based on feelings or being contrarian so less valid.

Just my opinion though. If people want to disagree based on opinion, this all that is needed to justify it.

Relentlessly negative posts are largely based on feelings too.

The actual truth is that this game has earned 2 billion dollars and lasted over a decade. It's has done plenty of things well. It's also doing plenty of things poorly. This is something the devs themselves will admit.

I think that whether someone's experience with the game is largely positive or negative is going to be determined by their playstyle, personal taste, experiences with other players, etc.

If you come with the opinion that someone is less valid because they have a different experience than you, positive or negative, then you're being biased.

SilverBride · January 12

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

It's not that the poster “having a good experience”is the problem, it's the often the wording and non-empathy of the tone, that garners negative responses. Yep you can make statement but it's unreasonable not to expect a push back if it's, at best, a complete disregarding of others experience.

Posting something like "I've not had any negative effects from this" does not display non-empathy. It's doesn't even address anyone else's feedback, let alone disregard them.

TaSheen · January 12

spartaxoxo wrote: »

RomanRex wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

LikiLoki wrote: »

Now is the moment when the world's social networks are removing excessive censorship and returning to freedom of speech. The gaming industry should embrace this trend and put its gendarme in a cage.

Freedom of speech is the right to express ideas and opinions without fear of government retaliation, censorship, or legal action. It is not a license to criticize and insult other posters for having a differing opinion on a gaming forum.

Players that have positive experiences are already ostracized for giving their opinion. We need less of that, not more.

I feel like this is totally wrong. I feel like relentlessly optimistic posts are largely based on feelings or being contrarian so less valid.

Just my opinion though. If people want to disagree based on opinion, this all that is needed to justify it.

Relentlessly negative posts are largely based on feelings too.

The actual truth is that this game has earned 2 billion dollars and lasted over a decade. It's has done plenty of things well. It's also doing plenty of things poorly. This is something the devs themselves will admit.

I think that whether someone's experience with the game is largely positive or negative is going to be determined by their playstyle, personal taste, experiences with other players, etc.

If you come with the opinion that someone is less valid because they have a different experience than you, positive or negative, then you're being biased.

So much this....

SilverBride · January 12

RomanRex wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Freedom of speech is the right to express ideas and opinions without fear of government retaliation, censorship, or legal action. It is not a license to criticize and insult other posters for having a differing opinion on a gaming forum.

Players that have positive experiences are already ostracized for giving their opinion. We need less of that, not more.

I feel like this is totally wrong. I feel like relentlessly optimistic posts are largely based on feelings or being contrarian so less valid.

Just my opinion though. If people want to disagree based on opinion, this all that is needed to justify it.

Feelings are part of feedback, and all feedback, positive or negative, is based on how we feel about the topic.

Having a different experience and opinion is not being contrarian. It is only presenting their personal feedback and has nothing to do with anyone else's feedback.

We need to just agree to disagree now and leave it at that.

BagOfBadgers · January 12

"SilverBride wrote: »

Posting something like "I've not had any negative effects from this" does not display non-empathy. It's doesn't even address anyone else's feedback, let alone disregard them.

In your opinion. Not mine or others.

Have you ever had the Child, Adult, Parent interaction presented to you good self? Quick brief. You want a conversation to be Adult - Adult as that is the most effective communication and problem solving interaction. Child – Parent is the worst, for obvious reasons.

Why is worth noting? Well many have felt ZOS is the Parent and we are the Adults (most of the time) and I would expect that ZOS would see the roles reversed.

Interactions on here, and especially this thread fall, in to Adult - Parent and Parent – Adult. Are posters purposely doing this or unaware that they are, I don't know.

Again you're free to have what ever posting style you like, but expect pushback (as long as it's within the terms and conditions that ZOS has set out) if it comes across as not reading the room.

“I'm having a great time”. Cool and that adds to the conversation what?

I'm expecting that I will be told that I'm wrong any moment ....... now.

SilverBride · January 12

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

“I'm having a great time”. Cool and that adds to the conversation what?

It adds every bit as much to the conversation as "This change ruined the game."

spartaxoxo · January 12

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

Have you ever had the Child, Adult, Parent interaction presented to you good self? Quick brief. You want a conversation to be Adult - Adult as that is the most effective communication and problem solving interaction. Child – Parent is the worst, for obvious reasons.

I wasn't the one this was asked to but could you explain this a little more to me? I hadn't heard of it before but it sounds interesting and useful.

BagOfBadgers · January 12

SilverBride wrote: »

It adds every bit as much to the conversation as "This change ruined the game."

I refer you to a previous post where I answerd that not long ago.

@spartaxoxo I'll get back to when I'm out the game, if that's OK?

Off to play ESO. TTFN

spartaxoxo · January 12

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

It adds every bit as much to the conversation as "This change ruined the game."

I refer you to a previous post where I answerd that not long ago.

@spartaxoxo I'll get back to when I'm out the game, if that's OK?

Off to play ESO. TTFN

Yes, that's fine. Thanks for the heads up 😃

FeedbackOnly · January 12

Ai should not replace humans

SilverBride · January 12

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

It adds every bit as much to the conversation as "This change ruined the game."

I refer you to a previous post where I answerd that not long ago.

We need to just agree to disagree now and leave it at that.

Lyraen_Skyforge · January 12

I feel like some people operate in the Community Rules, but often do so in a disingenuous way that doesn’t really add value to the dialogue or seems purely contrarian… not violating any guidelines.

That is my opinion though.

Arunei · January 13

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Ai should not replace humans

It especially shouldn't be replacing humans in cases of flagging content. The bot/AI/whatever it is that now flags potential "abuse" or whatever is just going to bury CS under false positives by a system that can't tell context, can't tell if people roasting each other are friends, can't tell if a person is ranting in a private instance by themselves, and so on.

oldbobdude · January 13

vsrs_au wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

In my Not so Humble Opinion, as they say. People who report people for language that that person has the ability to block/ignore are targeting people for harassment, and they should be the ones being punished for not using the tools that ZOS have given us to keep the peace. That's a hill I'd be willing to die on.

What if the person receiving the bad language has a full ignore list?

lol. I guess the person with a full ignore list gets “offended” often then.

Syldras · January 13

oldbobdude wrote: »

vsrs_au wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

In my Not so Humble Opinion, as they say. People who report people for language that that person has the ability to block/ignore are targeting people for harassment, and they should be the ones being punished for not using the tools that ZOS have given us to keep the peace. That's a hill I'd be willing to die on.

What if the person receiving the bad language has a full ignore list?

lol. I guess the person with a full ignore list gets “offended” often then.

Were we talking about game chat? Not sure how full my block list is there, but I usually use it to block out the usual guild ads (I'm not interested in joining them anyway) so my chat box is less cluttered. That's all. Nothing offensive, just a matter of convenience.

Arunei · January 13

oldbobdude wrote: »

vsrs_au wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

In my Not so Humble Opinion, as they say. People who report people for language that that person has the ability to block/ignore are targeting people for harassment, and they should be the ones being punished for not using the tools that ZOS have given us to keep the peace. That's a hill I'd be willing to die on.

What if the person receiving the bad language has a full ignore list?

lol. I guess the person with a full ignore list gets “offended” often then.

The ignore list in-game at least is only 100. That's...not a lot at ALL considering this is an MMO played around the world by thousands.

oldbobdude · January 14

Syldras wrote: »

oldbobdude wrote: »

vsrs_au wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

In my Not so Humble Opinion, as they say. People who report people for language that that person has the ability to block/ignore are targeting people for harassment, and they should be the ones being punished for not using the tools that ZOS have given us to keep the peace. That's a hill I'd be willing to die on.

What if the person receiving the bad language has a full ignore list?

lol. I guess the person with a full ignore list gets “offended” often then.

Were we talking about game chat? Not sure how full my block list is there, but I usually use it to block out the usual guild ads (I'm not interested in joining them anyway) so my chat box is less cluttered. That's all. Nothing offensive, just a matter of convenience.

I guess you’d have to decide what you want to ignore then. Somebody cursing you or a

Syldras · January 14

oldbobdude wrote: »

I guess you’d have to decide what you want to ignore then. Somebody cursing you or a

I'd favor more options to customize the chat box. We can already change for a few groups/channels (guilds, single language chats) whether we want them displayed in the chat box or not. If we could deactivate every channel, including zone, and choose to only see messages sent through group or whisper, then I wouldn't have my chat box cluttered with guild, goldseller and whatnot spam, and people who dislike profanity could also avoid that.

Amottica · January 14

Syldras wrote: »

oldbobdude wrote: »

vsrs_au wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

In my Not so Humble Opinion, as they say. People who report people for language that that person has the ability to block/ignore are targeting people for harassment, and they should be the ones being punished for not using the tools that ZOS have given us to keep the peace. That's a hill I'd be willing to die on.

What if the person receiving the bad language has a full ignore list?

lol. I guess the person with a full ignore list gets “offended” often then.

Were we talking about game chat? Not sure how full my block list is there, but I usually use it to block out the usual guild ads (I'm not interested in joining them anyway) so my chat box is less cluttered. That's all. Nothing offensive, just a matter of convenience.

I tend to have zone chat turned off, which effectively eliminates ads and trolls. It keeps my chat cleaner and is convenient.

TaSheen · January 14

Amottica wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

oldbobdude wrote: »

vsrs_au wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

In my Not so Humble Opinion, as they say. People who report people for language that that person has the ability to block/ignore are targeting people for harassment, and they should be the ones being punished for not using the tools that ZOS have given us to keep the peace. That's a hill I'd be willing to die on.

What if the person receiving the bad language has a full ignore list?

lol. I guess the person with a full ignore list gets “offended” often then.

Were we talking about game chat? Not sure how full my block list is there, but I usually use it to block out the usual guild ads (I'm not interested in joining them anyway) so my chat box is less cluttered. That's all. Nothing offensive, just a matter of convenience.

I tend to have zone chat turned off, which effectively eliminates ads and trolls. It keeps my chat cleaner and is convenient.

First thing I did in this game. After WoW and RIFT, I already knew I wasn't going to be bothered by zone chat garbage....

Syldras · January 14

TaSheen wrote: »

First thing I did in this game. After WoW and RIFT, I already knew I wasn't going to be bothered by zone chat garbage....

Does it work? I think it's not possible to remove everything? The last time I looked I think there was still something beyond group chat going through. I guess I'll have to check again later.

TaSheen · January 14

Oh. Yeah, forgot.... addon.... Chat Window Manager by Phinix. I absolutely refuse to have stuff in chat foisted on me.

Syldras · January 14

TaSheen wrote: »

Oh. Yeah, forgot.... addon.... Chat Window Manager by Phinix. I absolutely refuse to have stuff in chat foisted on me.

Oh, thank you! I'll look for that. Because it's really tiring to scrolls through large walls of ad text if all I want is to chat with a friend while playing.

TaSheen · January 14

Syldras wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Oh. Yeah, forgot.... addon.... Chat Window Manager by Phinix. I absolutely refuse to have stuff in chat foisted on me.

Oh, thank you! I'll look for that. Because it's really tiring to scrolls through large walls of ad text if all I want is to chat with a friend while playing.

On the few occasions where a friend and I needed chat away from having the window open to zone, we popped new panes and used that, after "sanitizing" what got displayed.

Other than that, I mostly use the addon to keep the chat window closed at all times. There is NOTHING there I ever need to see. I can't even remember what all it does now. There might be a better one for your purposes out there - well, probably is actually. So check out the whole list of them!

AngryPenguin · January 14

CrazyKitty wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

I see far, far too frequent favoritism and inconsistent enforcement of the rules.

For instance, the Code of conduct says:

"• Inappropriate Content and Language: Certain topics and subjects are deemed inappropriate and not permitted on the official ESO forums. Things that we consider inappropriate are usually illegal, extremely volatile or violent, obscene, vulgar, or simply inappropriate for an official game forum such as ours. Inappropriate content on the ESO forums includes, but is not limited to the following:
• Extreme violence
• Illegal substances and activities
• Pirated copyright-protected material
• Pornography and other sexually explicit topics
• Real-world religion and politics
• Tasteless, vulgar, or obscene material”

Yet there is a regular poster that is allowed to have a signature that reads:

“The Lord Jesus Christ saved me from sin and darkness. His love has transformed me so that I am a new creature in Him. May you find Him too, and experience His richness and goodness!”

If this isn't using the ESO forums to promote real world religion I don't know what is. What if we replace “Jesus Christ” with Allah, or Satan or whatever god that others would certainly find offensive?

The moderation is just too selective and favors certain views over others, regardless of what the letter of the law says in terms of conduct.

@ZOS_Kevin

This is a very good point. This signature is a direct violation of the Code of Conduct, yet no action has been taken in how many days now after bringing it to the attention of the moderators? Why has no action been taken to deal with this blatant violation of the Code of conduct?

@ZOS_Kevin
@ZOS_Hadeostry
@ZOS_Icy

Rules are not rules if they aren't enforced equally for everyone. Do we really want to open the door for every person on this forum to promote their religion? Because not taking action on this is opening that door.

I just noticed this signature in the Nvidia elk mount thread myself and it really stood out to me as well. The poster was being helpful, but their signature is a crazy blatant violation of the sticky posted code of conduct.

As you say, if the rules aren't enforced equally for everyone, there are no rules. The code of conduct sticky post can be greatly redacted to be reflective of how the forum is actually being moderated. Just change the forum code of conduct to read:

"The rules are whatever we decide they are at any given time and are subject to change at any time for any reason and will be applied differently for different posters".

This is a real problem folks. Forum moderation has to apply equally to everyone at all times and in all cases.

@ZOS_Kevin
@ZOS_Hadeostry
@ZOS_Icy

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_RichLambert
@ZOS_MattFiror
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Can I change my signature to read "There is only one true god and Mohamed is his prophet"? (serious question, can I?) If one poster is allowed to promote religion, then all posters are allowed to promote their religion as well. Right?

It's been about week now since this issue was pointed out. Why has no action been taken against the poster blatantly violating the code of conduct and using the forum as a platform to promote religion? We know for certain the moderators are aware of this issue and are choosing not to take any action, which makes it clear to the community there really isn't a code of conduct at all outside of we can post anything as long as it's ok with the moderators regardless of what the code of conduct says.

Is there a code of conduct on this forum or not?

“The Lord Jesus Christ saved me from sin and darkness. His love has transformed me so that I am a new creature in Him. May you find Him too, and experience His richness and goodness!” isn't just discussing religion, it's preaching it.

What is going on here when this is allowed and is so blatantly inflammatory to anyone belonging to any religion other than Christianity?

@ZOS_Kevin
@ZOS_Hadeostry
@ZOS_Icy
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_MattFiror
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_Phoenix

With moderation this inconsistent and biased it's undeniable that the moderation system in place needs a massive overhaul.

lunaslide · January 15

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

Have you ever had the Child, Adult, Parent interaction presented to you good self? Quick brief. You want a conversation to be Adult - Adult as that is the most effective communication and problem solving interaction. Child – Parent is the worst, for obvious reasons.

I wasn't the one this was asked to but could you explain this a little more to me? I hadn't heard of it before but it sounds interesting and useful.

@BagOfBadgers It's probably too deep of a cut in psychology to just mention the ego states involved without the source, but the insight from transactional analysis could certainly benefit the discussion.

@spartaxoxo The concept of people inhabiting and switching ego roles in conversations was popularized in a book by psychologist Eric Berne called "Games People Play" on the topic of transactional analysis. It's a way of looking at healthy. and unhealthy interactions that shows where communication break downs can arise, and gives many examples of these common "games". A brief summary:

https://elevatesociety.com/games-people-play-summary-review/

ZOS_Kevin · January 15

AngryPenguin wrote: »

CrazyKitty wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

I see far, far too frequent favoritism and inconsistent enforcement of the rules.

For instance, the Code of conduct says:

"• Inappropriate Content and Language: Certain topics and subjects are deemed inappropriate and not permitted on the official ESO forums. Things that we consider inappropriate are usually illegal, extremely volatile or violent, obscene, vulgar, or simply inappropriate for an official game forum such as ours. Inappropriate content on the ESO forums includes, but is not limited to the following:
• Extreme violence
• Illegal substances and activities
• Pirated copyright-protected material
• Pornography and other sexually explicit topics
• Real-world religion and politics
• Tasteless, vulgar, or obscene material”

Yet there is a regular poster that is allowed to have a signature that reads:

“The Lord Jesus Christ saved me from sin and darkness. His love has transformed me so that I am a new creature in Him. May you find Him too, and experience His richness and goodness!”

If this isn't using the ESO forums to promote real world religion I don't know what is. What if we replace “Jesus Christ” with Allah, or Satan or whatever god that others would certainly find offensive?

The moderation is just too selective and favors certain views over others, regardless of what the letter of the law says in terms of conduct.

@ZOS_Kevin

This is a very good point. This signature is a direct violation of the Code of Conduct, yet no action has been taken in how many days now after bringing it to the attention of the moderators? Why has no action been taken to deal with this blatant violation of the Code of conduct?

@ZOS_Kevin
@ZOS_Hadeostry
@ZOS_Icy

Rules are not rules if they aren't enforced equally for everyone. Do we really want to open the door for every person on this forum to promote their religion? Because not taking action on this is opening that door.

I just noticed this signature in the Nvidia elk mount thread myself and it really stood out to me as well. The poster was being helpful, but their signature is a crazy blatant violation of the sticky posted code of conduct.

As you say, if the rules aren't enforced equally for everyone, there are no rules. The code of conduct sticky post can be greatly redacted to be reflective of how the forum is actually being moderated. Just change the forum code of conduct to read:

"The rules are whatever we decide they are at any given time and are subject to change at any time for any reason and will be applied differently for different posters".

This is a real problem folks. Forum moderation has to apply equally to everyone at all times and in all cases.

@ZOS_Kevin
@ZOS_Hadeostry
@ZOS_Icy

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_RichLambert
@ZOS_MattFiror
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Can I change my signature to read "There is only one true god and Mohamed is his prophet"? (serious question, can I?) If one poster is allowed to promote religion, then all posters are allowed to promote their religion as well. Right?

It's been about week now since this issue was pointed out. Why has no action been taken against the poster blatantly violating the code of conduct and using the forum as a platform to promote religion? We know for certain the moderators are aware of this issue and are choosing not to take any action, which makes it clear to the community there really isn't a code of conduct at all outside of we can post anything as long as it's ok with the moderators regardless of what the code of conduct says.

Is there a code of conduct on this forum or not?

“The Lord Jesus Christ saved me from sin and darkness. His love has transformed me so that I am a new creature in Him. May you find Him too, and experience His richness and goodness!” isn't just discussing religion, it's preaching it.

What is going on here when this is allowed and is so blatantly inflammatory to anyone belonging to any religion other than Christianity?

@ZOS_Kevin
@ZOS_Hadeostry
@ZOS_Icy
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_MattFiror
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_Phoenix

With moderation this inconsistent and biased it's undeniable that the moderation system in place needs a massive overhaul.

Hey there, wanted to follow up here. Please make sure to use the report function of the forum when you see potential violations. It is a lot easier to track when reports are put through. We see a lot of what happens on the forums, but between upticks in notifications, other conversations, etc. sometimes we can miss a tag in a post. Reporting issues using the forum reporting function is helpful for us to address things faster.

BagOfBadgers · January 15

@lunaslide. Thank you for posting and your right. I was unsure what to add as information, so I'll correct that. What follows is a brief description concerning the Parent, Adult and Child theory with a link from where I got this text.

Berne’s theory is that we each have three main ways of thinking and responding to the world around us and other people in particular. He called these our ego states. He saw us as each having three natural ego stages: Parent, Adult and Child.
Here is a very brief introduction to each of these states.

Parent
Our Parent ego state is the frame of mind we’re in when we say or do something parental. It may be a nurturing parental comment or a controlling parental comment. Most conversations involving conflict involve the controlling Parent ego state: for example, I tell you off for doing something I don’t like. But if we find ourselves giving in to poor behaviour, we might be in the nurturing Parent ego state: for example, mollycoddling the badly behaving person or letting them get away with their unreasonable behaviour.

Child
Our Child ego state is the frame of mind we’re in when we say or do something childlike. It may be a ‘good child’ thing or a ‘naughty child’ thing. When in dispute with someone else, it tends to be our naughty Child ego state that’s in play. Here, we tend to behave spontaneously according to our needs and feelings - childishly. For example, being angry, attacking, disobedient, rude, provocative or sulky.

Adult
Things always go better for us in a conversation that is one of conflict (or liable to move into conflict) if we can avoid stepping into our Parent or Child ego state band instead be in our Adult state. In ‘Adult’, we can say and do healthy, calm, grown-up things. We can do so because we’re not hijacked by either overly parental thoughts and feelings, or childlike responses. It is where the phrase “adult-to-adult conversation” comes from.

When we speak from our Child ego state, the other person in the conversation has three options. They may respond from their ‘Parent’, often admonishing us for what we’ve just said. Or they may respond from their ‘Child’, which might be responding to our rudeness/anger/attack/sarcasm with their own rudeness/anger/attack/sarcasm. But, if we’re lucky, they may be able to respond from their ‘Adult’, in which they manage to provide us with a measured, mature response that will de-escalate the conflict that may be creeping into the conversation. (Think of the Adult state as how a judge might approach a legal decision or ensure a trial runs smoothly and fairly.)

The antidote for us is to have an eye open to what’s happening in terms of this model, beneath the surface of an interaction, and doing our best to only respond from our ‘Adult’ self, rather than our ‘Parent’ or ‘Child’.

https://www.lukemenziescoaching.com/blog/dealing-with-difficult-clients-and-opponents-the-parent-adult-child-model

SaffronCitrusflower · January 15

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

CrazyKitty wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

I see far, far too frequent favoritism and inconsistent enforcement of the rules.

For instance, the Code of conduct says:

"• Inappropriate Content and Language: Certain topics and subjects are deemed inappropriate and not permitted on the official ESO forums. Things that we consider inappropriate are usually illegal, extremely volatile or violent, obscene, vulgar, or simply inappropriate for an official game forum such as ours. Inappropriate content on the ESO forums includes, but is not limited to the following:
• Extreme violence
• Illegal substances and activities
• Pirated copyright-protected material
• Pornography and other sexually explicit topics
• Real-world religion and politics
• Tasteless, vulgar, or obscene material”

Yet there is a regular poster that is allowed to have a signature that reads:

“The Lord Jesus Christ saved me from sin and darkness. His love has transformed me so that I am a new creature in Him. May you find Him too, and experience His richness and goodness!”

If this isn't using the ESO forums to promote real world religion I don't know what is. What if we replace “Jesus Christ” with Allah, or Satan or whatever god that others would certainly find offensive?

The moderation is just too selective and favors certain views over others, regardless of what the letter of the law says in terms of conduct.

@ZOS_Kevin

This is a very good point. This signature is a direct violation of the Code of Conduct, yet no action has been taken in how many days now after bringing it to the attention of the moderators? Why has no action been taken to deal with this blatant violation of the Code of conduct?

@ZOS_Kevin
@ZOS_Hadeostry
@ZOS_Icy

Rules are not rules if they aren't enforced equally for everyone. Do we really want to open the door for every person on this forum to promote their religion? Because not taking action on this is opening that door.

I just noticed this signature in the Nvidia elk mount thread myself and it really stood out to me as well. The poster was being helpful, but their signature is a crazy blatant violation of the sticky posted code of conduct.

As you say, if the rules aren't enforced equally for everyone, there are no rules. The code of conduct sticky post can be greatly redacted to be reflective of how the forum is actually being moderated. Just change the forum code of conduct to read:

"The rules are whatever we decide they are at any given time and are subject to change at any time for any reason and will be applied differently for different posters".

This is a real problem folks. Forum moderation has to apply equally to everyone at all times and in all cases.

@ZOS_Kevin
@ZOS_Hadeostry
@ZOS_Icy

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_RichLambert
@ZOS_MattFiror
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Can I change my signature to read "There is only one true god and Mohamed is his prophet"? (serious question, can I?) If one poster is allowed to promote religion, then all posters are allowed to promote their religion as well. Right?

It's been about week now since this issue was pointed out. Why has no action been taken against the poster blatantly violating the code of conduct and using the forum as a platform to promote religion? We know for certain the moderators are aware of this issue and are choosing not to take any action, which makes it clear to the community there really isn't a code of conduct at all outside of we can post anything as long as it's ok with the moderators regardless of what the code of conduct says.

Is there a code of conduct on this forum or not?

“The Lord Jesus Christ saved me from sin and darkness. His love has transformed me so that I am a new creature in Him. May you find Him too, and experience His richness and goodness!” isn't just discussing religion, it's preaching it.

What is going on here when this is allowed and is so blatantly inflammatory to anyone belonging to any religion other than Christianity?

@ZOS_Kevin
@ZOS_Hadeostry
@ZOS_Icy
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_MattFiror
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_Phoenix

With moderation this inconsistent and biased it's undeniable that the moderation system in place needs a massive overhaul.

Hey there, wanted to follow up here. Please make sure to use the report function of the forum when you see potential violations. It is a lot easier to track when reports are put through. We see a lot of what happens on the forums, but between upticks in notifications, other conversations, etc. sometimes we can miss a tag in a post. Reporting issues using the forum reporting function is helpful for us to address things faster.

Of course we started by reporting the post and the offense to the forum moderators using the flag function. I've put in two reports of the original violator myself, the first one about 7 days ago. The second a couple days ago. I know of at least one other poster that also used the flag function to no avail.

I even DM'd Icy directly and pointed it out. And I posted in a thread right after the original offender posted asking them directly to change their signature.

Believe me, we absolutely did try the normal channels before taking the issue public and started tagging ZOS reps other than the moderators. No action was taken despite being fully informed of the infraction until today. So thank you for finally addressing this issue and getting it resolved. This is something the forum moderators absolutely should have resolved over a week ago without the need for us to bring it to the attention of ZOS reps publicly via tagging.

This just highlights how inconsistent and unresponsive the forum moderators are, which is the subject of this thread in the first place. This forums moderation needs an overhaul in a major way. This issue is just one of many examples showing why.

Thank you @ZOS_Kevin

Come to think of it, why do we even need signatures?

[Edit for Discussing Disciplinary Action]

sans-culottes · January 15

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

CrazyKitty wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

I see far, far too frequent favoritism and inconsistent enforcement of the rules.

For instance, the Code of conduct says:

"• Inappropriate Content and Language: Certain topics and subjects are deemed inappropriate and not permitted on the official ESO forums. Things that we consider inappropriate are usually illegal, extremely volatile or violent, obscene, vulgar, or simply inappropriate for an official game forum such as ours. Inappropriate content on the ESO forums includes, but is not limited to the following:
• Extreme violence
• Illegal substances and activities
• Pirated copyright-protected material
• Pornography and other sexually explicit topics
• Real-world religion and politics
• Tasteless, vulgar, or obscene material”

Yet there is a regular poster that is allowed to have a signature that reads:

“The Lord Jesus Christ saved me from sin and darkness. His love has transformed me so that I am a new creature in Him. May you find Him too, and experience His richness and goodness!”

If this isn't using the ESO forums to promote real world religion I don't know what is. What if we replace “Jesus Christ” with Allah, or Satan or whatever god that others would certainly find offensive?

The moderation is just too selective and favors certain views over others, regardless of what the letter of the law says in terms of conduct.

@ZOS_Kevin

This is a very good point. This signature is a direct violation of the Code of Conduct, yet no action has been taken in how many days now after bringing it to the attention of the moderators? Why has no action been taken to deal with this blatant violation of the Code of conduct?

@ZOS_Kevin
@ZOS_Hadeostry
@ZOS_Icy

Rules are not rules if they aren't enforced equally for everyone. Do we really want to open the door for every person on this forum to promote their religion? Because not taking action on this is opening that door.

I just noticed this signature in the Nvidia elk mount thread myself and it really stood out to me as well. The poster was being helpful, but their signature is a crazy blatant violation of the sticky posted code of conduct.

As you say, if the rules aren't enforced equally for everyone, there are no rules. The code of conduct sticky post can be greatly redacted to be reflective of how the forum is actually being moderated. Just change the forum code of conduct to read:

"The rules are whatever we decide they are at any given time and are subject to change at any time for any reason and will be applied differently for different posters".

This is a real problem folks. Forum moderation has to apply equally to everyone at all times and in all cases.

@ZOS_Kevin
@ZOS_Hadeostry
@ZOS_Icy

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_RichLambert
@ZOS_MattFiror
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Can I change my signature to read "There is only one true god and Mohamed is his prophet"? (serious question, can I?) If one poster is allowed to promote religion, then all posters are allowed to promote their religion as well. Right?

It's been about week now since this issue was pointed out. Why has no action been taken against the poster blatantly violating the code of conduct and using the forum as a platform to promote religion? We know for certain the moderators are aware of this issue and are choosing not to take any action, which makes it clear to the community there really isn't a code of conduct at all outside of we can post anything as long as it's ok with the moderators regardless of what the code of conduct says.

Is there a code of conduct on this forum or not?

“The Lord Jesus Christ saved me from sin and darkness. His love has transformed me so that I am a new creature in Him. May you find Him too, and experience His richness and goodness!” isn't just discussing religion, it's preaching it.

What is going on here when this is allowed and is so blatantly inflammatory to anyone belonging to any religion other than Christianity?

@ZOS_Kevin
@ZOS_Hadeostry
@ZOS_Icy
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_MattFiror
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_Phoenix

With moderation this inconsistent and biased it's undeniable that the moderation system in place needs a massive overhaul.

Hey there, wanted to follow up here. Please make sure to use the report function of the forum when you see potential violations. It is a lot easier to track when reports are put through. We see a lot of what happens on the forums, but between upticks in notifications, other conversations, etc. sometimes we can miss a tag in a post. Reporting issues using the forum reporting function is helpful for us to address things faster.

Of course we started by reporting the post and the offense to the forum moderators using the flag function. I've put in two reports of the original violator myself, the first one about 7 days ago. The second a couple days ago. I know of at least one other poster that also used the flag function to no avail.

[sinp]

Believe me, we absolutely did try the normal channels before taking the issue public and started tagging ZOS reps other than the moderators. No action was taken despite being fully informed of the infraction until today. So thank you for finally addressing this issue and getting it resolved. This is something the forum moderators absolutely should have resolved over a week ago without the need for us to bring it to the attention of ZOS reps publicly via tagging.

This just highlights how inconsistent and unresponsive the forum moderators are, which is the subject of this thread in the first place. This forums moderation needs an overhaul in a major way. This issue is just one of many examples showing why.

Thank you @ZOS_Kevin

Come to think of it, why do we even need signatures?

[Edit for Discussing Disciplinary Action]

Ditto. It’s disappointing to discover that cultural competency isn’t a top priority, especially when multiple persons have expressed the same thing to moderators.