The Great ESO Brain Drain

kargen27

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

No. Newbies need help, they need access to info instead of getting it from some rando. Im running into tanks in 12 man tryin to do hms who say "im a tank healer hybrid".

NO. Healers got a job, tank has a job. They each got gear.

The information is disappearing and end game players, whats left of us, especially on ps/na are just exhausted.

There is some serious irony in the fact that people sit here going"well this never helped me". Ok but how many of the people that TAUGHT you used these resources? Id bet the overwhelming majority.

This. So much.
If you've ever heard from somewhere how a mechanic is working, the source of that somewhere is most likely one of the people that are being dismissed here.

I disagree. It is amazing the number of people you can meet in game that really like tinkering with builds and don't mind sharing. You can also find groups that are committed to discovering how to progress through new content without outside help and just learn as they go. Those groups are a lot of fun. Streamers reach more people for sure but that doesn't mean they are sharing something unknown to others or that they themselves discovered the mechanic or build. I know one streamer used to get his PvP builds from our guilds raid leader.
Again he was able to share the build with more people but what he shared wasn't exclusive.

alpha_synuclein

kargen27 wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

No. Newbies need help, they need access to info instead of getting it from some rando. Im running into tanks in 12 man tryin to do hms who say "im a tank healer hybrid".

NO. Healers got a job, tank has a job. They each got gear.

The information is disappearing and end game players, whats left of us, especially on ps/na are just exhausted.

There is some serious irony in the fact that people sit here going"well this never helped me". Ok but how many of the people that TAUGHT you used these resources? Id bet the overwhelming majority.

This. So much.
If you've ever heard from somewhere how a mechanic is working, the source of that somewhere is most likely one of the people that are being dismissed here.

I disagree. It is amazing the number of people you can meet in game that really like tinkering with builds and don't mind sharing. You can also find groups that are committed to discovering how to progress through new content without outside help and just learn as they go. Those groups are a lot of fun. Streamers reach more people for sure but that doesn't mean they are sharing something unknown to others or that they themselves discovered the mechanic or build. I know one streamer used to get his PvP builds from our guilds raid leader.
Again he was able to share the build with more people but what he shared wasn't exclusive.

Most of the people that stream or do youtube stuff about ESO are exactly those players that you describing that went a one step further and put their tinkerings out in public. Besides some random promotional videos ESO doesn't get a lot of attention from "gaming media". Which might be a good thing actually. All those that do ESO stuff seem to start out as passionate players.

Also, I'm not denying that there is a lot of people around that like to figure out things on their own. But, as you pointed out, their reach is very limited. And, personally, when I look closer to where my knowledge comes from, I usually can backtrack it to a source outside of the game itself (whether it would be yt, stream, Discord or community website). Either I got it from there or the person I learned from did. Depending on ingame sources makes you dependent on luck to meet the right people.

StarOfElyon

Soarora wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I imagine this will be an unpopular opinion, but...

Maybe losing creators of "high-end" builds might not be such a bad thing? Maybe there's too much copying of other players' builds without understanding the whys and whynots? If someone understands the whys and whynots, shouldn't they be able to come up with their own "high-end" builds?

Not everyone wants to theorycraft and not everyone's good at it. Theorycrafting takes a lot of time, knowledge, and math. If you're starting from nothing and going in completely blind then you're going to end up with a whole lot of builds that do 60k or less dps as a damage dealer, or do not effectively buff/debuff as a support.

In order to be most effective you need to understand the build, yes. Personally, I found that making my own builds helped with my effectiveness a lot. But I still use a lot of information from other people to build.

I have wasted untold hours and amounts of gold trying "make things work" and I simply refuse to just copy the meta, but I understand that most people don't want to suffer as I do trying to make inferior sets viable.

merevie

PvP players get their group builds from the vision of the group leader and the math of the person who can math. They don't get them from websites - ever. They also get them from noticing flaws in updates (frequent) and testing them with math, then gloriously slaughtering everyone until the next day the enemy has them. These are min/max builds and not recommended to try outside the intended group. Indeed, they often have fatal flaws in the group too :P

PvP players get their solo builds from their own playstyle preference, and then adapt to their mate's builds and often throw in a dose of whatever someone just used to murder them. Again, no websites. Most people will share their mass murder technique if asked in PM -but they'll totally leave crucial details out in any build video. You can catch em out by watching them on Twitch and enquiring why a specific skill has been switched or regen is suddenly higher or they have the health regen of a demi god.

EU has the superior Twitch build people -they math while streaming -so NA watch them. E.g. Decimus. The entire EP faction appear to get their builds from the Tank PvE YouTube channel. Apart from Okuy, who has some nasty builds but they require actual skill to execute.

New PvP players tended to go to a website which is no longer there, so now thankfully, they ask actual players and no longer mass VD everyone on their faction.

PvE? Skinny

If you can't math, don't rely on calculators -ask for help. There are so many variables that do not work as intended. Generally for pvp, watch the person take on several people at once. If they need a rock/tower/ice warden friend... the build is not for someone who cannot build themself yet. If they can casually destroy person after person then give it a go.

alpha_synuclein

merevie wrote: »

PvP players get their group builds from the vision of the group leader and the math of the person who can math. They don't get them from websites - ever. They also get them from noticing flaws in updates (frequent) and testing them with math, then gloriously slaughtering everyone until the next day the enemy has them. These are min/max builds and not recommended to try outside the intended group. Indeed, they often have fatal flaws in the group too :P

PvP players get their solo builds from their own playstyle preference, and then adapt to their mate's builds and often throw in a dose of whatever someone just used to murder them. Again, no websites. Most people will share their mass murder technique if asked in PM -but they'll totally leave crucial details out in any build video. You can catch em out by watching them on Twitch and enquiring why a specific skill has been switched or regen is suddenly higher or they have the health regen of a demi god.

EU has the superior Twitch build people -they math while streaming -so NA watch them. E.g. Decimus. The entire EP faction appear to get their builds from the Tank PvE YouTube channel. Apart from Okuy, who has some nasty builds but they require actual skill to execute.

New PvP players tended to go to a website which is no longer there, so now thankfully, they ask actual players and no longer mass VD everyone on their faction.

PvE? Skinny

If you can't math, don't rely on calculators -ask for help. There are so many variables that do not work as intended. Generally for pvp, watch the person take on several people at once. If they need a rock/tower/ice warden friend... the build is not for someone who cannot build themself yet. If they can casually destroy person after person then give it a go.

That's an interesting take, but it's a bit like comparing apples and oranges. In PVP each fight is basically a competition between players or groups. In PVE the only competitive angle is scorepushing, and when you look at what those teams do, you'll see some similarities. You won't see their stuff on websites, you won't ser their logs in public. The info will travel between players (if at all), just as you described.

But most PVErs don't compete with each other. Bosses we fight don't change their builds after every encounter. Using the same build in multiple progs is more common than not. Metas don't change that much. And having some info out how to do builds or optimize a group to the level you need is just convenient. Word of mouth sharing is very limited. And while it makes sense to be secretive in a competitive environment, it's pointless when the competition factor is not there.