Return the Nightblade's cloak to its original state, because update 44 is ***

SundarahFr3akinrican

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

I am a nightblade, have only ever played nightblade. I pvp with stam nightblade and i am above average i would say at pvp. This new version of cloak is so much better. I do not want it to go back.

Whats your prefered playstyle as pvp stamblade?

I play a bow/bow nb

Chilly-McFreeze

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

I am a nightblade, have only ever played nightblade. I pvp with stam nightblade and i am above average i would say at pvp. This new version of cloak is so much better. I do not want it to go back.

Whats your prefered playstyle as pvp stamblade?

I play a bow/bow nb

I thought as much. Do you the latest cloak change has negative impact on melee blades?

SundarahFr3akinrican

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

Monte_Cristo wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

ikillforskooma wrote: »

Who even plays pve on the nightblade when there is an arcanist?

Everyone who isn't in endgame, plus healers.

Cloak + wild hunt ring means I can run past the mobs and get to the next quest objective easier.
I wouldn't mind this change if it didn't disable magic recovery while active.

It disables Magicka Recovery, not Restore Magicka. Work with that

yeah you can spam your siphoning attacks to perma invis

SundarahFr3akinrican

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

I am a nightblade, have only ever played nightblade. I pvp with stam nightblade and i am above average i would say at pvp. This new version of cloak is so much better. I do not want it to go back.

Whats your prefered playstyle as pvp stamblade?

I play a bow/bow nb

I thought as much. Do you the latest cloak change has negative impact on melee blades?

I can idealize how it would affect it but havent been through it myself. I often end up in melee range myself and have come out with a lot of success. It just feels good on my end. Just having to press it once until you cast something else. Not worrying about counting 3 seconds to recast. Removing a global cooldown from your kit is so OP imo. Also, if you are continually getting knocked out of cloak, its cheaper to spam till you get a cloak that sticks. Also with siphoning attacks, you can perma cloak if you spam it. I can also perma cloak if I don't move at all which is so OP.

But yes, I dont know how it affects pure melee builds. Whats it been like for yall melee stam blades?

SpiritofESO

Not entirely sure about this change to Cloak, although overall I see no reason to change the functioning of Cloak since it's been around for 10 years. The change seems an attempt to fix (balance) something that was never broken in the first place.

I've been playing ESO for just over five years now. My main has always been my Bosmer Stamblade (all Stamina Racial skills) and for four years I only played stamina. And, with seven pieces of Medium Armor on, stealth was never a problem and damage was high. Just over a year ago I started playing a Magblade and with the Magicka Nightblade skills and Siphoning passive skills to Magicka, it was great and I could run a perma-Cloak, which was fun.

But now that I have 10 various builds in my Armory, and with everything from medium armor stamina builds to heavy armor stamina builds or Magicka light armor builds my Bosmer can basically do anything, including being a great tank due to their stamina-based racial passives. All my skill lines are maxed, including all weapons along with destruction staff and restoration staff, and all armor types and all the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood skill lines as well.

I have the Adventurer Across a Decade achievement, Cadwell's Silver and Gold, and in PvP I became Star-Made Knight and Empress, AND this is what I know... to excel in this game, in any role-playing game, you cannot be a one-trick pony like an Arcanist doing Trials, for example, or the alt-crazy guy who says I have 18 characters!

You need to do everything you can, especially on your main character, even including maximizing all the crafting skills, the antiquity skills, and so on, doing PVE and PVP, so that when a change to your favorite class, such as Nightblade, comes down the pike, you still have options and choices.

So... Keep Calm and Carry On... Don't Panic... and as my signature says, Adapt or Die.

You'll be fine.

Morgaledh

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

Monte_Cristo wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

ikillforskooma wrote: »

Who even plays pve on the nightblade when there is an arcanist?

Everyone who isn't in endgame, plus healers.

Cloak + wild hunt ring means I can run past the mobs and get to the next quest objective easier.
I wouldn't mind this change if it didn't disable magic recovery while active.

It disables Magicka Recovery, not Restore Magicka. Work with that

yeah you can spam your siphoning attacks to perma invis

You can use Siphon, but my sustain and recovery is pretty epic, I've found I can perma-stealth everywhere. I'm serious, it's almost not fun. It's like vampire, but not being a vampire, and with no downside. My bar stays full if I just stop every now and again to recharge, slightly.

Desiato

As someone who once 'mained' pvp nb, I'm deeply saddened by the change.

Honestly, I think it's almost cruel to make a change like this to such an iconic ability cherished by so many with a *REALLY* good reason.

Unfortunately, the "good reasons" seem to be to make things like heists and crafting surveys easier.

Muizer

ikillforskooma wrote: »

PVE players were simply too lazy to press the button every three seconds to do their dirty deeds They whined so much on the forum that the ability was changed

Really? Must have missed that. I honestly cannot recall anyone ever asking for this in the 10 years I've played this game.

danko355

As a PvP nb enjoyer, I haven’t even noticed any changes tbh, because I usually don’t stay in cloak for longer than 2-3 seconds. In general, before the update I used to cast the cloak once, and it was already enough to mitigate some damage and reposition myself. I think, if you rely too much on cloak, that’s like riding a bicycle with 4 wheels: good to start learning the class, but completely obsolete if you already know what you’re doing.

Desiato

danko355 wrote: »

As a PvP nb enjoyer, I haven’t even noticed any changes tbh, because I usually don’t stay in cloak for longer than 2-3 seconds. In general, before the update I used to cast the cloak once, and it was already enough to mitigate some damage and reposition myself. I think, if you rely too much on cloak, that’s like riding a bicycle with 4 wheels: good to start learning the class, but completely obsolete if you already know what you’re doing.

You haven't noticed that it has to be actively disabled at times? That makes it extremely clunky to use in many cases.

It's players who "rely" on cloak by using for long durations that benefit from the change, both in PVE and PVP.

I didn't abuse cloak when I played nightblade in cyro for years. I played the class back when a typical stamblade could only afford to use it extremely sparingly, and I hate this change. Especially when just cloaking once or twice and going into sneak.

danko355

Desiato wrote: »

danko355 wrote: »

As a PvP nb enjoyer, I haven’t even noticed any changes tbh, because I usually don’t stay in cloak for longer than 2-3 seconds. In general, before the update I used to cast the cloak once, and it was already enough to mitigate some damage and reposition myself. I think, if you rely too much on cloak, that’s like riding a bicycle with 4 wheels: good to start learning the class, but completely obsolete if you already know what you’re doing.

You haven't noticed that it has to be actively disabled at times? That makes it extremely clunky to use in many cases.

It's players who "rely" on cloak by using for long durations that benefit from the change, both in PVE and PVP.

I didn't abuse cloak when I played nightblade in cyro for years. I played the class back when a typical stamblade could only afford to use it extremely sparingly, and I hate this change. Especially when just cloaking once or twice and going into sneak.

I don’t disable it most of the times, because if you follow the global cooldowns principles, there’s really no point in wasting 1 GCD just to disable it. Instead I just light attack the enemy (if I can) + use any other attacking/healing skill. I think many players don’t realize that you can light attack weave even in a defending phase

Desiato

danko355 wrote: »

I don’t disable it most of the times, because if you follow the global cooldowns principles, there’s really no point in wasting 1 GCD just to disable it. Instead I just light attack the enemy (if I can) + use any other attacking/healing skill. I think many players don’t realize that you can light attack weave even in a defending phase

That's one use case out of many. Sure, in cases where a player intended to break cloak with another action, then there may be no difference at all. Perhaps this is the only use case that is relevant for you, but that certainly isn't the case for me and many other players.

I'm not 100% certain, but I do not believe that deactivating it manually triggers a gcd from what I can casually recall.

katanagirl1

Muizer wrote: »

ikillforskooma wrote: »

PVE players were simply too lazy to press the button every three seconds to do their dirty deeds They whined so much on the forum that the ability was changed

Really? Must have missed that. I honestly cannot recall anyone ever asking for this in the 10 years I've played this game.

Certainly wasn’t me. Years of playing gets you into a rhythm. I rarely have to hit it more than 2 or 3 times anyway.

I don’t recall any other threads either.

Chilly-McFreeze

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

I am a nightblade, have only ever played nightblade. I pvp with stam nightblade and i am above average i would say at pvp. This new version of cloak is so much better. I do not want it to go back.

Whats your prefered playstyle as pvp stamblade?

I play a bow/bow nb

I thought as much. Do you the latest cloak change has negative impact on melee blades?

I can idealize how it would affect it but havent been through it myself. I often end up in melee range myself and have come out with a lot of success. It just feels good on my end. Just having to press it once until you cast something else. Not worrying about counting 3 seconds to recast. Removing a global cooldown from your kit is so OP imo. Also, if you are continually getting knocked out of cloak, its cheaper to spam till you get a cloak that sticks. Also with siphoning attacks, you can perma cloak if you spam it. I can also perma cloak if I don't move at all which is so OP.

But yes, I dont know how it affects pure melee builds. Whats it been like for yall melee stam blades?

For me it's nowhere near the extremes as some people make it out to be (unplayable or better than ever), but I feel the cut off mag regen really hard as I simply can't stand still and wait in most battles. That it's a toggle I manually have to turn off is an annoyance for me personally and it doesn't feel as smooth as old cloak (cloak -> crouch -> you're fine).

If I had it my way I'd go back to old cloak and adjust the cost model in some way. If the issue was ranged / ganking perma cloakers on the outskirts, then maybe they could have added stacking costs + cost refund for every x enemy within y range. Just an idea off the top of my head.
The least thing they could do is to reenable mag regen. As it is now it strongly encourages sitting in stealth and waiting, ganking playstyle over going into the fray.
It's simply hard to grasp that this toggle was asked for by a lot of people 10 years into the game. If they're hell bent on slapping another buff on it for pve, they could have added the 10% dmg to monsters anyway as it doesn't matter in a standard rotation.

Vulkunne

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

ikillforskooma wrote: »

PVE players were simply too lazy to press the button every three seconds to do their dirty deeds They whined so much on the forum that the ability was changed

Really? Must have missed that. I honestly cannot recall anyone ever asking for this in the 10 years I've played this game.

Certainly wasn’t me. Years of playing gets you into a rhythm. I rarely have to hit it more than 2 or 3 times anyway.

I don’t recall any other threads either.

I *vaguely* recall someone posing an idea to make the cloak a toggle however it wasn't intended to be implemented like this. They just wanted to toggle the cloak on or off with no cost.

To be fair however, my continued testing is revealing that most of the time others still pull me out of cloak fairly quickly, especially the really strong solos that I frequently go up against. So, this change is something that really doesn't serve anyone well as far as I can see. If you have to burn more resources just to use something that's already too expensive then I'd say it has failed as a skill/tool. Think about it, who here would buy a car with gas mileage similar to cloak? Be bankrupt in a week or two tops.

I've never defined the ability to escape as being exclusive to breaking los by itself, distance is also part of it and I've found that frequently gaining distance on the agitators is more effective than just going invisi and trying to 'fool them'. Still stand by what I said about Stam Blades and Casual having a harder time now. It's one thing to temper a skill's power but it's another to change the experience of the game itself, which is what this does and especially so by stopping all mag regen while in use.

LadyLethalla

I want to be able to do my single IC daily for the Merit again, sneak past enemies in PVE and do DB / TG dailies without my magicka draining away like I'm running. I stink at PVP so never use either NB for that anyway.

But... my two NBs are now relegated to just running Writs because of this change.

Smh.

frethopper

I think that however it's done, we have to bring some clarity to ZOS on the Nightblade issue...

THE REALITY OF THE CLOAK CHANGE IS REALLY SHOCKINGLY BAD!!!!

And really, there isn't actually a major issue in the idea of nerfing it. Although I'd point out:

1. The change was billed as a tactical adjustment not a nerf
2. Personally, I could never see the point in the change at all

But as others who play NB as main have pointed out, the nerf is so draconian, that it really equals the end of the class in PVP. My playstyle, in line with the basic premise of the class, was cloak, pick target, burst, leave. That's now in total ruins, it just doesn't work any more. So I've spent the last few days trying to figure out what might work instead. I've emptied my bank account in the process. And my conclusion is that there's nothing left for a NB build to do, that couldn't be done better with a different class.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE ZOS, rethink this change.

frethopper

Xarc wrote: »

Not sure if PVE players use cloak more than PVP players, but oh well.

On the other hand, regarding the cost/stop of magicka regen, haven't you encountered a slight bug which considerably slows down, at certain times, the magic regen even once you are in sight and you are not in combat?

I play my Nightblade main in both PVE and PVP, have for a couple of years at least. I don't use cloak in PVE because there's always something much better to put in the slot. Update 44 doesn't change that, but in PVP it's beyond ruinous.

Please rethink this change ZOS.

frethopper

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

I am a nightblade, have only ever played nightblade. I pvp with stam nightblade and i am above average i would say at pvp. This new version of cloak is so much better. I do not want it to go back.

Whats your prefered playstyle as pvp stamblade?

Nobody would seriously claim the new cloak is better. It's a total disaster, that's the reality.

frethopper

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

I am a nightblade, have only ever played nightblade. I pvp with stam nightblade and i am above average i would say at pvp. This new version of cloak is so much better. I do not want it to go back.

Whats your prefered playstyle as pvp stamblade?

I play a bow/bow nb

I thought as much. Do you the latest cloak change has negative impact on melee blades?

I can idealize how it would affect it but havent been through it myself. I often end up in melee range myself and have come out with a lot of success. It just feels good on my end. Just having to press it once until you cast something else. Not worrying about counting 3 seconds to recast. Removing a global cooldown from your kit is so OP imo. Also, if you are continually getting knocked out of cloak, its cheaper to spam till you get a cloak that sticks. Also with siphoning attacks, you can perma cloak if you spam it. I can also perma cloak if I don't move at all which is so OP.

But yes, I dont know how it affects pure melee builds. Whats it been like for yall melee stam blades?

A total disaster!!! Are bow builds all that's left then? It wasn't what I personally wanted to do.

moderatelyfatman

Desiato wrote: »

As someone who once 'mained' pvp nb, I'm deeply saddened by the change.
Honestly, I think it's almost cruel to make a change like this to such an iconic ability cherished by so many with a *REALLY* good reason.
Unfortunately, the "good reasons" seem to be to make things like heists and crafting surveys easier.

As someone who strongly dislikes pvp nightblades and wanted Cloak to be nerfed.... the changes are awful.
I would have liked to have seen some sort of increase in cost (like Streak) to prevent low skill players continually spamming the skill in PvP but the current changes is just not it.

Sedare38

Rather than start an entire new post on this, I'll just tack my 2c here.

I am the guild leader of a mostly NB guild. So far 5 people have canceled their subscriptions mostly due to this change but also due to a complete lack of balance with regards to the following:

• Ball groups and the severe lack of counter play due to
• Shield stacking
• Echoing Vigor and Radiating/Rapid Regen stacking
• Any other heal over time stacks introduced since Scribing or from other classes
• The complete lack of balance with regards to overly tanky builds still being able to do massive amounts of damage 1 button heals or shield + heals which negate any burst dmg, complete lack of rss management in that they never run out, etc. The tank meta for the last X months (or is it years now) has been ridiculous and you've manage to make it worse ZOS.
• 0 give and take except for 1 play style the ganker -- this is not an invitation to hear people bemoan gankers but this is the only playstyle that dumps into damage to sacrifice armor/resists and you all know it.

Anyway back to Shadowy Disguise aka Cloak.

The toggle sucks and this is why:

• Half the time I don't know if it's on or off b/c the only real indicator is the yellow highlight on my ability, which if I'm on back bar, I won't see. Oh but you turn red . . . like Vampire stealth, or half the other NB ability buffs.
• In laggy situations it does not work -- either toggling on or off
• It actually limits mobility -- if you're a stam leaning NB you'll have only a few seconds to get out of dodge. If you're magicka you'll have more. Forcing me to stand still on a class built for fast in and out attacks to sustain the invis longer is stupid as hell.
• Invisibility ends immediately upon toggle off -- give us a 3-4 seconds lingering invis b/c nearly 90% of the time in PVP at least, I cannot crouch hide and so when I run out of magicka or need to rest to recoup by turning it off, guess what I'm not hidden. WHY? Because ZOS, you've been unable to fix the combat bug for YEARS. Upon disengaging for 5 seconds, I should be out of combat. This rarely happens. I should not be stuck in combat b/c of group mates b/c my former target is still attacking/being attacked. It should only tie to me. Fix this and you can mark the toggle negative for it off. The immediate end also messes with mobility/escaping
• Cant' weave through PVE situations as effectively: Can't get through a delve or Imp city without attacking/being attacked by mobs without stopping for a "breather."
• It doesn't simplify things at all and I'd argue it make sit more complex b/c players now have to really adjust and think about their magicka more.
• For the people crying oh just spam siphon attacks and have unlimited blah blah, this pigeon holes people into playing 2h backbar with Rally and juggling 2 abilities to hopefully get a way. Remember NBs are the only class with heals that hurt . . .
• Screws over 1-bar builds. If you need this explained you're not paying attention enough.
  

There's probably more points about how stupid this change is and how much I dislike it, but ultimately no Nightblade user called for it.

Solutions b/c why only bring problems to the table:

• Reduce the movement penalty: While moving, reduce magicka recovery by 50% of 0.
• Reduce the tick cost by 33-50%
• Have the cloak linger for X seconds and scale it off one of the shadow passives (introduce a new section to the passives if you have to, don't care)
• Put it back to the way it effing was.

What isn't a solution is telling people to dump more into recovery, cost reduction, or use Darloc Brae. Those things reduce damage entirely too much to make a heavy damage build, ganker or more sustained fighting style, viable in today's pvp.

TBH, I'm not having fun logging in to the game b/c of this change but really in conjunction with the absolute lack of balance, and my sentiment is shared by well over 20 of my guildmates. I have played since open beta. I've only taken a break once for a few months b/c ZOS broke the patcher for me at Murkmire and blamed my ISP who in turn blamed ZOS. It got randomly fixed and I've been uninterrupted since. However, this is the straw -- 1 straw among many, but this is the final one. Thanks for all the fish.

Undo cloak change like you did the silence with Incap. It's unnecessary, unwarranted, etc. #shameonyou

sunsrest

for PVE questing the change has been good, turn it on once when you need to run past some enemies you don't want to fight, turn it off when you are done, such is life when skills share between PVE and PVP I guess

ZOS_GregoryV

Greetings all,

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