Major Updates Are Increasingly Out of Touch with Player Feedback

pklemming

Creative assembly had a similar route of ignoring players and adopting a 'We will do what we want' attitude and it cost them a lot of money and exposure as players and content creators left them in droves.

They made the decision to change how they worked, started interacting more with players, listening to feedback and adopting sensible changes based on the feedback provided.

Each patch now has an explanation of changes and will often address issues raised and explain that they have made the change based on this feedback and why.

Players feel wanted and as a result both the exposure and player numbers have increased. I feel there is a level of confidence in the development of the product, that I just don't see here.

They still have a lot of changes that people would like, but similar to ZoS, their team is a lot smaller now, and fixing some of the issues will take time. That is understandable, though. We know they are actually, 'Working on it', rather than just hearing the words.

I have mentioned Ludeon in the past. Ludeon have been involved in the Rimworld community from day 1 and continue to be involved on a daily basis through the dev discord. Like any game, there are things people don't like, and that is because everyone is different, but we know they listen to us and the feedback we give them is important. I have always been impressed by the way they handle stuff compared to most software development companies out there.

Here? I have no confidence, at all. We have examples where the community vehemently disliked and did not want a change, and that change was pushed through anyway. It just feels like we are in the way and any feedback provided by them is a very grudging acceptance that they need people to give them money, not that they are at all interested in the people that actually play the game, or what they think.

ADarklore

Since I am now playing D4, haven't touched ESO in months, at least over there they try to listen to player feedback... unlike ESO where they just ignore everything players mention. It's like they are saying, "WE know how WE want you to play OUR game"... and it's been this way for years now, but getting increasingly worse. It's like they are trying to find things to change, for the sake of change, because they think change will keep players... and instead, it completely alienates the majority of players. Then, like so many other older failing MMOs right now, the more the population shrinks, the more they add to their online stores. OR, they make significant changes to try and 'shake things up' to bring players back- which in most cases doesn't work either. I was excited about the new companions and was planning to return, but after learning more about them, I'm no longer excited. Once again they completely ignored player feedback about what WE wanted in new companions, and went a completely different direction. So, much like so many other players lately, I too, will go in another direction.

Elsonso

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Ideas take a long time to implement. So even if they go with your idea, unless it's really simple, it's probably going to take some months or a year or whatever. Feedback that's passed along does get used sometimes though.

Also, the player economy stagnates and people kind of check out if there isn't anything new to grind.

The problem isn't really new sets or the like. The problem is moreso that there's a lack of content now. They've drastically reduced new content and it's making things feel a bit stale imo.

But even ideas that have been around and suggested enough times are ignored as well. Sure development takes time, but there is a vast backlog of good ideas ignored for years. I don't think it takes time is a good excuse.

It is more than just time. It is also desire and resources to do it. I would imagine they have a massive backlog, and my guess is that it is not getting any smaller. I would also imagine that a huge number of requests come in that they are not even interested in, for one reason or another.

pklemming wrote: »

Creative assembly had a similar route of ignoring players and adopting a 'We will do what we want' attitude and it cost them a lot of money and exposure as players and content creators left them in droves.

They made the decision to change how they worked, started interacting more with players, listening to feedback and adopting sensible changes based on the feedback provided.

Each patch now has an explanation of changes and will often address issues raised and explain that they have made the change based on this feedback and why.

Players feel wanted and as a result both the exposure and player numbers have increased. I feel there is a level of confidence in the development of the product, that I just don't see here.

I think there are a ton of people ZOS could learn from when it comes to interacting with the community. It took them forever to hire someone like Kevin, but the problem runs much deeper. It is there that it has to be fixed. Whatever is buried inside ZOS does not want to budge.

manukartofanu

Elsonso wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

RomanRex wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They've drastically reduced new content and it's making things feel a bit stale imo.

Content, and the of quality of content, has definitely fallen off.

Very negligible QoL improvements combined with new content that has very low appeal to many players.

IMHO this includes ToT, Housing Tours, Infinite Archive and others. Scribing had great potential, but was very lackluster and disappointing for many reasons.

The only way to know for sure which content is unpopular with players is to use statistics from in-game play. ZOS may get more nuanced feedback from written responses via /bug or /feedback in-game, or posts on the ESO reddit, the ESO forums, or other ESO social media outlets, but player actions speak louder than words.

Endeavors (and soon Golden Pursuits) give players a choice between certain predetermined activities, and ZOS uses statistics from that to determine which activities are the most popular with (and which ones are the least preferable for) players.

They can use that information to plan upcoming feature, or they can use it for social engineering. If enough people are not doing a certain task in the game, and they want players doing those things, they can arrange for endeavors, or rewards from other activities, such that players are encouraged to do those things.

So, instead of fixing the bad design, we'll just pile on more rewards for poorly designed activities. The path is clear, and it leads to the game turning from something engaging into a list of hated chores for the players. What happens next is pretty obvious, I think.

KromedeTheCorrupt

manukartofanu wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

RomanRex wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They've drastically reduced new content and it's making things feel a bit stale imo.

Content, and the of quality of content, has definitely fallen off.

Very negligible QoL improvements combined with new content that has very low appeal to many players.

IMHO this includes ToT, Housing Tours, Infinite Archive and others. Scribing had great potential, but was very lackluster and disappointing for many reasons.

The only way to know for sure which content is unpopular with players is to use statistics from in-game play. ZOS may get more nuanced feedback from written responses via /bug or /feedback in-game, or posts on the ESO reddit, the ESO forums, or other ESO social media outlets, but player actions speak louder than words.

Endeavors (and soon Golden Pursuits) give players a choice between certain predetermined activities, and ZOS uses statistics from that to determine which activities are the most popular with (and which ones are the least preferable for) players.

They can use that information to plan upcoming feature, or they can use it for social engineering. If enough people are not doing a certain task in the game, and they want players doing those things, they can arrange for endeavors, or rewards from other activities, such that players are encouraged to do those things.

So, instead of fixing the bad design, we'll just pile on more rewards for poorly designed activities. The path is clear, and it leads to the game turning from something engaging into a list of hated chores for the players. What happens next is pretty obvious, I think.

That’s the scary part about games they will also have a player base that protects everything they do. Instead of fixing bad game design their idea is to force players to do X activity to earn X item or currency. That’s why I tend to stay away and ignore people on EVERY game forum who makes it clear they will stand with the developers on every aspect of game design. We got a good bit of them in here we even got 1 whenever anybody says something about change they make sure to add their 2 cents in about why and how it’s a bad idea like immediately. What’s the name ta she hmmm I forget. 😂

DigiAngel

Cooperharley wrote: »

I think this is a fair assessment for any company or product across the board. But the issue is when they enact things like ToT w/ high isle or the recent home tours addition or even balance changes that weren't even close to suggestions/discussions by the player base. THAT'S the issue.

I've always thought that ZoS has a roadmap of where the game is going.....and that roadmap has minimal to zero impact by users....which is why you'll get things released out of the blue (ToT) that haven't been asked for (at least not in the forums).

Just keep in mind that all decisions are based on money....how ZoS can save/make more money...the Housing one is obvious...keep people to want to buy more things for housing.

Northwold

Urvoth wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

I think the most important thing to point out here is: Stalking Blastbones.

How in the world do they remove a core ability for a class, see the tremendous negative feedback in all its forms, and then still go through with it?

Or how about: Templar Puncturing Strikes changes.

Not a single complaint about the animation or prop in what, 6+ years? But then they change this skill to have a lower quality animation along with an ugly prop. All ESO-related social media explodes with negative feedback. They keep the change in, and on top of this, do not even update the multiple other spear-related abilities to follow suit in using the new spear prop!

Not sure what else needs to be said - feedback is not valued. They only care if it’s something they personally feel like changing.

They clearly just don’t care about feedback. Even though the forums are a small percentage of the player base, it’s still representative of the larger community and widely agreed on points are going to be valid for most players.

The forum really does not feel representative on many, many topics. Just go to the ESO reddit, for instance, and you'd see almost opposite opinions on many hot button issues, often with interactions ten times as numerous as even the biggest threads here.

ZOS very clearly do pay attention to what gets said on the forums and there are numerous examples of that (look, for instance, at the change to how new players now enter the game). But the forums *are not* the player base, and they would be mad to listen to the forums alone.

Elsonso

Northwold wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

I think the most important thing to point out here is: Stalking Blastbones.

How in the world do they remove a core ability for a class, see the tremendous negative feedback in all its forms, and then still go through with it?

Or how about: Templar Puncturing Strikes changes.

Not a single complaint about the animation or prop in what, 6+ years? But then they change this skill to have a lower quality animation along with an ugly prop. All ESO-related social media explodes with negative feedback. They keep the change in, and on top of this, do not even update the multiple other spear-related abilities to follow suit in using the new spear prop!

Not sure what else needs to be said - feedback is not valued. They only care if it’s something they personally feel like changing.

They clearly just don’t care about feedback. Even though the forums are a small percentage of the player base, it’s still representative of the larger community and widely agreed on points are going to be valid for most players.

The forum really does not feel representative on many, many topics. Just go to the ESO reddit, for instance, and you'd see almost opposite opinions on many hot button issues, often with interactions ten times as numerous as even the biggest threads here.

ZOS very clearly do pay attention to what gets said on the forums and there are numerous examples of that (look, for instance, at the change to how new players now enter the game). But the forums *are not* the player base, and they would be mad to listen to the forums alone.

Reddit is even more of an echo chamber than the official forums. Group think there is enforced by the down vote system. I would not trust the opinion of Reddit to be anything other than a curated opinion from that echo chamber. My feeling is that the official forums should be more diverse in thinking, although, still a subset of players.

OtarTheMad

Like ZOS said it takes time for them to implement some feedback since they plan so far out.

Some changes you might be like “HUH?” could have come from some players feedback in game or on these forums or reddit whatever from a while ago and just got implemented.

I don’t think any ideas are ignored. I think ZOS reads all they can but if an idea doesn’t fit their vision then they won’t do it.

preevious

I'll play devil's advocate and do a frame challenge :

They DO care about feedback.
Most feedback, however, is just clutter.
For one genuinely good feedback, there's 10 that are just some people defending their stuff against perceived (as in : not real) problems.

I play since launch, with some long pauses in-between session, and you can believe me when I say my builds was nerfed countless times (and actually buffed countless others).
However, I do consider that loosing a few percent DPS on a parse in not and never will be an issue.
A build is never made useless with an update .. sure, you get a little less efficient, but if your numbers were good, odds are in favour of them still being good after any update.
If you could do any content, you'll probably still be able to.

Updates and rebalance are a necessity, in a mmorpg. If there weren't any, everyone would have had the same build, and would have left long ago out of sheer boredom.
The fact that there are such spirited debates here is proof that everything is working as it should.

The game is fine, and the devs aren't evil. They listen, but are free to choose what deserve to be listened to.
Because, yeah, they actually know better than us payers.

Aggrovious

preevious wrote: »

I'll play devil's advocate and do a frame challenge :

They DO care about feedback.
Most feedback, however, is just clutter.
For one genuinely good feedback, there's 10 that are just some people defending their stuff against perceived (as in : not real) problems.

I play since launch, with some long pauses in-between session, and you can believe me when I say my builds was nerfed countless times (and actually buffed countless others).
However, I do consider that loosing a few percent DPS on a parse in not and never will be an issue.
A build is never made useless with an update .. sure, you get a little less efficient, but if your numbers were good, odds are in favour of them still being good after any update.
If you could do any content, you'll probably still be able to.

Updates and rebalance are a necessity, in a mmorpg. If there weren't any, everyone would have had the same build, and would have left long ago out of sheer boredom.
The fact that there are such spirited debates here is proof that everything is working as it should.

The game is fine, and the devs aren't evil. They listen, but are free to choose what deserve to be listened to.
Because, yeah, they actually know better than us payers.

Say that with a straight face when you talk about the nerfing of the set Azureblight. I have a problem with "balancing" when it makes things useless. That is what I and I am sure others have a problem with.

OtarTheMad

Aggrovious wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

I'll play devil's advocate and do a frame challenge :

They DO care about feedback.
Most feedback, however, is just clutter.
For one genuinely good feedback, there's 10 that are just some people defending their stuff against perceived (as in : not real) problems.

I play since launch, with some long pauses in-between session, and you can believe me when I say my builds was nerfed countless times (and actually buffed countless others).
However, I do consider that loosing a few percent DPS on a parse in not and never will be an issue.
A build is never made useless with an update .. sure, you get a little less efficient, but if your numbers were good, odds are in favour of them still being good after any update.
If you could do any content, you'll probably still be able to.

Updates and rebalance are a necessity, in a mmorpg. If there weren't any, everyone would have had the same build, and would have left long ago out of sheer boredom.
The fact that there are such spirited debates here is proof that everything is working as it should.

The game is fine, and the devs aren't evil. They listen, but are free to choose what deserve to be listened to.
Because, yeah, they actually know better than us payers.

Say that with a straight face when you talk about the nerfing of the set Azureblight. I have a problem with "balancing" when it makes things useless. That is what I and I am sure others have a problem with.

To be fair, if you use the search feature on these forums and look up Azureblight you’ll see a good amount of “pls nerf” threads.

Now ZOS probably went overboard with the nerf but that’s what ZOS does. That’s why I am usually against nerfs because the devs usually fly in and are like “Oh, you want something slightly nerfed so it’s still powerful but not insanely OP? Sure we got you *empties 9 machine guns into the item* That good?” LoL.

Nothing should be nerfed over 50% at once.

RomanRex

preevious wrote: »

Because, yeah, they actually know better than us payers.

Very appropriate typo. *Payers*

If you don’t listen to the payers, they will eventually find someone else to pay who listens better, or at least someone who has better community engagement and acknowledges player discontent in a more constructive way.

preevious

Of course it was a typo.
My keyboard is getting old.

Anyway, I'm sorry for your discontentment, but there is simply no way to please the playerbase. It's too fickle. It's impossible, since any nerf will have people asking for them, because us players only know what we do.
Evenmore so when a players consider the devs do not listen to the whole community when they don't implement their personal idea.

It sucks when you're the one nerfed, but you sure as hell want the OP stuff the other is using to be nerfed. I've seen this a lot of time, on the forums. Endless complains over very minor loss of DPS.

It's true, though, that if your discontentment exceed your enjoyment of the game, it's a sign that you should probably leave for greener pastures, even if it is to come back after a pause. I've done this a lot.

xylena_lazarow

Yall should read this from the lead dev for Magic: the Gathering, a game much bigger than ESO.

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/making-magic/twenty-years-twenty-lessons-part-3-2016-06-13

loosej

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Yall should read this from the lead dev for Magic: the Gathering, a game much bigger than ESO.

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/making-magic/twenty-years-twenty-lessons-part-3-2016-06-13

The one sentence that jumps out for me is: They don't know the restrictions you're under or what needs you have to fulfill.

Sounds to me like most of that could be solved by telling players the restrictions they're under and the needs they have to fulfill. If I were to go see my doctor and propose a solution that doesn't work, he'd explain to me why that's the case. It's called communicating. If he didn't and just said "I know best", I wouldn't know if that's really the case or if he's just arrogant and annoyed. And I'd definitely switch to a doctor who is willing to treat me like an intelligent human.

alpha_synuclein

preevious wrote: »

Updates and rebalance are a necessity, in a mmorpg. If there weren't any, everyone would have had the same build

Like stam arcanists with fatecarver and dual wield on frontbar?

preevious wrote: »

The game is fine, and the devs aren't evil.
Because, yeah, they actually know better than us payers.

Noone says anything about evil. And yes, they know better what kind of changes fit their vision the best. But the thing is, we rarely get to know what that vision is. And how it (obviously) changes over time. So we speculate. And it's hard to speculate if the stated intent behing a change are not consistent with what the change is actually causing. Hence the feeling of not being listened and assumptions of shady intent.

preevious wrote: »

It sucks when you're the one nerfed, but you sure as hell want the OP stuff the other is using to be nerfed. I've seen this a lot of time, on the forums. Endless complains over very minor loss of DPS.

As for the Azure stuff... Before it became so prevalent in PVE Azure was only good to use on one team member at the time. Then, out of the blue (and not as a response to players requests) it was adjusted to enable it's use by multiple players simultaneously. That change teleported Azure to the position of the strongest set to use on a currently most popular parse class in PVE. This power is purely ZOS doing. And the popularity was rather predictable, especially if you have an actual data about player activity. Now they're believing that this was a mistake, but since admitting a mistake seems like a cardinal sin, they are going to "correct" it. And we will eat the nerf...

This nerf might not change that much, but this is exactly the kind of approach that wears people off over time.

pklemming

The actual change to azureblight was to restrict the damage, but making it a single stack on the mob, to which the dds would then contribute

We used to build separate stacks, and AB, imo, was much more powerful then.

The nerf, for me, is a sticking point. A point where I have been pushed too far, by changes that are just stupid and unwanted. As mentioned, the only change was to flag it so it did not work in PVP.

This is a cumulation of bad decisions that reached a point where I just got too tired. These are points where the community was very strongly against a change and the change went ahead regardless.

I doubt they can change anything at this point, so I am waiting until this hits live now and they commit to yet another bad change.

tomofhyrule

loosej wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Yall should read this from the lead dev for Magic: the Gathering, a game much bigger than ESO.

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/making-magic/twenty-years-twenty-lessons-part-3-2016-06-13

The one sentence that jumps out for me is: They don't know the restrictions you're under or what needs you have to fulfill.

Sounds to me like most of that could be solved by telling players the restrictions they're under and the needs they have to fulfill. If I were to go see my doctor and propose a solution that doesn't work, he'd explain to me why that's the case. It's called communicating. If he didn't and just said "I know best", I wouldn't know if that's really the case or if he's just arrogant and annoyed. And I'd definitely switch to a doctor who is willing to treat me like an intelligent human.

Only problem there is that there are cases where they have done exactly that, and then the community gets mad that that exact thing can't happen.

We've seen that as recently as the last update. ZOS has said, several times, that the housing furnishing limits were because they were trying to keep support for older hardware (e.g. old PCs and last-gen consoles), and that they would not be able to raise the limits. And then when people started to speculate what the "housing feature" could have been, increased limits was the #1 thing people expected. Even when people linked the interviews, they said "well, ZOS has lied to us about not doing Alliance change tokens, or about not introducing more classes before Arcanists, so therefore that was a lie as well!"
(despite that managing to do something isn't a lie, but that's a different issue)

So in essence, if ZOS says "hey, we can't do that," the response on the forums is basically never "oh, we'll stop then," it's "you're lying, do it anyway!"

Now I do think that ZOS has made some... questionable decisions lately and think that they should be more willing to listen to community feedback (particularly from the PTS testers, and especially if there's a thread that gets an inordinate number of responses and then it's ignored), but there are quite a few common requests that they have said are not ever happening (or at least not likely to happen), with reasoning, and that's not stopped any of those requests, nor has it stopped people from getting salty that those requests that ZOS has continually said "no" to are still not happening.

Cooperharley

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Yall should read this from the lead dev for Magic: the Gathering, a game much bigger than ESO.

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/making-magic/twenty-years-twenty-lessons-part-3-2016-06-13

Relating to that doctor analogy, sometimes it feels like we’re talking to a doctor that got their degree on wish . Com 🤣

In all reality this is true. They know how to fix problems and they know a lot of times what our grievances are, it’s just a matter of if they want to or not.

No reward structure really in the game while prioritizing monetization. That’s a choice, not a remedy for our problems even though we’ve complained about it forever. Adding stuff to the game that no one has asked for, completing gutting sets rather than improving lesser performing ones, what’s the catch then? This doesn’t line up with that analogy and it’s why people are confused.

Imagine a patient saying “hey I fell and think I broke my ankle” and the doctor says “I know how to fix it! We’re going to just perform surgery on your elbow and remove your ear instead of your ankle.”

That’s what it feels like lol

Aggrovious

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Yall should read this from the lead dev for Magic: the Gathering, a game much bigger than ESO.

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/making-magic/twenty-years-twenty-lessons-part-3-2016-06-13

Ah yes, the same company that has thrown away its story identity for other franchise support. Oh and sol ring is no longer legal in commander. They really are good at solving problems $$$$$

xylena_lazarow

loosej wrote: »

If I were to go see my doctor and propose a solution that doesn't work, he'd explain to me why that's the case.

He'll distill as much as he can for a layperson, but without a formal medical background in the correct specialty, you're missing too much information. Similarly, most of us don't have formal game dev or software dev backgrounds, and none of us know the technical side of the game and what constraints that would impose on design.

kargen27

Stafford197 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

RomanRex wrote: »

Tra_Lalan wrote: »

Sorry but its more like this:

RomanRex wrote: »

Player on Forum: I have this great idea that would really improve the game.
Other Players on Forum: No!! Hell No. Yes. I dont care, but mostly no. Ok but mine is better.
Community Manager: So what are we going to do when eso players are complainging on everything always and they think that they all have the best sollutions to the game, but everyone has a different one?



Community Manager: Welcome to Update XX! We are super excited to introduce X and Y
Players on Forums: Wut? No one asked for or wanted this. I wanted Q, What about F and G? We all need P and R

^^What it feels like to me being on forums and then seeing new updates roll out.^^

it’s only like that if YOU are an annoying person who thinks the game should bend to your will. most players don’t provide feedback thinking like that, including me. we make a genuine suggestions for a game we love.

ESO solicits feedback, players find consensus here about certain game improvements, the community managers acknowledge it and then it gets tossed into the waste bin.

The forum never finds consensus. Honestly, they don't. At best dissenters stop replying because it is not productive to engage.

No you’re completely wrong and disregarding all player feedback.

Stalking Blastbones removal, Puncturing Strikes animation nerf, and U35 balance changes want to say hi, just to name recent examples. There was enormous consensus across all social media and ingame that these were all horrible changes and yet they still went though. ZOS even issued public apologies in the case of U35 changes.

In the game’s history there have been many situations like this, such as with AoE Caps, or Dark Brotherhood animation updates… players do come to consensus on major unpopular changes. Not everything of course, but absolutely on the major stuff.

I like the puncturing strikes new animation. Easier to see when stacked in a trial and fits the skill time better.

RomanRex

Not Listening to Your Player Base Consequences. (My list anyway! 😋)

1. Little to No Positive Coverage from Gaming News Outlets: Recently, any media coverage is largely focused on financial achievements rather than genuine gameplay improvements or community engagement. This lack of positive news further emphasizes the disconnect between the developer and players.
2. Lack of Creator-Driven Content: Content creators (beyond just streamers) are less inclined to make videos, guides, or other content when they aren’t enthusiastic about the game. When creators lose interest, the game loses a powerful source of organic promotion and player engagement.
3. Declining Player Retention and Engagement: Players who feel unheard are more likely to stop playing or drastically reduce their time spent on the game. This can cause active player numbers to drop, impacting both the in-game economy and matchmaking quality, which in turn can further push players away.
4. Damage to Brand Reputation and Future Releases: Frustration builds quickly in communities that feel ignored, leading to a tarnished reputation for both the game and its developers. This can create challenges for future releases, as players may be hesitant to invest in another product from the same company.

These seem to be playing out in slow (and sometimes not-so-slow) motion. I am feeling number 3 a lot lately!

Erickson9610

Elsonso wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

RomanRex wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They've drastically reduced new content and it's making things feel a bit stale imo.

Content, and the of quality of content, has definitely fallen off.

Very negligible QoL improvements combined with new content that has very low appeal to many players.

IMHO this includes ToT, Housing Tours, Infinite Archive and others. Scribing had great potential, but was very lackluster and disappointing for many reasons.

The only way to know for sure which content is unpopular with players is to use statistics from in-game play. ZOS may get more nuanced feedback from written responses via /bug or /feedback in-game, or posts on the ESO reddit, the ESO forums, or other ESO social media outlets, but player actions speak louder than words.

Endeavors (and soon Golden Pursuits) give players a choice between certain predetermined activities, and ZOS uses statistics from that to determine which activities are the most popular with (and which ones are the least preferable for) players.

They can use that information to plan upcoming feature, or they can use it for social engineering. If enough people are not doing a certain task in the game, and they want players doing those things, they can arrange for endeavors, or rewards from other activities, such that players are encouraged to do those things.

If a solo PvE player who dislikes all forms of PvP wants to complete their third Daily Endeavor for the day, but they're given the option between killing 1 enemy player in Cyrodiil, completing 1 Duel, or completing 1 match of Tales of Tribute, their choice can be considered the most preferable of three unpreferable options. Maybe the player doesn't have High Isle, so they either directly ask another player to duel, or go to Cyrodiil and hope to get a killing blow while hiding in a group.

Of course, the order in which they complete Endeavors is also taken into account, so if a player saves PvP-related Endeavors for last, then it's likely that despite doing a PvP Endeavor, they probably don't want to do it.

Whatever the outcome, the statistics of Endeavors directly tell ZOS what activities players prefer to do, or more specifically, which activities they least prefer to do. That is valuable feedback that should be used alongside written feedback from the forums and other places to determine which activities are unpopular and how to make them more appealing.

loosej

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

loosej wrote: »

If I were to go see my doctor and propose a solution that doesn't work, he'd explain to me why that's the case.

He'll distill as much as he can for a layperson, but without a formal medical background in the correct specialty, you're missing too much information. Similarly, most of us don't have formal game dev or software dev backgrounds, and none of us know the technical side of the game and what constraints that would impose on design.

I'd say there's a big difference between missing the formal medical background to make my own diagnosis, and not being able to understand why my own diagnosis is wrong. I personally do have a background in software development, and I can ELI5 just about any subject, no matter how complex. All it takes is more effort on my end.

And yes, there will always be people who still aren't able to understand the reasoning, no matter how simplified. But given the complexity of this game I think it's safe to assume that most people who enjoy it are intelligent enough to understand the basics, unlike in the doctor analogy where anyone can be a patient.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Only problem there is that there are cases where they have done exactly that, and then the community gets mad that that exact thing can't happen.

I get that, and I also know it isn't fun when customers accuse you of lying after you've explained to them why their request can't be done, I've been in that position myself. But I don't see why a vocal subset of players would be a reason to stop explaining why things are done in a certain way, or can't be done at all.

It reminds me a bit of an elementary school teacher I had who would always go "If anyone else interrupts my class you're all punished". It's an unprofessional and immature reaction, but given her pay grade I get it. But I take a different position for companies who are flaunting the 2 billion dollar they made.

Not saying they need to keep on repeating why housing limits can't be increased. But the forums are full of discussions about common complaints that don't get an explanation. And when they do get explained it often feels like development explained to lower management, who then told marketing, who then consulted legal and finally told the community managers what they're allowed to say. Any valid argument that goes through a process like that will come out sounding like a cheap excuse...

Jammy420

RomanRex wrote: »

Player on Forum: I have this great idea that would really improve the game.
Other Players on Forum: That is a great idea! We agree.
Community Manager: Great idea! We are going to pass this along to the appropriate team. Thanks!

***no follow up from the appropriate team or community manager before new update***

Community Manager: Welcome to Update XX! We are super excited to introduce a new currency for you to grind and collect, new RNG drops that will leave you frustrated and a new overpowered set/mythic/feature that is required if you want to be competitive. You’ll be playing for hours and hours in this repetitive content! We will rebalance the new overpowered item once the DLC rolls over into ESO+ and isn’t being sold for cash anymore.”
Players on Forums: Wut? No one asked for or wanted this.

^^What it feels like to me being on forums and then seeing new updates roll out.^^

This game was sold under th guise of " play like you want " but now that is possible in very little content. They have since moved to " play like streamers want, or die "