Major Updates Are Increasingly Out of Touch with Player Feedback
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Tra_Lalan✭✭✭✭✭Sorry but its more like this:Player on Forum: I have this great idea that would really improve the game.
Other Players on Forum: No!! Hell No. Yes. I dont care, but mostly no. Ok but mine is better.
Community Manager: So what are we going to do when eso players are complainging on everything always and they think that they all have the best sollutions to the game, but everyone has a different one?
Community Manager: Welcome to Update XX! We are super excited to introduce X and Y
Players on Forums: Wut? No one asked for or wanted this. I wanted Q, What about F and G? We all need P and R
^^What it feels like to me being on forums and then seeing new updates roll out.^^
3 -
Cooperharley✭✭✭Don't forget that forums feedback are representative of the forums population, that have a vast majority of players same "type": those who like to be in this/those specific forum(s).
In short, the feedback we see from one or the other places, is representative of that specific group of players, globally thinking relatively alike, but it doesn't necessarily reflect the full game population, that has a vast majority of silent casual PvE players.
I suppose that ZOS take into consideration several criteria, like mainly (non exhaustive):
- Databases of information relative to their playerbase.
- Tendencies in other MMORPG that have success.
- Forums.
- Social networks
And they also have financial and technical limitations.
So, all in all, I can imagine that it's quite difficult to make decisions. In the end, it's impossible to make everybody happy. There will always be someone disappointed, no matter what they do.
I think this is a fair assessment for any company or product across the board. But the issue is when they enact things like ToT w/ high isle or the recent home tours addition or even balance changes that weren't even close to suggestions/discussions by the player base. THAT'S the issue.4 -
RomanRex✭✭✭✭✭Sorry but its more like this:Player on Forum: I have this great idea that would really improve the game.
Other Players on Forum: No!! Hell No. Yes. I dont care, but mostly no. Ok but mine is better.
Community Manager: So what are we going to do when eso players are complainging on everything always and they think that they all have the best sollutions to the game, but everyone has a different one?
Community Manager: Welcome to Update XX! We are super excited to introduce X and Y
Players on Forums: Wut? No one asked for or wanted this. I wanted Q, What about F and G? We all need P and R
^^What it feels like to me being on forums and then seeing new updates roll out.^^
it’s only like that if YOU are an annoying person who thinks the game should bend to your will. most players don’t provide feedback thinking like that, including me. we make a genuine suggestions for a game we love.
ESO solicits feedback, players find consensus here about certain game improvements, the community managers acknowledge it and then it gets tossed into the waste bin.12 -
Cooperharley✭✭✭Sorry but its more like this:Player on Forum: I have this great idea that would really improve the game.
Other Players on Forum: No!! Hell No. Yes. I dont care, but mostly no. Ok but mine is better.
Community Manager: So what are we going to do when eso players are complainging on everything always and they think that they all have the best sollutions to the game, but everyone has a different one?
Community Manager: Welcome to Update XX! We are super excited to introduce X and Y
Players on Forums: Wut? No one asked for or wanted this. I wanted Q, What about F and G? We all need P and R
^^What it feels like to me being on forums and then seeing new updates roll out.^^
it’s only like that if YOU are an annoying person who thinks the game should bend to your will. most players don’t provide feedback thinking like that, including me. we make a genuine suggestions for a game we love.
ESO solicits feedback, players find consensus here about certain game improvements, the community managers acknowledge it and then it gets tossed into the waste bin.
Exactly! The criticism is from a place of love for the game! We wouldn't criticize the game and ask for improvements continuously if we didn't want the best for it!5 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sorry but its more like this:Player on Forum: I have this great idea that would really improve the game.
Other Players on Forum: No!! Hell No. Yes. I dont care, but mostly no. Ok but mine is better.
Community Manager: So what are we going to do when eso players are complainging on everything always and they think that they all have the best sollutions to the game, but everyone has a different one?
Community Manager: Welcome to Update XX! We are super excited to introduce X and Y
Players on Forums: Wut? No one asked for or wanted this. I wanted Q, What about F and G? We all need P and R
^^What it feels like to me being on forums and then seeing new updates roll out.^^
it’s only like that if YOU are an annoying person who thinks the game should bend to your will. most players don’t provide feedback thinking like that, including me. we make a genuine suggestions for a game we love.
ESO solicits feedback, players find consensus here about certain game improvements, the community managers acknowledge it and then it gets tossed into the waste bin.
The forum never finds consensus. Honestly, they don't. At best dissenters stop replying because it is not productive to engage.3 -
Aggrovious✭✭✭Kevin did say he would pass my concerns to the team. I don't know how effective this will be, but at least he read one of my post about Azureblight...Making a game fun should be a priority. Making a game balanced should not come at the expense of fun.1 -
JanTanhide✭✭✭✭✭
✭The only "feedback" ZOS ever listens to i.m.o. is when we, the customers, stop ESO Plus. U35 was the absolute worst update ever in this game and update 44 is following close behind it. All these changes that no one asked for are being implemented in update 44. The player base continues to shrink as the game becomes less fun with these updates.
One day this game will go away when the paying customer base is gone. It will be because of these horrible changes over and over that no one asked for. That is what I think. Have a good day everyone.12 -
Stafford197✭✭✭✭✭Sorry but its more like this:Player on Forum: I have this great idea that would really improve the game.
Other Players on Forum: No!! Hell No. Yes. I dont care, but mostly no. Ok but mine is better.
Community Manager: So what are we going to do when eso players are complainging on everything always and they think that they all have the best sollutions to the game, but everyone has a different one?
Community Manager: Welcome to Update XX! We are super excited to introduce X and Y
Players on Forums: Wut? No one asked for or wanted this. I wanted Q, What about F and G? We all need P and R
^^What it feels like to me being on forums and then seeing new updates roll out.^^
it’s only like that if YOU are an annoying person who thinks the game should bend to your will. most players don’t provide feedback thinking like that, including me. we make a genuine suggestions for a game we love.
ESO solicits feedback, players find consensus here about certain game improvements, the community managers acknowledge it and then it gets tossed into the waste bin.
The forum never finds consensus. Honestly, they don't. At best dissenters stop replying because it is not productive to engage.
No you’re completely wrong and disregarding all player feedback.
Stalking Blastbones removal, Puncturing Strikes animation nerf, and U35 balance changes want to say hi, just to name recent examples. There was enormous consensus across all social media and ingame that these were all horrible changes and yet they still went though. ZOS even issued public apologies in the case of U35 changes.
In the game’s history there have been many situations like this, such as with AoE Caps, or Dark Brotherhood animation updates… players do come to consensus on major unpopular changes. Not everything of course, but absolutely on the major stuff.
10 -
AngryPenguin✭✭✭✭Don't worry your pretty little heads about it.
"They're working on it!"
ESO became a take it or leave it proposition a year or two before the "They're working on it" statement during you know who's live stream.
....jabs animation and most of the other changes that came with U35
....and it was account wide achievements before that
....and before that it was the beginning a series of stealth nerfing Cyrodiil population caps
....and before that it was.....
ZOS gonna do whatever they want. Take it or leave it.
Edited by AngryPenguin on October 22, 2024 3:28PM11 -
Nerouyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Stafford197 wrote: »No you’re completely wrong and disregarding all player feedback.
Stalking Blastbones removal....
Wow, I didn't even realise it was back. Great news for necros.0 -
alpha_synuclein✭✭✭✭For every change (even the huge ones) players only have the opportunity to see what direction the game is going when the PTS starts. When all the decisionmaking and vast majority of implementation is done already. There is no space for any significant adjustment or vision changes. Just minor tweaks or, like with U35, some pitiful attempts of damage control when sweet hits the fan...
This system is simply not designed to include players feedback.6 -
Vulkunne✭✭✭✭✭
✭Been with this game since almost the very beginning and the way I look at things now it really feels as if there's been almost like a culture change from the way things were and how they are today.
It used to be many of us thought of ESO as being 'our' game because we all thought of the Elder Scrolls Story as being something we all loved and appreciated. But now PvP in ESO really feels like its not for everyone anymore. Case in point, I know many players including myself having any ideas or contributions meet fierce resistance from the community itself, never mind ZOS. I mean this isn't even counting other issues I have with ZOS over a few specific things.
So, I dunno what to tell you. There's not going to be any change and you're basically wasting your time trying to post your ideas and be influential. If ZOS doesn't just ignore someone else will spend pages upon pages over months fighting you. Be thankful for what you have. Honestly when I think of ESO anymore, the 'good times' come to mind. I try not to think about how things are now and how bad and corrupt PvP has become. Vateshran Destro Staff + CC + Burst spam users and Ball groups for example.
I remember back in the day where PvP was all about class skills and maybe some folks had arena weapons mixed in for measure. But now it's a bunch of gimmicks and 'bad actors' who kill people *suspiciously fast* after CCing them and using things like Vat Staff to do the fighting for them. Then there's Ball groups annihilating an entire server and my zone chat looking like the Vietnam War Memorial from all the players they've killed without dying one time.
Like I said, for PvP, my ESO was in the past. More and more I really have no idea what PvP has become. PvE however I think the game is just fine, relatively speaking. The idea here is not to knock the game itself btw.Edited by Vulkunne on October 27, 2024 1:47PM"I know that someday that sun is bound to shine." -Ella Fitzgerald5 -
Navaac223✭✭✭Been with this game since almost the very beginning and the way I look at things now it really feels as if there's been almost like a culture change from the way things were and how they are today.
It used to be many of us thought of ESO as being 'our' game because we all thought of the Elder Scrolls Story as being something we all loved and appreciated. But now ESO really feels like its not for everyone anymore. Case in point, I know many players including myself having any ideas or contributions meet fierce resistance from the community itself, never mind ZOS. I mean this isn't even counting other issues I have with ZOS over a few specific things.
So, I dunno what to tell you. There's not going to be any change and you're basically wasting your time trying to post your ideas and be influential. If ZOS doesn't just ignore someone else will spend pages upon pages over months fighting you. Be thankful for what you have. Honestly when I think of ESO anymore, the 'good times' come to mind. I try not to think about how things are now and how bad and corrupt PvP has become. Vateshran Destro Staff + CC + Burst spam users and Ball groups for example.
I remember back in the day where PvP was all about class skills and maybe some folks had arena weapons mixed in for measure. But now its all gimmicks and 'bad actors' who kill people *suspiciously fast* after CCing them and using Vat Staff to the fighting for them. Then there's Ball groups annihilating an entire server and my zone chat looking like the Vietnam War Memorial from all the players they've killed without dying one time.
Like I said, my ESO was in the past. More and more I really have no idea what this is.
Skill issue
CC, as far as I'm aware, has always been in the game and players have always used it in their burst combo. Yes, there are huge balance problems in pvp right now (cough cough magsorc) but I think you're overestimating the damage that the vate staff does.
If your ideas face "fierce resistance from the community itself" it might be because some of them, like insisting that people can't possibly kill you in 3 secs without cheating, are wrong.
Thank you ZOS, after the nerf to boneyard that made the whole class unusable and the GLS fiasco, you gave us ghostly embrace wich actually feels like a (less reliable) fossilize. Now we can finally have fun on a necro againBe thankful for what you have.
Wait.. what do you mean, it's getting deleted despite no one having asked for it ?! Oh ZOS
Edited by Navaac223 on October 22, 2024 6:18PM2 -
Vulkunne✭✭✭✭✭
✭Been with this game since almost the very beginning and the way I look at things now it really feels as if there's been almost like a culture change from the way things were and how they are today.
It used to be many of us thought of ESO as being 'our' game because we all thought of the Elder Scrolls Story as being something we all loved and appreciated. But now ESO really feels like its not for everyone anymore. Case in point, I know many players including myself having any ideas or contributions meet fierce resistance from the community itself, never mind ZOS. I mean this isn't even counting other issues I have with ZOS over a few specific things.
So, I dunno what to tell you. There's not going to be any change and you're basically wasting your time trying to post your ideas and be influential. If ZOS doesn't just ignore someone else will spend pages upon pages over months fighting you. Be thankful for what you have. Honestly when I think of ESO anymore, the 'good times' come to mind. I try not to think about how things are now and how bad and corrupt PvP has become. Vateshran Destro Staff + CC + Burst spam users and Ball groups for example.
I remember back in the day where PvP was all about class skills and maybe some folks had arena weapons mixed in for measure. But now its all gimmicks and 'bad actors' who kill people *suspiciously fast* after CCing them and using Vat Staff to the fighting for them. Then there's Ball groups annihilating an entire server and my zone chat looking like the Vietnam War Memorial from all the players they've killed without dying one time.
Like I said, my ESO was in the past. More and more I really have no idea what this is.
Skill issue
CC, as far as I'm aware, has always been in the game and players have always used it in their burst combo. Yes, there are huge balance problems in pvp right now (cough cough magsorc) but I think you're overestimating the damage that the vate staff does.
If your ideas face "fierce resistance from the community itself" it might be because some of them, like insisting that people can't possibly kill you in 3 secs without cheating, are wrong.
Thank you ZOS, after the nerf to boneyard that made the whole class unusable and the GLS fiasco, you gave us ghostly embrace wich actually feels like a (less reliable) fossilize. Now we can finally have fun on a necro againBe thankful for what you have.
Wait.. what do you mean, it's getting deleted despite no one having asked for it ?! Oh ZOS
If it's not a skill issue for you then why use it?
Make no mistake this line of thinking isn't specifically directed at anyone on here. However, I've just seen the same folks in game doing the same tired tricks and boasting about it when really it seems to me the skill issue is on them.
There shouldn't be any bragging without sport otherwise it's just an execution. I'm sorry to say it that way but that's how it is. I just think things were better when we had good players, regardless of whether we liked them or not, who really knew their class well and how to win big with it. Those were better days if you ask me, even if I wasn't in the best position back then.Edited by Vulkunne on October 23, 2024 2:52PM"I know that someday that sun is bound to shine." -Ella Fitzgerald0 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Same, not playing this game of changing sets every patch anymore. Azureblight will go live in a form we don't want and nothing will change. They will do whatever they want despite the fact the people that are actually paying their wages vehemently disagree with the direction they are going.
I spent a whole 10 minutes on ESO, today, doing endeavours. That is all I will do now. no need for eso+ anymore. My few minutes in the morning are all I am interested in playing, unless a friend wants help. I can better spend my time in a game where the players feel wanted, and not an annoyance to ignore, or placate with vague acknowledgements of their existence..
To be somewhat fair to ZOS... the wild set and ability changes are far fewer than they were in the era from Elsweyr to Blackwood. That was when the game really began to feel like an Etch-a-Sketch, where literally everything was scrambled from patch to patch. That simply isn't the case these days (indeed, if you are, say, a woebegone Necro main, you are wishing that changes were perhaps a bit more frequent because progress on buffing your class is glacially slow... but I digress).
Also, things like the Azure adjustment are to be expected when you ride the lightning of the latest meta hotness. Azure was overperforming in every type of content in the game so it is really no surprise that it got adjusted. And with the latest PTS iteration it seems to be in a relatively balanced spot for PvE. It will remain perfectly usable for the types of fights that it was intended for - large add pulls or bosses with tons of adds.2 -
The_Meathead✭✭✭Only the most active part of people write on this forum and their suggestions do not always reflect the wishes of most players. Then, there are doubts that this game project is in the development stage, and not in the support stage, whether ZoS sees the expediency of introducing new global things into a morally old game. Of course, I partially agree with the author's opinion, but I also see another side.
Hahaha
I love that you used the car Homer designed for his brother's company to illustrate your point! I've used that as an example in the past of what happens when a producer listens TOO much to a buyer about a product and builds a monstrosity no one wants. Some games in the past (WoW, imo) have leaned so hard into player wants that they watered down the feel of their own product with QoL stuff that took away trivial little challenges that ended up being intrinsic to the actual enjoyment of the game.
That said, I don't think that's the case here. ZOS is certainly not taking customer input that heavily.
The easiest example that's been mentioned is Jabs.
It was a particularly beloved ability, kinda pleasantly addictive animation, and a major or even main part of why many chose to play Templar. U35 not only nerfed the ability into obsolescence for all but the most stubborn diehards, it completely trainwrecked the animation in a way that's been all but universally loathed.
Players in-game, players on the Forums, streamers (see: Deltia's pool noodle), and pretty much anyone anywhere that would mention the subject HATE the new Jabs animation and voiced it LOUDLY. If text can be "deafening," it has been.
Yet here we are, still looking at that Vampire Oar side smack animation.
Grim Focus's perma-glow is another, where it just feels like it's not some guy saying "I want flying mounts!" and then saying his awesome idea is ignored, its players speaking near-universally on a bad change that occurred - and ZOS has been silent in return.
I really didn't used to feel that way, prior to U35. The disconnect has grown.13 -
Navaac223✭✭✭
That's the thing : I only use it on 1 of my 6 pvp characters. Why ? Because it isn't op and no, it does not win fights for me. It's just a nice dot that costs 2 slots.Been with this game since almost the very beginning and the way I look at things now it really feels as if there's been almost like a culture change from the way things were and how they are today.
It used to be many of us thought of ESO as being 'our' game because we all thought of the Elder Scrolls Story as being something we all loved and appreciated. But now ESO really feels like its not for everyone anymore. Case in point, I know many players including myself having any ideas or contributions meet fierce resistance from the community itself, never mind ZOS. I mean this isn't even counting other issues I have with ZOS over a few specific things.
So, I dunno what to tell you. There's not going to be any change and you're basically wasting your time trying to post your ideas and be influential. If ZOS doesn't just ignore someone else will spend pages upon pages over months fighting you. Be thankful for what you have. Honestly when I think of ESO anymore, the 'good times' come to mind. I try not to think about how things are now and how bad and corrupt PvP has become. Vateshran Destro Staff + CC + Burst spam users and Ball groups for example.
I remember back in the day where PvP was all about class skills and maybe some folks had arena weapons mixed in for measure. But now its all gimmicks and 'bad actors' who kill people *suspiciously fast* after CCing them and using Vat Staff to the fighting for them. Then there's Ball groups annihilating an entire server and my zone chat looking like the Vietnam War Memorial from all the players they've killed without dying one time.
Like I said, my ESO was in the past. More and more I really have no idea what this is.
Skill issue
CC, as far as I'm aware, has always been in the game and players have always used it in their burst combo. Yes, there are huge balance problems in pvp right now (cough cough magsorc) but I think you're overestimating the damage that the vate staff does.
If your ideas face "fierce resistance from the community itself" it might be because some of them, like insisting that people can't possibly kill you in 3 secs without cheating, are wrong.
Thank you ZOS, after the nerf to boneyard that made the whole class unusable and the GLS fiasco, you gave us ghostly embrace wich actually feels like a (less reliable) fossilize. Now we can finally have fun on a necro againBe thankful for what you have.
Wait.. what do you mean, it's getting deleted despite no one having asked for it ?! Oh ZOS
If its such a skill issue then why use it? Before the Vateshran Arena came around and even before that PvP was mostly people show casing talent by using their class skills. They didn't look for an Arena weapon to play the game for them. Aside from Maelstrom Destro but that's PvE and isn't over-powered anyways. It was just 'necessary'. Things like Vat Destro are a luxury but I see people using this more and more and they know that if they CC and burst they can 'win' a fight without having to fight.
If anything, its those folks who have the skill issue... Literally. Their style leaves no real risk or PvP fighting involved. And its the same with the Ball groups. No one can fight back, there's no challenge and thus no sport which reflects badly on -you- more than the poor person you just won against.
And then both of these parties add insult to injury when very clearly, they're killing lots of players with very little skill involved. Its just spam these buffs or vat attack and CC and spam your burst damage. I'm just tired of this and it just makes me care very little about PvP because its not a professional thing anymore. Its not respectable like it used to be and the people doing these things aren't respectable either.
No one, not anyone who using the gimmicks or the ball groups and claims either they are one of the best players in the game or claims someone has skill issues and is less than them, in my book, can even hold a candle next to the real PvPers who could do similar in the old days using just class skills and displaying real merit like many of the Emperors of Old that I knew. None of you come even close to them and for what its worth neither do I but at least I know what a real PvP fight can be like.
Now, about that spammables and CC spam.. idk what to say. I might not have been in cyrodiil for as long as you, but I don't think pvp has ever been about spamming anything else
I do get that the ammount of skill required to get kills has decreased but I don't think vateshran is to be blamed. I'd look into the one class that has the best damage (at range btw), the best mobility and the best tankiness. If I'm in IC on my stamcro and I see a vate destro staff user, I proc clever alc. If I see a magsorc, I say goodbye to my telvar while helplessly seeing my health drop 6k by 6k and all my damage being eaten by a single button press.
Basically the only thing I want to argue here is : yes, balance is terrible but no, the vate destro staff was never the problem. Next time you get killed by those unskilled vate abusers, try /cmx to find out that the damage came mostly from... active skills0 -
shadyjane62✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The_Meathead wrote: »Honestly, since about U35 I've felt that the decision making has been strongly out of sync with player wants and feedback.
It's gotten worse, not better, and frankly it's almost startling how disconnected it seems from PTS, player feedback, and forum discussions.
I certainly don't expect them to jump on every little thing the Forums manage a semi-consensus on, but things like Jabs, Flurry, Grim Focus' permaglow and stuff like that has been so near-universally deadpanned by players that it's shocking to see it so ignored. Equally or maybe even more disturbing when the PTS posters give staggeringly detailed and logical reasons an incoming Set or Ability change shouldn't happen... but then ZOS plows on through with it, only to over-nerf it a year later instead.
The story becoming more "family friendly" and further from the Elder Scrolls "feel" is also very problematic to me.
I still love ESO and enjoy the game tremendously or I wouldn't be here, but if I'm being very honest that enjoyment comes in spite of decisions made at U35 and after, rather than because of them. Little by little, the game I love is being chipped away and ignoring player feedback has been a huge part of that.
Eventually, it will be too much.
Already there. I have been killing time waiting for a new game since they took my jabs.
The game essentially ended there.7 -
reazea✭✭✭✭✭
✭The_Meathead wrote: »Only the most active part of people write on this forum and their suggestions do not always reflect the wishes of most players. Then, there are doubts that this game project is in the development stage, and not in the support stage, whether ZoS sees the expediency of introducing new global things into a morally old game. Of course, I partially agree with the author's opinion, but I also see another side.
Hahaha
I love that you used the car Homer designed for his brother's company to illustrate your point! I've used that as an example in the past of what happens when a producer listens TOO much to a buyer about a product and builds a monstrosity no one wants. Some games in the past (WoW, imo) have leaned so hard into player wants that they watered down the feel of their own product with QoL stuff that took away trivial little challenges that ended up being intrinsic to the actual enjoyment of the game.
That said, I don't think that's the case here. ZOS is certainly not taking customer input that heavily.
The easiest example that's been mentioned is Jabs.
It was a particularly beloved ability, kinda pleasantly addictive animation, and a major or even main part of why many chose to play Templar. U35 not only nerfed the ability into obsolescence for all but the most stubborn diehards, it completely trainwrecked the animation in a way that's been all but universally loathed.
Players in-game, players on the Forums, streamers (see: Deltia's pool noodle), and pretty much anyone anywhere that would mention the subject HATE the new Jabs animation and voiced it LOUDLY. If text can be "deafening," it has been.
Yet here we are, still looking at that Vampire Oar side smack animation.
Grim Focus's perma-glow is another, where it just feels like it's not some guy saying "I want flying mounts!" and then saying his awesome idea is ignored, its players speaking near-universally on a bad change that occurred - and ZOS has been silent in return.
I really didn't used to feel that way, prior to U35. The disconnect has grown.
U35 and the change to jabs animation was stunningly bad. That ZOS has made zero effort to rectify their mistakes in U35 is even more jaw dropping.8 -
MidniteOwl1913✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Players leave but new players come in and replace them. As long as the total number of people remains about the same ZOS has no reason to care, shrug and they don't. And yes U35 was the first time that was really on display. It's not going to get any better I just hope it doesn't get worse.
PS5/NA3 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »Players leave but new players come in and replace them. As long as the total number of people remains about the same ZOS has no reason to care, shrug and they don't. And yes U35 was the first time that was really on display. It's not going to get any better I just hope it doesn't get worse.
It is the revolving door effect. As players leave, new players enter. It happens with every live service game. If players are leaving because of ZOS, as they seem to do after Updates, the new players won't have the history to understand why.3 -
twev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »Players leave but new players come in and replace them. As long as the total number of people remains about the same ZOS has no reason to care, shrug and they don't. And yes U35 was the first time that was really on display. It's not going to get any better I just hope it doesn't get worse.
It is the revolving door effect. As players leave, new players enter. It happens with every live service game. If players are leaving because of ZOS, as they seem to do after Updates, the new players won't have the history to understand why.
I don't think most players have any issue with things added to the game, tho some might not prefer the way additions are implemented.
I mean things like ToT, and housing tours, for example.
OK, Some people like/love the additions.
Two major gripes I think are being ignored or satisfactorally addressed by ZOS are:
1.) The fact that major bugs and the resulting functional playability aren't being addressed in any meaningful way, much less being solved. A long while ago I got the feeling that there was little point in buying the next chapter when the unaddressed cumulative bugs in previous chapters were already interfering with the existing game for many.
2.) Design aspects like changing abilities, and many things feeling randomly nerfed for the sake of change, or specifically being nerfed right before 'The Next Big Thing' is introduced in the next chapter keeps players in a state of flux where many players feel that it's becoming a waste of time and resources chasing the next BIS, meaning they cut back on their engagement.
The game feels less like a coherent game design is planned, and more like a chaotic pinball machine ball bouncing all over the field from one direction to another as one change after another is injected into the game.
I understand the concept of evolution, but the core systems of game feel more like new chapters with respect to the existing game are planned in a blender set on puree half the time, with a sprinkling of new bugs added to old bugs, for the excitement of surprise.
I've said before, I've quit buying chapters, and play hardly at all anymore because the old bugs making the game annoying are rarely addressed in any meaningful way, and new content with new bugs are added to compound the problem.
Why would I need new chapters when I already have issues with successfully playing some of the existing content with lag, FPS issues and disconnects?
Edit to [hopefully] add applicable quotesEdited by twev on October 23, 2024 11:51AMThe problem with society these days is that no one drinks from the skulls of their enemies anymore.5 -
MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »Players leave but new players come in and replace them. As long as the total number of people remains about the same ZOS has no reason to care, shrug and they don't. And yes U35 was the first time that was really on display. It's not going to get any better I just hope it doesn't get worse.
It is the revolving door effect. As players leave, new players enter. It happens with every live service game. If players are leaving because of ZOS, as they seem to do after Updates, the new players won't have the history to understand why.
The problem with that is after 10 years they’re losing more players than they’re gaining. They had a total of 26m subscribers but between all platforms the daily player count is 40k. They rake in enough money not to worry about losing money but the game will be a wasteland sooner or later.
Aion released in 09 and still has about 400 daily players and they still haven’t shut it down because those people are whales. Sure the game is profitable but nobody’s playing it.6 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KromedeTheCorrupt wrote: »MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »Players leave but new players come in and replace them. As long as the total number of people remains about the same ZOS has no reason to care, shrug and they don't. And yes U35 was the first time that was really on display. It's not going to get any better I just hope it doesn't get worse.
It is the revolving door effect. As players leave, new players enter. It happens with every live service game. If players are leaving because of ZOS, as they seem to do after Updates, the new players won't have the history to understand why.
The problem with that is after 10 years they’re losing more players than they’re gaining. They had a total of 26m subscribers but between all platforms the daily player count is 40k. They rake in enough money not to worry about losing money but the game will be a wasteland sooner or later.
Aion released in 09 and still has about 400 daily players and they still haven’t shut it down because those people are whales. Sure the game is profitable but nobody’s playing it.
That may be where ESO is going, too. A few whales playing the housing end-game or ToT or role playing with friends might keep this game open for a long time.1 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ideas take a long time to implement. So even if they go with your idea, unless it's really simple, it's probably going to take some months or a year or whatever. Feedback that's passed along does get used sometimes though.
Also, the player economy stagnates and people kind of check out if there isn't anything new to grind.
The problem isn't really new sets or the like. The problem is moreso that there's a lack of content now. They've drastically reduced new content and it's making things feel a bit stale imo.2 -
RomanRex✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »They've drastically reduced new content and it's making things feel a bit stale imo.
Content, and the of quality of content, has definitely fallen off.
Very negligible QoL improvements combined with new content that has very low appeal to many players.
IMHO this includes ToT, Housing Tours, Infinite Archive and others. Scribing had great potential, but was very lackluster and disappointing for many reasons.9 -
Erickson9610✭✭✭✭✭
✭spartaxoxo wrote: »They've drastically reduced new content and it's making things feel a bit stale imo.
Content, and the of quality of content, has definitely fallen off.
Very negligible QoL improvements combined with new content that has very low appeal to many players.
IMHO this includes ToT, Housing Tours, Infinite Archive and others. Scribing had great potential, but was very lackluster and disappointing for many reasons.
The only way to know for sure which content is unpopular with players is to use statistics from in-game play. ZOS may get more nuanced feedback from written responses via /bug or /feedback in-game, or posts on the ESO reddit, the ESO forums, or other ESO social media outlets, but player actions speak louder than words.
Endeavors (and soon Golden Pursuits) give players a choice between certain predetermined activities, and ZOS uses statistics from that to determine which activities are the most popular with (and which ones are the least preferable for) players.PC/NA — Lone Werewolf, the Templar Khajiit Werewolf
Werewolf Should be Allowed to Sneak
Please give us Werewolf Skill Styles (for customizing our fur color), Grimoires/Scribing skills (to fill in the holes in our builds), and Companions (to transform with).1 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Erickson9610 wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »They've drastically reduced new content and it's making things feel a bit stale imo.
Content, and the of quality of content, has definitely fallen off.
Very negligible QoL improvements combined with new content that has very low appeal to many players.
IMHO this includes ToT, Housing Tours, Infinite Archive and others. Scribing had great potential, but was very lackluster and disappointing for many reasons.
The only way to know for sure which content is unpopular with players is to use statistics from in-game play. ZOS may get more nuanced feedback from written responses via /bug or /feedback in-game, or posts on the ESO reddit, the ESO forums, or other ESO social media outlets, but player actions speak louder than words.
Endeavors (and soon Golden Pursuits) give players a choice between certain predetermined activities, and ZOS uses statistics from that to determine which activities are the most popular with (and which ones are the least preferable for) players.
They can use that information to plan upcoming feature, or they can use it for social engineering. If enough people are not doing a certain task in the game, and they want players doing those things, they can arrange for endeavors, or rewards from other activities, such that players are encouraged to do those things.7 -
Lumsdenml✭✭✭✭✭
✭Like ToT I have never heard anyone in guild chat even mention it let alone play it , point is op is correct I see no point whatsoever in giving feedback they don't care, just look at pvp it's such a joke now, why there is even a pts is beyond me. It's there game they can do what they want.
Quite a few people enjoy ToTIn game ID: @KnightOfTacoma
Main: Black Knight of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50/CP 2160 Nightblade NA PC - Grand Master Crafter, adventurer and part time ganker. Rank 35 - Palatine Grade 1
PVP Main:Knight of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Templar NA PC - Rank 29 - Brigadier Grade 1 - Ravenwatch veteran. Blood for the Pact!
Guild: The Disenfranchised - ZZ!Other alts:
Blood Scion of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Nightblade NA PC
Duke of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Dragonknight NA PC
Yama Of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Necromancer NA PC
Count Of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Necromancer NA PC
Seigneur of Tacoma - EP Lvl 28 Arcanist NA PC
Grand Vizier of Tacoma - EP Lvl 19 Arcanist NA PC - Icereach
Baron of Tacoma- EP Lvl 50 Warden NA PC -
Ali'i nui of Tacoma- EP Lvl 17 Sorcerer NA PC -
Angus of Tacoma- EP Lvl 47 Sorcerer NA PC - Former EmperorObituary:
RIP Priest of Tacoma - EP Lvl 22 Dragon Knight NA PC Kyne - Lost in the Garden of Shadows.
RIP.Viscount of Tacoma - EP Lvl 18 Dragon Knight NA PC Kyne - Lost in the war.
RIP. Squire of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Templar NA PC - Died of Knahaten Flu.
RIP Reaper of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Templar NA PC - Died of Consumption.
RIP Sovereign of Tacoma - EP Lvl 32 NightBlade NA PC Kyne - Lost at The Battle of Brindle, December 13, 2018.
RIP Dauphin of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Templar NA PC Kyne - Overdosed on Skooma.
RIP Wraith of Tacoma - EP Lvl 10 Dragon Knight NA PC - Eaten by a dragon.
RIP Red Knight of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Templar NA PC - Died at the Battle of Chalmen, March 18th, 2021.
RIP Maharajah of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Templar NA PC - Lost in a sandstorm.
RIP Vampire Of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Sorcerer NA PC - Fell asleep in the sun. RIP3 -
MidniteOwl1913✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Ideas take a long time to implement. So even if they go with your idea, unless it's really simple, it's probably going to take some months or a year or whatever. Feedback that's passed along does get used sometimes though.
Also, the player economy stagnates and people kind of check out if there isn't anything new to grind.
The problem isn't really new sets or the like. The problem is moreso that there's a lack of content now. They've drastically reduced new content and it's making things feel a bit stale imo.
But even ideas that have been around and suggested enough times are ignored as well. Sure development takes time, but there is a vast backlog of good ideas ignored for years. I don't think it takes time is a good excuse.
PS5/NA5