Players are leaving ESO - here's why

twev · October 7

Northwold wrote: »

aleksandr_ESO wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

No one is really leaving.

According to charts...

September 2023 was:
Avg. Players: 11,037
Peak Players: 17,600

October 2023 is:
Avg. Players: 10,748
Peak Players: 17,131

sep 2020 - 19k
in 4 years, the game has lost 50% of players, and dropped to the numbers of 2018

That was Covid so all other points aside not an especially useful reference point. Doesn't really say much of anything that that was the total the game could muster *when people were literally sitting at home doing nothing every single day*.

Do you really want to go on record as saying that 2018 population numbers being similar to 2024 population numbers for a game that has sold a fair portion of the 24 million copies since 2018 is an acceptable indication of a 'healthy' game that is doing well in the eyes of the investors who are expected to continue funding the game as a good investment for continued development?

Sure, people may be buying licenses (they go for about $7.00 on many of the software outlets for a one-time sale), but MMOs like ESO count on continued in-game store sales and monthly subscriptions for a much larger share of cash flow than just the percentage of the license fee they get from the software outlets, to fund development beyond, the fixed costs of server farm equipment leasing and office space overhead.

Northwold · October 7

twev wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

aleksandr_ESO wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

No one is really leaving.

According to charts...

September 2023 was:
Avg. Players: 11,037
Peak Players: 17,600

October 2023 is:
Avg. Players: 10,748
Peak Players: 17,131

sep 2020 - 19k
in 4 years, the game has lost 50% of players, and dropped to the numbers of 2018

That was Covid so all other points aside not an especially useful reference point. Doesn't really say much of anything that that was the total the game could muster *when people were literally sitting at home doing nothing every single day*.

Do you really want to go on record as saying that 2018 population numbers being similar to 2024 population numbers for a game that has sold a fair portion of the 24 million copies since 2018 is an acceptable indication of a 'healthy' game that is doing well in the eyes of the investors who are expected to continue funding the game as a good investment for continued development?

Sure, people may be buying licenses (they go for about $7.00 on many of the software outlets for a one-time sale), but MMOs like ESO count on continued in-game store sales and monthly subscriptions for a much larger share of cash flow than just the percentage of the license fee they get from the software outlets, to fund development beyond, the fixed costs of server farm equipment leasing and office space overhead.

I didn't say it was healthy (or otherwise). I pointed out that it was pointless to compare to user numbers during Covid (because it is). These are completely different issues.

gronoxvx · October 8

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

Despite lots of threads about malaise in the player base, people will complain that there is no data. Then people post data from Steam, and people complain that it's not fair to look at Steam numbers, because not everyone uses it.

Sorry, but Steam is a large enough portion of the player population to be indicative of what's happening with the game overall. That's just how statistics and the law of averages works. Unless you can cite some reason that ONLY Steam players are sloughing off, this assumption is valid.

Since this is a forum devoted to ESO, and I've seen comments about other games get removed recently, I won't bother to include any other games on the chart.

The fact is that we've lost about half the player count from the COVID shutdown time from 2 years ago. Heck, we've lost 40% from the high in April.

The question I'm asking myself is at what player count the game becomes unprofitable, and gets shuttered.

Ive always said it would be great if microsoft and PS published player numbers for console. I think if they did it would really put things into perspective and validate a lot of comments made by console players beyond just this thread and over the many years of the game.

Until then all people can do is go off personal experiences and current observations with console at least, but for those screaming for data it wont be enough as they wont ever get it. 🤷

Elsonso · October 8

twev wrote: »

Do you really want to go on record as saying that 2018 population numbers being similar to 2024 population numbers for a game that has sold a fair portion of the 24 million copies since 2018 is an acceptable indication of a 'healthy' game that is doing well in the eyes of the investors who are expected to continue funding the game as a good investment for continued development?

Personally, I think that what keeps ESO afloat is the revolving door of new players that replace older players that move on. This has been going on for years, and I observed this years ago. What has changed since then as that ZOS has doubled down on making changes that may very well be accelerating older players departing. I would not be surprised if departures exceeds arrivals.

OtarTheMad · October 8

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

Despite lots of threads about malaise in the player base, people will complain that there is no data. Then people post data from Steam, and people complain that it's not fair to look at Steam numbers, because not everyone uses it.

Sorry, but Steam is a large enough portion of the player population to be indicative of what's happening with the game overall. That's just how statistics and the law of averages works. Unless you can cite some reason that ONLY Steam players are sloughing off, this assumption is valid.

Since this is a forum devoted to ESO, and I've seen comments about other games get removed recently, I won't bother to include any other games on the chart.

The fact is that we've lost about half the player count from the COVID shutdown time from 2 years ago. Heck, we've lost 40% from the high in April.

The question I'm asking myself is at what player count the game becomes unprofitable, and gets shuttered.

One of the top reasons why I don’t take steam numbers as clear proof is because I know of players and read about some others who stopped playing ESO through steam because of launch issues. They have used the official launcher or directly from the file instead. So steam will show a decline for them but they still play.

ESO won’t last forever but I don’t think we are in trouble. Things fluctuate, I love ESO but I am not playing it right now. I am playing other stuff but I will definitely log in from time to time for dailies or events or PvP fun and I’ll definitely return to more regular playing at some point.

Just a lot of good games available.

Bradyfjord · October 8

Dragonnord wrote: »

Bradyfjord wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

aleksandr_ESO wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

No one is really leaving.

According to charts...

September 2023 was:
Avg. Players: 11,037
Peak Players: 17,600

October 2024 is:
Avg. Players: 10,748
Peak Players: 17,131

sep 2020 - 19k
in 4 years, the game has lost 50% of players, and dropped to the numbers of 2018

Dude! You can't go back like that. It doesn't work that way.

Otherwise, I can then say:

October 2017
Avg. Players: 7,780
Peak Players: 13,825

October 2024:
Avg. Players: 10,748
Peak Players: 17,131

We gained 3k players, right?

It doesn't work that way.

...But saying they can't go back to get data is wrong.

It's wrong? You sure? Fine then. As per my post above going back to Oct. 2017, we have gained 3k players. Awesome!

You misunderstood my point I think. I wanted more data. The inference made with only two points of data implies that the 3k increase was linear. I think we both know that the truth is more happened over the course of that span of time than us evident with only two data points.

MISTFORMBZZZ · October 8

Zos is working on an new mmo and has clearly pulled most of the ressources of eso.

Game is kept alive to milk the cow to the maximum.
We getting no new content, no crossplay, no bug fixes, nothing.

But crownstore works perfect

cptscotty · October 8

I have been in eso discords all day for the last week as I had some time off. When the event started only a handful people were on playing ESO and doing the event, not very happily at that. That population lasted for only 2 days.

By day 3 the majority of people in every ESO guild discord I joined were not even playing ESO. Everyone talking about another game they were playing and how they were so upset with the current state of ESO. Whether it was their class/set being nerfed, PVP sucking, the economy tanking, no good content, etc. I mean...I am in a housing guild and even they were playing other games as they hated the new housing update and dont even bother with it anymore since the addon they had for years was better with more features.

Majority of people didnt even know to log in to get the reward let alone if the event was still going. They all were off ESO.

So no...ESO is not fine.

Because of this continuously diminishing player base I couldnt get any organized group content done. Sure some easy simple runs...but nothing of real value. Nothing exciting. So I had to solo the majority of stuff...in an MMO. Sucked.

This lead me to finally complete some story content which lead me to realize why so many were upset. After completing the Necrom chapter I was left feeling ripped off and depressed. So I can fully understand why others are playing other games.

vsrs_au · October 8

Speaking of echo chambers... there are several long-term forum members who will never admit the game is in trouble, no matter what evidence you show them to show otherwise. I've spent almost all this year playing various offline games, and I have a long list of games to play. The only reason I still post here is idle curiosity about whether ZOS will actually turn the game around or not.

Coo_PnT · October 8

I still remember how excited I was when I first started ESO. The endless content and personal growth. I found the horse lessons to be very nonsensical though. I am simply tired of this game. Except for the unique and casual Cyrodiil PvP.

colossalvoids · October 8

Despite my thoughts that's it's all about neglected PvP, performance and lack of satisfaction for endgame PvE players the more I proceed in recent chapter's content the more is evident to me that casual players probably are falling off heavily with it.

Just had a pleasure of having a quest with Thunderboot and that's probably the most miserable, predictable and prolonged experience I've ever had in ESO. You know what's going on from the start, you can't do anything about anything happening and just a spectator in this painful story. It's like the worst 3/10 horror/detective movies some consume mindlessly on a second screen, but made into a quests. It would definitely fly like 15 year ago or so, probably more as a joke quest but they're telling it in more-less serious tone and al always character is treated like an absolute log. It's amazingly bad and I've certainly lost any will to process the zone for at least couple of days. If I wasn't a long TES addict I'd just quit instantly.

DinoZavr · October 8

vsrs_au wrote: »

The only reason I still post here is idle curiosity about whether ZOS will actually turn the game around or not.

Probably not. The recent 6 years are characterized in that game-makers are becoming more and more happy with the game, while players are reacting in exactly the opposite manner.
i see quite a serious disconnection between what players are desperately asking for and what is actually implemented.
though the variety of ESO playerbase is huge and, thus, we see many (often contradicting) viewpoints here at forums
- housing enthusiasts do not worry about PC/NA serious performance decline, which massively hits progression groups
- PVP players so not notice "flattering" of stories and lore, which are essential for roleplayers
- hardcore PVE players suffer from subsequent gear balancing (which now is nerf upon nerf), which does not affect causals
and so on and so forth..

We don't have AmA sessions with developers, so we hardly find out what game-makers actually think and plan.
And theirs opinions may vary too.

TL/DR; different players love and hate different aspects in ESO, they quit when they simply lose interest.

Elsonso · October 8

Bradyfjord wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Bradyfjord wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

aleksandr_ESO wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

No one is really leaving.

According to charts...

September 2023 was:
Avg. Players: 11,037
Peak Players: 17,600

October 2024 is:
Avg. Players: 10,748
Peak Players: 17,131

sep 2020 - 19k
in 4 years, the game has lost 50% of players, and dropped to the numbers of 2018

Dude! You can't go back like that. It doesn't work that way.

Otherwise, I can then say:

October 2017
Avg. Players: 7,780
Peak Players: 13,825

October 2024:
Avg. Players: 10,748
Peak Players: 17,131

We gained 3k players, right?

It doesn't work that way.

...But saying they can't go back to get data is wrong.

It's wrong? You sure? Fine then. As per my post above going back to Oct. 2017, we have gained 3k players. Awesome!

You misunderstood my point I think. I wanted more data. The inference made with only two points of data implies that the 3k increase was linear. I think we both know that the truth is more happened over the course of that span of time than us evident with only two data points.

Steam does not know if the ESO player is actually playing ESO. At best, the Steam Charts numbers show how many people opened the launcher through Steam. No one cares about that metric. There is an assumed correlation between opening the launcher and actually playing the game, but it is not a 1:1. People can open the launcher through Steam and not play. Steam customers can play without opening the launcher from Steam. Over time, the mix can change. This change will be represented in the Steam Charts numbers, even if the people actually playing never changes.

Steam Charts is showing a downward trend in use of the ESO launcher between pre and post pandemic data points. Is that because fewer people are playing ESO, or is it because more people aren't using the launcher to play? A little of both?

I suggest that it means the possibility of a non-critical reduction in Steam customers playing ESO, which can be extrapolated to a similar size, non-critical, reduction in global player numbers across the entire game. In other words, the slope is negative, but it does not indicate the game is failing.

Katheriah · October 8

I think most of the players that quit won't show themself on the forum related to the game.

Personally for the first time in a decade I'm kinda done. I have had periods where I would just login for a quick daily or the login rewards, but I think I will stay offline until I can check the Witches Festival.

For me it doesn't feel like we're having a grand 10y celebration. I feel like everything in the game is just neglected. I used to be fan of the idea to temporarely trade 1 story DLC for fixes, but only if those fixes were also about the same effort. I feel like ZOS has put a skeleton crew in place that's trying to juggle between performance, new content and engaging in the community, but fails at all those points. The new housing feature and the BG update almost feel like insults to me. I was there during the good days when you actually had to put some thoughts in which of the shiny new features of a chapter you will try first.

As a customer I don't feel heard. I look at ZOS streams and read the communication and I just can't stand it anymore how they are completely missing the mark.

On top of that my trial guild doesn't raid anymore, my PvP guild doesn't raid anymore, my trading guilds are having a hard time, my PvE group doesn't do dungeons anymore. I played the new chapter and I'm done with the story. I have done every single quest in this game and it will take a while before a new zone will be released.

Why should I stay? When there's games out there that do offer me what I look for... I stayed because I love ESO, but I will leave because it just feels neglected. I'm not having fun.

Now one person is not a problem, but let's not pretend I'm alone in feeling like this.

Thiswasmypresentationthankyouforlistening.

Aggrovious · October 8

Nerfing sets, skills, and classes will cause players to uninstall. Some of these players will never come back. Classes, skills and sets are key in MMO's. Why wouldn't players leave to go play Throne and Liberty right now? The event ends, they are gone. Dragonballz is releasing soon. Why would someone frustrated with the combat nerfs stay when they can go play as 181 characters in DBZ?

I've noticed no one likes to run craglorn trials such as Aetherian Archive. I mean who designs a trial where you need 12 people to cross? "Go join a guild." Well everyone runs Dreadsail Reef or Cloudrest. And if you get lucky enough, its a guild that takes 20 minutes to explain basic mechanics. Competent players will want to leave after this. I am fortunate to have friends because I would have otherwise uninstalled.

Its just nerf after nerf. This is becoming senseless and anyone who is defending these nerfs wants to be the only player online 5 years from now.

BahometZ · October 8

Oh look, steam charts again.

Jaimeh · October 8

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Zos is working on an new mmo and has clearly pulled most of the ressources of eso.

Game is kept alive to milk the cow to the maximum.
We getting no new content, no crossplay, no bug fixes, nothing.

But crownstore works perfect

Yep, this ^ The upcoming NB changes were the last straw for me, so although I still love the game and been a long time subscriber, supported the store, etc., I'm not on board with getting less content, while performance is going downhill, and also with some of the devs' decisions and attitude towards the playerbase, so I've decided to play the game as free to play from now on. It's a real pity they are not investing back in their most successful title, and also not appreciating the overwhelming loyalty of their community, and putting ESO on the backburner.

dk_dunkirk · October 8

Elsonso wrote: »

Bradyfjord wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Bradyfjord wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

aleksandr_ESO wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

No one is really leaving.

According to charts...

September 2023 was:
Avg. Players: 11,037
Peak Players: 17,600

October 2024 is:
Avg. Players: 10,748
Peak Players: 17,131

sep 2020 - 19k
in 4 years, the game has lost 50% of players, and dropped to the numbers of 2018

Dude! You can't go back like that. It doesn't work that way.

Otherwise, I can then say:

October 2017
Avg. Players: 7,780
Peak Players: 13,825

October 2024:
Avg. Players: 10,748
Peak Players: 17,131

We gained 3k players, right?

It doesn't work that way.

...But saying they can't go back to get data is wrong.

It's wrong? You sure? Fine then. As per my post above going back to Oct. 2017, we have gained 3k players. Awesome!

You misunderstood my point I think. I wanted more data. The inference made with only two points of data implies that the 3k increase was linear. I think we both know that the truth is more happened over the course of that span of time than us evident with only two data points.

Steam does not know if the ESO player is actually playing ESO. At best, the Steam Charts numbers show how many people opened the launcher through Steam. No one cares about that metric. There is an assumed correlation between opening the launcher and actually playing the game, but it is not a 1:1. People can open the launcher through Steam and not play. Steam customers can play without opening the launcher from Steam. Over time, the mix can change. This change will be represented in the Steam Charts numbers, even if the people actually playing never changes.

Steam Charts is showing a downward trend in use of the ESO launcher between pre and post pandemic data points. Is that because fewer people are playing ESO, or is it because more people aren't using the launcher to play? A little of both?

I suggest that it means the possibility of a non-critical reduction in Steam customers playing ESO, which can be extrapolated to a similar size, non-critical, reduction in global player numbers across the entire game. In other words, the slope is negative, but it does not indicate the game is failing.

So you're questioning the statistical relevance and general applicability of the Steam chart numbers because it's *possible* to not just... use the Steam app and the game launcher in the usual, sane way? OK. You think people create specific launch scripts/icons to avoid using the launcher, and purposely miss making sure that they're on the latest version? OK. You think people just launch the launcher, and then let it sit there, and not play? OK. On purpose? OK. To screw with the Steam data? OK. I can't understand the thinking on any of this, but OK.

SilverBride · October 8

ESO isn't a perfect utopia where every player gets exactly what they want. No game is. But it has a lot of options for many play styles, and many of us still enjoy this game very much.

I don't understand why some unhappy players feel the need to prove to everyone else that they should be unhappy, too.

colossalvoids · October 8

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Bradyfjord wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Bradyfjord wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

aleksandr_ESO wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

No one is really leaving.

According to charts...

September 2023 was:
Avg. Players: 11,037
Peak Players: 17,600

October 2024 is:
Avg. Players: 10,748
Peak Players: 17,131

sep 2020 - 19k
in 4 years, the game has lost 50% of players, and dropped to the numbers of 2018

Dude! You can't go back like that. It doesn't work that way.

Otherwise, I can then say:

October 2017
Avg. Players: 7,780
Peak Players: 13,825

October 2024:
Avg. Players: 10,748
Peak Players: 17,131

We gained 3k players, right?

It doesn't work that way.

...But saying they can't go back to get data is wrong.

It's wrong? You sure? Fine then. As per my post above going back to Oct. 2017, we have gained 3k players. Awesome!

You misunderstood my point I think. I wanted more data. The inference made with only two points of data implies that the 3k increase was linear. I think we both know that the truth is more happened over the course of that span of time than us evident with only two data points.

Steam does not know if the ESO player is actually playing ESO. At best, the Steam Charts numbers show how many people opened the launcher through Steam. No one cares about that metric. There is an assumed correlation between opening the launcher and actually playing the game, but it is not a 1:1. People can open the launcher through Steam and not play. Steam customers can play without opening the launcher from Steam. Over time, the mix can change. This change will be represented in the Steam Charts numbers, even if the people actually playing never changes.

Steam Charts is showing a downward trend in use of the ESO launcher between pre and post pandemic data points. Is that because fewer people are playing ESO, or is it because more people aren't using the launcher to play? A little of both?

I suggest that it means the possibility of a non-critical reduction in Steam customers playing ESO, which can be extrapolated to a similar size, non-critical, reduction in global player numbers across the entire game. In other words, the slope is negative, but it does not indicate the game is failing.

So you're questioning the statistical relevance and general applicability of the Steam chart numbers because it's *possible* to not just... use the Steam app and the game launcher in the usual, sane way? OK. You think people create specific launch scripts/icons to avoid using the launcher, and purposely miss making sure that they're on the latest version? OK. You think people just launch the launcher, and then let it sit there, and not play? OK. On purpose? OK. To screw with the Steam data? OK. I can't understand the thinking on any of this, but OK.

If you'll at least try you would easily guessed that some people could not close the launcher after the play and go about their business, some might boot it up for possible update/patch and let it run for infinite amount of time. A lot of steam users being doing so, it's nothing new.

About launching from the directory that's actually how some people who bought the game early could bypass steam issues with the game most of the time, newer ones can't. So some surely bypass steam check like that.

The game is in a bad state anyway, that's obvious to anyone playing more-less seriously for years to see the difference and observe different communities and how they have been moving away. Surely there's enough critical mass of players, but the critical mass of *dedicated* player's isn't there already probably, or close to that state.

Aggrovious · October 8

SilverBride wrote: »

ESO isn't a perfect utopia where every player gets exactly what they want. No game is. But it has a lot of options for many play styles, and many of us still enjoy this game very much.

I don't understand why some unhappy players feel the need to prove to everyone else that they should be unhappy, too.

So you are a happy player. What makes you feel happy about the game when you play?

SilverBride · October 8

Aggrovious wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

ESO isn't a perfect utopia where every player gets exactly what they want. No game is. But it has a lot of options for many play styles, and many of us still enjoy this game very much.

I don't understand why some unhappy players feel the need to prove to everyone else that they should be unhappy, too.

So you are a happy player. What makes you feel happy about the game when you play?

What makes me happy isn't the topic of this thread. The important thing is that many players are happy and are still playing, and this game is not dying.

Veinblood1965 · October 8

Elsonso wrote: »

twev wrote: »

Do you really want to go on record as saying that 2018 population numbers being similar to 2024 population numbers for a game that has sold a fair portion of the 24 million copies since 2018 is an acceptable indication of a 'healthy' game that is doing well in the eyes of the investors who are expected to continue funding the game as a good investment for continued development?

Personally, I think that what keeps ESO afloat is the revolving door of new players that replace older players that move on. This has been going on for years, and I observed this years ago. What has changed since then as that ZOS has doubled down on making changes that may very well be accelerating older players departing. I would not be surprised if departures exceeds arrivals.

This is true, I am getting ready to be one of those leaving due to just too many core class changes lately among other changes. Most of my guild that used to have healthy chats have hardly a chat at all.

Aggrovious · October 8

SilverBride wrote: »

What makes me happy isn't the topic of this thread. The important thing is that many players are happy and are still playing, and this game is not dying.

Forums are designed to discuss topics. A lot of great points have been brought up that kill player retention.

You provided a general answer of players are happy, but you did not say what makes them happy.

I can tell you I am not happy with a lot of the changes and I am not happy with templar nerfs and set nerfs. Why? It ruins my gameplay.

SilverBride · October 8

Aggrovious wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

What makes me happy isn't the topic of this thread. The important thing is that many players are happy and are still playing, and this game is not dying.

Forums are designed to discuss topics. A lot of great points have been brought up that kill player retention.

You provided a general answer of players are happy, but you did not say what makes them happy.

I can tell you I am not happy with a lot of the changes and I am not happy with templar nerfs and set nerfs. Why? It ruins my gameplay.

I am not going to derail into a discussion of what I personally like, and I can't speak for others about what they enjoy. All that matters is that there are a lot of players that still enjoy this game for whatever reasons and it is not dying.

dk_dunkirk · October 8

colossalvoids wrote: »

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Bradyfjord wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Bradyfjord wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

aleksandr_ESO wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

No one is really leaving.

According to charts...

September 2023 was:
Avg. Players: 11,037
Peak Players: 17,600

October 2024 is:
Avg. Players: 10,748
Peak Players: 17,131

sep 2020 - 19k
in 4 years, the game has lost 50% of players, and dropped to the numbers of 2018

Dude! You can't go back like that. It doesn't work that way.

Otherwise, I can then say:

October 2017
Avg. Players: 7,780
Peak Players: 13,825

October 2024:
Avg. Players: 10,748
Peak Players: 17,131

We gained 3k players, right?

It doesn't work that way.

...But saying they can't go back to get data is wrong.

It's wrong? You sure? Fine then. As per my post above going back to Oct. 2017, we have gained 3k players. Awesome!

You misunderstood my point I think. I wanted more data. The inference made with only two points of data implies that the 3k increase was linear. I think we both know that the truth is more happened over the course of that span of time than us evident with only two data points.

Steam does not know if the ESO player is actually playing ESO. At best, the Steam Charts numbers show how many people opened the launcher through Steam. No one cares about that metric. There is an assumed correlation between opening the launcher and actually playing the game, but it is not a 1:1. People can open the launcher through Steam and not play. Steam customers can play without opening the launcher from Steam. Over time, the mix can change. This change will be represented in the Steam Charts numbers, even if the people actually playing never changes.

Steam Charts is showing a downward trend in use of the ESO launcher between pre and post pandemic data points. Is that because fewer people are playing ESO, or is it because more people aren't using the launcher to play? A little of both?

I suggest that it means the possibility of a non-critical reduction in Steam customers playing ESO, which can be extrapolated to a similar size, non-critical, reduction in global player numbers across the entire game. In other words, the slope is negative, but it does not indicate the game is failing.

So you're questioning the statistical relevance and general applicability of the Steam chart numbers because it's *possible* to not just... use the Steam app and the game launcher in the usual, sane way? OK. You think people create specific launch scripts/icons to avoid using the launcher, and purposely miss making sure that they're on the latest version? OK. You think people just launch the launcher, and then let it sit there, and not play? OK. On purpose? OK. To screw with the Steam data? OK. I can't understand the thinking on any of this, but OK.

If you'll at least try you would easily guessed that some people could not close the launcher after the play and go about their business, some might boot it up for possible update/patch and let it run for infinite amount of time. A lot of steam users being doing so, it's nothing new.

About launching from the directory that's actually how some people who bought the game early could bypass steam issues with the game most of the time, newer ones can't. So some surely bypass steam check like that.

The game is in a bad state anyway, that's obvious to anyone playing more-less seriously for years to see the difference and observe different communities and how they have been moving away. Surely there's enough critical mass of players, but the critical mass of *dedicated* player's isn't there already probably, or close to that state.

Well, if you would at least try, you'd understand that Steam is counting players/plays, not hours, and it doesn't matter if someone leaves the launcher open after playing for this purpose. That's a "1", regardless.

I've been around since 2019. I've never had a problem with Steam or the launcher. If you want to pretend there's a statistically-significant problem with the launcher since before the influx during COVID, I guess that's your prerogative.

Aggrovious · October 8

SilverBride wrote: »

I am not going to derail into a discussion of what I personally like, and I can't speak for others about what they enjoy. All that matters is that there are a lot of players that still enjoy this game for whatever reasons and it is not dying.

It is appropriate for the thread that you involved yourself in.

SilverBride · October 8

Aggrovious wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I am not going to derail into a discussion of what I personally like, and I can't speak for others about what they enjoy. All that matters is that there are a lot of players that still enjoy this game for whatever reasons and it is not dying.

It is appropriate for the thread that you involved yourself in.

We are not in agreement so let's just agree to disagree.

Charon_on_Vacation · October 8

SilverBride wrote: »

Aggrovious wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

What makes me happy isn't the topic of this thread. The important thing is that many players are happy and are still playing, and this game is not dying.

Forums are designed to discuss topics. A lot of great points have been brought up that kill player retention.

You provided a general answer of players are happy, but you did not say what makes them happy.

I can tell you I am not happy with a lot of the changes and I am not happy with templar nerfs and set nerfs. Why? It ruins my gameplay.

I am not going to derail into a discussion of what I personally like, and I can't speak for others about what they enjoy. All that matters is that there are a lot of players that still enjoy this game for whatever reasons and it is not dying.

i am curious; how many players are a lot of players to you?
how many players are playing eso? what do you think?

WitchyKiki · October 8

I don't think this year is looking good for ESO, that doesn't mean I'm completely unhappy. Theres aspects of the game that still make me incredibly happy to login and play. That doesn't mean I can't voice what bothers me so that the game can have another healthy 10 years. Plenty of games that have gone on and on and on. I want ESO to do that as well.