Spawn camping in Cyro

Synapsis123

Joy_Division wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

It is especially frustrating that of all the terrible mechanics in Cyrodiil, when the one set in the game that minorly inconvenienced these groups with their dozen running Vigors, ZOS was quick to act when several organized group players complained - not even by adjusting the set, but removing it entirely from a PvP setting.

Quick to act? Azureblight was change back in July 2023 to its current iteration. Over a year is quick in your mind?

Joy_Division wrote: »

I sometimes play in a group and I find these mechanics utterly boring and not fun at all.

[snip]

Yes quick. ZOS has failed to deliver meaningful combat updates on key complaints such as PvP Necromancer and Templar performance and similar PvE complaints with Nightblades DPS. The same company who still has not completed its hybridization goal. Ever since update 35, ZOS has deliberately, publicly, and drastically slowed down its pace of combat changes.

Nowhere is this more apparent when it comes to Heal (and now shield) stacking, as these have been identified as problems in PvP years before Azureblight was changed. Zos has done nothing, not even offer communication regarding the many complaints about stacking HoTs and organized groups. The contrast which they responded to Azureblight complaints in a week two PTS update was striking.

Yes, nobody is forcing me to PvP. And most of the time, I don't. I only PvP once, at most twice, a week. And looking at how Cyrodiil can barely support a single server on PC/NA with a lower population cap than is the past, its clear that the problem expressed in this thread and the palpable frustration in posts such as #2 are widespread. But putting one's head in the sand has always been easier than addressing underlying issues

Even if they removed the ability for these groups to heal each other your unorganized group would still lose to them. The issue you are describing is organized vs unorganized. It doesn't have anything to do with game balance. If you aren't willing to put forth the effort to make an organized group you will continue to lose regardless of what combat changes ZOS makes.

[edited to remove quote]

Theist_VII

That’s rich.

The only thing difficult about forming a ball group is finding 11 other adults that all have the same free time.

Playing in a ball group is throwing on Snow Treaders to keep everyone together, and having players rotate their abilities while following lead, it’s that simple. You don’t need reaction time when you have 4-8 stacks of Radiating Regeneration and Vigor on you and someone throwing up Rapid Maneuvers every so often.

Let’s stop pretending it’s something it’s not now, okay?

RaidingTraiding

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I can remember being in a ball group before we had proc sets that stacked the enemy for you. Your crown had to use positioning and coordination to wipe another group in one fell swoop. The wayshrine stacks them almost as well as RA or DC.
Of course a ball group is more organized and that enables them to do what they do. Did it have to become much easier for them though? It's rare to see a whole ball get stacked & wiped by a solo, or small group. So these sets, whom do they serve?

Saruman?

These sets got aoe burst nerfed. Harmony, proxy det, and necro (I guess corrosive dk bombers too) were all nerfed as a result of pull sets. That took a lot of power from small group and solo bombers who could use those aoe bursts effectively, and now you hardly ever see them kill groups. Of course now the only ones who can effectively and consistently use these sets are ball groups. These pull sets are really unhealthy for the game, that's when I started noticing a large decrease in player pop. Whether that's the case or not, it certainly didn't help things.

Synapsis123

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I can remember being in a ball group before we had proc sets that stacked the enemy for you. Your crown had to use positioning and coordination to wipe another group in one fell swoop. The wayshrine stacks them almost as well as RA or DC.
Of course a ball group is more organized and that enables them to do what they do. Did it have to become much easier for them though? It's rare to see a whole ball get stacked & wiped by a solo, or small group. So these sets, whom do they serve?

Saruman?

These sets got aoe burst nerfed. Harmony, proxy det, and necro (I guess corrosive dk bombers too) were all nerfed as a result of pull sets. That took a lot of power from small group and solo bombers who could use those aoe bursts effectively, and now you hardly ever see them kill groups. Of course now the only ones who can effectively and consistently use these sets are ball groups. These pull sets are really unhealthy for the game, that's when I started noticing a large decrease in player pop. Whether that's the case or not, it certainly didn't help things.

There is obvious counterplay to every single one of the pull sets. You literally just have to hold block. If you see someone gap close in and turn red then hold block or even if you just see the ball group push into pugs. If you see a big circle with a purple bubble at the middle then hold block. If you can't adapt to the counterplay available then no amount of changes will help you.

Synapsis123

Theist_VII wrote: »

That’s rich.

The only thing difficult about forming a ball group is finding 11 other adults that all have the same free time.

Playing in a ball group is throwing on Snow Treaders to keep everyone together, and having players rotate their abilities while following lead, it’s that simple. You don’t need reaction time when you have 4-8 stacks of Radiating Regeneration and Vigor on you and someone throwing up Rapid Maneuvers every so often.

Let’s stop pretending it’s something it’s not now, okay?

If it was really that easy why isn't everyone doing it? Most nights I don't see a single ball group playing.

Theist_VII

Synapsis123 wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

That’s rich.

The only thing difficult about forming a ball group is finding 11 other adults that all have the same free time.

Playing in a ball group is throwing on Snow Treaders to keep everyone together, and having players rotate their abilities while following lead, it’s that simple. You don’t need reaction time when you have 4-8 stacks of Radiating Regeneration and Vigor on you and someone throwing up Rapid Maneuvers every so often.

Let’s stop pretending it’s something it’s not now, okay?

If it was really that easy why isn't everyone doing it? Most nights I don't see a single ball group playing.

“The only thing difficult about forming a ball group is finding 11 other adults that all have the same free time.”

“Let’s stop pretending it’s something it’s not now, okay?”

Stridig

Synapsis123 wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

That’s rich.

The only thing difficult about forming a ball group is finding 11 other adults that all have the same free time.

Playing in a ball group is throwing on Snow Treaders to keep everyone together, and having players rotate their abilities while following lead, it’s that simple. You don’t need reaction time when you have 4-8 stacks of Radiating Regeneration and Vigor on you and someone throwing up Rapid Maneuvers every so often.

Let’s stop pretending it’s something it’s not now, okay?

If it was really that easy why isn't everyone doing it? Most nights I don't see a single ball group playing.

Why isnt everyone doing it? Because it's frowned upon by the majority of people who play in Cyrodiil, it is considered one of the most toxic playstyles in the game, and the abuse of heal and shield stacking has helped push players away from Cyrodiil. It's bad for the game. That's why everyone isn't doing it. And before I hear any crap about "organized group", I'm not new. I know the difference between an organized group and a ball group. They are different things.

Edited for spelling

RaidingTraiding

Synapsis123 wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I can remember being in a ball group before we had proc sets that stacked the enemy for you. Your crown had to use positioning and coordination to wipe another group in one fell swoop. The wayshrine stacks them almost as well as RA or DC.
Of course a ball group is more organized and that enables them to do what they do. Did it have to become much easier for them though? It's rare to see a whole ball get stacked & wiped by a solo, or small group. So these sets, whom do they serve?

Saruman?

These sets got aoe burst nerfed. Harmony, proxy det, and necro (I guess corrosive dk bombers too) were all nerfed as a result of pull sets. That took a lot of power from small group and solo bombers who could use those aoe bursts effectively, and now you hardly ever see them kill groups. Of course now the only ones who can effectively and consistently use these sets are ball groups. These pull sets are really unhealthy for the game, that's when I started noticing a large decrease in player pop. Whether that's the case or not, it certainly didn't help things.

There is obvious counterplay to every single one of the pull sets. You literally just have to hold block. If you see someone gap close in and turn red then hold block or even if you just see the ball group push into pugs. If you see a big circle with a purple bubble at the middle then hold block. If you can't adapt to the counterplay available then no amount of changes will help you.

I would only say there's obvious counterplay to DC, which is hardly used now. Rush got a buff in range so now you can get pulled from way out of your camera view. There isn't a visual cue like DC has, and if it's laggy block doesn't work half the time. Not to mention an 8 second cool down with decent damage also. And the biggest issue is it doesn't obey immunity rules so you can yo yo people if you have more than 1 pull set. I've had this done to me and done this to people. it's not really fair either way. The main point I was making was that it made bombing too trivial which led to the nerf of a lot of burst aoe which hurt a lot of solo and small group play. It also dumbed down ball grouping to a degree. Groups before would have to know how to kite and bait players to chokes better, now you have choke points on demand.

The defensive and condescending attitude makes it seem like you're a user of this set, seeing as the main point of my comment wasn't to cry about the lack of counterplay. Any decent group doesn't need to crutch on this set to get kills, my problem was it indirectly nerfed things that solo and small groups used to fight larger groups who have more sets and players, therefore naturally more damage at their disposal.

Joy_Division

Synapsis123 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

It is especially frustrating that of all the terrible mechanics in Cyrodiil, when the one set in the game that minorly inconvenienced these groups with their dozen running Vigors, ZOS was quick to act when several organized group players complained - not even by adjusting the set, but removing it entirely from a PvP setting.

Quick to act? Azureblight was change back in July 2023 to its current iteration. Over a year is quick in your mind?

Joy_Division wrote: »

I sometimes play in a group and I find these mechanics utterly boring and not fun at all.

[snip]

Yes quick. ZOS has failed to deliver meaningful combat updates on key complaints such as PvP Necromancer and Templar performance and similar PvE complaints with Nightblades DPS. The same company who still has not completed its hybridization goal. Ever since update 35, ZOS has deliberately, publicly, and drastically slowed down its pace of combat changes.

Nowhere is this more apparent when it comes to Heal (and now shield) stacking, as these have been identified as problems in PvP years before Azureblight was changed. Zos has done nothing, not even offer communication regarding the many complaints about stacking HoTs and organized groups. The contrast which they responded to Azureblight complaints in a week two PTS update was striking.

Yes, nobody is forcing me to PvP. And most of the time, I don't. I only PvP once, at most twice, a week. And looking at how Cyrodiil can barely support a single server on PC/NA with a lower population cap than is the past, its clear that the problem expressed in this thread and the palpable frustration in posts such as #2 are widespread. But putting one's head in the sand has always been easier than addressing underlying issues

Even if they removed the ability for these groups to heal each other your unorganized group would still lose to them. The issue you are describing is organized vs unorganized. It doesn't have anything to do with game balance. If you aren't willing to put forth the effort to make an organized group you will continue to lose regardless of what combat changes ZOS makes.

[edited to remove quote]

Then these groups have nothing to fear from so many HoTs stacking and should agree with the feedback/criticism of this mechanic so they can demonstrate how organized and good they are.

gronoxvx

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I can remember being in a ball group before we had proc sets that stacked the enemy for you. Your crown had to use positioning and coordination to wipe another group in one fell swoop. The wayshrine stacks them almost as well as RA or DC.
Of course a ball group is more organized and that enables them to do what they do. Did it have to become much easier for them though? It's rare to see a whole ball get stacked & wiped by a solo, or small group. So these sets, whom do they serve?

Saruman?

These sets got aoe burst nerfed. Harmony, proxy det, and necro (I guess corrosive dk bombers too) were all nerfed as a result of pull sets. That took a lot of power from small group and solo bombers who could use those aoe bursts effectively, and now you hardly ever see them kill groups. Of course now the only ones who can effectively and consistently use these sets are ball groups. These pull sets are really unhealthy for the game, that's when I started noticing a large decrease in player pop. Whether that's the case or not, it certainly didn't help things.

There is obvious counterplay to every single one of the pull sets. You literally just have to hold block. If you see someone gap close in and turn red then hold block or even if you just see the ball group push into pugs. If you see a big circle with a purple bubble at the middle then hold block. If you can't adapt to the counterplay available then no amount of changes will help you.

I would only say there's obvious counterplay to DC, which is hardly used now. Rush got a buff in range so now you can get pulled from way out of your camera view. There isn't a visual cue like DC has, and if it's laggy block doesn't work half the time. Not to mention an 8 second cool down with decent damage also. And the biggest issue is it doesn't obey immunity rules so you can yo yo people if you have more than 1 pull set. I've had this done to me and done this to people. it's not really fair either way. The main point I was making was that it made bombing too trivial which led to the nerf of a lot of burst aoe which hurt a lot of solo and small group play. It also dumbed down ball grouping to a degree. Groups before would have to know how to kite and bait players to chokes better, now you have choke points on demand.

The defensive and condescending attitude makes it seem like you're a user of this set, seeing as the main point of my comment wasn't to cry about the lack of counterplay. Any decent group doesn't need to crutch on this set to get kills, my problem was it indirectly nerfed things that solo and small groups used to fight larger groups who have more sets and players, therefore naturally more damage at their disposal.

The visual cue for rush is a chain attaching to you similar to the DK chain. So its easily seen and can be blocked.

blktauna

gronoxvx wrote: »

The visual cue for rush is a chain attaching to you similar to the DK chain. So its easily seen and can be blocked.

my lag and frames have not yet let me see this cue. And block is also extremely iffy.

Iriidius

Synapsis123 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

It is especially frustrating that of all the terrible mechanics in Cyrodiil, when the one set in the game that minorly inconvenienced these groups with their dozen running Vigors, ZOS was quick to act when several organized group players complained - not even by adjusting the set, but removing it entirely from a PvP setting.

Quick to act? Azureblight was change back in July 2023 to its current iteration. Over a year is quick in your mind?

Joy_Division wrote: »

I sometimes play in a group and I find these mechanics utterly boring and not fun at all.

[snip]

Yes quick. ZOS has failed to deliver meaningful combat updates on key complaints such as PvP Necromancer and Templar performance and similar PvE complaints with Nightblades DPS. The same company who still has not completed its hybridization goal. Ever since update 35, ZOS has deliberately, publicly, and drastically slowed down its pace of combat changes.

Nowhere is this more apparent when it comes to Heal (and now shield) stacking, as these have been identified as problems in PvP years before Azureblight was changed. Zos has done nothing, not even offer communication regarding the many complaints about stacking HoTs and organized groups. The contrast which they responded to Azureblight complaints in a week two PTS update was striking.

Yes, nobody is forcing me to PvP. And most of the time, I don't. I only PvP once, at most twice, a week. And looking at how Cyrodiil can barely support a single server on PC/NA with a lower population cap than is the past, its clear that the problem expressed in this thread and the palpable frustration in posts such as #2 are widespread. But putting one's head in the sand has always been easier than addressing underlying issues

Even if they removed the ability for these groups to heal each other your unorganized group would still lose to them. The issue you are describing is organized vs unorganized. It doesn't have anything to do with game balance. If you aren't willing to put forth the effort to make an organized group you will continue to lose regardless of what combat changes ZOS makes.

[edited to remove quote]

So because an unorganized group would still loose to an organized group in 12v12 if they removed crosshealing it would make no difference? It makes the difference between a ballgroup farming 40 players and a ballgroup dying to 20.
Maybe we should also not nerf nb and not buff necro because a bad necro player would still loose to a good nb.
And you cant tell me that a ballgroup farming everyone outnumbered and surviving getting hit by multiple bombers and coldfire that would kill every other player doesnt have anything to do with 12 echoing vigor, 6 radiating regen, shieldstacking, maneuver skill, buffskills of every class and dozens of extra setboni from group. If I had all the effekts a ballgroup player gives to or gets from his group as a solo player I could 1vX players much better than me.

Iriidius

Synapsis123 wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I can remember being in a ball group before we had proc sets that stacked the enemy for you. Your crown had to use positioning and coordination to wipe another group in one fell swoop. The wayshrine stacks them almost as well as RA or DC.
Of course a ball group is more organized and that enables them to do what they do. Did it have to become much easier for them though? It's rare to see a whole ball get stacked & wiped by a solo, or small group. So these sets, whom do they serve?

Saruman?

These sets got aoe burst nerfed. Harmony, proxy det, and necro (I guess corrosive dk bombers too) were all nerfed as a result of pull sets. That took a lot of power from small group and solo bombers who could use those aoe bursts effectively, and now you hardly ever see them kill groups. Of course now the only ones who can effectively and consistently use these sets are ball groups. These pull sets are really unhealthy for the game, that's when I started noticing a large decrease in player pop. Whether that's the case or not, it certainly didn't help things.

There is obvious counterplay to every single one of the pull sets. You literally just have to hold block. If you see someone gap close in and turn red then hold block or even if you just see the ball group push into pugs. If you see a big circle with a purple bubble at the middle then hold block. If you can't adapt to the counterplay available then no amount of changes will help you.

If you block pull sets you are moving slower and still standing in their bomb area when they bomb and get killed while blocking or after they remove your block with unblockable fear stun.

LittlePinkDot

Cyrodiil by it's nature is "ball groups." It's supposed to be giant wars like the battle between the Orcs and the elves of Eregion in Rings of power 😆.
It's meant to be group vs group. Not even Sauron goes onto the battlefield by himself.

If you want less people with equal numbers for each team, play battlegrounds.

RaidingTraiding

gronoxvx wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I can remember being in a ball group before we had proc sets that stacked the enemy for you. Your crown had to use positioning and coordination to wipe another group in one fell swoop. The wayshrine stacks them almost as well as RA or DC.
Of course a ball group is more organized and that enables them to do what they do. Did it have to become much easier for them though? It's rare to see a whole ball get stacked & wiped by a solo, or small group. So these sets, whom do they serve?

Saruman?

These sets got aoe burst nerfed. Harmony, proxy det, and necro (I guess corrosive dk bombers too) were all nerfed as a result of pull sets. That took a lot of power from small group and solo bombers who could use those aoe bursts effectively, and now you hardly ever see them kill groups. Of course now the only ones who can effectively and consistently use these sets are ball groups. These pull sets are really unhealthy for the game, that's when I started noticing a large decrease in player pop. Whether that's the case or not, it certainly didn't help things.

There is obvious counterplay to every single one of the pull sets. You literally just have to hold block. If you see someone gap close in and turn red then hold block or even if you just see the ball group push into pugs. If you see a big circle with a purple bubble at the middle then hold block. If you can't adapt to the counterplay available then no amount of changes will help you.

I would only say there's obvious counterplay to DC, which is hardly used now. Rush got a buff in range so now you can get pulled from way out of your camera view. There isn't a visual cue like DC has, and if it's laggy block doesn't work half the time. Not to mention an 8 second cool down with decent damage also. And the biggest issue is it doesn't obey immunity rules so you can yo yo people if you have more than 1 pull set. I've had this done to me and done this to people. it's not really fair either way. The main point I was making was that it made bombing too trivial which led to the nerf of a lot of burst aoe which hurt a lot of solo and small group play. It also dumbed down ball grouping to a degree. Groups before would have to know how to kite and bait players to chokes better, now you have choke points on demand.

The defensive and condescending attitude makes it seem like you're a user of this set, seeing as the main point of my comment wasn't to cry about the lack of counterplay. Any decent group doesn't need to crutch on this set to get kills, my problem was it indirectly nerfed things that solo and small groups used to fight larger groups who have more sets and players, therefore naturally more damage at their disposal.

The visual cue for rush is a chain attaching to you similar to the DK chain. So its easily seen and can be blocked.

It's not really a visual cue if it happens as you're getting pulled in. And in many cases as others have said, it's laggy and there's already a ton of effects going on so no, it's not easily seen. Also as others have said blocking slows you so you will likely be stuck in the bomb area anyways, and on top of that rush is almost always followed up with an unblockable fear. I mean I get it, some people would prefer to have cheap easy kills with no counterplay. From my experience running it a lot, I would say around 90% of people won't escape it. So much for being easily countered. If it really was then no one would be using it. DC is much more telegraphed and has a very reasonable cooldown of 25 seconds. Because you can avoid it better you don't see it used as often, especially not from ball groups.

Iriidius

Jestir wrote: »

I seriously don't understand the "nerf ball groups" mindset

I get shield and heal stacking being an issue, random cross healing even gives solo players a level of survivability that they shouldnt be able to obtain

But why on earth wouldn't an organized group that coordinates builds and actually plays together while strategizing and making call outs in a voice chat dominate?

I absolutely don't understand why those who are playing the game at the highest level in a group setting, in an environment built around doing so, should be punished.

I really just don't get it, and I'm 200% with ZOS on just ignoring all this whining.

On the topic of spawn camping, tale as old as competitive gaming, the game systems need to do their best to prevent that or any player capable of is going to take advantage of it.

Ballgroups dominating by coordinating builds and playing together gets artificially increased by group multitarget sets and skills giving an effekt as strong as a single target set/skill not only to the user but for free to multiple/all group mates.
Reducing/removing this free effekts is not punishing ballgroups but reducing/stopping the overrewarding of ballgroups.
You call players critizising ballgroups whiners but ballgroupler whined bitterly themselve when they got killed and to not get ignored pretended to be solo/smallscale players killed by azureblight asking for azureblight nerfs in the name of solo/smallscale players.
For ballgroups it is normal to farm 30 PuGs without dying once in a 2-3 hour raid and everything preventing them is OP.
7 player azureblight groups killing ballgroups are seen as OP despite playing together and coordinating builds like a ballgroup and beeing more spezialized/niche and less outnumbered than the ballgroup farming 20+ PuGs.

Iriidius

Synapsis123 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

It is especially frustrating that of all the terrible mechanics in Cyrodiil, when the one set in the game that minorly inconvenienced these groups with their dozen running Vigors, ZOS was quick to act when several organized group players complained - not even by adjusting the set, but removing it entirely from a PvP setting.

Quick to act? Azureblight was change back in July 2023 to its current iteration. Over a year is quick in your mind?

Joy_Division wrote: »

I sometimes play in a group and I find these mechanics utterly boring and not fun at all.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

But the big azureblight complain thread(s) in forum started only a few weeks ago and ZOS nerfed it in the next update

Synapsis123

Iriidius wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

It is especially frustrating that of all the terrible mechanics in Cyrodiil, when the one set in the game that minorly inconvenienced these groups with their dozen running Vigors, ZOS was quick to act when several organized group players complained - not even by adjusting the set, but removing it entirely from a PvP setting.

Quick to act? Azureblight was change back in July 2023 to its current iteration. Over a year is quick in your mind?

Joy_Division wrote: »

I sometimes play in a group and I find these mechanics utterly boring and not fun at all.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

But the big azureblight complain thread(s) in forum started only a few weeks ago and ZOS nerfed it in the next update

Do you have some proof that it was nerfed directly because of that thread?

TechMaybeHic

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Cyrodiil by it's nature is "ball groups." It's supposed to be giant wars like the battle between the Orcs and the elves of Eregion in Rings of power 😆.
It's meant to be group vs group. Not even Sauron goes onto the battlefield by himself.

If you want less people with equal numbers for each team, play battlegrounds.

I think you misunderstand the difference between ball group and large groups. Group can also be somewhat organized and not necessarily be a ball group

Synapsis123

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

gronoxvx wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I can remember being in a ball group before we had proc sets that stacked the enemy for you. Your crown had to use positioning and coordination to wipe another group in one fell swoop. The wayshrine stacks them almost as well as RA or DC.
Of course a ball group is more organized and that enables them to do what they do. Did it have to become much easier for them though? It's rare to see a whole ball get stacked & wiped by a solo, or small group. So these sets, whom do they serve?

Saruman?

These sets got aoe burst nerfed. Harmony, proxy det, and necro (I guess corrosive dk bombers too) were all nerfed as a result of pull sets. That took a lot of power from small group and solo bombers who could use those aoe bursts effectively, and now you hardly ever see them kill groups. Of course now the only ones who can effectively and consistently use these sets are ball groups. These pull sets are really unhealthy for the game, that's when I started noticing a large decrease in player pop. Whether that's the case or not, it certainly didn't help things.

There is obvious counterplay to every single one of the pull sets. You literally just have to hold block. If you see someone gap close in and turn red then hold block or even if you just see the ball group push into pugs. If you see a big circle with a purple bubble at the middle then hold block. If you can't adapt to the counterplay available then no amount of changes will help you.

I would only say there's obvious counterplay to DC, which is hardly used now. Rush got a buff in range so now you can get pulled from way out of your camera view. There isn't a visual cue like DC has, and if it's laggy block doesn't work half the time. Not to mention an 8 second cool down with decent damage also. And the biggest issue is it doesn't obey immunity rules so you can yo yo people if you have more than 1 pull set. I've had this done to me and done this to people. it's not really fair either way. The main point I was making was that it made bombing too trivial which led to the nerf of a lot of burst aoe which hurt a lot of solo and small group play. It also dumbed down ball grouping to a degree. Groups before would have to know how to kite and bait players to chokes better, now you have choke points on demand.

The defensive and condescending attitude makes it seem like you're a user of this set, seeing as the main point of my comment wasn't to cry about the lack of counterplay. Any decent group doesn't need to crutch on this set to get kills, my problem was it indirectly nerfed things that solo and small groups used to fight larger groups who have more sets and players, therefore naturally more damage at their disposal.

The visual cue for rush is a chain attaching to you similar to the DK chain. So its easily seen and can be blocked.

It's not really a visual cue if it happens as you're getting pulled in. And in many cases as others have said, it's laggy and there's already a ton of effects going on so no, it's not easily seen. Also as others have said blocking slows you so you will likely be stuck in the bomb area anyways, and on top of that rush is almost always followed up with an unblockable fear. I mean I get it, some people would prefer to have cheap easy kills with no counterplay. From my experience running it a lot, I would say around 90% of people won't escape it. So much for being easily countered. If it really was then no one would be using it. DC is much more telegraphed and has a very reasonable cooldown of 25 seconds. Because you can avoid it better you don't see it used as often, especially not from ball groups.

It seems you are having trouble blocking obviously telegraphed abilities and sets. To improve your PvP skills, especially regarding blocking and the rush of agony set, consider these resources:

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/16xqis1/basic_pvp_guide/
Basic PVP Guide: This guide covers the fundamentals of PvP, including the importance of having a dedicated PvP build and understanding different PvP modes like Battlegrounds and Cyrodiil. It emphasizes the need for burst damage and effective potion use to enhance survivability.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AHyy7A79cQ
New Player PVP Guide: A concise video guide that discusses essential tips for beginners, including build recommendations and strategies for improving your gameplay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nzQYR0a6rc
How to Sustain in PvP: This video focuses on sustaining resources during PvP encounters, which is crucial for maintaining your effectiveness in battle.

forum_gpt

Synapsis123 wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

gronoxvx wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I can remember being in a ball group before we had proc sets that stacked the enemy for you. Your crown had to use positioning and coordination to wipe another group in one fell swoop. The wayshrine stacks them almost as well as RA or DC.
Of course a ball group is more organized and that enables them to do what they do. Did it have to become much easier for them though? It's rare to see a whole ball get stacked & wiped by a solo, or small group. So these sets, whom do they serve?

Saruman?

These sets got aoe burst nerfed. Harmony, proxy det, and necro (I guess corrosive dk bombers too) were all nerfed as a result of pull sets. That took a lot of power from small group and solo bombers who could use those aoe bursts effectively, and now you hardly ever see them kill groups. Of course now the only ones who can effectively and consistently use these sets are ball groups. These pull sets are really unhealthy for the game, that's when I started noticing a large decrease in player pop. Whether that's the case or not, it certainly didn't help things.

There is obvious counterplay to every single one of the pull sets. You literally just have to hold block. If you see someone gap close in and turn red then hold block or even if you just see the ball group push into pugs. If you see a big circle with a purple bubble at the middle then hold block. If you can't adapt to the counterplay available then no amount of changes will help you.

I would only say there's obvious counterplay to DC, which is hardly used now. Rush got a buff in range so now you can get pulled from way out of your camera view. There isn't a visual cue like DC has, and if it's laggy block doesn't work half the time. Not to mention an 8 second cool down with decent damage also. And the biggest issue is it doesn't obey immunity rules so you can yo yo people if you have more than 1 pull set. I've had this done to me and done this to people. it's not really fair either way. The main point I was making was that it made bombing too trivial which led to the nerf of a lot of burst aoe which hurt a lot of solo and small group play. It also dumbed down ball grouping to a degree. Groups before would have to know how to kite and bait players to chokes better, now you have choke points on demand.

The defensive and condescending attitude makes it seem like you're a user of this set, seeing as the main point of my comment wasn't to cry about the lack of counterplay. Any decent group doesn't need to crutch on this set to get kills, my problem was it indirectly nerfed things that solo and small groups used to fight larger groups who have more sets and players, therefore naturally more damage at their disposal.

The visual cue for rush is a chain attaching to you similar to the DK chain. So its easily seen and can be blocked.

It's not really a visual cue if it happens as you're getting pulled in. And in many cases as others have said, it's laggy and there's already a ton of effects going on so no, it's not easily seen. Also as others have said blocking slows you so you will likely be stuck in the bomb area anyways, and on top of that rush is almost always followed up with an unblockable fear. I mean I get it, some people would prefer to have cheap easy kills with no counterplay. From my experience running it a lot, I would say around 90% of people won't escape it. So much for being easily countered. If it really was then no one would be using it. DC is much more telegraphed and has a very reasonable cooldown of 25 seconds. Because you can avoid it better you don't see it used as often, especially not from ball groups.

It seems you are having trouble blocking obviously telegraphed abilities and sets. To improve your PvP skills, especially regarding blocking and the rush of agony set, consider these resources:

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/16xqis1/basic_pvp_guide/
Basic PVP Guide: This guide covers the fundamentals of PvP, including the importance of having a dedicated PvP build and understanding different PvP modes like Battlegrounds and Cyrodiil. It emphasizes the need for burst damage and effective potion use to enhance survivability.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AHyy7A79cQ
New Player PVP Guide: A concise video guide that discusses essential tips for beginners, including build recommendations and strategies for improving your gameplay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nzQYR0a6rc
How to Sustain in PvP: This video focuses on sustaining resources during PvP encounters, which is crucial for maintaining your effectiveness in battle.

I appreciate the resources, and it's always good to brush up on PvP fundamentals. Understanding blocking, countering sets like Rush of Agony, and refining overall gameplay can only help improve performance. Thanks for sharing these guides! I'll check them out.

Iriidius

LordeGian wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

It´s not about "being punished", it´s that group play is way too rewarding for how little effort it takes.

If it's no effort, then why don't you set up your ballgroup and do the same? Try forming a coordinated group with 12 people who are willing to do it and learn the mechanics and achieve the harmony that a team that has been playing for years has acquired, then you can tell me if it's really easy. This is certainly something that uncommitted players think about.

Synapsis123 wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

That’s rich.

The only thing difficult about forming a ball group is finding 11 other adults that all have the same free time.

Playing in a ball group is throwing on Snow Treaders to keep everyone together, and having players rotate their abilities while following lead, it’s that simple. You don’t need reaction time when you have 4-8 stacks of Radiating Regeneration and Vigor on you and someone throwing up Rapid Maneuvers every so often.

Let’s stop pretending it’s something it’s not now, okay?

If it was really that easy why isn't everyone doing it? Most nights I don't see a single ball group playing.

Maybe most players do not have 11 friends with same free time interested to form a ballgroup. Somehow it is expected that players can get as many friends as they want doing exactly what they want them to do whenever they want.
Most groups of 6 or more players regularely playing together with a minimum of game knowledge will usually form into a ballgroup or something similar.

Dont know where you play but on Grey Host PC EU there were usually multiple ballgroups on every faction or something like the Daggerfall Authority, a 30 man zerg guild with multiple groups using healstacking and groupbuff-sets/skills.

Most PvP players disliking ballgroups also do not want to form a ballgroup because they do reject ballgroups out of conviction and do not want to become a part of the problem, not because they want to join one themselve and are unable to do it.

Iriidius

Synapsis123 wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

It is especially frustrating that of all the terrible mechanics in Cyrodiil, when the one set in the game that minorly inconvenienced these groups with their dozen running Vigors, ZOS was quick to act when several organized group players complained - not even by adjusting the set, but removing it entirely from a PvP setting.

Quick to act? Azureblight was change back in July 2023 to its current iteration. Over a year is quick in your mind?

Joy_Division wrote: »

I sometimes play in a group and I find these mechanics utterly boring and not fun at all.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

But the big azureblight complain thread(s) in forum started only a few weeks ago and ZOS nerfed it in the next update

Do you have some proof that it was nerfed directly because of that thread?

ZoS never states what exactly was the cause for them to nerf something and their reasons are usually unreliable and often nonsense. But I cant remember seeing any popular nerf azureblight discussions before last few weeks and if noone makes the effort to create a discussion or agree to a nerf azureblight request than it doesnt seems to be a problem or like many players are interested in nerfing it and there is no reason to nerf it. What should they have acted too? Probably too few people used it back then.
Even now Azureblightnerf is supported only by a vocal minority spreading false information like azureblight beeing effektive against solo players

Iriidius

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Cyrodiil by it's nature is "ball groups." It's supposed to be giant wars like the battle between the Orcs and the elves of Eregion in Rings of power 😆.
It's meant to be group vs group. Not even Sauron goes onto the battlefield by himself.

If you want less people with equal numbers for each team, play battlegrounds.

Battle of Eregion is more like a Zerg versus Zerg fight, there are no formations like phalanx/shieldwall and especially no crosshealing, everyone runs crisscross.
Sauron and other character are fighting by themselve and not as part of a formation
althought usually not completely alone but nobody here asked to solo a ballgroup without any allies.

ZoS PvP trailer also shows players in single fights against each other on a battlefield or ZergvZerg fights but I do not see anything like a ballgroup there. Big fights look more expressive and make better advertising in trailer but if you have to search all the people for a group yourself and coordinate them it is not more fun anymore. And Cyrodiil and groups had 10*higher pop lock and 2*bigger size when these trailers were made and PuGs existed.

Iriidius

Synapsis123 wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

gronoxvx wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I can remember being in a ball group before we had proc sets that stacked the enemy for you. Your crown had to use positioning and coordination to wipe another group in one fell swoop. The wayshrine stacks them almost as well as RA or DC.
Of course a ball group is more organized and that enables them to do what they do. Did it have to become much easier for them though? It's rare to see a whole ball get stacked & wiped by a solo, or small group. So these sets, whom do they serve?

Saruman?

These sets got aoe burst nerfed. Harmony, proxy det, and necro (I guess corrosive dk bombers too) were all nerfed as a result of pull sets. That took a lot of power from small group and solo bombers who could use those aoe bursts effectively, and now you hardly ever see them kill groups. Of course now the only ones who can effectively and consistently use these sets are ball groups. These pull sets are really unhealthy for the game, that's when I started noticing a large decrease in player pop. Whether that's the case or not, it certainly didn't help things.

There is obvious counterplay to every single one of the pull sets. You literally just have to hold block. If you see someone gap close in and turn red then hold block or even if you just see the ball group push into pugs. If you see a big circle with a purple bubble at the middle then hold block. If you can't adapt to the counterplay available then no amount of changes will help you.

I would only say there's obvious counterplay to DC, which is hardly used now. Rush got a buff in range so now you can get pulled from way out of your camera view. There isn't a visual cue like DC has, and if it's laggy block doesn't work half the time. Not to mention an 8 second cool down with decent damage also. And the biggest issue is it doesn't obey immunity rules so you can yo yo people if you have more than 1 pull set. I've had this done to me and done this to people. it's not really fair either way. The main point I was making was that it made bombing too trivial which led to the nerf of a lot of burst aoe which hurt a lot of solo and small group play. It also dumbed down ball grouping to a degree. Groups before would have to know how to kite and bait players to chokes better, now you have choke points on demand.

The defensive and condescending attitude makes it seem like you're a user of this set, seeing as the main point of my comment wasn't to cry about the lack of counterplay. Any decent group doesn't need to crutch on this set to get kills, my problem was it indirectly nerfed things that solo and small groups used to fight larger groups who have more sets and players, therefore naturally more damage at their disposal.

The visual cue for rush is a chain attaching to you similar to the DK chain. So its easily seen and can be blocked.

It's not really a visual cue if it happens as you're getting pulled in. And in many cases as others have said, it's laggy and there's already a ton of effects going on so no, it's not easily seen. Also as others have said blocking slows you so you will likely be stuck in the bomb area anyways, and on top of that rush is almost always followed up with an unblockable fear. I mean I get it, some people would prefer to have cheap easy kills with no counterplay. From my experience running it a lot, I would say around 90% of people won't escape it. So much for being easily countered. If it really was then no one would be using it. DC is much more telegraphed and has a very reasonable cooldown of 25 seconds. Because you can avoid it better you don't see it used as often, especially not from ball groups.

It seems you are having trouble blocking obviously telegraphed abilities and sets. To improve your PvP skills, especially regarding blocking and the rush of agony set, consider these resources:

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/16xqis1/basic_pvp_guide/
Basic PVP Guide: This guide covers the fundamentals of PvP, including the importance of having a dedicated PvP build and understanding different PvP modes like Battlegrounds and Cyrodiil. It emphasizes the need for burst damage and effective potion use to enhance survivability.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AHyy7A79cQ
New Player PVP Guide: A concise video guide that discusses essential tips for beginners, including build recommendations and strategies for improving your gameplay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nzQYR0a6rc
How to Sustain in PvP: This video focuses on sustaining resources during PvP encounters, which is crucial for maintaining your effectiveness in battle.

Nice to send RaidingTraining a beginner guide like he is inept beginner for not blocking RoA in heavy lag and effect chaos when blocking probably still gets him killed. Like fighting ballgroups is easy to learn basic thing and not something everyone except other ballgroups usually fails or avoid, even the best solo/smallscale. Shows what arrogant guys most ballgroups are. If you go into Cyrodiil wearing viable but not meta build following beginer guide correctly fighting people who know what they do you will probably still loose every single fight as people with meta builds will just overwhelm you.

Synapsis123

Iriidius wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

gronoxvx wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I can remember being in a ball group before we had proc sets that stacked the enemy for you. Your crown had to use positioning and coordination to wipe another group in one fell swoop. The wayshrine stacks them almost as well as RA or DC.
Of course a ball group is more organized and that enables them to do what they do. Did it have to become much easier for them though? It's rare to see a whole ball get stacked & wiped by a solo, or small group. So these sets, whom do they serve?

Saruman?

These sets got aoe burst nerfed. Harmony, proxy det, and necro (I guess corrosive dk bombers too) were all nerfed as a result of pull sets. That took a lot of power from small group and solo bombers who could use those aoe bursts effectively, and now you hardly ever see them kill groups. Of course now the only ones who can effectively and consistently use these sets are ball groups. These pull sets are really unhealthy for the game, that's when I started noticing a large decrease in player pop. Whether that's the case or not, it certainly didn't help things.

There is obvious counterplay to every single one of the pull sets. You literally just have to hold block. If you see someone gap close in and turn red then hold block or even if you just see the ball group push into pugs. If you see a big circle with a purple bubble at the middle then hold block. If you can't adapt to the counterplay available then no amount of changes will help you.

I would only say there's obvious counterplay to DC, which is hardly used now. Rush got a buff in range so now you can get pulled from way out of your camera view. There isn't a visual cue like DC has, and if it's laggy block doesn't work half the time. Not to mention an 8 second cool down with decent damage also. And the biggest issue is it doesn't obey immunity rules so you can yo yo people if you have more than 1 pull set. I've had this done to me and done this to people. it's not really fair either way. The main point I was making was that it made bombing too trivial which led to the nerf of a lot of burst aoe which hurt a lot of solo and small group play. It also dumbed down ball grouping to a degree. Groups before would have to know how to kite and bait players to chokes better, now you have choke points on demand.

The defensive and condescending attitude makes it seem like you're a user of this set, seeing as the main point of my comment wasn't to cry about the lack of counterplay. Any decent group doesn't need to crutch on this set to get kills, my problem was it indirectly nerfed things that solo and small groups used to fight larger groups who have more sets and players, therefore naturally more damage at their disposal.

The visual cue for rush is a chain attaching to you similar to the DK chain. So its easily seen and can be blocked.

It's not really a visual cue if it happens as you're getting pulled in. And in many cases as others have said, it's laggy and there's already a ton of effects going on so no, it's not easily seen. Also as others have said blocking slows you so you will likely be stuck in the bomb area anyways, and on top of that rush is almost always followed up with an unblockable fear. I mean I get it, some people would prefer to have cheap easy kills with no counterplay. From my experience running it a lot, I would say around 90% of people won't escape it. So much for being easily countered. If it really was then no one would be using it. DC is much more telegraphed and has a very reasonable cooldown of 25 seconds. Because you can avoid it better you don't see it used as often, especially not from ball groups.

It seems you are having trouble blocking obviously telegraphed abilities and sets. To improve your PvP skills, especially regarding blocking and the rush of agony set, consider these resources:

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/16xqis1/basic_pvp_guide/
Basic PVP Guide: This guide covers the fundamentals of PvP, including the importance of having a dedicated PvP build and understanding different PvP modes like Battlegrounds and Cyrodiil. It emphasizes the need for burst damage and effective potion use to enhance survivability.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AHyy7A79cQ
New Player PVP Guide: A concise video guide that discusses essential tips for beginners, including build recommendations and strategies for improving your gameplay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nzQYR0a6rc
How to Sustain in PvP: This video focuses on sustaining resources during PvP encounters, which is crucial for maintaining your effectiveness in battle.

Nice to send RaidingTraining a beginner guide like he is inept beginner for not blocking RoA in heavy lag and effect chaos when blocking probably still gets him killed. Like fighting ballgroups is easy to learn basic thing and not something everyone except other ballgroups usually fails or avoid, even the best solo/smallscale. Shows what arrogant guys most ballgroups are. If you go into Cyrodiil wearing viable but not meta build following beginer guide correctly fighting people who know what they do you will probably still loose every single fight as people with meta builds will just overwhelm you.

While you suggest that sending beginner guides is condescending, I actually think they can be quite valuable, even for experienced players. Sometimes a fresh perspective from a basic guide can remind us of fundamentals we might have overlooked.

Regarding your comment about "viable but not meta builds," I'd argue that the meta isn't as restrictive as you imply. There's actually quite a bit of build diversity that can be effective in Cyrodiil. It's more about skill and strategy than strictly adhering to the meta.

SeaGtGruff

CatoUnchained wrote: »

gronoxvx wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

The problem is that some of these ballgroup leads are streamers.ZOS won't touch them because they make the game look good and interesting from their perspective.

Ummm. Way more pvers stream than pvpers so it would make way more sense for zos to cater to the larger streaming population compared to a handful of pvpers who stream.

Prior to U35 most ESO streamers were PvP exclusive for the most part. The vast majority of ESO streamers used to focus almost entirely on PvP because, let's face it, PvE is pretty boring.

That does not fit my observations. Prior to U35 there were a lot of ESO players streaming PvE content. They fell into different categories-- players streaming zone storyline quests, players streaming WB fights and other zone dailies, players streaming group dungeons, players streaming trials and arenas, and of course players streaming housing and outfitting. Yes, there were also players who streamed PvP exclusively, but they didn't make up the bulk of the ESO streaming community as far as I saw.

The_Meathead

Synapsis123 wrote: »

[ Most nights I don't see a single ball group playing.

Then I'm not sure what game or server you're playing.

There's not a single night on PC-NA that I don't see at least 2-3 Ball Groups on opposing Factions, when I'm able to play. I avoid them as much as possible while still being very involved in larger objectives, but they're a huge factor during prime time hours on Blackreach and Grey Host both.

I could join one easily enough, but tbh the gameplay looks boring, tedious, and lopsided. Those are three things I don't pursue in my own time for hobbies. Winning of course feels good, but there's a point where your autonomy is so limited it doesn't even count.

You seem to be pushing that "organized" is the same thing as "mechanically imbalanced," and it's not.

Iriidius

Synapsis123 wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

gronoxvx wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I can remember being in a ball group before we had proc sets that stacked the enemy for you. Your crown had to use positioning and coordination to wipe another group in one fell swoop. The wayshrine stacks them almost as well as RA or DC.
Of course a ball group is more organized and that enables them to do what they do. Did it have to become much easier for them though? It's rare to see a whole ball get stacked & wiped by a solo, or small group. So these sets, whom do they serve?

Saruman?

These sets got aoe burst nerfed. Harmony, proxy det, and necro (I guess corrosive dk bombers too) were all nerfed as a result of pull sets. That took a lot of power from small group and solo bombers who could use those aoe bursts effectively, and now you hardly ever see them kill groups. Of course now the only ones who can effectively and consistently use these sets are ball groups. These pull sets are really unhealthy for the game, that's when I started noticing a large decrease in player pop. Whether that's the case or not, it certainly didn't help things.

There is obvious counterplay to every single one of the pull sets. You literally just have to hold block. If you see someone gap close in and turn red then hold block or even if you just see the ball group push into pugs. If you see a big circle with a purple bubble at the middle then hold block. If you can't adapt to the counterplay available then no amount of changes will help you.

I would only say there's obvious counterplay to DC, which is hardly used now. Rush got a buff in range so now you can get pulled from way out of your camera view. There isn't a visual cue like DC has, and if it's laggy block doesn't work half the time. Not to mention an 8 second cool down with decent damage also. And the biggest issue is it doesn't obey immunity rules so you can yo yo people if you have more than 1 pull set. I've had this done to me and done this to people. it's not really fair either way. The main point I was making was that it made bombing too trivial which led to the nerf of a lot of burst aoe which hurt a lot of solo and small group play. It also dumbed down ball grouping to a degree. Groups before would have to know how to kite and bait players to chokes better, now you have choke points on demand.

The defensive and condescending attitude makes it seem like you're a user of this set, seeing as the main point of my comment wasn't to cry about the lack of counterplay. Any decent group doesn't need to crutch on this set to get kills, my problem was it indirectly nerfed things that solo and small groups used to fight larger groups who have more sets and players, therefore naturally more damage at their disposal.

The visual cue for rush is a chain attaching to you similar to the DK chain. So its easily seen and can be blocked.

It's not really a visual cue if it happens as you're getting pulled in. And in many cases as others have said, it's laggy and there's already a ton of effects going on so no, it's not easily seen. Also as others have said blocking slows you so you will likely be stuck in the bomb area anyways, and on top of that rush is almost always followed up with an unblockable fear. I mean I get it, some people would prefer to have cheap easy kills with no counterplay. From my experience running it a lot, I would say around 90% of people won't escape it. So much for being easily countered. If it really was then no one would be using it. DC is much more telegraphed and has a very reasonable cooldown of 25 seconds. Because you can avoid it better you don't see it used as often, especially not from ball groups.

It seems you are having trouble blocking obviously telegraphed abilities and sets. To improve your PvP skills, especially regarding blocking and the rush of agony set, consider these resources:

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/16xqis1/basic_pvp_guide/
Basic PVP Guide: This guide covers the fundamentals of PvP, including the importance of having a dedicated PvP build and understanding different PvP modes like Battlegrounds and Cyrodiil. It emphasizes the need for burst damage and effective potion use to enhance survivability.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AHyy7A79cQ
New Player PVP Guide: A concise video guide that discusses essential tips for beginners, including build recommendations and strategies for improving your gameplay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nzQYR0a6rc
How to Sustain in PvP: This video focuses on sustaining resources during PvP encounters, which is crucial for maintaining your effectiveness in battle.

Nice to send RaidingTraining a beginner guide like he is inept beginner for not blocking RoA in heavy lag and effect chaos when blocking probably still gets him killed. Like fighting ballgroups is easy to learn basic thing and not something everyone except other ballgroups usually fails or avoid, even the best solo/smallscale. Shows what arrogant guys most ballgroups are. If you go into Cyrodiil wearing viable but not meta build following beginer guide correctly fighting people who know what they do you will probably still loose every single fight as people with meta builds will just overwhelm you.

While you suggest that sending beginner guides is condescending, I actually think they can be quite valuable, even for experienced players. Sometimes a fresh perspective from a basic guide can remind us of fundamentals we might have overlooked.

Regarding your comment about "viable but not meta builds," I'd argue that the meta isn't as restrictive as you imply. There's actually quite a bit of build diversity that can be effective in Cyrodiil. It's more about skill and strategy than strictly adhering to the meta.

I find nothing in these guides I do not already know and if I go into Cyrodiil with a subobtimal build I will get killed by any decend player in 1v1 not to mention 1vX without doing anything from guide wrong while they often use no defense at all so either I am doing things wrong that nobody can describe or the fight is unwinnable because they have stronger char because of build advantage.
These guides are only minimum basics, most fights are decided by who has better builds/stats and higher numbers.

In Zerg versus ballgroup fights if you follow these guides and common narrative anti ballgroup rules like „dont stack“ or „build tanky“ you will probably still die.

Just go somewhere else will maybe save your life but only if you see the ballgroup in time and not when they ambush you (like jumping from above or coming threw sidedoor or open inner maingate in a keep they own)
you do not

You call pullsets balanced because they have blocking as counterplay in theory but not so much in praxis when ballgroups can ignore pretty much everything thrown at them by randoms including multiple much more telegraphed easily blockable coldfire ballistas and nb bombs.

Iriidius

Iriidius wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

It is especially frustrating that of all the terrible mechanics in Cyrodiil, when the one set in the game that minorly inconvenienced these groups with their dozen running Vigors, ZOS was quick to act when several organized group players complained - not even by adjusting the set, but removing it entirely from a PvP setting.

Quick to act? Azureblight was change back in July 2023 to its current iteration. Over a year is quick in your mind?

Joy_Division wrote: »

I sometimes play in a group and I find these mechanics utterly boring and not fun at all.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

But the big azureblight complain thread(s) in forum started only a few weeks ago and ZOS nerfed it in the next update

Do you have some proof that it was nerfed directly because of that thread?

ZoS never states what exactly was the cause for them to nerf something and their reasons are usually unreliable and often nonsense. But I cant remember seeing any popular nerf azureblight discussions before last few weeks and if noone makes the effort to create a discussion or agree to a nerf azureblight request than it doesnt seems to be a problem or like many players are interested in nerfing it and there is no reason to nerf it. What should they have acted too? Probably too few people used it back then.
Even now Azureblightnerf is supported only by a vocal minority spreading false information like azureblight beeing effektive against solo players

And where is the proof that RoA and dark convergence were created to combat ballgroups and that radiating regen and echoing vigor in u35 and harmony and graverobber in u38 were nerfed because of complains about ballgroup?
ZoS stated that echoing and radiating were nerfed to fit new HoT standart and harmony graverobber because of necrobombers using these group tools solo but ballgrouplers stated that these HoT nerfs were exactly the healstacking nerfs ballgroupcritics askee for and expected to destroy ballgroups.