A new Perspective on Teabagging

seventyfive · September 27

Some players really enjoy teabagging me in BGs, I believe it makes them happy!
I also witness my randomly grouped teammates teabagging my foes.
I assume they feel good about themselves, to finally degrade and assert dominance over a player that they've put effort into taking down.

Regardless: The act itself is not what I take issue with.

What actually bothers me is what this says about the players I am playing this game with.

A company I respect is a company I enjoy:
If I am unable to respect my foe,
And unable to respect my mate,
I will find no joy in taking down my foe,
and no joy in helping my mate.

Sometimes when I launch ESO, I can't help but reason about the company of players who I am deciding to spend my time with.
Perhaps there's a way to move us, all of the players, in a direction where it's easier to respect one another.

Perhaps task one of your most skilled devs to solve this task with machine learning.
It is realistically doable within a reasonable timeframe, before anyone naively claims otherwise.
If the added computing demands of running it is deemed too expensive,
I believe it's even realistic to solve very robustly with algorithms that don't rely on ML.

The real question is whether it is desirable or not. I'm not sure what decision makes the most money.
If I am part of the minority, I will happily accept that and move on to other things. That's okay, I am not mad at all. But I am curious.

Kisakee · September 27

So what exactly do you want them to do?

JiubLeRepenti · September 27

Perhaps task one of your most skilled devs to solve this task with machine learning.

Dude, they can't even put cloaks in game. How do you want ZOS to do that.

seventyfive · September 27

Kisakee wrote: »

So what exactly do you want them to do?

Temporarily suspend for a very short duration of time, perhaps for only an hour or a few.

As soon as people realise it's happening automatically, everyone would stop. Problem gone.

Kisakee · September 27

seventyfive wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

So what exactly do you want them to do?

Temporarily suspend. As soon as people realise it's happening automatically, everyone would stop. Problem gone.

Yeah, sure. As if they won't simply switch over to something else like the spit emote.

I_killed_Vivec · September 27

Would the problem be gone? Why would you have any respect for those who want to do it but are restrained by the prospect of a ban?

"I won't do it because I'll be banned" is very different from "I won't do it because it's wrong".

MJallday · September 27

if you dont like it you could always ressurect before people get a chance?

the only way to technically stop it would be to stop people going into crouch within 1m of another player / enemy.
either that or make it so you can only sneak/unsneak once every 15 seconds

but that would then cause sneaking issues - or people would switch to another form of percieved abuse

teabagging isnt an ESO problem, its a people problem - its been in games before ESO, itll be there after - you cant fix people - so why try

NordSwordnBoard · September 27

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/665594/how-will-the-ai-that-monitors-our-in-game-chats-effect-rp/p1

They can't get words right, no way they can handle actions.

Arunei · September 27

You know...given the recent thing with people getting actioned for breaking ToS in private chats saying ""bad words"" or being graphic in RP, I wouldn't be surprised if they start considering teabagging as against the ToS because it's imitating an explicit act. Can't have that in a game where one of the demonic gods of the franchise is literally known in-universe as the King of Grape minus the g.

seventyfive · September 27

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Would the problem be gone? Why would you have any respect for those who want to do it but are restrained by the prospect of a ban?

"I won't do it because I'll be banned" is very different from "I won't do it because it's wrong".

The initial "because I'll be banned" might eventually lead to sympathy for the latter way of reasoning.

TaSheen · September 27

seventyfive wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Would the problem be gone? Why would you have any respect for those who want to do it but are restrained by the prospect of a ban?

"I won't do it because I'll be banned" is very different from "I won't do it because it's wrong".

The initial "because I'll be banned" might eventually lead to sympathy for the latter way of reasoning.

Highly unlikely.

Kisakee · September 27

seventyfive wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Would the problem be gone? Why would you have any respect for those who want to do it but are restrained by the prospect of a ban?

"I won't do it because I'll be banned" is very different from "I won't do it because it's wrong".

The initial "because I'll be banned" might eventually lead to sympathy for the latter way of reasoning.

Nope. Not a chance.

seventyfive · September 27

Kisakee wrote: »

seventyfive wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Would the problem be gone? Why would you have any respect for those who want to do it but are restrained by the prospect of a ban?

"I won't do it because I'll be banned" is very different from "I won't do it because it's wrong".

The initial "because I'll be banned" might eventually lead to sympathy for the latter way of reasoning.

Nope. Not a chance.

I have faith in humans to improve and regain the respect of others.

Are toxic players a lost cause, in video games as well as in real life? I don't think so, I am sure they have some redeeming human qualities, even if that may not be apparent to most people who interact with them in their daily life. They surely have some strengths, even though it might be hard to imagine.

CrazyKitty · September 27

ZOS should have long ago disabled emotes in Cyrodiil. The fix for this issue is super super simple and well within their capabilities to resolve in less than an hour.

LadyGP · September 27

Tbagging has been around for ages - since Halo 2 - it is a way of life in video games. Period.

Now to your point about having an algorithm or AI stop it....

If I kill someone and stealth over them and then get discovered and popped out of stealth how would the AI know I didn't tbag them? If I stealth over someone and then leave stealth to run after someone how does AI know if that was tbagging.

We have already seen multiple instances where the new "AI" chat monitoring system has made errors - do you think using AI to track tbagging will avoid these instances of accidental bans?

Tbagging is not something that needs to be policed in a game. It's an absolute waste of time, energy, and money for ZoS.

If you're being harassed and have asked people to stop send a clip and let them deal with it. It's that simple.

JiubLeRepenti · September 27

CrazyKitty wrote: »

ZOS should have long ago disabled emotes in Cyrodiil. The fix for this issue is super super simple.

Teabagging can be done without any emote.

LadyGP · September 27

CrazyKitty wrote: »

ZOS should have long ago disabled emotes in Cyrodiil. The fix for this issue is super super simple and well within their capabilities to resolve in less than an hour.

I literally don't know anyone that gets triggered by emotes in a game. Emotes in PvP are fun and create a rivalry.

People kill me and sweep emote on me... I kill them and do sit chair next to their dead body. It's all in good fun.

It's just pixels on a screen.

CrazyKitty · September 27

seventyfive wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

seventyfive wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Would the problem be gone? Why would you have any respect for those who want to do it but are restrained by the prospect of a ban?

"I won't do it because I'll be banned" is very different from "I won't do it because it's wrong".

The initial "because I'll be banned" might eventually lead to sympathy for the latter way of reasoning.

Nope. Not a chance.

I have faith in humans to improve and regain the respect of others.

Are toxic players a lost cause, in video games as well as in real life? I don't think so, I am sure they have some redeeming human qualities, even if that may not be apparent to most people who interact with them in their daily life. They surely have some strengths, even though it might be hard to imagine.

Again, the solution is super simple. Send the offenders to mandatory counseling services with Uncle Sheogorath for 24 hours once/week for three months. (I'm obviously just kidding about this)

CrazyKitty · September 27

Arunei wrote: »

You know...given the recent thing with people getting actioned for breaking ToS in private chats saying ""bad words"" or being graphic in RP, I wouldn't be surprised if they start considering teabagging as against the ToS because it's imitating an explicit act. Can't have that in a game where one of the demonic gods of the franchise is literally known in-universe as the King of Grape minus the g.

Nowhere in the ToS does it say we aren't allowed to use swear words. So, irregardless of people having action taken against them for doing so, it's still not against the written ToS provided that the swear word is not used in some kind of personal attack.

robwolf666 · September 27

Kisakee wrote: »

So what exactly do you want them to do?

Well, if someone dunks their teabag several times rapidly, give them an automatic warning that their tea might be too distasteful. If they persist, take their teabags off them for a set period of time.

RaikaNA · September 27

CrazyKitty wrote: »

ZOS should have long ago disabled emotes in Cyrodiil. The fix for this issue is super super simple and well within their capabilities to resolve in less than an hour.

But that would be bad for business for ZOS.. if I can't use emotes in Cyrodiil.. there is no use for me to even purchase emotes in the crown store... or even waste my endeavors on it.

darvaria · September 28

ZOS KNOWS this is problem with women and LGBTQ. The problem is the implied physical contact. Although virtual. ZOS should have changed the emote for crouch. Make it a simple cloud. Other emotes don't imply physical contact. Can't say they have been told this ... many times.

Liability in waiting ....................................

katanagirl1 · September 28

darvaria wrote: »

ZOS KNOWS this is problem with women and LGBTQ. The problem is the implied physical contact. Although virtual. ZOS should have changed the emote for crouch. Make it a simple cloud. Other emotes don't imply physical contact. Can't say they have been told this ... many times.

Liability in waiting ....................................

I don’t think I would like this option. I don’t want a cloud around my character’s butt constantly while doing thieving activities. I spend long periods of time with her crouched.

I don’t like tbagging but this is not the answer.

GLP323b14_ESO · September 28

Why can I never find anyone to teabag me! 😡

Am I not worthy?

Kisakee · September 28

GLP323b14_ESO wrote: »

Why can I never find anyone to teabag me! 😡

Am I not worthy?

Only the hot water will get the teabag.

Theist_VII · September 28

I’ve seen games implement an “honor system” at the end of matches.

What I mean by this, is that after a game ends, players have the opportunity to “honor” their teammates for exceptional behavior.

Like voting on Leadership, Cooperation, and Sportsmanship, ect…

When systems like these are in place, they encourage better behaviors in matchmaking.

Sarannah · September 28

Easy fix: Put a 5 second cooldown on crouch. (maybe only in PvP zones)

Shouldn't bother anyone, and no more teabagging. There is no gameplay reason to spam crouch, so it shouldn't affect anyone.

PS: Players teabagging are only showing how immature they really are.

Rowjoh · September 28

Kisakee wrote: »

seventyfive wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

So what exactly do you want them to do?

Temporarily suspend. As soon as people realise it's happening automatically, everyone would stop. Problem gone.

Yeah, sure. As if they won't simply switch over to something else like the spit emote.

remove the spit emote?

Rowjoh · September 28

LadyGP wrote: »

CrazyKitty wrote: »

ZOS should have long ago disabled emotes in Cyrodiil. The fix for this issue is super super simple and well within their capabilities to resolve in less than an hour.

I literally don't know anyone that gets triggered by emotes in a game. Emotes in PvP are fun and create a rivalry.

People kill me and sweep emote on me... I kill them and do sit chair next to their dead body. It's all in good fun.

It's just pixels on a screen.

erm, hate whispers and threats to report when doing exactly this are VERY common.

Pelanora · September 28

I hope you'll all behave yourselves in the real world.

Idelise · September 28

I have found that game devs can support good behaviours, which changes the type of community you have in MMO. Example: I find FFXIV community to be by far THE NICEST I ever encountered in any MMO. And I played a lot of them.
No matter if it's PvE or PvP, people are usually friendly, supportive and respectful.

Why?
Even if you lose in PvP, you get something out of it - time is not entirely lost. You get less than the winners but never zero. Be it token currency, or PvP XP which contributes to other rewards.
In PvE? They have a system of commendations where after a dungeon/trial/raid you can give a commendation to a player you feel has played well. People need to collect like 1000 (I don't remember the current number but it's A LOT) commendations and run all current dungeons/trials etc. at least once to unlock a MENTOR status which gives you a special icon over your head and benefits from mentoring others... by helping them run through dungeons. There's also a whole channel for newbies that helps. In general, the FFXIV community has a lot of in-game support for fostering that good environment and I think it shows. I wish more games would be conscious of such things and maybe implement small gameplay mechanics to motivate the community to be better people.

Plus, game masters seem to investigate cases of harassment personally - as seen with the hilarious case of Table Cloth, a character who was reported by some strung-up RPers who took issue in him playing dead on their table with that name on :P (he wasn't punished)