Population shrinking, PLEASE do something

OtarTheMad

Two things I found on crossplay for those interested

https://www.dexerto.com/gaming/eso-creative-director-says-his-answer-to-crossplay-has-changed-2483443/

https://youtube.com/shorts/T6qXBtxgabk?si=gZciAVsCsph5U2KX

Jaraal

Elsonso wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ I think ZOS will be able to fix lag in Cyrodiil before they can get crossplay. Our best hope would be for the new MMO to be ESO2.

I think we can be very certain that the new MMO will not be ESO 2.

"Brand-new" IP.

ZENIMAX ONLINE STUDIOS is hiring for The Elder Scrolls Online and future projects that include a brand-new AAA IP. We’re growing to meet the demands of our players and industry, so we’re looking for talented, self-motivated people of varied experiences and backgrounds with the desire to make great games. Join us!

Rkindaleft

Bammlschwamml wrote: »

If you keep posting the empty bars, they will just reduce the pop cap again...

We need ideas! How do we get players into Cyrodiil?

Something crazy, like a Whitestrake's Mayhem where you can earn 1000 crowns every day...

Turn one of the dead campaigns into a chaotic mess and I'd probably play it tbh. Cyrodiil was bugged out a few days ago and people were knocking down all the walls around keeps for the fun of it because they couldn't be repaired. It might've been broken and unplayable but at least it was something fresh and different than the Cyrodiil we've had for 10 years. They could have an "april fools" type day where most of the rules go out the window just to see what happens (they could add a limited time campaign or they could make a special event.)

Anyways, I haven't checked this thread in 2 weeks because I've kind of gotten over beating a dead horse and asking for an evening where our raid group doesn't have multiple DCs or lag reducing enjoyment so I've been standing on a lamp post in Belkarth doing nothing instead.

MISTFORMBZZZ

Rkindaleft wrote: »

Bammlschwamml wrote: »

If you keep posting the empty bars, they will just reduce the pop cap again...

We need ideas! How do we get players into Cyrodiil?

Something crazy, like a Whitestrake's Mayhem where you can earn 1000 crowns every day...

Turn one of the dead campaigns into a chaotic mess and I'd probably play it tbh. Cyrodiil was bugged out a few days ago and people were knocking down all the walls around keeps for the fun of it because they couldn't be repaired. It might've been broken and unplayable but at least it was something fresh and different than the Cyrodiil we've had for 10 years. They could have an "april fools" type day where most of the rules go out the window just to see what happens (they could add a limited time campaign or they could make a special event.)

Anyways, I haven't checked this thread in 2 weeks because I've kind of gotten over beating a dead horse and asking for an evening where our raid group doesn't have multiple DCs or lag reducing enjoyment so I've been standing on a lamp post in Belkarth doing nothing instead.

In Belkarth on PS EU there are betwen 5 - 10 people often at prime time, pictures of this are also in this thread here..

I feel you mate

Arrow312

There are holidays in Hogwarts ppl join later....

What i read, heard and saw is, that in the last couple of years more and more "solo" casual players joined the game. These type of player doesnt want to play with others. They just want asap BiS gear and get the achivements after they get it they leave.

Brokensoul ring is / was the best example or indroduced companions.

But you will always find people who would say they game is fine and not dying.All those who played years saw the diffenrences "newer" players dont know how it was before.

moderatelyfatman

Arrow312 wrote: »

What i read, heard and saw is, that in the last couple of years more and more "solo" casual players joined the game. These type of player doesnt want to play with others. They just want asap BiS gear and get the achivements after they get it they leave.
Brokensoul ring is / was the best example or indroduced companions.
But you will always find people who would say they game is fine and not dying.All those who played years saw the diffenrences "newer" players dont know how it was before.

I've definitely noticed over the last couple of years that people are a lot less chatty and willing to socialise. I guess the problem with catering more to short term players is that you also take away a lot of incentive for players to stay long term.

mb10

They’ll do a twitch stream claiming the numbers are higher than ever lol
All you need to do is log in and see for yourself.

Having EU, NA servers and 3 different platforms is a part of this too.
Game population spread across 6 servers and there is no cross play

MISTFORMBZZZ

It has been a while now since Zos commented here and still nothing happened.

Wonder if they are sleeping once more.

fizzylu

I mean, what are they supposed to say? According to them, the game is doing well and fine.... but I already know I'll see even less people logging in thanks to this BG update, including myself.

ceruulean

It's good that the devs restored the original tutorial so the storyline is coherent again. It would help retain new players. Imagine the years of newbies scared away by the nonsensical tutorial timeline. I think ZOS dropped the ball for too long and is now paying the price.

Other unfriendly mechanics are the itemization of this game. There's over 600+ armor sets compared to when most of us started, and it overwhelms people. Every expansion, there are more useless style stones and ingredients clogging up inventories. I know ZOS updated the imperial key fragments to be a currency, which is nice, but there's still just... so much overload.

Guild stores are weird and don't function like I'd expect. When your listing expires, your stock is mailed back to you. All I can think is "what the heck?" Since when did unsold goods get returned by Amazon? Most game auctions keep everything in one interface: delist the item from the public, mark it as expired, and you check your listings on your own time. Instead, ESO has a convoluted process of reclaiming items from luggage inspection. Strange design decisions like this make the economy unpleasant to partiticpate in. Now listing duration was decreased from 30 days to 14 days, which increases the returns and time wasted checking junk mail. I have enough junk mail in real life, thank you very much!

ZOS not taking control of crown exchange and implementing an official way to buy crowns with gold. This seems like a no brainer, it works for RuneScape, WoW, and Warframe, but apparently it's not a priority. I wonder how many people got scammed and discouraged over the years.

Game is fun, but a lot of QoL was neglected for a while. Group Finder, Home Tours, and sharper fonts being the only major user experience changes.

fizzylu

ceruulean wrote: »

Game is fun, but a lot of QoL was neglected for a while. Group Finder, Home Tours, and sharper fonts being the only major user experience changes.

Treating these QoL updates as major new features doesn't help anything either.

Elsonso

ceruulean wrote: »

It's good that the devs restored the original tutorial so the storyline is coherent again. It would help retain new players. Imagine the years of newbies scared away by the nonsensical tutorial timeline. I think ZOS dropped the ball for too long and is now paying the price.

ZOS seems to have a very long "reflection" period between changes and updates to changes. Too long for today's agile world.

However, they need to not make major changes to the way the game works. I think they will just lose players doing that.

moderatelyfatman

fizzylu wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

Game is fun, but a lot of QoL was neglected for a while. Group Finder, Home Tours, and sharper fonts being the only major user experience changes.

Treating these QoL updates as major new features doesn't help anything either.

Treating QoL updates as major updates is still better than having entire quarters dedicated to non-existant performance fixes.

Arrow312

there are so many little things that would help console players but they still waiting for it and i dont believe they will ever get those things like mini map, map pings, mage book locations, skyshards locations... On PC you can get all this by install Add ons on console you need your smartphone or tablet to find these points. Why dont put all these into the game for all....

Better those things then telling we will work on performance issues and nothing happens.

Bammlschwamml

Arrow312 wrote: »

there are so many little things that would help console players but they still waiting for it and i dont believe they will ever get those things like mini map, map pings, mage book locations, skyshards locations... On PC you can get all this by install Add ons on console you need your smartphone or tablet to find these points. Why dont put all these into the game for all....

Better those things then telling we will work on performance issues and nothing happens.

To be fair, in the last couple of years we already got some nice quality of life stuff like ability timers, target markers, inventory management, armory stations etc.

Small changes like these make me feel like there are still some devs working on this game who care about ESO and its players.

And this makes it even harder to understand why they just don't seem to get the necessary resources to finally fix performance, and enough time to double check their work for bugs.

If i knew that the crown store money was used to improve ESO, i would buy more stuff to support them, but i have a feeling that it's not. And i feel like the dev teams are a lot smaller than they should be, for a game of this size.

fizzylu

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

Treating QoL updates as major updates is still better than having entire quarters dedicated to non-existant performance fixes.

I mean, yeah-- if the argument is "it's better than nothing".... but at that point the standards are just on the floor for when it comes to this game, which is sad.

Rkindaleft

Bammlschwamml wrote: »

Arrow312 wrote: »

there are so many little things that would help console players but they still waiting for it and i dont believe they will ever get those things like mini map, map pings, mage book locations, skyshards locations... On PC you can get all this by install Add ons on console you need your smartphone or tablet to find these points. Why dont put all these into the game for all....

Better those things then telling we will work on performance issues and nothing happens.

To be fair, in the last couple of years we already got some nice quality of life stuff like ability timers, target markers, inventory management, armory stations etc.

Small changes like these make me feel like there are still some devs working on this game who care about ESO and its players.

And this makes it even harder to understand why they just don't seem to get the necessary resources to finally fix performance, and enough time to double check their work for bugs.

If i knew that the crown store money was used to improve ESO, i would buy more stuff to support them, but i have a feeling that it's not. And i feel like the dev teams are a lot smaller than they should be, for a game of this size.

We have gotten some good stuff but I feel like a lot of it is half-baked though. Dressing Room is an addon that might as well just be more valuable (having 10+ setups for trash or bosses) than the Armory assistant in actual content but we can't summon the Armory in anything that has a leader board, at least before on console people would leave the trial and swap the setups using it and travel back in but now since you lose vitality when you leave instance it's basically useless there.

Hardly anyone cares about Home Tours, since it released I don't know anyone who even uses the function and nobody ever talks about it in discords or whatever.

Battlegrounds update only targets a very small subsection of an already small PvP community and has caused more problems than it tried to fix.

Most of the good QoL features are 2+ years old and everything since has been generally very lacking in depth (outside of maybe Group Finder, which is not used that much.)

I think almost everyone who said they'd be happy to stop getting content in turn for more fixes would now backtrack that statement because now we get almost no content for 6+ months of the year and major bugs still go unfixed. Tons of other developers release content and do fixes at the same time.

Elsonso

Rkindaleft wrote: »

I think almost everyone who said they'd be happy to stop getting content in turn for more fixes would now backtrack that statement because now we get almost no content for 6+ months of the year and major bugs still go unfixed. Tons of other developers release content and do fixes at the same time.

I am one of the ones that said NO, so there is no backtracking for me!

Low volume of content. Low volume of fixes. Low volume of QoL. Happy 10th Anniversary! Just enough of a dribble to fill a cup so that they can say they did it, but it there is an ocean of bugs and QoL work they could do. I feel like there is something holding them back.

Onomog

Elsonso wrote: »

I feel like there is something holding them back.

I feel like this is the crux of it here. They aren't incompetent, regardless of what people may say, so there definitely has to be something.

manukartofanu

Onomog wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I feel like there is something holding them back.

I feel like this is the crux of it here. They aren't incompetent, regardless of what people may say, so there definitely has to be something.

Exactly, the new BGs completely confirm what you've said.

Jaraal

Onomog wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I feel like there is something holding them back.

I feel like this is the crux of it here. They aren't incompetent, regardless of what people may say, so there definitely has to be something.

And we're not allowed to speculate, because "conspiracy theories."

fizzylu

manukartofanu wrote: »

Onomog wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I feel like there is something holding them back.

I feel like this is the crux of it here. They aren't incompetent, regardless of what people may say, so there definitely has to be something.

Exactly, the new BGs completely confirm what you've said.

I feel like many will have to agree to disagree on that one.

Rkindaleft

Onomog wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I feel like there is something holding them back.

I feel like this is the crux of it here. They aren't incompetent, regardless of what people may say, so there definitely has to be something.

I'd surmise it's not the only reason but it's becoming increasingly more obvious that the dev resources have been reduced. You can see it in the lack of content/quality of content. Issues and game problems take longer to fix now compared to even a year or two ago (and some issues go unfixed the whole time, as already mentioned in this thread.) The lag thread has been going for over 6 months now and they're still asking for more information from players because they haven't been able to pinpoint what the issue is.

Coo_PnT

No one can prove that they are incompetent.
From a certain aspect, the event is incompetent. From another aspect, it is competent. What is competent or incompetent depends on your environment, your current situation, and your feelings.
Are you competent?

The intermittent lag problem is one of the reasons I don't play ESO. In other words, incompetence.
And I am incompetent.

XSTRONG

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

[snip]

Didnt you have a thread recently where Kevin answered they are looking into crossplay? Im pretty sure Zos are working on crossplay and might even announce it on Console 10 year anniversary

[edited to remove quote]

Maitsukas

XSTRONG wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

[snip]

Didnt you have a thread recently where Kevin answered they are looking into crossplay? Im pretty sure Zos are working on crossplay and might even announce it on Console 10 year anniversary

They need to circumvent several problems, that were brought up in another thread:

tomofhyrule wrote: »

The problem with Crossplay is that ESO is set up with a megaserver architecture. As the devs have said several times, there is no way to merge the servers as is.

What they would need to do to enable crossplay is essentially make a new server and then copy the existing accounts into the new server, before finally deleting the old megaservers.

That of course leads to questions:

• If two players have the same account name, which player is forced to change it? This is doubly difficult since the @ name for console is the gamertag from the console, so then if you have the same tag as an account on the other console, it would conflict. Also remember that it would be a brand new server, so would they have to append "-XB" or "-PS" onto every account name for that?
• How would you deal with character name conflicts. Again, ESO is set up assuming that every character on a server has a unique name. If all consoles were condensed into one megaserver, then who wins name conflicts?
• Which servers are set to merge? Are they supposed to merge all four console servers into one, or will it just be two regional servers: console EU and console NA?
• Will the legal teams play nice with that? I'm sure there are a lot of legalese they have to get through, specifically in the case that Sony will not be okay with the idea of people being able to not play on a Sony console.

There is a lot more involved in this than "oh, let's just push the 'crossplay on' button," and ZOS has been saying for years what their architecture is and how it differs from the architecture of other MMOs (i.e. the Megaserver architecture that allows literally every account on one server to interact). However, that makes adding crossplay much harder and will almost take a reimagining of the 10-year old system. Deleting and remaking the servers into one seems like the best possible option, but it would be ripe for conflicts... and the fact that we had the PTS/PCNA issue in April doesn't do much to inspire confidence.

Maitsukas wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

• If two players have the same account name, which player is forced to change it? This is doubly difficult since the @ name for console is the gamertag from the console, so then if you have the same tag as an account on the other console, it would conflict. Also remember that it would be a brand new server, so would they have to append "-XB" or "-PS" onto every account name for that?
• How would you deal with character name conflicts. Again, ESO is set up assuming that every character on a server has a unique name. If all consoles were condensed into one megaserver, then who wins name conflicts?

This basically also applies to player guilds, and that one is really problematic, since there is no way for players to change the name of the guild.

Meiox wrote: »

And what if you allready have an account on both system? Would you have 40 characters on the merged account, if you have both accounts maxed out ?

[edited to remove quote]

Stafford197

XSTRONG wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

[snip]

Didnt you have a thread recently where Kevin answered they are looking into crossplay? Im pretty sure Zos are working on crossplay and might even announce it on Console 10 year anniversary

[edited to remove quote]

Crossplay would be interesting but there’s a whole lot of concerns to consider as well. If we are talking PC to Console crossplay then just forget it. The disparity caused by addons is so drastic I won’t even waste my time on the details.

But Xbox to PlayStation does have potential - it would be a question of how it is handled. Will megaservers be merged? Will we just have the option of switching to formerly Xbox-only or PS-only servers? Has ZOS found a way to move accounts safely between server databases?

Merging the Console populations into a single NA megaserver and a single EU megaserver would be cool for sure. Population-wise the servers can certainly handle it too, since they used to handle having way more players anyway. I highly doubt we will see crossplay but will be pleasantly surprised if proved wrong!

XSTRONG

Stafford197 wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

[snip]

Didnt you have a thread recently where Kevin answered they are looking into crossplay? Im pretty sure Zos are working on crossplay and might even announce it on Console 10 year anniversary

[edited to remove quote]

Crossplay would be interesting but there’s a whole lot of concerns to consider as well. If we are talking PC to Console crossplay then just forget it. The disparity caused by addons is so drastic I won’t even waste my time on the details.

But Xbox to PlayStation does have potential - it would be a question of how it is handled. Will megaservers be merged? Will we just have the option of switching to formerly Xbox-only or PS-only servers? Has ZOS found a way to move accounts safely between server databases?

Merging the Console populations into a single NA megaserver and a single EU megaserver would be cool for sure. Population-wise the servers can certainly handle it too, since they used to handle having way more players anyway. I highly doubt we will see crossplay but will be pleasantly surprised if proved wrong!

Or they could just merge Psna with pseu and xboxna with xboxeu.

Im from Sweden but in other games I play with people from north America so why not possible in Eso.

Maitsukas

XSTRONG wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

[snip]

Didnt you have a thread recently where Kevin answered they are looking into crossplay? Im pretty sure Zos are working on crossplay and might even announce it on Console 10 year anniversary

[edited to remove quote]

Crossplay would be interesting but there’s a whole lot of concerns to consider as well. If we are talking PC to Console crossplay then just forget it. The disparity caused by addons is so drastic I won’t even waste my time on the details.

But Xbox to PlayStation does have potential - it would be a question of how it is handled. Will megaservers be merged? Will we just have the option of switching to formerly Xbox-only or PS-only servers? Has ZOS found a way to move accounts safely between server databases?

Merging the Console populations into a single NA megaserver and a single EU megaserver would be cool for sure. Population-wise the servers can certainly handle it too, since they used to handle having way more players anyway. I highly doubt we will see crossplay but will be pleasantly surprised if proved wrong!

Or they could just merge Psna with pseu and xboxna with xboxeu.

Im from Sweden but in other games I play with people from north America so why not possible in Eso.

That still wouldn't really be a solution, since one region would be forced to deal with an increased latency compared to the other. If the megaserver is going to be situated in the U.S., then EU would have problems and vice versa.

Stafford197

XSTRONG wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

[snip]

Didnt you have a thread recently where Kevin answered they are looking into crossplay? Im pretty sure Zos are working on crossplay and might even announce it on Console 10 year anniversary

[edited to remove quote]

Crossplay would be interesting but there’s a whole lot of concerns to consider as well. If we are talking PC to Console crossplay then just forget it. The disparity caused by addons is so drastic I won’t even waste my time on the details.

But Xbox to PlayStation does have potential - it would be a question of how it is handled. Will megaservers be merged? Will we just have the option of switching to formerly Xbox-only or PS-only servers? Has ZOS found a way to move accounts safely between server databases?

Merging the Console populations into a single NA megaserver and a single EU megaserver would be cool for sure. Population-wise the servers can certainly handle it too, since they used to handle having way more players anyway. I highly doubt we will see crossplay but will be pleasantly surprised if proved wrong!

Or they could just merge Psna with pseu and xboxna with xboxeu.

Im from Sweden but in other games I play with people from north America so why not possible in Eso.

Like the other poster said, that is not a solution…. The reason NA and EU are separated is due to latency.

They have to keep it regional. The only crossplay which can occur here is platform-based.