Population shrinking, PLEASE do something

OtarTheMad

alternatelder wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Well they did sunset support for 32 bit Windows PCs shortly after the Morrowind DLC dropped. So they will continue to increase the hardware requirements as they see fit. And it's only logical that at some point they will cease coding around the limitations of the 1st gen consoles. They have the numbers on who plays on what rigs, and perhaps when the number of 1st gen console users drops to a certain point, they will raise the hardware requirements accordingly. But, without them sharing a roadmap with us, we can only speculate.

At this point, I don't expect they have such a roadmap. They have said a lot of people are still playing on older consoles, and we can probably add older PCs to that. I don't see that there is a business reason to chase them off, or they would be doing it. They chased PC players off older hardware more than once, so we know they are willing to do it when they can.

They can keep rearranging the luggage to fit inside the older consoles for a while longer.

At what point do they decide that keeping a few players running antiquated systems outweighs the loss of frustrated players who are leaving due to chronic performance issues and game stagnation due to the current coding limits? First gen console players will get bored and leave as well. They will also move to other games as Cyrodiil goes unfixed and unupdated.

Is it not reasonable to assume that an enhanced and improved ESO would draw more players in the future? Would more players stick around (or old ones come back) if they were technically able to raise the housing item limits? There are many reasons for them to grow the ESO legacy and player involvement. The question is, at what point will they be willing to bring the game up to current standards while risking losing players on older, antiquated systems?

This

ZOS has already said that old consoles hold them back from adding stuff. Memory issues are the reasons for a lot of things not getting changed or added.

Don't mix up what he said. It's not impossible, but it is a lot of work to put in new systems is what was said. This was said before two new classes were added. 🤷

He said it during an interview during the Necrom year. I shared a clip, maybe here or another thread and the backdrop is Necrom.

EDIT: Found it

https://youtu.be/aXIg2Ahndp8?si=ixLBweLkoEdMUbE-

Amottica

1

Arrow312 wrote: »

5.) ESO doesn’t have any events that bring people together, so it’s irrelevant to post screenshots from other games where there are hundreds of players clustered around an event boss during the middle of the day on a weekday.

-Tbf ESO had some sort of this events when Carglorn was for groups but they decided to change it.

Imo the game is to focus on "casuals" today, things like Brokensoul and the Open World killed group play. Because you can do to much things solo. It should be hard or nearly impossible to do group content solo but nowadays you can do nearly everything solo. So the MMO effect step more and more away.

I read some threads in german forum where people complained that they couldnt do things solo and need others....thats weird for me because you play an MMO

Thx for pointing that out as it is what I have been saying. We lack those major fights that require a large number of players and lack the systems to bring people to those fights.

Elsonso

"It'll happen eventually"

That, I will believe when I see it. They have also said a lot of people are still on the older platforms. Shutting them off is not going to be just a ZOS decision. I have to think that XBox and Playstation are going to have an opinion on the matter.

YandereGirlfriend

Elsonso wrote: »

"It'll happen eventually"

That, I will believe when I see it. They have also said a lot of people are still on the older platforms. Shutting them off is not going to be just a ZOS decision. I have to think that XBox and Playstation are going to have an opinion on the matter.

I mean, it WILL happen eventually. Time comes for every system and they've had a long run already, literally over a decade. And Sony and Microsoft will be very happy to sell another console generation to them.

It was something like three years ago now but Lotus from the Tales of Tamriel podcast was basically forced into buying a PS5 because his PS4 wasn't doing basic things like even rendering mobs or mechanics in trials. Which was clearly very problematic as a main tank. When he switched to the PS5 he was like, "OH, so THAT'S what that mechanic looks like; I've never even seen it rendered before!" Which is to say that the game was quite literally unplayable for him on his old console (and it wasn't just him; that experience was repeated for everyone in his raid group who made the jump).

Jaraal

Elsonso wrote: »

"It'll happen eventually"

That, I will believe when I see it. They have also said a lot of people are still on the older platforms. Shutting them off is not going to be just a ZOS decision. I have to think that XBox and Playstation are going to have an opinion on the matter.

XBox and Playstation would be more than happy to have users upgrade to their latest hardware.

fizzylu

@Aurielle
You know-- I do wonder if there is a possibility, that similar to Cyrodiil campaigns seeing kind of a silent decrease to the max amount of players allowed in it, that they have done something like that with the instance size in every area of the game.
Whether or not that's actually possible, I cannot confirm.... but I just know for a fact that while performance in Cyrodiil has gotten worse and worse over the years, I have noticed the same for BGs, dungeons even, and yes, openworld.... so it'd make sense to me if they did in fact do that. And also kind of aligns with my stance that the game just can't handle itself very well, haha.

alternatelder

OtarTheMad wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Well they did sunset support for 32 bit Windows PCs shortly after the Morrowind DLC dropped. So they will continue to increase the hardware requirements as they see fit. And it's only logical that at some point they will cease coding around the limitations of the 1st gen consoles. They have the numbers on who plays on what rigs, and perhaps when the number of 1st gen console users drops to a certain point, they will raise the hardware requirements accordingly. But, without them sharing a roadmap with us, we can only speculate.

At this point, I don't expect they have such a roadmap. They have said a lot of people are still playing on older consoles, and we can probably add older PCs to that. I don't see that there is a business reason to chase them off, or they would be doing it. They chased PC players off older hardware more than once, so we know they are willing to do it when they can.

They can keep rearranging the luggage to fit inside the older consoles for a while longer.

At what point do they decide that keeping a few players running antiquated systems outweighs the loss of frustrated players who are leaving due to chronic performance issues and game stagnation due to the current coding limits? First gen console players will get bored and leave as well. They will also move to other games as Cyrodiil goes unfixed and unupdated.

Is it not reasonable to assume that an enhanced and improved ESO would draw more players in the future? Would more players stick around (or old ones come back) if they were technically able to raise the housing item limits? There are many reasons for them to grow the ESO legacy and player involvement. The question is, at what point will they be willing to bring the game up to current standards while risking losing players on older, antiquated systems?

This

ZOS has already said that old consoles hold them back from adding stuff. Memory issues are the reasons for a lot of things not getting changed or added.

Don't mix up what he said. It's not impossible, but it is a lot of work to put in new systems is what was said. This was said before two new classes were added. 🤷

He said it during an interview during the Necrom year. I shared a clip, maybe here or another thread and the backdrop is Necrom.

EDIT: Found it

https://youtu.be/aXIg2Ahndp8?si=ixLBweLkoEdMUbE-

He said the same thing almost every year because people keep asking the same question every interview for the new chapter or end of year and whatnot.

fizzylu

Taril wrote: »

P.s. WoW capes don't use actual physics. They're simply an extention of a character model that just have their own bones to simulate movement (This is most apparent when playing any race that has a tail, as you'll notice your cape always hovers a solid foot above your tail rather than actually resting on it and being influenced by its movement

I am aware of this, it just also doesn't negate my point that clearly something was going wrong with the creation of ESO because I'm sorry.... if almost every MMO (older, with "worse" graphics, and even with higher PC requirements) on the market can have capes in it and not see terrible performance issues because of them, but for some reason ESO could not.... to me, that clearly shows that Zenimax were probably approaching many things over the course of the games development in ways that simply don't really work.... at least not well.

Quethrosar

we need new trials and dungeons faster. it gets boring running the same over and over. most people i know, do not logon except to do scheduled trials or daily crafting.

MISTFORMBZZZ

LOOOOOL they even reduce your BANK SPACE without ESO PLUS.

Literally pay money or you dont have inventory

Taril

fizzylu wrote: »

if almost every MMO (older, with "worse" graphics, and even with higher PC requirements) on the market can have capes in it and not see terrible performance issues because of them, but for some reason ESO could not....

Implying that the singular reason why ESO doesn't have capes is due to performance issues...

Like I said, WoW's capes are quite low effort. As a result, they look kind of horrible (They also do other jank things like robes make your characters legs simply disappear. Many races thus just have disembodied feet under their robes, others get some generic solid wall of "Robe" preventing you seeing past the ankle...)

These kinds of shortcuts allow them to implement things at low performance cost... But for the cost of looking awful.

It's possible that ESO devs simply didn't like the result of adding capes and how it would look. Maybe they looked terrible even when implemented with a high performance cost using simulated cloth physics.

Also, to my knowledge, TES series hasn't really had capes at all. Well, from my experience at least (I only really got into TES at Morrowind, perhaps the older games have everyone and their Khajiit wearing capes?) thus it wouldn't make much sense to randomly add capes as a thing into this game.

Necrotech_Master

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

LOOOOOL they even reduce your BANK SPACE without ESO PLUS.

Literally pay money or you dont have inventory

technically the 240 bank slots is the "normal" amount, getting the additional 240 is the eso+ bonus

back in the day before they even had eso+ bonuses that was just the normal everyday bank amount you had to make do with

fizzylu

Taril wrote: »

Implying that the singular reason why ESO doesn't have capes is due to performance issues...

Like I said, WoW's capes are quite low effort. As a result, they look kind of horrible (They also do other jank things like robes make your characters legs simply disappear. Many races thus just have disembodied feet under their robes, others get some generic solid wall of "Robe" preventing you seeing past the ankle...)

These kinds of shortcuts allow them to implement things at low performance cost... But for the cost of looking awful.

It's possible that ESO devs simply didn't like the result of adding capes and how it would look. Maybe they looked terrible even when implemented with a high performance cost using simulated cloth physics.

Also, to my knowledge, TES series hasn't really had capes at all. Well, from my experience at least (I only really got into TES at Morrowind, perhaps the older games have everyone and their Khajiit wearing capes?) thus it wouldn't make much sense to randomly add capes as a thing into this game.

But they had said why they cut capes from the games, it's not me just implying it based off of my own feelings.... it was legitimately mostly because of the performance issues they caused and yes, they also weren't happy with how they looked because they designed/created some of the worst looking capes in existence (they clearly were rigged to the player model very strangely, probably due to the ESO player model having so few bones+nodes).

I find the argument that WoW (or any other MMOs) capes look bad to be so odd, so clearly we will never agree here. And robes are a weird point to even bring up since ESO also has some of the worst looking robe skirts. I have a picture comparing the ESO robes to WoW ones somewhere, but I'm not digging it up right now. But I think we all know how ESO robe skirts bend in at the back of the knee (a lot of the newer motifs don't do this though at least) and are the same length all around causing the hem to hover awkwardly above the foot/at the ankle. You can perfectly see on the WoW model of my cape example that the skirts in that game don't do either of those things.

And the previous TES games were a lot older, that alone is reason enough as to why they didn't have capes. The logic that a newer game shouldn't have them because the previous ones didn't is flawed and I won't even bother discussing things with someone who uses that to excuse Zenimax for cutting content rather than figuring out how to make an actually good game. So, bye.

Taril

fizzylu wrote: »

But they had said why they cut capes from the games, it's not me just implying it based off of my own feelings.... it was legitimately mostly because of the performance issues they caused and yes, they also weren't happy with how they looked because they designed/created some of the worst looking capes in existence (they clearly were rigged to the player model very strangely, probably due to the ESO player model having so few bones+nodes).

Which means... Yes, in fact it wasn't solely due to performance issues that they cut capes.

fizzylu wrote: »

I find the argument that WoW (or any other MMOs) capes look bad to be so odd, so clearly we will never agree here.

How is it odd? If things generally don't look very good in other games... Then why should people copy these things from other games?

Or do you simply find my opinion that capes in other games look bad odd? Most of the time it's simply because the way they are implemented is done awfully. Personally, I'm not a fan of capes without cloth physics (Which is most of them. City of Heroes is one of the only MMO's I can recall that had actual cloth physics on their capes) since they end up looking too rigid and awkward, and also still somehow manage to clip horribly all the time.

All this is separate from my overall view that capes are kind of stupid... Like, sure, in City of Heroes where you're literally playing a spandex wearing superhero, having a cape makes sense. But when you're trying for a fantasy theme, capes seem so out of place... A cloak on the other hand? That makes sense (But of course brings about issues, such as similar ones to robes like rendering what is under the cloak, clipping etc.)

fizzylu wrote: »

And robes are a weird point to even bring up since ESO also has some of the worst looking robe skirts.

It's not a weird point to bring up.

The way that WoW cuts corners on robes leads to bad graphical results. It saves on performance (Due to not needing to render the legs) and is easier to implement (Since you don't have to account animations causing clipping - Though, this is moot in regards to WoW given its lack of cloth physics)

I've not said anything about the quality of ESO's robes. I don't know why you'd bring that up, since my comment regarding WoW's robes was about performance vs quality and that going for performance often leads to poorer quality results. It wasn't anything to do with who (If anyone) did robes better or worse.

fizzylu wrote: »

The logic that a newer game shouldn't have them because the previous ones didn't is flawed.

In what way is it flawed?

The idea of a series is to have a cohesive theme. Older games (Set AFTER ESO in timeline, which can be a significant factor in implementing certain things) set a visual theme for the IP, one that didn't involve capes.

Suddenly implementing capes out of nowhere for no reason doesn't fit the overall theme that was set by the numerous games in the series.

One could argue that given the nature of the game (With all its fancy skins, costumes, shiny pets, shiny mounts and all sorts of other stuff) that there is less issue with going against the IP's themes and adding in capes. Which is a fair enough argument.

Arrow312

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

fizzylu wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

How big is the map for GW2? I am just genuinely curious because maybe some of the difference is just the number of instances and map size since ESO just has so many zones and things to do. Maybe GW2 has the same but idk.

GW2 also has many zones and it also has different instances depending on how many players are in one zone. There's even a prompt that will pop up if your instance of the current zone you're in is emptying out and closing down to move you over to a more populated one.

I do know GW2 has a higher player cap per instance, but it also doesn't use a megaserver like ESO.... and from my experience playing both games, I'd say a single GW2 server usually feels just as populated as the entire NA server of ESO. Take what you will from that....
And I see a lot of people here bringing up the graphics of ESO, even slightly insinuating ESO is better because of them, and even commenting on how the higher graphic requirements can also be why ESO doesn't perform as well (as if that's a good excuse).... which is kind of the point, isn't it? What good is graphics if the game runs like garbage and results in a world that feels dead?

The devs behind GW2 knew how to create a MMO of actual quality because even without the "better graphics" or a megaserver.... that games physics, the existence of cloaks, flowing robes/dresses, not even just swimming but underwater combat, flying, and so much more with close to zero performance or connection issues, put GW2 miles ahead of ESO in terms of overall quality and life within the game.

Thanks for the information. Same goes to everyone else who gave me info, appreciate it.

So it seems that on their servers they have a combo of NA and EU from what I am gathering from info and this token system also had it so more players were in the picture. Plus, getting kicked out of an empty instance is different, that is definitely not in ESO so that might make ESO seem deader when more players might just be in another instance.

I also looked up the game and it’s not that companies first MMO so that really matters, they’ve made them for a long time. I think for ZOS it might be the first or second they’ve worked on so still kinda green (some devs came from Dark Age of Camelot) . Plus GW2 is free to play so that will always bring in more players since games can be crazy expensive now.

Rationalize it if you must, but I know for sure which game feels fuller and livelier.



Here we are at the start of what is perhaps ESO's most-loved event, open to all players who only have the base game, with some quest changes to shake things up again and bring old players back. Compare that to the screenshot I posted before of a run-of-the-mill world boss event that happens every single day...

I think the major problem here (besides performance driving players away) is that ZOS increasingly caters to a solo-focused player base. That epic feeling of participating with many others on a grand scale is going away a little more with every update. For those who want ESO to be "Skyrim with optional friends," this is likely a good thing. But for those of us who wanted an MMO (with emphasis on the "massively" part of that abbreviation) set in Tamriel, it isn't. Major hubs feel increasingly lifeless. Craglorn in particular is a ghost town. It's just kind of sad, compared to what it was.

While our halloween event looks same, here a cheeky look at belkarth and cyro lol.

7 Pm PRIME TIME

Was to early, there are holidays in Germany, it is fall ppl are outside xD just joking. This was often a thing when i logged in on Xbox EU. As some others wrote especialy on consoles there are now others games with higher Population or if you want to play solo there are DD2 or Dragon Age 4 coming soon.

EU console servers seem dying and no one cares. i thinking some will also leave because there is no option for server transfer or crossplay.

fizzylu

Taril wrote: »

Which means... Yes, in fact it wasn't solely due to performance issues that they cut capes.

No, but it was the main reason. They made that abundantly clear when the game launched without capes and more and more feedback requesting them to be added kept coming up.

Taril wrote: »

How is it odd? If things generally don't look very good in other games... Then why should people copy these things from other games?

It is your opinion that they don't look good in other games, majority of people I know and have seen or personally discussed the subject of capes with think they look fine and would prefer a game have them than none at all. I've seen someone on the ESO forums even say they would have been okay with that shoddy cape in the picture I posted earlier.... which is a bit wild, but either way.... many don't think the capes that exist in games look terrible and unappealing. And as someone who doesn't mind the way capes look in most games, yes, I find it a bit strange that some people act like they're the worst thing to ever grace their vision.... which is why I simply said we would never agree on this specific point and there's no meaning in the two of us discussing it.

Taril wrote: »

It's not a weird point to bring up.

The way that WoW cuts corners on robes leads to bad graphical results. It saves on performance (Due to not needing to render the legs) and is easier to implement (Since you don't have to account animations causing clipping - Though, this is moot in regards to WoW given its lack of cloth physics)

I've not said anything about the quality of ESO's robes. I don't know why you'd bring that up, since my comment regarding WoW's robes was about performance vs quality and that going for performance often leads to poorer quality results. It wasn't anything to do with who (If anyone) did robes better or worse.

And that was my point though? You brought up WoW's robes to what I could only interpret as a way to argue that doing something low quality is worse than not doing it at all.... meanwhile ESO has even worse quality robes though? And had far worse quality capes yet they still tanked the games performance?
So yes, weird to bring that up when my main stance on this whole subject has been that Zenimax did most things in the creation of ESO questionably and not well (again.... be it the robes, their terrible capes, and more-- even things that aren't just visual like how the game performs and stability). And once again, it is your opinion that WoW has bad graphical results.

Taril wrote: »

In what way is it flawed?

The idea of a series is to have a cohesive theme. Older games (Set AFTER ESO in timeline, which can be a significant factor in implementing certain things) set a visual theme for the IP, one that didn't involve capes.

Suddenly implementing capes out of nowhere for no reason doesn't fit the overall theme that was set by the numerous games in the series.

One could argue that given the nature of the game (With all its fancy skins, costumes, shiny pets, shiny mounts and all sorts of other stuff) that there is less issue with going against the IP's themes and adding in capes. Which is a fair enough argument.

It's flawed because the idea that the series doesn't have capes because of everything you just said is all speculation, and to the sound of my ears, a cop-out.... especially when you consider the age of those previous games and the technical limitations of the gaming industry then.
I mean, seriously.... even ESO concept art is riddled with capes, and they clearly wanted to include capes but just failed miserably. And it's going to be extra funny if when TES 6 releases there are full capes in it, and technically Skyrim DID have capes (there was a half cape on the Nightingale armor set and I believe dragon priests also had a cape-like thing on them). So yes, it is flawed logic. I mean, following that kind of thinking then ESO should of had swimming, no classes, unarmed spellcasting, etc. Yet it doesn't.

But I am done here for good now.

Arrow312

Amottica wrote: »

1

Arrow312 wrote: »

5.) ESO doesn’t have any events that bring people together, so it’s irrelevant to post screenshots from other games where there are hundreds of players clustered around an event boss during the middle of the day on a weekday.

-Tbf ESO had some sort of this events when Carglorn was for groups but they decided to change it.

Imo the game is to focus on "casuals" today, things like Brokensoul and the Open World killed group play. Because you can do to much things solo. It should be hard or nearly impossible to do group content solo but nowadays you can do nearly everything solo. So the MMO effect step more and more away.

I read some threads in german forum where people complained that they couldnt do things solo and need others....thats weird for me because you play an MMO

Thx for pointing that out as it is what I have been saying. We lack those major fights that require a large number of players and lack the systems to bring people to those fights.

I saw this when i tried to farm the lead for SSC on the world boss. Most of the time i was alone there and was able to kill the Worldboss. Or the daily boss quest, you can do to many of those quest solo. So there is no need to interact or play with others.

Amottica

Elsonso wrote: »

"It'll happen eventually"

That, I will believe when I see it. They have also said a lot of people are still on the older platforms. Shutting them off is not going to be just a ZOS decision. I have to think that XBox and Playstation are going to have an opinion on the matter.

Other than XBox and Zenimax are both owned by MS, Xbox will not have a say in ESO abandoning support for older consoles. Yes, they may have an opinion, but at the end of the day, it is a business decision Zenimax would make concerning abandoning the support of an older platform.

A better example is that none of Sony's or PlayStation's businesses knows which generations of consoles Zenimax chooses to support. It comes down to having enough players to support the game financially on the PlayStation platform. This is no different than when Zenimax chose to stop supporting older CPUs or DirectX. Back then, Zenimax decided the enhancements they could make to the game outweighed the loss of players who would no longer be able to play the game. It is that simple.

MISTFORMBZZZ

Arrow312 wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

fizzylu wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

How big is the map for GW2? I am just genuinely curious because maybe some of the difference is just the number of instances and map size since ESO just has so many zones and things to do. Maybe GW2 has the same but idk.

GW2 also has many zones and it also has different instances depending on how many players are in one zone. There's even a prompt that will pop up if your instance of the current zone you're in is emptying out and closing down to move you over to a more populated one.

I do know GW2 has a higher player cap per instance, but it also doesn't use a megaserver like ESO.... and from my experience playing both games, I'd say a single GW2 server usually feels just as populated as the entire NA server of ESO. Take what you will from that....
And I see a lot of people here bringing up the graphics of ESO, even slightly insinuating ESO is better because of them, and even commenting on how the higher graphic requirements can also be why ESO doesn't perform as well (as if that's a good excuse).... which is kind of the point, isn't it? What good is graphics if the game runs like garbage and results in a world that feels dead?

The devs behind GW2 knew how to create a MMO of actual quality because even without the "better graphics" or a megaserver.... that games physics, the existence of cloaks, flowing robes/dresses, not even just swimming but underwater combat, flying, and so much more with close to zero performance or connection issues, put GW2 miles ahead of ESO in terms of overall quality and life within the game.

Thanks for the information. Same goes to everyone else who gave me info, appreciate it.

So it seems that on their servers they have a combo of NA and EU from what I am gathering from info and this token system also had it so more players were in the picture. Plus, getting kicked out of an empty instance is different, that is definitely not in ESO so that might make ESO seem deader when more players might just be in another instance.

I also looked up the game and it’s not that companies first MMO so that really matters, they’ve made them for a long time. I think for ZOS it might be the first or second they’ve worked on so still kinda green (some devs came from Dark Age of Camelot) . Plus GW2 is free to play so that will always bring in more players since games can be crazy expensive now.

Rationalize it if you must, but I know for sure which game feels fuller and livelier.



Here we are at the start of what is perhaps ESO's most-loved event, open to all players who only have the base game, with some quest changes to shake things up again and bring old players back. Compare that to the screenshot I posted before of a run-of-the-mill world boss event that happens every single day...

I think the major problem here (besides performance driving players away) is that ZOS increasingly caters to a solo-focused player base. That epic feeling of participating with many others on a grand scale is going away a little more with every update. For those who want ESO to be "Skyrim with optional friends," this is likely a good thing. But for those of us who wanted an MMO (with emphasis on the "massively" part of that abbreviation) set in Tamriel, it isn't. Major hubs feel increasingly lifeless. Craglorn in particular is a ghost town. It's just kind of sad, compared to what it was.

While our halloween event looks same, here a cheeky look at belkarth and cyro lol.

7 Pm PRIME TIME

Was to early, there are holidays in Germany, it is fall ppl are outside xD just joking. This was often a thing when i logged in on Xbox EU. As some others wrote especialy on consoles there are now others games with higher Population or if you want to play solo there are DD2 or Dragon Age 4 coming soon.

EU console servers seem dying and no one cares. i thinking some will also leave because there is no option for server transfer or crossplay.

Yeah some like 90% of my guilds and me included who just is logging in for 3 min per day to get the daily rewards and checking population & then logging off.

Canceled ESO Plus after 9 years and dont even have bank space anymore.

Not pay to win, pay to be even playable.

But why would i on an empty server.

If zos fixes that and decides to bring crossplay i will gladly renew my sub and spend money again on this game.

Arrow312

Was the same by me. No more then 20 ppl online from 300. Most just logged in for trials or just to got the daily rewards.
I think we see this "empty" places because we have more or less the same Timezones in EU most of the time it is just 1-2 hours different not like in the US.

I dont think that they will spend money for crossplay or even server tranfers. Just milk the cow to the end. The spike topic is now around 6 months and still nothing. Same with the server upgrade for x EU. Ppl leave because of things like this and dont come back. It seems like console EU servers are the unloved thing you have to support them but dont really want it.

i often thought when there are crown store problems they fixed it asap but game breaking things...with the next update.

Pelanora

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Well they did sunset support for 32 bit Windows PCs shortly after the Morrowind DLC dropped. So they will continue to increase the hardware requirements as they see fit. And it's only logical that at some point they will cease coding around the limitations of the 1st gen consoles. They have the numbers on who plays on what rigs, and perhaps when the number of 1st gen console users drops to a certain point, they will raise the hardware requirements accordingly. But, without them sharing a roadmap with us, we can only speculate.

At this point, I don't expect they have such a roadmap. They have said a lot of people are still playing on older consoles, and we can probably add older PCs to that. I don't see that there is a business reason to chase them off, or they would be doing it. They chased PC players off older hardware more than once, so we know they are willing to do it when they can.

They can keep rearranging the luggage to fit inside the older consoles for a while longer.

At what point do they decide that keeping a few players running antiquated systems outweighs the loss of frustrated players who are leaving due to chronic performance issues and game stagnation due to the current coding limits? First gen console players will get bored and leave as well. They will also move to other games as Cyrodiil goes unfixed and unupdated.

Is it not reasonable to assume that an enhanced and improved ESO would draw more players in the future? Would more players stick around (or old ones come back) if they were technically able to raise the housing item limits? There are many reasons for them to grow the ESO legacy and player involvement. The question is, at what point will they be willing to bring the game up to current standards while risking losing players on older, antiquated systems?

This

ZOS has already said that old consoles hold them back from adding stuff. Memory issues are the reasons for a lot of things not getting changed or added.

Yea but.... isn't that the ict version of a line by Sir Humphrey in yes minister? Bollocks but it deals with the minister?

Elsonso

fizzylu wrote: »

Taril wrote: »

Which means... Yes, in fact it wasn't solely due to performance issues that they cut capes.

No, but it was the main reason. They made that abundantly clear when the game launched without capes and more and more feedback requesting them to be added kept coming up.

A misunderstanding. Different definitions of "performance". To summarize what the ZOS rigger said at GDC, the reason for no capes was DX9 bone limits and weapon docking. The DX9 bone limit meant that they could not allocate enough bones to the cape for it to look good when animated. They chose to do weapon docking instead. It was performance, but performance in terms of how it appeared in the game.

If they had developed ESO on DX10 instead of DX9, we might have had both weapon docking and capes.

Since they eventually had an issue with animations and older consoles that stopped development of new animations for something like 6 months while they repacked the luggage, the lack of cape animations probably helped.

Amottica wrote: »

Other than XBox and Zenimax are both owned by MS, Xbox will not have a say in ESO abandoning support for older consoles. Yes, they may have an opinion, but at the end of the day, it is a business decision Zenimax would make concerning abandoning the support of an older platform.

Maybe they don't care, maybe they have an objection. Maybe they view it as a way to get the laggards off the pot and upgrade, or maybe they view it as a backwards compatibility issue. Maybe they don't care about ESO because it doesn't have enough players and revenue to matter either way. All I am saying is that I don't think it is entirely up to ZOS like it was with dropping old PC hardware.

As for retaining players... I don't think that capes are going to attract players. I would be surprised if ZOS went to all the effort to re-rig the game on DX10/11 so that they could have capes. That is an expensive and dangerous move, since every character and NPC in the game will be affected.

I question whether ZOS is going to kick players off of older consoles and invest in upgrades that reap the benefits of the newer consoles. They might jettison the older consoles just to make more headroom room for the status quo, though.

KromedeTheCorrupt

ZOS has stated in their own words even if there is a small portion of players on old consoles they would not drop support. So theoretically that also means if they lose 1K players on newer consoles due to hardware limitations, lag, dc, whatever because of old hardware. Thats just how it’s going to be, even if it means keeping those 100 players who still play on old consoles. So it’s a lose/lose situation where everybody else has to suffer because of people still playing old consoles. I mean if you can’t buy a newer system with all due respect why are you playing video games and not working if your finances are that bad.

Elsonso

KromedeTheCorrupt wrote: »

ZOS has stated in their own words even if there is a small portion of players on old consoles they would not drop support. So theoretically that also means if they lose 1K players on newer consoles due to hardware limitations, lag, dc, whatever because of old hardware. Thats just how it’s going to be, even if it means keeping those 100 players who still play on old consoles. So it’s a lose/lose situation where everybody else has to suffer because of people still playing old consoles. I mean if you can’t buy a newer system with all due respect why are you playing video games and not working if your finances are that bad.

Because it is cheaper to stay on functional older hardware to play ESO than to buy a new console. They have to buy platform network access, but that is still cheaper than buying the network access and the new console.

Taril

fizzylu wrote: »

It is your opinion that they don't look good in other games, majority of people I know and have seen or personally discussed the subject of capes with think they look fine and would prefer a game have them than none at all.

True.

But to say my opinion is "Odd" is itself odd. People can have opinions y'know and I qualifty (If barely) as a person.

fizzylu wrote: »

And that was my point though? You brought up WoW's robes to what I could only interpret as a way to argue that doing something low quality is worse than not doing it at all.... meanwhile ESO has even worse quality robes though? And had far worse quality capes yet they still tanked the games performance?

But the quality of ESO's robes are still irrelevant to the point I was making.

Cutting corners can lead to worse results. WoW's cut corners lead to results that are worse than if they didn't cut corners (This doesn't mean "Bad" just "Worse. It's an objective fact that not having disembodied feet and rigid capes is a worse result than the ideal of still rendering legs and having a cloth physics enabled cape)

If ESO's results already are considered "Bad", and they could be made "Worse" by cutting corners while trying to implement something while retaining performance, that would be an overall negative.

My overall opinion on which game looks "Good" or "Bad" is completely irrelevant to this point of argument.


So yes, weird to bring that up when my main stance on this whole subject has been that Zenimax did most things in the creation of ESO questionably and not well (again.... be it the robes, their terrible capes, and more-- even things that aren't just visual like how the game performs and stability). And once again, it is your opinion that WoW has bad graphical results.

fizzylu wrote: »

It's flawed because the idea that the series doesn't have capes because of everything you just said is all speculation, and to the sound of my ears, a cop-out...

Except, it's true. Each game provided parts to an overarching theme. Just like how its design of the different races is a part of its overall theme, its design of Dwemer stuff is part of its overarching theme, the design of its zones are part of its overarching theme etc.

No other TES game has reinvented the aesthetic theme that all prior games have set. Therefore it can be considered that ESO shouldn't (Or at least during a time when development of capes was being tested, it was considered) reinvent.

fizzylu wrote: »

especially when you consider the age of those previous games and the technical limitations of the gaming industry then.

You mean the technical limitations that many older games somehow managed to circumvent to add in capes into their games?

Plenty of games back in the day had capes (Also, saying something like "Skyrim" was beholden to technical limitations as why it didn't have capes - Besides a few small numbers of examples)

fizzylu wrote: »

I mean, following that kind of thinking then ESO should of had swimming, no classes, unarmed spellcasting, etc.

Ahh yes... Swimming, classes and unarmed spellcasting are definitely parts of the overarching aesthetics of TES and not mechanical decisions (Also... ESO does have swimming. It also has unarmed spellcasting (Literally every non-Staff based spell ability uses unarmed casts and poofs away your weapon to cast something))

Also, yes, people do use similar arguments for other things that appear in the game. Hence my aforementioned reference to where ESO places in the timeline - People make arguments surrounding things like the implementation of Arcanists due to the fact that such abilites are not found later in the timeline (In the older games)

How much weight each argument has varies, and it is always possible to argue both sides of them. However, that these arguments can exist means there's at least some validity to them.

fizzylu wrote: »

But I am done here for good now.

You know you don't need to announce your leaving on a forum? You can just... Not post a reply?

Bammlschwamml

KromedeTheCorrupt wrote: »

ZOS has stated in their own words even if there is a small portion of players on old consoles they would not drop support. So theoretically that also means if they lose 1K players on newer consoles due to hardware limitations, lag, dc, whatever because of old hardware. Thats just how it’s going to be, even if it means keeping those 100 players who still play on old consoles. So it’s a lose/lose situation where everybody else has to suffer because of people still playing old consoles. I mean if you can’t buy a newer system with all due respect why are you playing video games and not working if your finances are that bad.

So instead of questioning the motives and actions of the responsible billion dollar companies (with all the power and money in the world), we just blame the millions of people who pay for it all, but have no influence whatsoever? And while we are at it we call them lazy poor losers, just to show them who's boss? This seems to be a classic and popular way to look at the world, but i doubt it will solve any of our problems.

OtarTheMad

KromedeTheCorrupt wrote: »

ZOS has stated in their own words even if there is a small portion of players on old consoles they would not drop support. So theoretically that also means if they lose 1K players on newer consoles due to hardware limitations, lag, dc, whatever because of old hardware. Thats just how it’s going to be, even if it means keeping those 100 players who still play on old consoles. So it’s a lose/lose situation where everybody else has to suffer because of people still playing old consoles. I mean if you can’t buy a newer system with all due respect why are you playing video games and not working if your finances are that bad.

This is why I think that they have some sort of distribution contract with Sony and Xbox and have to release content on them until a certain date. ZOS ain’t dumb, if they’ve been saying for years that they will support old consoles but also say it holds them back, something else must be going on. You don’t screw your business over for a small portion unless you have to. OR they have dumb and PS and Xbox gave them the green light years ago and they don’t push the button, that’d be crazy odd tho.

manukartofanu

OtarTheMad wrote: »

KromedeTheCorrupt wrote: »

ZOS has stated in their own words even if there is a small portion of players on old consoles they would not drop support. So theoretically that also means if they lose 1K players on newer consoles due to hardware limitations, lag, dc, whatever because of old hardware. Thats just how it’s going to be, even if it means keeping those 100 players who still play on old consoles. So it’s a lose/lose situation where everybody else has to suffer because of people still playing old consoles. I mean if you can’t buy a newer system with all due respect why are you playing video games and not working if your finances are that bad.

This is why I think that they have some sort of distribution contract with Sony and Xbox and have to release content on them until a certain date. ZOS ain’t dumb, if they’ve been saying for years that they will support old consoles but also say it holds them back, something else must be going on. You don’t screw your business over for a small portion unless you have to. OR they have dumb and PS and Xbox gave them the green light years ago and they don’t push the button, that’d be crazy odd tho.

It’s important to remember that there are two types of management: management that invests in project development, optimizes processes, and strives to increase revenue to boost profits; and management that focuses on cutting costs to achieve higher profits by reducing expenses.

KromedeTheCorrupt

Bammlschwamml wrote: »

KromedeTheCorrupt wrote: »

ZOS has stated in their own words even if there is a small portion of players on old consoles they would not drop support. So theoretically that also means if they lose 1K players on newer consoles due to hardware limitations, lag, dc, whatever because of old hardware. Thats just how it’s going to be, even if it means keeping those 100 players who still play on old consoles. So it’s a lose/lose situation where everybody else has to suffer because of people still playing old consoles. I mean if you can’t buy a newer system with all due respect why are you playing video games and not working if your finances are that bad.

So instead of questioning the motives and actions of the responsible billion dollar companies (with all the power and money in the world), we just blame the millions of people who pay for it all, but have no influence whatsoever? And while we are at it we call them lazy poor losers, just to show them who's boss? This seems to be a classic and popular way to look at the world, but i doubt it will solve any of our problems.

Because ZOS the billion dollar company has no care in the world to fix any problems. That much is evident in a 10 year old game that is falling apart at the seams. Also not knocking or calling people on old hardware losers but that’s the same mindset of having a computer from the 90s and expecting companies to bend their game to your system requirements. People scoff at the idea of people having to upgrade their consoles but refuse to acknowledge that’s also why everybody else has to suffer. It’s 2024 if you still have Xbox 360 then enjoy the games made for the Xbox 360 not an mmo. It’s that cut and dry,

Coo_PnT

ZeniMax Media is simply following Microsoft's wishes. Nothing you say here on this forum is going to make any difference. In fact, the comunity manager is just there to vaguely muddy everything and extend a response. Am I being banned from this forum for this statement?