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• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – September 30, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
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What is the intended counterplay to "ball groups" in PVP?
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mdjessup4906✭✭✭You know what really happened. Zos saw the whiners in the battlegrounds thread, got scared about their brand new investment and jumped the gun.3 -
CrazyKitty✭✭✭✭✭CatoUnchained wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: ».ForumSavant wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »Anyone saying that the counter to a ball group should be another ball group has a severe lack of understanding to why ball groups exist.
Players don’t ball up to take a map, they do it to farm AP off of others as a tried and true gold farming method.
They don’t do it for the challenge, and they aren’t looking to fight other ball groups, oftentimes, the leaders of said groups will communicate with enemy groups just to be SURE that they don’t run into one another.
Players that are getting grieved by ball groups should have a means of building to protect others, and that’s what Azureblight was.
All players had to do were spread out, I’m sure a coordinated group could manage that? Right?
This is the most common misconception I see on here. It's what most pugs spread amongst themselves. Most ballgroups look for fights against other ballgroups, the ballgroups that often times lose those fights obviously don't want to engage in them, but will still to kill other ballgroups if they see them fighting another group. Ballgrouos don't secretly message each other to avoid each other lol
I can't remember the last time I witnessed a ball group fighting another ball group. The last time I saw a ball vs. ball situation was at least 3 years ago and when we had 24 man group size and a much, much higher population cap.
Then you just aren't playing the game. There are multiple streams of people who ballgroup that constantly engage with other ballgroups and kill each other. Streams aside, I can enter cyro almost any day of the week and find different groups fighting each other, not avoiding. People spread the weirdest misinformation on the forums and it's usually the people who lack any type of PvP experience.
It's virtually guaranteed I have more PvP experience than you and almost anyone else. I have 5 GO's on my main account and run in guild raid for 2 hours every day, and an additional 1-6 hours solo every day since 2015. I have 3 accounts, one for each faction, because back when Cyrodiil was in it's hey day I had friends I wanted to play with on every faction. I'm in the top 1% of players who've spent the most time in ESO and PvP is my main focus because it's never boring.
It's a fact that ball groups very rarely fight each other. The pop cap is so low now it's uncommon for any faction to have more than one ball group running at a time now days. Remember, a zerg is not a ball group. And beyond that, there aren't but a fraction of ESO streamers that there were in the past. They've almost all moved on to other games that can support their "job".
Just because you make up stories doesn't make it "fact." You said you haven't seen ballgroups fight each other in 3 years, there's no way that is the case. I can show you vods of 6 different ballgroups fighting each other in just the last week. This is the case every week. Stop pushing false narratives to try and get your way, this is why nothing actually gets done about it, because they look at random comments that just aren't true and move on.
Can you post those vods?
Bobby constantly runs his group into other groups and attempts to zerg them down.
Paleorc usually deletes his vod but this is the most recent one he kept up
Novellli always looks to fight other groups
Temperedone also streams them fighting other ballgroups weekly
These fights happen daily and people who play want to act like they don't fight each other, I never see them back off fighting each other unless they are waiting for one to siege the door down so they can get in behind them.
Bobby does not run a ball group. Paleorc also does not run a ball group. Are you sure you know what a ball group is? You appear to not know the difference between a ball group and and just a bunch of players in the same place at the same time. I can't speak to the other videos because I only play PC NA, but you definitely missed the mark by a mile with claiming Bobby runs a ball group. Bobby actually spends most of his time just standing around apparently AFK. Paleorc usually plays solo, but he does occasionally play in a group, but it's not a ball group. Not all groups are ball groups.
Uhhhhh no....... Paleorc is not solo, he hasn't been solo in years, he will occasionally be but he primarily now plays in a group. LoM IS a coordinated ballgroup, idk what kind of definition you are basing yours off of but it seems to be inherently wrong. Bobbys group is just a bunch of pugs said to build blight or some random meta set and follow him around, they are not coordinated in anyway nor have ever been, and also the only reason they attack other groups is because his entire group runs blightseed, matter of fact he usually sits around the faction because his group alone cannot even handle fighting a ballgroup half the time. Lastly, most ballgroups DO fight eachother, what makes you think they don't?ForumSavant wrote: »CatoUnchained wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: ».ForumSavant wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »Anyone saying that the counter to a ball group should be another ball group has a severe lack of understanding to why ball groups exist.
Players don’t ball up to take a map, they do it to farm AP off of others as a tried and true gold farming method.
They don’t do it for the challenge, and they aren’t looking to fight other ball groups, oftentimes, the leaders of said groups will communicate with enemy groups just to be SURE that they don’t run into one another.
Players that are getting grieved by ball groups should have a means of building to protect others, and that’s what Azureblight was.
All players had to do were spread out, I’m sure a coordinated group could manage that? Right?
This is the most common misconception I see on here. It's what most pugs spread amongst themselves. Most ballgroups look for fights against other ballgroups, the ballgroups that often times lose those fights obviously don't want to engage in them, but will still to kill other ballgroups if they see them fighting another group. Ballgrouos don't secretly message each other to avoid each other lol
I can't remember the last time I witnessed a ball group fighting another ball group. The last time I saw a ball vs. ball situation was at least 3 years ago and when we had 24 man group size and a much, much higher population cap.
Then you just aren't playing the game. There are multiple streams of people who ballgroup that constantly engage with other ballgroups and kill each other. Streams aside, I can enter cyro almost any day of the week and find different groups fighting each other, not avoiding. People spread the weirdest misinformation on the forums and it's usually the people who lack any type of PvP experience.
It's virtually guaranteed I have more PvP experience than you and almost anyone else. I have 5 GO's on my main account and run in guild raid for 2 hours every day, and an additional 1-6 hours solo every day since 2015. I have 3 accounts, one for each faction, because back when Cyrodiil was in it's hey day I had friends I wanted to play with on every faction. I'm in the top 1% of players who've spent the most time in ESO and PvP is my main focus because it's never boring.
It's a fact that ball groups very rarely fight each other. The pop cap is so low now it's uncommon for any faction to have more than one ball group running at a time now days. Remember, a zerg is not a ball group. And beyond that, there aren't but a fraction of ESO streamers that there were in the past. They've almost all moved on to other games that can support their "job".
Just because you make up stories doesn't make it "fact." You said you haven't seen ballgroups fight each other in 3 years, there's no way that is the case. I can show you vods of 6 different ballgroups fighting each other in just the last week. This is the case every week. Stop pushing false narratives to try and get your way, this is why nothing actually gets done about it, because they look at random comments that just aren't true and move on.
Can you post those vods?
Bobby constantly runs his group into other groups and attempts to zerg them down.
Paleorc usually deletes his vod but this is the most recent one he kept up
Novellli always looks to fight other groups
Temperedone also streams them fighting other ballgroups weekly
These fights happen daily and people who play want to act like they don't fight each other, I never see them back off fighting each other unless they are waiting for one to siege the door down so they can get in behind them.
Bobby does not run a ball group. Paleorc also does not run a ball group. Are you sure you know what a ball group is? You appear to not know the difference between a ball group and and just a bunch of players in the same place at the same time. I can't speak to the other videos because I only play PC NA, but you definitely missed the mark by a mile with claiming Bobby runs a ball group. Bobby actually spends most of his time just standing around apparently AFK. Paleorc usually plays solo, but he does occasionally play in a group, but it's not a ball group. Not all groups are ball groups.
I also play on PC NA every day. What you see happening is exactly the same thing I see happening.
There are groups and there are ball groups. They are very different. Anyone can form a group and benefit from cross healing. Forming a ball group is a totally different thing. Ball group builds tend to be so specialized that they are totally impotent outside of the group. Seems like only those of us who've actually played in ball groups before know the difference.
What are some ballgroups on PC/NA then?
Indriks, LoM, Fake News, Adrestria, Enchiladas, 3.5, SLAYER, BONED, Barcodes, Xans Army, Army Of The Covenant, Wolves Of Fenris, Jaegers, Kids With Issues, Nefarrius 51, Wolves of Evermore, F-Tier.
Prob more that im not remembering.
Slayer is getting close to being a ball group, but they aren't quite there yet. Xans army isn't even close. N51 is an official ball group. Kids with issues are trying, but not a ball group. Tyr was probably the most extreme ball group I know of, but I might be biased because I ran with them for a while, but they retired.1 -
ForumSavant✭✭✭✭CrazyKitty wrote: »CatoUnchained wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: ».ForumSavant wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »Anyone saying that the counter to a ball group should be another ball group has a severe lack of understanding to why ball groups exist.
Players don’t ball up to take a map, they do it to farm AP off of others as a tried and true gold farming method.
They don’t do it for the challenge, and they aren’t looking to fight other ball groups, oftentimes, the leaders of said groups will communicate with enemy groups just to be SURE that they don’t run into one another.
Players that are getting grieved by ball groups should have a means of building to protect others, and that’s what Azureblight was.
All players had to do were spread out, I’m sure a coordinated group could manage that? Right?
This is the most common misconception I see on here. It's what most pugs spread amongst themselves. Most ballgroups look for fights against other ballgroups, the ballgroups that often times lose those fights obviously don't want to engage in them, but will still to kill other ballgroups if they see them fighting another group. Ballgrouos don't secretly message each other to avoid each other lol
I can't remember the last time I witnessed a ball group fighting another ball group. The last time I saw a ball vs. ball situation was at least 3 years ago and when we had 24 man group size and a much, much higher population cap.
Then you just aren't playing the game. There are multiple streams of people who ballgroup that constantly engage with other ballgroups and kill each other. Streams aside, I can enter cyro almost any day of the week and find different groups fighting each other, not avoiding. People spread the weirdest misinformation on the forums and it's usually the people who lack any type of PvP experience.
It's virtually guaranteed I have more PvP experience than you and almost anyone else. I have 5 GO's on my main account and run in guild raid for 2 hours every day, and an additional 1-6 hours solo every day since 2015. I have 3 accounts, one for each faction, because back when Cyrodiil was in it's hey day I had friends I wanted to play with on every faction. I'm in the top 1% of players who've spent the most time in ESO and PvP is my main focus because it's never boring.
It's a fact that ball groups very rarely fight each other. The pop cap is so low now it's uncommon for any faction to have more than one ball group running at a time now days. Remember, a zerg is not a ball group. And beyond that, there aren't but a fraction of ESO streamers that there were in the past. They've almost all moved on to other games that can support their "job".
Just because you make up stories doesn't make it "fact." You said you haven't seen ballgroups fight each other in 3 years, there's no way that is the case. I can show you vods of 6 different ballgroups fighting each other in just the last week. This is the case every week. Stop pushing false narratives to try and get your way, this is why nothing actually gets done about it, because they look at random comments that just aren't true and move on.
Can you post those vods?
Bobby constantly runs his group into other groups and attempts to zerg them down.
Paleorc usually deletes his vod but this is the most recent one he kept up
Novellli always looks to fight other groups
Temperedone also streams them fighting other ballgroups weekly
These fights happen daily and people who play want to act like they don't fight each other, I never see them back off fighting each other unless they are waiting for one to siege the door down so they can get in behind them.
Bobby does not run a ball group. Paleorc also does not run a ball group. Are you sure you know what a ball group is? You appear to not know the difference between a ball group and and just a bunch of players in the same place at the same time. I can't speak to the other videos because I only play PC NA, but you definitely missed the mark by a mile with claiming Bobby runs a ball group. Bobby actually spends most of his time just standing around apparently AFK. Paleorc usually plays solo, but he does occasionally play in a group, but it's not a ball group. Not all groups are ball groups.
Uhhhhh no....... Paleorc is not solo, he hasn't been solo in years, he will occasionally be but he primarily now plays in a group. LoM IS a coordinated ballgroup, idk what kind of definition you are basing yours off of but it seems to be inherently wrong. Bobbys group is just a bunch of pugs said to build blight or some random meta set and follow him around, they are not coordinated in anyway nor have ever been, and also the only reason they attack other groups is because his entire group runs blightseed, matter of fact he usually sits around the faction because his group alone cannot even handle fighting a ballgroup half the time. Lastly, most ballgroups DO fight eachother, what makes you think they don't?ForumSavant wrote: »CatoUnchained wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: ».ForumSavant wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »Anyone saying that the counter to a ball group should be another ball group has a severe lack of understanding to why ball groups exist.
Players don’t ball up to take a map, they do it to farm AP off of others as a tried and true gold farming method.
They don’t do it for the challenge, and they aren’t looking to fight other ball groups, oftentimes, the leaders of said groups will communicate with enemy groups just to be SURE that they don’t run into one another.
Players that are getting grieved by ball groups should have a means of building to protect others, and that’s what Azureblight was.
All players had to do were spread out, I’m sure a coordinated group could manage that? Right?
This is the most common misconception I see on here. It's what most pugs spread amongst themselves. Most ballgroups look for fights against other ballgroups, the ballgroups that often times lose those fights obviously don't want to engage in them, but will still to kill other ballgroups if they see them fighting another group. Ballgrouos don't secretly message each other to avoid each other lol
I can't remember the last time I witnessed a ball group fighting another ball group. The last time I saw a ball vs. ball situation was at least 3 years ago and when we had 24 man group size and a much, much higher population cap.
Then you just aren't playing the game. There are multiple streams of people who ballgroup that constantly engage with other ballgroups and kill each other. Streams aside, I can enter cyro almost any day of the week and find different groups fighting each other, not avoiding. People spread the weirdest misinformation on the forums and it's usually the people who lack any type of PvP experience.
It's virtually guaranteed I have more PvP experience than you and almost anyone else. I have 5 GO's on my main account and run in guild raid for 2 hours every day, and an additional 1-6 hours solo every day since 2015. I have 3 accounts, one for each faction, because back when Cyrodiil was in it's hey day I had friends I wanted to play with on every faction. I'm in the top 1% of players who've spent the most time in ESO and PvP is my main focus because it's never boring.
It's a fact that ball groups very rarely fight each other. The pop cap is so low now it's uncommon for any faction to have more than one ball group running at a time now days. Remember, a zerg is not a ball group. And beyond that, there aren't but a fraction of ESO streamers that there were in the past. They've almost all moved on to other games that can support their "job".
Just because you make up stories doesn't make it "fact." You said you haven't seen ballgroups fight each other in 3 years, there's no way that is the case. I can show you vods of 6 different ballgroups fighting each other in just the last week. This is the case every week. Stop pushing false narratives to try and get your way, this is why nothing actually gets done about it, because they look at random comments that just aren't true and move on.
Can you post those vods?
Bobby constantly runs his group into other groups and attempts to zerg them down.
Paleorc usually deletes his vod but this is the most recent one he kept up
Novellli always looks to fight other groups
Temperedone also streams them fighting other ballgroups weekly
These fights happen daily and people who play want to act like they don't fight each other, I never see them back off fighting each other unless they are waiting for one to siege the door down so they can get in behind them.
Bobby does not run a ball group. Paleorc also does not run a ball group. Are you sure you know what a ball group is? You appear to not know the difference between a ball group and and just a bunch of players in the same place at the same time. I can't speak to the other videos because I only play PC NA, but you definitely missed the mark by a mile with claiming Bobby runs a ball group. Bobby actually spends most of his time just standing around apparently AFK. Paleorc usually plays solo, but he does occasionally play in a group, but it's not a ball group. Not all groups are ball groups.
I also play on PC NA every day. What you see happening is exactly the same thing I see happening.
There are groups and there are ball groups. They are very different. Anyone can form a group and benefit from cross healing. Forming a ball group is a totally different thing. Ball group builds tend to be so specialized that they are totally impotent outside of the group. Seems like only those of us who've actually played in ball groups before know the difference.
What are some ballgroups on PC/NA then?
Indriks, LoM, Fake News, Adrestria, Enchiladas, 3.5, SLAYER, BONED, Barcodes, Xans Army, Army Of The Covenant, Wolves Of Fenris, Jaegers, Kids With Issues, Nefarrius 51, Wolves of Evermore, F-Tier.
Prob more that im not remembering.
Slayer is getting close to being a ball group, but they aren't quite there yet. Xans army isn't even close. N51 is an official ball group. Kids with issues are trying, but not a ball group. Tyr was probably the most extreme ball group I know of, but I might be biased because I ran with them for a while, but they retired.
What does this comment even mean, what is your differentiating factor between what is and what isn't a ballgroup regarding these groups?0 -
ioResult✭✭✭
If you have to ask this question then you don't know what an actual ball group is.ForumSavant wrote: »What does this comment even mean, what is your differentiating factor between what is and what isn't a ballgroup regarding these groups?
All ball group is more than an zerg, even much more than an organized zerg. It is constructed just like a trials group in PvE is constructed: with very narrowly defined roles where members are required to have specific builds, specific CP, specific skills, and a pre-defined specific rotation they do to fulfill their narrow role in the group - exactly as these same players do in their PvE Trials group.
As of now, because of shield stacking, heal stacking and other silliness introduced by Scribing, these ball groups are being designed to literally be immortal. They can go anywhere on the map they want, run the whole map if they want, take any keep they want, hold that keep for as long as they want and just farm casuals, small scale PvPers, and even organized zergs.
And because of their (everyone knows macro'd) rotations of AoEs to stack heals and shields and light attack until everyone's Ulti is ready for an Ulti-Dump, they overwhelm the GCD on the server and cause lag for everyone and even take advantage of that lag to Ulti-bomb anyone they can catch in their Rush of Agony brokenness.
That's very different from an organized zerg.
So for example, bobbyblaster's organized Red zerg is one of the few that has been trying to use Azureblight to blow up the Blue and Yellow ball groups that- EVERY NIGHT - both just attack the Red home keeps, steal the Red scrolls with impunity and gate Red every night instead of fighting each other.
The Reds call it (rightfully so) Team Green because the Blue and Yellow ball groups don't fight each other unless perhaps the Reds decide to just leave in disgust on any given night because they're tired of doing nothing every night during prime time but defending their home keeps, getting run over by the ball groups and then getting gated by the hangers on of Blue and Yellow that follow their ball groups.But yeah ZOS...Cloak is the problem.
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sudo rm -rf /
don't try this at ~4 -
ForumSavant✭✭✭✭
If you have to ask this question then you don't know what an actual ball group is.ForumSavant wrote: »What does this comment even mean, what is your differentiating factor between what is and what isn't a ballgroup regarding these groups?
All ball group is more than an zerg, even much more than an organized zerg. It is constructed just like a trials group in PvE is constructed: with very narrowly defined roles where members are required to have specific builds, specific CP, specific skills, and a pre-defined specific rotation they do to fulfill their narrow role in the group - exactly as these same players do in their PvE Trials group.
As of now, because of shield stacking, heal stacking and other silliness introduced by Scribing, these ball groups are being designed to literally be immortal. They can go anywhere on the map they want, run the whole map if they want, take any keep they want, hold that keep for as long as they want and just farm casuals, small scale PvPers, and even organized zergs.
And because of their (everyone knows macro'd) rotations of AoEs to stack heals and shields and light attack until everyone's Ulti is ready for an Ulti-Dump, they overwhelm the GCD on the server and cause lag for everyone and even take advantage of that lag to Ulti-bomb anyone they can catch in their Rush of Agony brokenness.
That's very different from an organized zerg.
So for example, bobbyblaster's organized Red zerg is one of the few that has been trying to use Azureblight to blow up the Blue and Yellow ball groups that- EVERY NIGHT - both just attack the Red home keeps, steal the Red scrolls with impunity and gate Red every night instead of fighting each other.
The Reds call it (rightfully so) Team Green because the Blue and Yellow ball groups don't fight each other unless perhaps the Reds decide to just leave in disgust on any given night because they're tired of doing nothing every night during prime time but defending their home keeps, getting run over by the ball groups and then getting gated by the hangers on of Blue and Yellow that follow their ball groups.
I know what a ballgroup is, asking someone to substantiate what THEY think a ballgroup is doesn't mean the person asking doesn't know. The reason I asked is because every group they named is a ballgroup.
If someone says Florida is a state but California and Alabama are not states, and I ask, "what do you think a state is?" you are aware of why I'm asking right? Or are you just unaware of how a conversation works when you are trying to get someone to flesh out their position?
Stop making wildly inaccurate claims about groups because they kill you. Bobby streams his PoV and the best ballgroup on the server also streams, stop making claims about them abusing and macoring, you make your point look worse by making things up
Edited by ForumSavant on September 27, 2024 11:34PM2 -
blktauna✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well, since Azureblight isn’t going to carry anymore, maybe it’s time to remember the most ancient and effective counter: siege.
Ballgroups might be tanky, but they’re not out-tanking siege + pugs.
um no. You can coldfire them until you're blue and maybe their health bar will shift a teensy bit.PCNA
PCEU0
