Arcanist nerfs are a bit over-the-top

BananaBender · September 22

J18696 wrote: »

Well we can use your own graph if arcanist tank is so amazing why do we only see sorc necro and dk tanks the nerf was 100% pvp related because arcanist tank in pve is overshadowed by those 3 already

Because the other tanks provide more utility and buff for the group compared to Arcanist, since majority of the Arc buffs can be provided by the DDs, which there are plenty off. The less Arc DDs we are going to see the more Arc tanks and healers will be precent.

taugrim wrote: »

*sigh*

Runeguard of Freedom

We're toning down the effectiveness of this morph from being a straight upgrade morph into more of a conversion morph, since the Crowd Control Immunity effect adds a tremendous amount of potential in PvP

Oh, the runeguard change was actually for PvP, thanks for the correction!

J18696 · September 22

BananaBender wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Well we can use your own graph if arcanist tank is so amazing why do we only see sorc necro and dk tanks the nerf was 100% pvp related because arcanist tank in pve is overshadowed by those 3 already

Because the other tanks provide more utility and buff for the group compared to Arcanist, since majority of the Arc buffs can be provided by the DDs, which there are plenty off. The less Arc DDs we are going to see the more Arc tanks and healers will be precent.

taugrim wrote: »

*sigh*

Runeguard of Freedom

We're toning down the effectiveness of this morph from being a straight upgrade morph into more of a conversion morph, since the Crowd Control Immunity effect adds a tremendous amount of potential in PvP

Oh, the runeguard change was actually for PvP, thanks for the correction!

I agree with you on most things but what I'm saying is more along the lines of arcanist tank is good but it's not good enough to justify using it over sorc,dk,necro hardened ward is just as good maybe better than runeward because it does more or less the same thing without a crux mini game so why go after it I find it hard to imagine any of these changes are coming from a pve perspective

BananaBender · September 22

J18696 wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Well we can use your own graph if arcanist tank is so amazing why do we only see sorc necro and dk tanks the nerf was 100% pvp related because arcanist tank in pve is overshadowed by those 3 already

Because the other tanks provide more utility and buff for the group compared to Arcanist, since majority of the Arc buffs can be provided by the DDs, which there are plenty off. The less Arc DDs we are going to see the more Arc tanks and healers will be precent.

taugrim wrote: »

*sigh*

Runeguard of Freedom

We're toning down the effectiveness of this morph from being a straight upgrade morph into more of a conversion morph, since the Crowd Control Immunity effect adds a tremendous amount of potential in PvP

Oh, the runeguard change was actually for PvP, thanks for the correction!

I agree with you on most things but what I'm saying is more along the lines of arcanist tank is good but it's not good enough to justify using it over sorc,dk,necro hardened ward is just as good maybe better than runeward because it does more or less the same thing without a crux mini game so why go after it I find it hard to imagine any of these changes are coming from a pve perspective

It turns out the Runeguard change (probably the Impervious Runeward change as well) were because of PvP, as pointed out previously. Which makes the changes less justified, even if I agree that it was way too easy to survive on Arc compared to other classes.

taugrim · September 23

BananaBender wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Well we can use your own graph if arcanist tank is so amazing why do we only see sorc necro and dk tanks the nerf was 100% pvp related because arcanist tank in pve is overshadowed by those 3 already

Because the other tanks provide more utility and buff for the group compared to Arcanist, since majority of the Arc buffs can be provided by the DDs, which there are plenty off. The less Arc DDs we are going to see the more Arc tanks and healers will be precent.

taugrim wrote: »

*sigh*

Runeguard of Freedom

We're toning down the effectiveness of this morph from being a straight upgrade morph into more of a conversion morph, since the Crowd Control Immunity effect adds a tremendous amount of potential in PvP

Oh, the runeguard change was actually for PvP, thanks for the correction!

I agree with you on most things but what I'm saying is more along the lines of arcanist tank is good but it's not good enough to justify using it over sorc,dk,necro hardened ward is just as good maybe better than runeward because it does more or less the same thing without a crux mini game so why go after it I find it hard to imagine any of these changes are coming from a pve perspective

It turns out the Runeguard change (probably the Impervious Runeward change as well) were because of PvP, as pointed out previously. Which makes the changes less justified, even if I agree that it was way too easy to survive on Arc compared to other classes.

Yes, the changes are clearly in the context of PVP.

I think toning down Arcanist survivability is fine, but more along the lines of what I proposed (e.g. 25% and 25% reductions), instead of the 56% and 50% reductions in the patch notes.

Synapsis123 · September 26

People aren't really using this ability in pve. I think arcanist have received a few too many nerfs for pvp though. They seem more like a support class at this point in pvp. Pve they are still the god kings of the game and this nerf doesn't seem to have anything to do with that.

IncultaWolf · September 26

Maybe Arcanist will be the new necromancer in pvp

taugrim · September 26

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Maybe Arcanist will be the new necromancer in pvp

No.

Nothing will match the utter uselessness of the static-on-the-ground corpse mechanic in PVP.

At least Arc (and NB and Templar) have a mechanic that stacks on themselves.

Heck, I'd be fine with Necromancer having a mechanic that stacked on a target, a la some kind of necrotic energy that enhances abilities. Literally almost anything would be better than the existing corpse mechanic, which doesn't mesh with the inherent mobile nature of PVP fights.

boi_anachronism_ · September 26

taugrim wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

I don't PVP but the fact in most dungeons it feels like 50% of players are Arcanists, then it feels like this adjustment is fair.
And this is coming from someone who's main favorite RN is an arcantist.

PVE players don't slot Runeguard of Freedom, it's overkill for DPS players.
Runespite Ward is rarely needed in PVE as mobs don't focus fire DPS (unless the tank is completely incompetent).

The reason Arcanist is popular in PVE / dungeons is because Fatecarver is an AOE with high single-target damage. It's easy-mode damage, but that has nothing to do with the proposed nerfs here.

Did everyone in here just forget arc tanks exist? 😆

angst · September 26

I main an arcanist, it's already by far the worst class in pvp after the flail changes (not that it was good before) and these nerfs just kinda remove its survivability too. Zos claims to play the game and I'd love to see what pve achievements and what pvp rank the people who make these decisions have, considering this change, the nb stuff and the azureblight nerf (which is probably the new #1 worst decision they've ever taken), it's hard for me to believe that they're not just questing andies who've never actually played the game

taugrim · September 26

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

I don't PVP but the fact in most dungeons it feels like 50% of players are Arcanists, then it feels like this adjustment is fair.
And this is coming from someone who's main favorite RN is an arcantist.

PVE players don't slot Runeguard of Freedom, it's overkill for DPS players.
Runespite Ward is rarely needed in PVE as mobs don't focus fire DPS (unless the tank is completely incompetent).

The reason Arcanist is popular in PVE / dungeons is because Fatecarver is an AOE with high single-target damage. It's easy-mode damage, but that has nothing to do with the proposed nerfs here.

Did everyone in here just forget arc tanks exist? 😆

This is a thread about changes being made by ZoS related to PVP.

As I said in the OP, if you want to discuss PVE, start your own thread.

taugrim · September 26

angst wrote: »

I main an arcanist, it's already by far the worst class in pvp after the flail changes (not that it was good before) and these nerfs just kinda remove its survivability too.

Templar and especially Necro are worse than Arcanist currently, but with these changes Arcanist may be at or under the level of Templar in PVP.

IncultaWolf · September 26

After these changes, why wouldn't you just play sorc instead of arcanist? Hardened ward is just straight up a better shield and you don't need crux for the heal

taugrim · September 26

IncultaWolf wrote: »

After these changes, why wouldn't you just play sorc instead of arcanist? Hardened ward is just straight up a better shield and you don't need crux for the heal

That's a completely legitimate question.

The identify of Arcanist in PVP revolves around shielding and survivability. Sorceror has a better shield spammable.

NyassaV · September 27

I've managed to play Arcanist without Runeward and I'm still able to do pretty well. Skill issue. It's a long overdue change.

Silaf · September 27

No arcanist is still way too overpowered in everyting.
Pve= best bps, second best healer and great tank.
PvP= if you build it right is still one of the strongest.

It need to be nerfed more to be at the same level of other classes.

taugrim · September 27

NyassaV wrote: »

I've managed to play Arcanist without Runeward and I'm still able to do pretty well. Skill issue. It's a long overdue change.

How can you claim it's an overdue change if you don't even use the ability?

Also, all of your recent channel videos are for NB (Magblade).

I think a more accurate statement would be: "I main NB and I want Arcanist nerfed."

It always amazes me how players of OP classes in PVP want other PVP classes nerfed. Talk about "skill issue" LOL.

Silaf wrote: »

No arcanist is still way too overpowered in everyting.
Pve= best bps, second best healer and great tank.
PvP= if you build it right is still one of the strongest.

It need to be nerfed more to be at the same level of other classes.

Both of you, read the OP. This is a thread discussing PVP changes, not PVE changes.

The developer comments are clearly in the context of PVP (and even use that acronym there).

NyassaV · September 27

taugrim wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

I've managed to play Arcanist without Runeward and I'm still able to do pretty well. Skill issue. It's a long overdue change.

How can you claim it's an overdue change if you don't even use the ability?

Also, all of your recent channel videos are for NB (Magblade).

I think a more accurate statement would be: "I main NB and I want Arcanist nerfed."

It always amazes me how players of OP classes in PVP want other PVP classes nerfed. Talk about "skill issue" LOL.

Silaf wrote: »

No arcanist is still way too overpowered in everyting.
Pve= best bps, second best healer and great tank.
PvP= if you build it right is still one of the strongest.

It need to be nerfed more to be at the same level of other classes.

Both of you, read the OP. This is a thread discussing PVP changes, not PVE changes.

The developer comments are clearly in the context of PVP (and even use that acronym there).

Yeah my channel is Nightblade cuz that's what I'm good it. If I can play arcanist successfully without runeward despite my skillset being in Nightblade then that kinda invalidates your point.

taugrim · September 27

NyassaV wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

I've managed to play Arcanist without Runeward and I'm still able to do pretty well. Skill issue. It's a long overdue change.

How can you claim it's an overdue change if you don't even use the ability?

Also, all of your recent channel videos are for NB (Magblade).

I think a more accurate statement would be: "I main NB and I want Arcanist nerfed."

It always amazes me how players of OP classes in PVP want other PVP classes nerfed. Talk about "skill issue" LOL.

Silaf wrote: »

No arcanist is still way too overpowered in everyting.
Pve= best bps, second best healer and great tank.
PvP= if you build it right is still one of the strongest.

It need to be nerfed more to be at the same level of other classes.

Both of you, read the OP. This is a thread discussing PVP changes, not PVE changes.

The developer comments are clearly in the context of PVP (and even use that acronym there).

Yeah my channel is Nightblade cuz that's what I'm good it. If I can play arcanist successfully without runeward despite my skillset being in Nightblade then that kinda invalidates your point.

What you posted in your YouTube channel last year might work in low MMR in BGs or against bad players in Cyro, but it's severely mechanically flawed. E.g. you build it as a Magicka Arcanist, which makes no sense given that all your abilities are draining from 1 pool.

Anyway, enjoy your NB.

NyassaV · September 28

taugrim wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

I've managed to play Arcanist without Runeward and I'm still able to do pretty well. Skill issue. It's a long overdue change.

How can you claim it's an overdue change if you don't even use the ability?

Also, all of your recent channel videos are for NB (Magblade).

I think a more accurate statement would be: "I main NB and I want Arcanist nerfed."

It always amazes me how players of OP classes in PVP want other PVP classes nerfed. Talk about "skill issue" LOL.

Silaf wrote: »

No arcanist is still way too overpowered in everyting.
Pve= best bps, second best healer and great tank.
PvP= if you build it right is still one of the strongest.

It need to be nerfed more to be at the same level of other classes.

Both of you, read the OP. This is a thread discussing PVP changes, not PVE changes.

The developer comments are clearly in the context of PVP (and even use that acronym there).

Yeah my channel is Nightblade cuz that's what I'm good it. If I can play arcanist successfully without runeward despite my skillset being in Nightblade then that kinda invalidates your point.

What you posted in your YouTube channel last year might work in low MMR in BGs or against bad players in Cyro, but it's severely mechanically flawed. E.g. you build it as a Magicka Arcanist, which makes no sense given that all your abilities are draining from 1 pool.

Anyway, enjoy your NB.

That thing is a year old. Bold of you to assume I play that exactly build still. (And even if I did? Survival is surprisingly not an issue, damage is however)

Doesn't change how Runeward is presently overtuned and in need of a nerf. You will have literally zero issue staying alive without Runeward. If anything Arc needs more interesting and effective offensive abilities rather than just using a bunch of procs and spamming flail.

It has mobility close to the level of sorc (Gate has a CD) and a nifty burst heal which tics over the course of 1 seconds allowing you to get more proc chances and maybe more use out of your crit. Try playing without runeward, you won't be able to face tank 4+ people but the class is still very playable.

taugrim · September 28

NyassaV wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

I've managed to play Arcanist without Runeward and I'm still able to do pretty well. Skill issue. It's a long overdue change.

How can you claim it's an overdue change if you don't even use the ability?

Also, all of your recent channel videos are for NB (Magblade).

I think a more accurate statement would be: "I main NB and I want Arcanist nerfed."

It always amazes me how players of OP classes in PVP want other PVP classes nerfed. Talk about "skill issue" LOL.

Silaf wrote: »

No arcanist is still way too overpowered in everyting.
Pve= best bps, second best healer and great tank.
PvP= if you build it right is still one of the strongest.

It need to be nerfed more to be at the same level of other classes.

Both of you, read the OP. This is a thread discussing PVP changes, not PVE changes.

The developer comments are clearly in the context of PVP (and even use that acronym there).

Yeah my channel is Nightblade cuz that's what I'm good it. If I can play arcanist successfully without runeward despite my skillset being in Nightblade then that kinda invalidates your point.

What you posted in your YouTube channel last year might work in low MMR in BGs or against bad players in Cyro, but it's severely mechanically flawed. E.g. you build it as a Magicka Arcanist, which makes no sense given that all your abilities are draining from 1 pool.

Anyway, enjoy your NB.

That thing is a year old. Bold of you to assume I play that exactly build still. (And even if I did? Survival is surprisingly not an issue, damage is however)

Doesn't change how Runeward is presently overtuned and in need of a nerf. You will have literally zero issue staying alive without Runeward.

The build reflects your understanding of mechanics. Most savvy PVP players knew from looking at Arcanist even before the class launched that with the way resource consumption is determined, going Stamina was the smart play. It makes sustain easier which allows the player more flexibility.

If you'd actually read the OP, you'd have seen that I advocated for toning down Impervious Runeward, but by 25% and not 56%. I agree it's too strong. But over-nerfing it is not the answer, even if you never use the ability. And even if you are really a NB trying to act like an (ignorant) Arcanist.

Galeriano2 · September 28

J18696 wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

Lol no arcanist need to be nerfed way more especially in PvE. The real question is why zos is taking so long to balance the game.

Arcanist is probably the weakest single target class in the game and somewhere in the top 3 for cleave dps at least for pve it really didn't justify a defense nerf it's just super easy to play similar to the old heavy attack meta situation

That's just not true. There is a reason why pretty much all raid groups are stuffed full of arcanists.

Dk is pulling more dps than arcanist at the highest end people use arcanist because it has a very low skill ceiling and is incredibly easy to use effectively compared to the other classes eso logs is going to show majority arc because that's what everyone is using why put more effort into playing the content when arc can get good enough results with far less effort

Higher skill ceiling doesn't matter for top 1% of players. If DK would be generally stronger than arcanist than top players would be using DK. Top percentile of player is willing to put extra effort simply to get better scores even if it would mean clearing something just few seconds faster. Still the main choice for DD in those runs is arcanist. it simply has the best combination of AoE and single target DPS amongst all the classes.

Galeriano2 · September 29

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Arc is the most overrated class in PvP, talked up by players who drink laser because they don't move or press buttons. They're nothing more than a group shield bot, their already bad offensive PvP kit ate a massive unjust nerf last patch with Flail, and now their survival is being hit harder than Sorc (Hardened Ward deserves the sledgehammer not the scalpel).

Considering arcanists defenses fact that it can build any amount of noticable damage is already too much.

J18696 · September 30

Galeriano2 wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

Lol no arcanist need to be nerfed way more especially in PvE. The real question is why zos is taking so long to balance the game.

Arcanist is probably the weakest single target class in the game and somewhere in the top 3 for cleave dps at least for pve it really didn't justify a defense nerf it's just super easy to play similar to the old heavy attack meta situation

That's just not true. There is a reason why pretty much all raid groups are stuffed full of arcanists.

Dk is pulling more dps than arcanist at the highest end people use arcanist because it has a very low skill ceiling and is incredibly easy to use effectively compared to the other classes eso logs is going to show majority arc because that's what everyone is using why put more effort into playing the content when arc can get good enough results with far less effort

Higher skill ceiling doesn't matter for top 1% of players. If DK would be generally stronger than arcanist than top players would be using DK. Top percentile of player is willing to put extra effort simply to get better scores even if it would mean clearing something just few seconds faster. Still the main choice for DD in those runs is arcanist. it simply has the best combination of AoE and single target DPS amongst all the classes.

People are using dk it wins in single target and is competitive with arc in cleave problem is why bother using it when it takes more effort and all you need todo on arc is beam for 7 seconds and go take a bio repeat

They literally don't design trial bosses for single target anymore at all so won't take a genius to imagine the cleave class will be picked above all else

pklemming · September 30

We were literally mis sold a class.

This is no longer the class we bought. The initial implementation is far removed from what we have now. How do you think this makes the arcanists feel? The people that changed the class to renew interest in the game. Do you think they are happy, or think the game is better with all these nerfs? Do you think it is good for the health of the company? You have numbers not seen in years and this will push them lower. We have already had a few people just give up and go to another game, rather than suffer any further nerfs

No one. I mean NO ONE likes nerfs. They do not inspire confidence or loyalty to the company.

If another game comes along that is semi decent. Why should we stay? Right now, I have no reason. My friends are here and pretty much all feel the same. So if one leaves, we all leave. I doubt this is an isolated situation. A significant portion of the people are here because their friends are here, not because they find the game good any more.

Each nerf pushes us closer and closer to leaving.

sarahthes · September 30

Galeriano2 wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

Lol no arcanist need to be nerfed way more especially in PvE. The real question is why zos is taking so long to balance the game.

Arcanist is probably the weakest single target class in the game and somewhere in the top 3 for cleave dps at least for pve it really didn't justify a defense nerf it's just super easy to play similar to the old heavy attack meta situation

That's just not true. There is a reason why pretty much all raid groups are stuffed full of arcanists.

Dk is pulling more dps than arcanist at the highest end people use arcanist because it has a very low skill ceiling and is incredibly easy to use effectively compared to the other classes eso logs is going to show majority arc because that's what everyone is using why put more effort into playing the content when arc can get good enough results with far less effort

Higher skill ceiling doesn't matter for top 1% of players. If DK would be generally stronger than arcanist than top players would be using DK. Top percentile of player is willing to put extra effort simply to get better scores even if it would mean clearing something just few seconds faster. Still the main choice for DD in those runs is arcanist. it simply has the best combination of AoE and single target DPS amongst all the classes.

We use plars in vAS, DKs in Rockgrove, Sunspire, Kynes, and Cloudrest, and arcanists in DSR/SE/LC.

At the very highest level I mean. Sweaty/scorepushy/nuke strats.

Galeriano2 · September 30

J18696 wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

Lol no arcanist need to be nerfed way more especially in PvE. The real question is why zos is taking so long to balance the game.

Arcanist is probably the weakest single target class in the game and somewhere in the top 3 for cleave dps at least for pve it really didn't justify a defense nerf it's just super easy to play similar to the old heavy attack meta situation

That's just not true. There is a reason why pretty much all raid groups are stuffed full of arcanists.

Dk is pulling more dps than arcanist at the highest end people use arcanist because it has a very low skill ceiling and is incredibly easy to use effectively compared to the other classes eso logs is going to show majority arc because that's what everyone is using why put more effort into playing the content when arc can get good enough results with far less effort

Higher skill ceiling doesn't matter for top 1% of players. If DK would be generally stronger than arcanist than top players would be using DK. Top percentile of player is willing to put extra effort simply to get better scores even if it would mean clearing something just few seconds faster. Still the main choice for DD in those runs is arcanist. it simply has the best combination of AoE and single target DPS amongst all the classes.

People are using dk it wins in single target and is competitive with arc in cleave problem is why bother using it when it takes more effort and all you need todo on arc is beam for 7 seconds and go take a bio repeat

They literally don't design trial bosses for single target anymore at all so won't take a genius to imagine the cleave class will be picked above all else

Like I already said rotation difficulty doesn't matter that much for top 1%, what matters the most is effectiveness and arcanist still dominates in these runs.

Arcanists dominates in score runs in almost every trial not just the recent ones.

sarahthes · September 30

Galeriano2 wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

Lol no arcanist need to be nerfed way more especially in PvE. The real question is why zos is taking so long to balance the game.

Arcanist is probably the weakest single target class in the game and somewhere in the top 3 for cleave dps at least for pve it really didn't justify a defense nerf it's just super easy to play similar to the old heavy attack meta situation

That's just not true. There is a reason why pretty much all raid groups are stuffed full of arcanists.

Dk is pulling more dps than arcanist at the highest end people use arcanist because it has a very low skill ceiling and is incredibly easy to use effectively compared to the other classes eso logs is going to show majority arc because that's what everyone is using why put more effort into playing the content when arc can get good enough results with far less effort

Higher skill ceiling doesn't matter for top 1% of players. If DK would be generally stronger than arcanist than top players would be using DK. Top percentile of player is willing to put extra effort simply to get better scores even if it would mean clearing something just few seconds faster. Still the main choice for DD in those runs is arcanist. it simply has the best combination of AoE and single target DPS amongst all the classes.

People are using dk it wins in single target and is competitive with arc in cleave problem is why bother using it when it takes more effort and all you need todo on arc is beam for 7 seconds and go take a bio repeat

They literally don't design trial bosses for single target anymore at all so won't take a genius to imagine the cleave class will be picked above all else

Like I already said rotation difficulty doesn't matter that much for top 1%, what matters the most is effectiveness and arcanist still dominates in these runs.

Arcanists dominates in score runs in almost every trial not just the recent ones.

I fact checked this based on top patch scores in ESO logs:

Lucent: 7 arc dds and a dk
Sanitys Edge: 4 arc dds, 1 sorc 1 dk 1 cro 1 plar
Dreadsail: 4 arc dds 3 dks 1 plar and 1 cro (only 1 healer/9 dd comp)
Rockgrove: 2 arc dds 6 dks 1 cro 1 sorc (1 healer/1 tank/10 dd comp)
Kynes: 3 arcs 3 dks 1 plar 1 sorc 1 cro (1 healer 1 tank 1 heal-tank hybrid)
Sunspire: 7 arcs 1 dk 1 sorc (can't tell if solo heal or solo tank or something in between)
Cloudrest: 4 arcs 2 dks 1 sorc 1 plar
Asylum: 4 arcs 1 dk 1 sorc 4 plars (1 heal/1 tank)
Halls of Fabrication: 7 arcs 1 dk
Maw: 4 arcs 3 dks 3 cros

Interestingly across all these trials top scores there are only enough players to make ~ 6 teams. Six of the trials are what look like just regular prog groups, as the scores aren't particularly notable compared to current records. Maw, Asylum and Rockgrove are current world records and Dreadsail is a team pushing for a new world record.

Galeriano2 · September 30

sarahthes wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

Lol no arcanist need to be nerfed way more especially in PvE. The real question is why zos is taking so long to balance the game.

Arcanist is probably the weakest single target class in the game and somewhere in the top 3 for cleave dps at least for pve it really didn't justify a defense nerf it's just super easy to play similar to the old heavy attack meta situation

That's just not true. There is a reason why pretty much all raid groups are stuffed full of arcanists.

Dk is pulling more dps than arcanist at the highest end people use arcanist because it has a very low skill ceiling and is incredibly easy to use effectively compared to the other classes eso logs is going to show majority arc because that's what everyone is using why put more effort into playing the content when arc can get good enough results with far less effort

Higher skill ceiling doesn't matter for top 1% of players. If DK would be generally stronger than arcanist than top players would be using DK. Top percentile of player is willing to put extra effort simply to get better scores even if it would mean clearing something just few seconds faster. Still the main choice for DD in those runs is arcanist. it simply has the best combination of AoE and single target DPS amongst all the classes.

People are using dk it wins in single target and is competitive with arc in cleave problem is why bother using it when it takes more effort and all you need todo on arc is beam for 7 seconds and go take a bio repeat

They literally don't design trial bosses for single target anymore at all so won't take a genius to imagine the cleave class will be picked above all else

Like I already said rotation difficulty doesn't matter that much for top 1%, what matters the most is effectiveness and arcanist still dominates in these runs.

Arcanists dominates in score runs in almost every trial not just the recent ones.

I fact checked this based on top patch scores in ESO logs:

Lucent: 7 arc dds and a dk
Sanitys Edge: 4 arc dds, 1 sorc 1 dk 1 cro 1 plar
Dreadsail: 4 arc dds 3 dks 1 plar and 1 cro (only 1 healer/9 dd comp)
Rockgrove: 2 arc dds 6 dks 1 cro 1 sorc (1 healer/1 tank/10 dd comp)
Kynes: 3 arcs 3 dks 1 plar 1 sorc 1 cro (1 healer 1 tank 1 heal-tank hybrid)
Sunspire: 7 arcs 1 dk 1 sorc (can't tell if solo heal or solo tank or something in between)
Cloudrest: 4 arcs 2 dks 1 sorc 1 plar
Asylum: 4 arcs 1 dk 1 sorc 4 plars (1 heal/1 tank)
Halls of Fabrication: 7 arcs 1 dk
Maw: 4 arcs 3 dks 3 cros

Interestingly across all these trials top scores there are only enough players to make ~ 6 teams. Six of the trials are what look like just regular prog groups, as the scores aren't particularly notable compared to current records. Maw, Asylum and Rockgrove are current world records and Dreadsail is a team pushing for a new world record.

Still looks like arcanist dominates and ironically it's more preffered even in vAS which is not a cleave dmg focused fight and where also that 1 dk You mentioned was a offtank not the full blown DD.

So out of lets say 80 DD spots in all these runs arcanists take 46 spots which is 58%. Second best choice which is DK takes 22 spots with offensive offtanks included. This is over 2 times less than arcanist. If that's not arcanist's domination I don't know what is

J18696 · September 30

Galeriano2 wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

Lol no arcanist need to be nerfed way more especially in PvE. The real question is why zos is taking so long to balance the game.

Arcanist is probably the weakest single target class in the game and somewhere in the top 3 for cleave dps at least for pve it really didn't justify a defense nerf it's just super easy to play similar to the old heavy attack meta situation

That's just not true. There is a reason why pretty much all raid groups are stuffed full of arcanists.

Dk is pulling more dps than arcanist at the highest end people use arcanist because it has a very low skill ceiling and is incredibly easy to use effectively compared to the other classes eso logs is going to show majority arc because that's what everyone is using why put more effort into playing the content when arc can get good enough results with far less effort

Higher skill ceiling doesn't matter for top 1% of players. If DK would be generally stronger than arcanist than top players would be using DK. Top percentile of player is willing to put extra effort simply to get better scores even if it would mean clearing something just few seconds faster. Still the main choice for DD in those runs is arcanist. it simply has the best combination of AoE and single target DPS amongst all the classes.

People are using dk it wins in single target and is competitive with arc in cleave problem is why bother using it when it takes more effort and all you need todo on arc is beam for 7 seconds and go take a bio repeat

They literally don't design trial bosses for single target anymore at all so won't take a genius to imagine the cleave class will be picked above all else

Like I already said rotation difficulty doesn't matter that much for top 1%, what matters the most is effectiveness and arcanist still dominates in these runs.

Arcanists dominates in score runs in almost every trial not just the recent ones.

I fact checked this based on top patch scores in ESO logs:

Lucent: 7 arc dds and a dk
Sanitys Edge: 4 arc dds, 1 sorc 1 dk 1 cro 1 plar
Dreadsail: 4 arc dds 3 dks 1 plar and 1 cro (only 1 healer/9 dd comp)
Rockgrove: 2 arc dds 6 dks 1 cro 1 sorc (1 healer/1 tank/10 dd comp)
Kynes: 3 arcs 3 dks 1 plar 1 sorc 1 cro (1 healer 1 tank 1 heal-tank hybrid)
Sunspire: 7 arcs 1 dk 1 sorc (can't tell if solo heal or solo tank or something in between)
Cloudrest: 4 arcs 2 dks 1 sorc 1 plar
Asylum: 4 arcs 1 dk 1 sorc 4 plars (1 heal/1 tank)
Halls of Fabrication: 7 arcs 1 dk
Maw: 4 arcs 3 dks 3 cros

Interestingly across all these trials top scores there are only enough players to make ~ 6 teams. Six of the trials are what look like just regular prog groups, as the scores aren't particularly notable compared to current records. Maw, Asylum and Rockgrove are current world records and Dreadsail is a team pushing for a new world record.

Still looks like arcanist dominates and ironically it's more preffered even in vAS which is not a cleave dmg focused fight and where also that 1 dk You mentioned was a offtank not the DD.

It's also a range fight since they are doing majority of the dmg during jumps

sarahthes · September 30

Galeriano2 wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

Lol no arcanist need to be nerfed way more especially in PvE. The real question is why zos is taking so long to balance the game.

Arcanist is probably the weakest single target class in the game and somewhere in the top 3 for cleave dps at least for pve it really didn't justify a defense nerf it's just super easy to play similar to the old heavy attack meta situation

That's just not true. There is a reason why pretty much all raid groups are stuffed full of arcanists.

Dk is pulling more dps than arcanist at the highest end people use arcanist because it has a very low skill ceiling and is incredibly easy to use effectively compared to the other classes eso logs is going to show majority arc because that's what everyone is using why put more effort into playing the content when arc can get good enough results with far less effort

Higher skill ceiling doesn't matter for top 1% of players. If DK would be generally stronger than arcanist than top players would be using DK. Top percentile of player is willing to put extra effort simply to get better scores even if it would mean clearing something just few seconds faster. Still the main choice for DD in those runs is arcanist. it simply has the best combination of AoE and single target DPS amongst all the classes.

People are using dk it wins in single target and is competitive with arc in cleave problem is why bother using it when it takes more effort and all you need todo on arc is beam for 7 seconds and go take a bio repeat

They literally don't design trial bosses for single target anymore at all so won't take a genius to imagine the cleave class will be picked above all else

Like I already said rotation difficulty doesn't matter that much for top 1%, what matters the most is effectiveness and arcanist still dominates in these runs.

Arcanists dominates in score runs in almost every trial not just the recent ones.

I fact checked this based on top patch scores in ESO logs:

Lucent: 7 arc dds and a dk
Sanitys Edge: 4 arc dds, 1 sorc 1 dk 1 cro 1 plar
Dreadsail: 4 arc dds 3 dks 1 plar and 1 cro (only 1 healer/9 dd comp)
Rockgrove: 2 arc dds 6 dks 1 cro 1 sorc (1 healer/1 tank/10 dd comp)
Kynes: 3 arcs 3 dks 1 plar 1 sorc 1 cro (1 healer 1 tank 1 heal-tank hybrid)
Sunspire: 7 arcs 1 dk 1 sorc (can't tell if solo heal or solo tank or something in between)
Cloudrest: 4 arcs 2 dks 1 sorc 1 plar
Asylum: 4 arcs 1 dk 1 sorc 4 plars (1 heal/1 tank)
Halls of Fabrication: 7 arcs 1 dk
Maw: 4 arcs 3 dks 3 cros

Interestingly across all these trials top scores there are only enough players to make ~ 6 teams. Six of the trials are what look like just regular prog groups, as the scores aren't particularly notable compared to current records. Maw, Asylum and Rockgrove are current world records and Dreadsail is a team pushing for a new world record.

Still looks like arcanist dominates and ironically it's more preffered even in vAS which is not a cleave dmg focused fight and where also that 1 dk You mentioned was a offtank not the full blown DD.

The dk would be the main tank not the off tank. OT is too busy to parse in vas. DK MT is a support DPS with a taunt, they are expected to do damage.

Arc isn't preferred for DPS in vas strictly for damage reasons. They're preferred because they're ranged and can do damage while kiting with a shield and put their backs to olms during non kite phases to beam protectors without leaving stack.