Pvp is slowly dying

ADarklore

Sylosi wrote: »

Unless your standards are very low, it has been dead for years.

That's what I thought too? I mean, 'slowly dying'... I've heard it's been dead for years.

LadyGP

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

ESO PVP community:
We want new pvp content.

Also pvp community:
We need only death match.

I've never heard anyone who plays Cyro who has asked for deathmatch.

Actually, I haven't played Cyro with anyone that actually plays BGs.

I think more PvPers just want performance to be better. Sure, content would be great, but performance is so terrible right now that there is no point in bringing any new content because we won't be able to enjoy it.

Warhawke_80

LadyGP wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

ESO PVP community:
We want new pvp content.

Also pvp community:
We need only death match.

I've never heard anyone who plays Cyro who has asked for deathmatch.

Actually, I haven't played Cyro with anyone that actually plays BGs.

I think more PvPers just want performance to be better. Sure, content would be great, but performance is so terrible right now that there is no point in bringing any new content because we won't be able to enjoy it.

A guildmate of mine wanted to show me how "awesome" PvP was, so he took me on a tour of Cyrodiil and some battlegrounds. It was honestly embarrassing and not fun at all.

At this point, it feels like the devs are just letting Cyrodiil decay. The place is practically empty. It’s like they held a war, but no one showed up. Sooner or later, the devs will have to face the reality that an empty Cyrodiil makes the entire game feel neglected. Sure, they can keep trying to revive the current PvP scene, but at some point, they’ll have to throw in the towel, end this version of the world, and repurpose that huge area into something players will actually use....

MidniteOwl1913

Sarannah wrote: »

Personally I am conflicted about the state of PvP.

One the one hand I would like to see the PvP community get more and new PvP content. But on the other hand I'd love to see PvP die completely so ZOS stops with the nerf over nerf over nerf updates that suck the soul out of the game and the gameplay, only for the sake of PvP balance which can never be achieved anyways and for a mode only a few people play.

ZOS has been trying to "balance" as long as I have been playing and it's never done and whatever they do in the name of that "balance" is never good.

Pyrebrand ,AB, and NB cloak are just the most recent.

reazea

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

ESO PVP community:
We want new pvp content.

Also pvp community:
We need only death match.

I've never heard anyone who plays Cyro who has asked for deathmatch.

Actually, I haven't played Cyro with anyone that actually plays BGs.

I think more PvPers just want performance to be better. Sure, content would be great, but performance is so terrible right now that there is no point in bringing any new content because we won't be able to enjoy it.

A guildmate of mine wanted to show me how "awesome" PvP was, so he took me on a tour of Cyrodiil and some battlegrounds. It was honestly embarrassing and not fun at all.

At this point, it feels like the devs are just letting Cyrodiil decay. The place is practically empty. It’s like they held a war, but no one showed up. Sooner or later, the devs will have to face the reality that an empty Cyrodiil makes the entire game feel neglected. Sure, they can keep trying to revive the current PvP scene, but at some point, they’ll have to throw in the towel, end this version of the world, and repurpose that huge area into something players will actually use....

The obvious solution is to turn every PvE zone into PvP and make Cyrodiil PvE. That will make everyone happy, right?

FlopsyPrince

PvP isn't dying, it is dead.

You can't have PvP for even us who greatly dislike it with such low population caps.

Coo_PnT

LalMirchi wrote: »

PVP's not dead, it's merely resting

Agreed. But if Cyrodiil is really, really dying, please call someone, including me. I will probably come running.

moderatelyfatman

Coo_PnT wrote: »

LalMirchi wrote: »

PVP's not dead, it's merely resting

Agreed. But if Cyrodiil is really, really dying, please call someone, including me. I will probably come running.

You could argue that PvP isn't dead, but the beautiful Cyrodiil we had from 3+ years ago isn't coming back. Population caps are low (and likely to drop further) so that we can no longer have the huge fights across multiple keeps and the tanky meta creates battles that are unnecessarily slow and drawn out.

PvP in ESO has become about being comfortable accepting less and less over time. I'm sure numbers will bounce at the next Whitestrakes Mayhem and it will feel like old times with many players returning, but it will be a diminished experienced from what it was.

Oh what I would do to have this:
https://youtu.be/-DV9TwsosyI?si=c9ucvFw-BjvR9g1Y&t=128

Aliniel

I used to play PvP a lot. Hours upon hours of it. This was in the early days. Before One Tamriel.

Then those stupid "ball" groups started and it all went downhill. Getting run over by an immortal group or players spamming a single spell is just plain stupid. Healing spells stacking one over another keeping everyone in the group permanently at 100% hp. Siege weapons being super slow and doing next to no damage.

I've tried going back into it a few times, but it was never the same again. In addition to the ball groups, now you have you have to deal with immortal tanks and one-shotting nightblades.

It's just poorly designed. These things should never have been possible in the first place. You are pretty much forced into one of few "viable" playstyles otherwise you're just in the way and free AP for the enemy.

Aurielle

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

ESO PVP community:
We want new pvp content.

Also pvp community:
We need only death match.

I've never heard anyone who plays Cyro who has asked for deathmatch.

Actually, I haven't played Cyro with anyone that actually plays BGs.

I think more PvPers just want performance to be better. Sure, content would be great, but performance is so terrible right now that there is no point in bringing any new content because we won't be able to enjoy it.

A guildmate of mine wanted to show me how "awesome" PvP was, so he took me on a tour of Cyrodiil and some battlegrounds. It was honestly embarrassing and not fun at all.

At this point, it feels like the devs are just letting Cyrodiil decay. The place is practically empty. It’s like they held a war, but no one showed up. Sooner or later, the devs will have to face the reality that an empty Cyrodiil makes the entire game feel neglected. Sure, they can keep trying to revive the current PvP scene, but at some point, they’ll have to throw in the towel, end this version of the world, and repurpose that huge area into something players will actually use....

As has been stated to you previously, @Warhawke_80 , Cyrodiil is only “empty” because ZOS made it so. The population caps in Cyrodiil used to be 600 per alliance, and it was an incredible experience. ZOS gradually reduced the caps because they couldn’t fix the crippling large scale PVP performance issues that crept into the game over time — not because “no one showed up” to the war. With each reduction in the player cap, more PVPers moved on to other games. Population caps these days have been reduced to an estimated 60-80 players per alliance, and Cyrodiil is now a shadow of its former self. This is ZOS’s fault. Not the PVP population’s fault.

I’m sure you’d be quite happy if PVP was removed from this game completely, as you’ve made your anti-PVP and anti-PVPer stance very clear in this forum, but be careful what you wish for. Some of the biggest Crown Crate whales I know in this game are PVPers who want the fanciest mounts on the battlefield. PVPers also tend to buy chapters and DLCs on release rather than waiting for sales, as they want access to the OP sets associated with those releases right away — not months later after the sets have been nerfed. Eliminating this source of revenue would undoubtedly be bad for the longevity of the game.

Arrodisia

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

Coo_PnT wrote: »

LalMirchi wrote: »

PVP's not dead, it's merely resting

Agreed. But if Cyrodiil is really, really dying, please call someone, including me. I will probably come running.

You could argue that PvP isn't dead, but the beautiful Cyrodiil we had from 3+ years ago isn't coming back. Population caps are low (and likely to drop further) so that we can no longer have the huge fights across multiple keeps and the tanky meta creates battles that are unnecessarily slow and drawn out.

PvP in ESO has become about being comfortable accepting less and less over time. I'm sure numbers will bounce at the next Whitestrakes Mayhem and it will feel like old times with many players returning, but it will be a diminished experienced from what it was.

Oh what I would do to have this:
https://youtu.be/-DV9TwsosyI?si=c9ucvFw-BjvR9g1Y&t=128

Yes this is so awesome. The more the merrier. Pop caps are way too low currently. I would give anything to play a high pop cap, low lag and less buggy Cyrodiil.

moderatelyfatman

@Aurielle
Agreed. Cyrodiil used to be what made ESO unique, and by gradually diminishing it over the years, it is no longer the mass PvP MMO. Games like Guild Wars 2 and now T&L can manage much larger scale battles.

Arrodisia

Aurielle wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

ESO PVP community:
We want new pvp content.

Also pvp community:
We need only death match.

I've never heard anyone who plays Cyro who has asked for deathmatch.

Actually, I haven't played Cyro with anyone that actually plays BGs.

I think more PvPers just want performance to be better. Sure, content would be great, but performance is so terrible right now that there is no point in bringing any new content because we won't be able to enjoy it.

A guildmate of mine wanted to show me how "awesome" PvP was, so he took me on a tour of Cyrodiil and some battlegrounds. It was honestly embarrassing and not fun at all.

At this point, it feels like the devs are just letting Cyrodiil decay. The place is practically empty. It’s like they held a war, but no one showed up. Sooner or later, the devs will have to face the reality that an empty Cyrodiil makes the entire game feel neglected. Sure, they can keep trying to revive the current PvP scene, but at some point, they’ll have to throw in the towel, end this version of the world, and repurpose that huge area into something players will actually use....

As has been stated to you previously, @Warhawke_80 , Cyrodiil is only “empty” because ZOS made it so. The population caps in Cyrodiil used to be 600 per alliance, and it was an incredible experience. ZOS gradually reduced the caps because they couldn’t fix the crippling large scale PVP performance issues that crept into the game over time — not because “no one showed up” to the war. With each reduction in the player cap, more PVPers moved on to other games. Population caps these days have been reduced to an estimated 60-80 players per alliance, and Cyrodiil is now a shadow of its former self. This is ZOS’s fault. Not the PVP population’s fault.

I’m sure you’d be quite happy if PVP was removed from this game completely, as you’ve made your anti-PVP and anti-PVPer stance very clear in this forum, but be careful what you wish for. Some of the biggest Crown Crate whales I know in this game are PVPers who want the fanciest mounts on the battlefield. PVPers also tend to buy chapters and DLCs on release rather than waiting for sales, as they want access to the OP sets associated with those releases right away — not months later after the sets have been nerfed. Eliminating this source of revenue would undoubtedly be bad for the longevity of the game.

so much of this is true. Cyrodiil needed TLC to fix performance issues and barely ever got any. Instead, the best parts of it were destroyed. Cyrodiil was once a lot of fun. It would've been even more fun without the performance issues. Maybe the devs could completely recode Cyrodiil from the ground up to perform better rather than have it remembered in this lackluster gimped state.

It's been years since the game was completely recoded. Maybe it's time.

BXR_Lonestar

TDVM wrote: »

Pvp is slowly dying from lack of content, terrible balance and adding a new arena/mode(most likely) will not fix this situation. Also in pvp there is no motivation to play, for fun? And what fun can be if the balance does not change for several years and this is not to mention the balance of classes.

I never understand this when people say "pvp is dying from lack of content...." PVP literally IS the content in the PVP arena. It doesn't really matter whether we're killing eachother in a castle or an open field, fighting other players is quite literally, the content. Balance issues, I get, can be frustrating but they come and go. I don't know that a new arena mode will fix anything because the only PVP I like in this game is Cyrodil because of the large-scale battles. But to each their own.

That being said, ESO is a 10 year old game, and I'm finding that a lot of guild members are playing Throne and Liberty right now, with the appeal being able to kill people in the open world. But its Free to Play, is pay to win right now, and I'm sure it will become very grindy, and some of those players will come back when the game runs its course, just like they did after Baldur's Gate 3 got old.

Aurielle

Arrodisia wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

ESO PVP community:
We want new pvp content.

Also pvp community:
We need only death match.

I've never heard anyone who plays Cyro who has asked for deathmatch.

Actually, I haven't played Cyro with anyone that actually plays BGs.

I think more PvPers just want performance to be better. Sure, content would be great, but performance is so terrible right now that there is no point in bringing any new content because we won't be able to enjoy it.

A guildmate of mine wanted to show me how "awesome" PvP was, so he took me on a tour of Cyrodiil and some battlegrounds. It was honestly embarrassing and not fun at all.

At this point, it feels like the devs are just letting Cyrodiil decay. The place is practically empty. It’s like they held a war, but no one showed up. Sooner or later, the devs will have to face the reality that an empty Cyrodiil makes the entire game feel neglected. Sure, they can keep trying to revive the current PvP scene, but at some point, they’ll have to throw in the towel, end this version of the world, and repurpose that huge area into something players will actually use....

As has been stated to you previously, @Warhawke_80 , Cyrodiil is only “empty” because ZOS made it so. The population caps in Cyrodiil used to be 600 per alliance, and it was an incredible experience. ZOS gradually reduced the caps because they couldn’t fix the crippling large scale PVP performance issues that crept into the game over time — not because “no one showed up” to the war. With each reduction in the player cap, more PVPers moved on to other games. Population caps these days have been reduced to an estimated 60-80 players per alliance, and Cyrodiil is now a shadow of its former self. This is ZOS’s fault. Not the PVP population’s fault.

I’m sure you’d be quite happy if PVP was removed from this game completely, as you’ve made your anti-PVP and anti-PVPer stance very clear in this forum, but be careful what you wish for. Some of the biggest Crown Crate whales I know in this game are PVPers who want the fanciest mounts on the battlefield. PVPers also tend to buy chapters and DLCs on release rather than waiting for sales, as they want access to the OP sets associated with those releases right away — not months later after the sets have been nerfed. Eliminating this source of revenue would undoubtedly be bad for the longevity of the game.

so much of this is true. Cyrodiil needed TLC to fix performance issues and barely ever got any. Instead, the best parts of it were destroyed. Cyrodiil was once a lot of fun. It would've been even more fun without the performance issues. Maybe the devs could completely recode Cyrodiil from the ground up to perform better rather than have it remembered in this lackluster gimped state.

It's been years since the game was completely recoded. Maybe it's time.

Recoding the game is unlikely at this point. It would be interesting to see, however, if simplifying things in Cyrodiil to reduce server load might improve performance with higher populations. It would be very controversial, but limiting usable sets in Cyrodiil to only a few different options, for instance, could potentially help. When ESO first launched, we only had a tiny fraction of the number of sets we have in game now, and performance was so much better back then… Less controversially (for everyone not running in a ball group, that is), limiting stacks of the same buff (e.g. Vigor) to a max of two per player would definitely reduce the total number of calculations performed in Cyrodiil during large encounters.

Sluggy

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

A guildmate of mine wanted to show me how "awesome" PvP was, so he took me on a tour of Cyrodiil and some battlegrounds. It was honestly embarrassing and not fun at all.

This is pretty much the state of things now. I don't post videos to try to get newcomers excited, or offer to take curious people into Cyro, or organize events for social guilds anymore. Heck, I barely log on myself anymore. It's no fun waiting in a queue just to wander around what could pass for a grassy scene in a Mad Max game. Desolate and empty where you won't see much happening for hours at a time.

PvP has been slowly dying since at least 2019. At this point I'd say it's on its death bed whispering dark secrets and confessions from its past into our ear.

albertberku

Beside how bad the actual combat system of ESO is (lack of animations, visual/audio cues, etc.) there are quite a lot enjoyable engagements in Cyrodiil whenever i play. All these "PvP is dying" or "Fix bad performance in Cyrodiil" threads remind me the times we used to play Fifa with friends in college and the one loses would blame the controller for being broken

Cyrodiil is still clear 1st without any competition when it comes to open world PvP setting in an MMORPG. I see some mentions but WvW of GW2 is nothing like Cyrodiil, but i would love to play in Cyrodiil with GW2 combat system. One can only dream!

And you cant really compare GW2 performance to ESO. ESO has action combat with heavy-medium attacks, sprint, block etc. So there is more network communication. GW2 combat has a slower pace. Furthermore ESO textures have higher quality than GW2, so when you have too many players and vfx on your screen, you are going to need a better PC to avoid local hardware bottlenecks. ESO has also more calculations when it comes to dmg, etc. as there are more parameters that need to be considered, which will be heavier on CPU, both on game servers and local hardwares.

Aurielle

albertberku wrote: »

All these "PvP is dying" or "Fix bad performance in Cyrodiil" threads remind me the times we used to play Fifa with friends in college and the one loses would blame the controller for being broken

What would you call this other than "bad performance"?

https://youtu.be/0aecmwg1qU8

No one's complaining about "bad performance" simply to justify losing. Getting kicked to login after a huge lag spike, terrible rubberbanding during a run of the mill keep siege... That is bad performance, dude. And it's driving people away from Cyrodiil.

albertberku wrote: »

Cyrodiil is still clear 1st without any competition when it comes to open world PvP setting in an MMORPG. I see some mentions but WvW of GW2 is nothing like Cyrodiil, but i would love to play in Cyrodiil with GW2 combat system. One can only dream!

And you cant really compare GW2 performance to ESO. ESO has action combat with heavy-medium attacks, sprint, block etc. So there is more network communication. GW2 combat has a slower pace. Furthermore ESO textures have higher quality than GW2, so when you have too many players and vfx on your screen, you are going to need a better PC to avoid local hardware bottlenecks. ESO has also more calculations when it comes to dmg, etc. as there are more parameters that need to be considered, which will be heavier on CPU, both on game servers and local hardwares.

My baseline ping in GW2 on the eastern NA servers is 60-70 ms, and I don't have any lag spikes there whatsoever. My baseline ping in ESO on the NA server is now around 130 ms, with frequent spikes going as high as 999+ ms. Same computer, same stable internet connection. Something has felt terribly wrong with ESO's networking for months now. It's not affecting every customer, sure, but it's affecting enough of us that it warrants considerable concern. Why is it just this game that we're struggling with? Why aren't we all having these same issues in WoW, GW2, T&L, etc?

Sluggy

Aurielle wrote: »

Why is it just this game that we're struggling with? Why aren't we all having these same issues in WoW, GW2, T&L, etc?

To be fair, I do have these exact same issues with one other game. Diablo4. But honestly, I find bugs on nearly an hourly basis in that game and when you consider the myriad of beginner technical mistakes they made that eventually came to light I'd say that just says more about ESO.

Four_Fingers

Just do away with 40K health builds with 5K damage with infinite resources and health regen and PvP will be much better.
I believe one of the devs plays that build.

Warhawke_80

Aurielle wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

ESO PVP community:
We want new pvp content.

Also pvp community:
We need only death match.

I've never heard anyone who plays Cyro who has asked for deathmatch.

Actually, I haven't played Cyro with anyone that actually plays BGs.

I think more PvPers just want performance to be better. Sure, content would be great, but performance is so terrible right now that there is no point in bringing any new content because we won't be able to enjoy it.

A guildmate of mine wanted to show me how "awesome" PvP was, so he took me on a tour of Cyrodiil and some battlegrounds. It was honestly embarrassing and not fun at all.

At this point, it feels like the devs are just letting Cyrodiil decay. The place is practically empty. It’s like they held a war, but no one showed up. Sooner or later, the devs will have to face the reality that an empty Cyrodiil makes the entire game feel neglected. Sure, they can keep trying to revive the current PvP scene, but at some point, they’ll have to throw in the towel, end this version of the world, and repurpose that huge area into something players will actually use....

As has been stated to you previously, @Warhawke_80 , Cyrodiil is only “empty” because ZOS made it so. The population caps in Cyrodiil used to be 600 per alliance, and it was an incredible experience. ZOS gradually reduced the caps because they couldn’t fix the crippling large scale PVP performance issues that crept into the game over time — not because “no one showed up” to the war. With each reduction in the player cap, more PVPers moved on to other games. Population caps these days have been reduced to an estimated 60-80 players per alliance, and Cyrodiil is now a shadow of its former self. This is ZOS’s fault. Not the PVP population’s fault.

I’m sure you’d be quite happy if PVP was removed from this game completely, as you’ve made your anti-PVP and anti-PVPer stance very clear in this forum, but be careful what you wish for. Some of the biggest Crown Crate whales I know in this game are PVPers who want the fanciest mounts on the battlefield. PVPers also tend to buy chapters and DLCs on release rather than waiting for sales, as they want access to the OP sets associated with those releases right away — not months later after the sets have been nerfed. Eliminating this source of revenue would undoubtedly be bad for the longevity of the game.

/sigh...

I don't care why a thing is dead..only that it's dead.

Yes I hate PVP.....that is the reason I co-lead a DAoC and Lineage II guild...I like PVP when it fits is fun and engaging and has a broader interest...That ain't ESO...that isn't even in ESO's same galaxy...and lets face it ...


It never will be....I'm sorry but it just won't.


Never once said remove PVP..in fact I offered a logical way to kick start PVP ( a couple ways actually one of them where you could literally PVP anywhere except cities) ...the problem is the PVP community starts screeching that people want to kill PVP every time anyone suggest taking their precious (in this case Cyrodil) away despite the precious being a dead rotted, boring, lame, unfun, buggy, mess ....THEY have made it perfectly clear that THEY would rather have the game shut down than change anything about their failed PVP game

Few care what Cyrodil use to or was meant to be...what it is now is dead and it's not coming back...so bring in the bull dozers and start the frigging renovations, because it wouldn't be a loss of anything.... point of fact making Cyrodil a PVE zone would be a license to print money for the next three expansions at least...they could do an entire expansion on the Imperial city alone...they could make the player be part of the rebuilding process....to quote Judge Doom...


My God, it'll be beautiful.

Aurielle

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

ESO PVP community:
We want new pvp content.

Also pvp community:
We need only death match.

I've never heard anyone who plays Cyro who has asked for deathmatch.

Actually, I haven't played Cyro with anyone that actually plays BGs.

I think more PvPers just want performance to be better. Sure, content would be great, but performance is so terrible right now that there is no point in bringing any new content because we won't be able to enjoy it.

A guildmate of mine wanted to show me how "awesome" PvP was, so he took me on a tour of Cyrodiil and some battlegrounds. It was honestly embarrassing and not fun at all.

At this point, it feels like the devs are just letting Cyrodiil decay. The place is practically empty. It’s like they held a war, but no one showed up. Sooner or later, the devs will have to face the reality that an empty Cyrodiil makes the entire game feel neglected. Sure, they can keep trying to revive the current PvP scene, but at some point, they’ll have to throw in the towel, end this version of the world, and repurpose that huge area into something players will actually use....

As has been stated to you previously, @Warhawke_80 , Cyrodiil is only “empty” because ZOS made it so. The population caps in Cyrodiil used to be 600 per alliance, and it was an incredible experience. ZOS gradually reduced the caps because they couldn’t fix the crippling large scale PVP performance issues that crept into the game over time — not because “no one showed up” to the war. With each reduction in the player cap, more PVPers moved on to other games. Population caps these days have been reduced to an estimated 60-80 players per alliance, and Cyrodiil is now a shadow of its former self. This is ZOS’s fault. Not the PVP population’s fault.

I’m sure you’d be quite happy if PVP was removed from this game completely, as you’ve made your anti-PVP and anti-PVPer stance very clear in this forum, but be careful what you wish for. Some of the biggest Crown Crate whales I know in this game are PVPers who want the fanciest mounts on the battlefield. PVPers also tend to buy chapters and DLCs on release rather than waiting for sales, as they want access to the OP sets associated with those releases right away — not months later after the sets have been nerfed. Eliminating this source of revenue would undoubtedly be bad for the longevity of the game.

/sigh...

I don't care why a thing is dead..only that it's dead.

Yes I hate PVP.....that is the reason I co-lead a DAoC and Lineage II guild...I like PVP when it fits is fun and engaging and has a broader interest...That ain't ESO...that isn't even in ESO's same galaxy...and lets face it ...


It never will be....I'm sorry but it just won't.


Never once said remove PVP..in fact I offered a logical way to kick start PVP ( a couple ways actually one of them where you could literally PVP anywhere except cities) ...the problem is the PVP community starts screeching that people want to kill PVP every time anyone suggest taking their precious (in this case Cyrodil) away despite the precious being a dead rotted, boring, lame, unfun, buggy, mess ....THEY have made it perfectly clear that THEY would rather have the game shut down than change anything about their failed PVP game

Few care what Cyrodil use to or was meant to be...what it is now is dead and it's not coming back...so bring in the bull dozers and start the frigging renovations.

You co-lead a DAoC guild and you think it’s a bad thing that PVPers in this game still care about and want large scale AvAvA siege warfare? That’s… odd?

Again, Cyrodiil isn’t dead because PVPers killed it, it’s dead because ZOS killed it with neglect. You say you don’t care WHY it’s dead, but then the rest of your response just shifts the blame straight back onto PVPers. No, of course we don’t want new shiny PVP game modes. If we did, Battlegrounds would be far more popular. We just want a functional Cyrodiil and fun, epic AvAvA fights with big numbers again. Is that really so much to ask?

Warhawke_80

Aurielle wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

ESO PVP community:
We want new pvp content.

Also pvp community:
We need only death match.

I've never heard anyone who plays Cyro who has asked for deathmatch.

Actually, I haven't played Cyro with anyone that actually plays BGs.

I think more PvPers just want performance to be better. Sure, content would be great, but performance is so terrible right now that there is no point in bringing any new content because we won't be able to enjoy it.

A guildmate of mine wanted to show me how "awesome" PvP was, so he took me on a tour of Cyrodiil and some battlegrounds. It was honestly embarrassing and not fun at all.

At this point, it feels like the devs are just letting Cyrodiil decay. The place is practically empty. It’s like they held a war, but no one showed up. Sooner or later, the devs will have to face the reality that an empty Cyrodiil makes the entire game feel neglected. Sure, they can keep trying to revive the current PvP scene, but at some point, they’ll have to throw in the towel, end this version of the world, and repurpose that huge area into something players will actually use....

As has been stated to you previously, @Warhawke_80 , Cyrodiil is only “empty” because ZOS made it so. The population caps in Cyrodiil used to be 600 per alliance, and it was an incredible experience. ZOS gradually reduced the caps because they couldn’t fix the crippling large scale PVP performance issues that crept into the game over time — not because “no one showed up” to the war. With each reduction in the player cap, more PVPers moved on to other games. Population caps these days have been reduced to an estimated 60-80 players per alliance, and Cyrodiil is now a shadow of its former self. This is ZOS’s fault. Not the PVP population’s fault.

I’m sure you’d be quite happy if PVP was removed from this game completely, as you’ve made your anti-PVP and anti-PVPer stance very clear in this forum, but be careful what you wish for. Some of the biggest Crown Crate whales I know in this game are PVPers who want the fanciest mounts on the battlefield. PVPers also tend to buy chapters and DLCs on release rather than waiting for sales, as they want access to the OP sets associated with those releases right away — not months later after the sets have been nerfed. Eliminating this source of revenue would undoubtedly be bad for the longevity of the game.

/sigh...

I don't care why a thing is dead..only that it's dead.

Yes I hate PVP.....that is the reason I co-lead a DAoC and Lineage II guild...I like PVP when it fits is fun and engaging and has a broader interest...That ain't ESO...that isn't even in ESO's same galaxy...and lets face it ...


It never will be....I'm sorry but it just won't.


Never once said remove PVP..in fact I offered a logical way to kick start PVP ( a couple ways actually one of them where you could literally PVP anywhere except cities) ...the problem is the PVP community starts screeching that people want to kill PVP every time anyone suggest taking their precious (in this case Cyrodil) away despite the precious being a dead rotted, boring, lame, unfun, buggy, mess ....THEY have made it perfectly clear that THEY would rather have the game shut down than change anything about their failed PVP game

Few care what Cyrodil use to or was meant to be...what it is now is dead and it's not coming back...so bring in the bull dozers and start the frigging renovations.

. We just want a functional Cyrodiil and fun, epic AvAvA fights with big numbers again. Is that really so much to ask?

And I want my mount to not have a creepy grin...

But it ain't happenin...they would have done it by now if they could...

albertberku

Aurielle wrote: »

What would you call this other than "bad performance"?

Well, this never happens to me, or to other players i see, i play with, i fight against, etc. During prime time main campaign is always locked, and i just move from castle to castle, big scale, small scale, ballgroups, 1v1, whatever, i never notice anyone cant react during fights. Yeah, sometimes bar swap or break free takes half second longer when there are 20 other players on top of you, but 3 seconds rubberbanding, i have never killed anyone or got killed because of that during my 2k+ hours Cyrodiil PvP.

You say WoW, but do you have 60 - 70 players in the same spot there during PvP? Even then WoW has far less networking involved with 1.5 sec global cooldown, lots of casting time, and for example skills like Blink there is instant, but in ESO gap closers or teleport/dash skills have full animation, probably whole animation is network replicated. As i said before, is there any other game setting that has that amount of networking going on ESO has due to its fast paced combat, GW2 is also smaller compared to ESO, when it comes to networking needs. So, is maybe your internet connection enough for other games but not for how demanding ESO is due to its action combat?

What i mean is, there is probably only 1 MMORPG that can be compared to ESO when it comes to networking needs. And it is New World, because it has action combat, as well. And why does New World only has 100 people PvP cap at its biggest PvP mode? Because otherwise people complaining here about Cyrodiil performance would complain there. This is also why they had to lower the Cyrodiil cap here. ESO has the biggest PvP population in a single instance atm, also when considered that this game has action combat. There is no other PvP game in a single instance with that much network communication in a second, and nothing come close. So no wonder why other games work fine for you and not ESO.

Aurielle

albertberku wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

What would you call this other than "bad performance"?

Well, this never happens to me, or to other players i see, i play with, i fight against, etc. During prime time main campaign is always locked, and i just move from castle to castle, big scale, small scale, ballgroups, 1v1, whatever, i never notice anyone cant react during fights. Yeah, sometimes bar swap or break free takes half second longer when there are 20 other players on top of you, but 3 seconds rubberbanding, i have never killed anyone or got killed because of that during my 2k+ hours Cyrodiil PvP.

You say WoW, but do you have 60 - 70 players in the same spot there during PvP? Even then WoW has far less networking involved with 1.5 sec global cooldown, lots of casting time, and for example skills like Blink there is instant, but in ESO gap closers or teleport/dash skills have full animation, probably whole animation is network replicated. As i said before, is there any other game setting that has that amount of networking going on ESO has due to its fast paced combat, GW2 is also smaller compared to ESO, when it comes to networking needs. So, is maybe your internet connection enough for other games but not for how demanding ESO is due to its action combat?

Please refer to this now 69 page thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/658253/zos-massive-spike-in-ping-lag-in-recent-days-what-gives#latest

It's great that you're not having problems with game performance, but many of us are and it's bleeding the game's population. It's not our PCs and it's not our internet connections, because we're able to play other online games that are just as resource-intense as ESO (if not more so) without issue. You mention GW2 and WoW aren't as demanding because of skill cooldowns... but what about new games like T&L? Sure, there are skill cooldowns there too, but it's a far more demanding game than ESO on the whole. There's large scale PVP in that game that dwarfs what's even possible in ESO right now with the population caps. People who are having major issues with ESO are not having those same issues in T&L.

albertberku

Aurielle wrote: »

but what about new games like T&L?

I didnt check T&L yet, i dont know how the combat there works, but i will give you one example. When your character blocks, you send a package to the server and then server sends to every client a package to let them know you are blocking, so your game plays block animation for that particular character. In ESO you can start and stop sprint, blocking, medium attacks, etc any time. You can send both a light attack and an ability in a split second to the server, and then a block and then start a sprint and stop it directly afterwards. So you can send 5 - 6 packages in a second. These are Dark Souls mechanics, but even worse because you can cancel animations and combine everything with everything and it is a mess and they have it in a MMORPG. And on top of that character speeds are insane in ESO, so probably there is a higher rate of position replication here compared to WoW and GW2. You could interpolate position and not replicate every frame but when the players are that fast you have to do it more often as the position changes faster. And this stuff is happening for every player in a huge open world PvP instance with the highest player cap by far in the industry.

How is it in T&L? Do you have these mechanics or is it based on cooldowns like GW2 and WoW, in which you only send 1 package in a second at most? Graphics, etc. are not really important when it comes to networking, it is all about combat mechanics. As i said, i know only New World that could possibly have these kind of network communication and they have hardly capped PvP. This is also why devs have designed MMORPG combat around global cooldowns, to limit network communication. ESO looks like they dont really care about it xD

What ESO has to do is not to fix or upgrade anything but they have to seriously chill with their fast paced combat and introduce real animations, some cooldowns, no cancelling and no weaving like how a sane MMORPG does like GW2 or WoW.

katanagirl1

Cyrodiil has its issues, but it is still the most exciting area of the game by a mile. I don’t know how it can be called stale or dead, every battle is something different, it is not like running the same group dungeons over and over again.

We do have lower population than before, but I log in nearly every day and spend a couple of hours there. Sometimes it takes longer to get enough players on to get our scrolls back after one of the other faction’s 3 bars pop lock every single day. It can be frustrating with ball groups too. It should not be scrapped because a vocal minority that does not participate wants the zone to become something completely different.

moderatelyfatman

albertberku wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

but what about new games like T&L?

I didnt check T&L yet, i dont know how the combat there works, but i will give you one example. When your character blocks, you send a package to the server and then server sends to every client a package to let them know you are blocking, so your game plays block animation for that particular character. In ESO you can start and stop sprint, blocking, medium attacks, etc any time. You can send both a light attack and an ability in a split second to the server, and then a block and then start a sprint and stop it directly afterwards. So you can send 5 - 6 packages in a second. These are Dark Souls mechanics, but even worse because you can cancel animations and combine everything with everything and it is a mess and they have it in a MMORPG. And on top of that character speeds are insane in ESO, so probably there is a higher rate of position replication here compared to WoW and GW2. You could interpolate position and not replicate every frame but when the players are that fast you have to do it more often as the position changes faster. And this stuff is happening for every player in a huge open world PvP instance with the highest player cap by far in the industry.

How is it in T&L? Do you have these mechanics or is it based on cooldowns like GW2 and WoW, in which you only send 1 package in a second at most? Graphics, etc. are not really important when it comes to networking, it is all about combat mechanics. As i said, i know only New World that could possibly have these kind of network communication and they have hardly capped PvP. This is also why devs have designed MMORPG combat around global cooldowns, to limit network communication. ESO looks like they dont really care about it xD

What ESO has to do is not to fix or upgrade anything but they have to seriously chill with their fast paced combat and introduce real animations, some cooldowns, no cancelling and no weaving like how a sane MMORPG does like GW2 or WoW.

You present an interesting argument as to why ESO struggles in mass combats compared to other MMOs.
However, our problem is that current ESO performance struggles to match ESO from 3-4 years ago. After the server upgrades the population cap should have gone UP, not down.

ComboBreaker88

Pvp definitely needs a rework

Nerouyn

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I feel the only reason PvP really lives at all in ESO is Cyrodiil is setup great.

That great big map where players cycle through characters in different factions to progressively turn the map yellow, blue, red ad infinitum?

To farm AP and allow the many players who have no interest in PvP to get just those skyshards etc. and be done with it.

With almost no real pvp.

Cyrodiil wasn't a bad idea broadly speaking but I don't think they ever had the network capacity for it. Back when there was some semblance of real pvp there, I couldn't stay connected during any battle.

But I also think it was a terrible idea for this IP and especially this game.

The single player games include conflicts but at the end of the day, mostly everyone tries to get along with each other and the empire keeps things nice and orderly.

ESO's setting is different and the main story explains that, but the end of the main story absolutely should put an end to the war, regardless of some NPC begging off with "It's complicated. The war must go on!"

In no game, single or multi player, have I ever seen such a massive story disconnect.