Pvp is slowly dying

TDVM

Pvp is slowly dying from lack of content, terrible balance and adding a new arena/mode(most likely) will not fix this situation. Also in pvp there is no motivation to play, for fun? And what fun can be if the balance does not change for several years and this is not to mention the balance of classes.

BlueRaven

Well there is supposed to be a Q4 PvP update, but the nature of the update remains unclear.

That being said, I used to love PvP in eso. Back when it was giant battles between huge armies of people.
But now that has changed, and I have to admit the players themselves have also contributed to me avoiding cyrodiil.

Sylosi

Unless your standards are very low, it has been dead for years.

Jierdanit

Sylosi wrote: »

Unless your standards are very low, it has been dead for years.

If you have high standards you're not playing ESO PvP for long.

SkaiFaith

I can't argue much about PvP since I rarely partecipate in It but to me Battlegrounds seems real fun and if it gets improved Is already good news!

One thing I would "push back" Is the will to have more balance changes - no thanks. Little adjustments are ok, but many many players would never want to return as It was back then, with major shifts every 3 months. Absolutely don't. Please...

loosej

Agree that a new game mode probably won't be enough to entice PvP enthusiasts to stay or return. Finding a way to give us back the Alliance War instead of the current Alliance Low Intensity Conflict would have been a better move.

Zodiarkslayer

Agreed. Outside of Mayham events, PvP is dead and will remain so.

The reasons are many, but the most important thing is the massive imbalance between effort and reward.
If you want to get into PvP, you'll have to endure so many "unfun" situations, that the motivation to go on is very difficult to muster.

Imo, Cyrodiil and Imperial City should be discontinued and only Battlegrounds should be supported going foreward. Then this game mode can be seperated from the PvE game with different abilities and equipment, which will then be much easier to balance. Also, the rewards can be adjusted to reflect this developement.

And then finally we'll have a fun PvP experience.

TechMaybeHic

I feel the only reason PvP really lives at all in ESO is Cyrodiil is setup great. Others of its kind are more dated. New World came along and people disappeared until they found out New World was not persistent and heavily gated and similar to the grind fests like Black Desert or Archeage. TnL is coming and it's probably going to be the same thing.

It's amazing to me that game devs don't see that market or can't capitalize on a persistence siege pvp mode market that is out there; and ZOS seems to have given up even pretending they haven't abandoned it.

CatoUnchained

Well, with pop caps of 60-80 players/faction options are pretty limited for those of us who love PvP.

To me it seems like ZOS should sell housing and Cyrodiil separately from the base game, then figure out a way to integrate the three games.

Course, ZOS would have to make PvP work properly first. So not very likely to happen.

Major_Mangle

At this point I'd like zos to actually consider getting rid of campaigns like Blackreach and Icereach (Icereach/sub 50 has 0 purpose and is honestly just waste of pixels and server space, just remove it already. People only use it to sell emp anyway).

Have two campaigns:
* Grey Host, CP PvP without faction locks
* Ravenwatch, no CP PvP without faction locks.
Add a small cooldown on how often you can swap between alliances (once every 12-24 hours), just to prevent the most extreme faction hoppers.

The current problem is that population caps are too low and at the same time PvP doesn't have the population it used to. We also have too many campaigns which spreads out the population even more.

BetterAtChess

It has been left to burn over the last few years with the devs far less proactive in adjusting sets/skills that are problematic in a PVP environment e.g. shattered fate, hardened ward, cross healing....I think hybridization had a negative impact as well - it empowered some classes to a ridiculous degree while leaving others trailing behind.

The biggest problem though on XBOX is the sheer lack of player population - it's very hard to find good fights outside of prime time on the weekends; players seem to have voted with their feet and moved on, that's what I did.

xDeusEJRx

I maintain that pvp has been dead since No proc testing in 2021. The game felt alive because everything was new back then.

New armor passives, new CP system and therefore new progression and entirely new meta. Essentially it was like playing an entirely new game and re-learning the game all over again.

Morale of the story, the game feels fresh when you get new content to play with and learn. PVP has not had any new additions in 6 years and only no proc testing felt like a "new game" and that was 3 years ago.

If PVP ever were to feel "alive" the devs would need to start caring about it and updating it, not just reworks to a skill or passive every 6 months to a year, that's not enough.

brtomkin

Updating/improving pvp rewards would make me happy. Stuff like:
- After collecting all the BG style pages, start drawing style pages and motifs from the entire rest of the game.
- Add ALL of the pvp sets to the rewards for the worthy, and curate them
- Add arena weapons to the Golden Vendor (NOT the perfected versions of course) and monster set style pages
- Sell tri-pots and some other food/drink choices for alliance points

Artim_X

PvP pays for my housing addiction and smacking actual players is its own reward.

I'm hopeful the new PvP continent will be something worthwhile, but I also would like for Cyrodiil lag to be fixed. One can only dream.

kargen27

Major_Mangle wrote: »

At this point I'd like zos to actually consider getting rid of campaigns like Blackreach and Icereach (Icereach/sub 50 has 0 purpose and is honestly just waste of pixels and server space, just remove it already. People only use it to sell emp anyway).

Have two campaigns:
* Grey Host, CP PvP without faction locks
* Ravenwatch, no CP PvP without faction locks.
Add a small cooldown on how often you can swap between alliances (once every 12-24 hours), just to prevent the most extreme faction hoppers.

The current problem is that population caps are too low and at the same time PvP doesn't have the population it used to. We also have too many campaigns which spreads out the population even more.

So the fix is getting rid of the most popular option in Cyrodiil?

Major_Mangle

kargen27 wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

At this point I'd like zos to actually consider getting rid of campaigns like Blackreach and Icereach (Icereach/sub 50 has 0 purpose and is honestly just waste of pixels and server space, just remove it already. People only use it to sell emp anyway).

Have two campaigns:
* Grey Host, CP PvP without faction locks
* Ravenwatch, no CP PvP without faction locks.
Add a small cooldown on how often you can swap between alliances (once every 12-24 hours), just to prevent the most extreme faction hoppers.

The current problem is that population caps are too low and at the same time PvP doesn't have the population it used to. We also have too many campaigns which spreads out the population even more.

So the fix is getting rid of the most popular option in Cyrodiil?

The most popular campaign is already grey host on majority of servers regardless of server and region so not sure what you're implying. And what exactly are we getting rid of with such a change, with the exception of removing faction locks which has nothing to do with population of a campaign anyway. Players flock to wherever other players are regardless. PCEU last patch is a prime example of that where Blackreach became the most popular campaign because the players were fed up with multiple DC groups completely zerging down everything in Greyhost. The result: Everyone moved to Blackreach which became the most popular campaign for a month or so.

My point is that we don't need as many campaigns or PvP settings to spread the PvP population. And such a change that I suggested would obviously come with increased population caps for each campaign to accommodate for fewer campaigns.

Einar_Hrafnarsson

Cyrodiil is the same thing every day:

Smallscales vs random people they snatch of on the Road.

Ballgroups vs a few defenders on Keep Walls.

That one dude kiting 4 randoms around in a Tower.

Half the Population AFK in the Safe Zone waiting for a Keep to light up.

shadyjane62

Get rid of ball groups and I'll come back. Never signed up to get mowed down by crazy groups of 15 or 20 robots.

Dragonnord

You call PvP ball groups running from A to B and from B to A killing rookies?

You call PvP 50 players attacking a keep with zero resistance?

You call PvP using empty campaigns to get your pvp titles without doing any pvp, even working together with enemy factions?

You call PvP pro players not fighting each other and only killing unexperienced players to raise their egos?

You call PvP killing questers?

You call PvP receiving a hate pm from offline mode players for every single thing you do?

You call PvP players using proc sets to fight for them instead of using their own real skills?

You call PvP try-hards constantly trying to find cheats and exploits they can use as an advantage?

You call that PvP? If so, disgusting social environment.

Better let PvP die...
 

kargen27

Major_Mangle wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

At this point I'd like zos to actually consider getting rid of campaigns like Blackreach and Icereach (Icereach/sub 50 has 0 purpose and is honestly just waste of pixels and server space, just remove it already. People only use it to sell emp anyway).

Have two campaigns:
* Grey Host, CP PvP without faction locks
* Ravenwatch, no CP PvP without faction locks.
Add a small cooldown on how often you can swap between alliances (once every 12-24 hours), just to prevent the most extreme faction hoppers.

The current problem is that population caps are too low and at the same time PvP doesn't have the population it used to. We also have too many campaigns which spreads out the population even more.

So the fix is getting rid of the most popular option in Cyrodiil?

The most popular campaign is already grey host on majority of servers regardless of server and region so not sure what you're implying. And what exactly are we getting rid of with such a change, with the exception of removing faction locks which has nothing to do with population of a campaign anyway. Players flock to wherever other players are regardless. PCEU last patch is a prime example of that where Blackreach became the most popular campaign because the players were fed up with multiple DC groups completely zerging down everything in Greyhost. The result: Everyone moved to Blackreach which became the most popular campaign for a month or so.

My point is that we don't need as many campaigns or PvP settings to spread the PvP population. And such a change that I suggested would obviously come with increased population caps for each campaign to accommodate for fewer campaigns.

Faction lock is exactly what I am talking about. When the campaigns were divided into locked and open the locked campaign became the overwhelming favorite. So taking away the one thing that separated the favorite campaign from the others is the same thing as getting rid of the most popular campaign.
Grey Host almost every night is population locked. If there is not a significant increase in the number of players allowed per campaign then yes we do need more than just two campaigns. If there was no population lock I would tend to agree.

LaintalAy

BlueRaven wrote: »

Well there is supposed to be a Q4 PvP update, but the nature of the update remains unclear.

There's a Twitch thingie about it.

I can't drive a twitch, so I didn't watch it.

Looks like no-one else did either.

There's also no one asking in the forum about it. I would, but I don't do PvP.

Have a look at the twitch (formerly twitch) thingie.

joergino

That "Twitch thingie" hasn't happened yet, it's going to take place on Tuesday.

Here's the announcement:

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/66609

It was also mentioned by someone that whatever the great PvP system will be, will most likely be battlegrounds related. No idea where this idea came from, but the pet they give as a reward for watching the stream certainly also points into that direction.

Pelanora

I see eso has dropped out of the top 100/top sellers for Steam, Xbox, Sony....I hope something good happens this and next year.

shadyjane62

Pelanora wrote: »

I see eso has dropped out of the top 100/top sellers for Steam, Xbox, Sony....I hope something good happens this and next year.

I have already given up hoping.

MISTFORMBZZZ

Its just the population dying step by step.

ShadowPaladin

Einar_Hrafnarsson wrote: »

Cyrodiil is the same thing every day:

Smallscales vs random people they snatch of on the Road.

Ballgroups vs a few defenders on Keep Walls.

That one dude kiting 4 randoms around in a Tower.

--> All of that is why half the Population is AFK in the Safe Zone waiting for a Keep to light up.

I clouldn't have said it any better !!!

Just let me change one thing, so that it fits a bit better .

Dragonnord wrote: »

You call PvP ball groups running from A to B and from B to A killing rookies?

You call PvP 50 players attacking a keep with zero resistance?

You call PvP using empty campaigns to get your pvp titles without doing any pvp, even working together with enemy factions?

You call PvP pro players not fighting each other and only killing unexperienced players to raise their egos?

You call PvP killing questers?

You call PvP receiving a hate pm from offline mode players for every single thing you do?

You call PvP players using proc sets to fight for them instead of using their own real skills?

You call PvP try-hards constantly trying to find cheats and exploits they can use as an advantage?

You call that PvP? If so, disgusting social environment.

Better let PvP die...
 

You are 100% right with that. 90% of the people I know, who do want to play PvP as casual gamers and enjoy it, quit doing so because of all the things you mentioned.



I myself only play PvP if I don't want to do anything else or if the PvP-Event is up and running. But even during those times I get frustrated when I see ball groups farming players for APs, killing the same players not 10, not 50, but 100 times over and over again and no one, even coordinated groups not being able to kill them.

Sorry to break it to the PvP pro players, who did not noticed it till now, but if you keep steamrolling casual players like that they will stop playing PvP and since the majority of the games playerbase is made up of casuals, you are only hurting yourself.

Make PvP casual player friendly and you will see players doing PvP. But as long as a tiny number of PvP players do hold 90% of the power, because the system as it is atm allows them to do so, 90% of the players, who might want to do PvP won't do it .

LadyGP

The perception from the PvP community is that ZoS gave up on cyrodiil long ago - they can't figure out how to solve the lag and instead have taken a "less is more" approach to it. Again, this is the overall perception that those you talk to will say.

Now is the the reality - not sure. The actions, or lack there of, regarding Cyrodiil specifically are extremely telling though.

Roctan

The current state of PvP in Elder Scrolls Online (ESO), particularly in the Imperial City and Cyrodiil, feels unbalanced. Increasingly, players encounter situations where a single player can withstand and defeat groups of 10 or more, even when those groups are using crowd control (stuns, snares, interrupts) that appear to have no effect. While it's understandable that skilled players can take on multiple opponents, the current dynamic—where one player is seemingly immune to control effects and can quickly eliminate others—indicates a deeper imbalance.

Consequences:

This imbalance is leading to frustration among players, especially those who engage in group PvP. When entire teams struggle to take down a single opponent due to issues like immunity to control effects or excessive self-healing, it erodes the fun and competitive spirit of PvP. Many players have expressed that they feel powerless in these situations, which can lead to burnout and, ultimately, players leaving the game. As the PvP player base shrinks, the quality of gameplay declines, which further hurts ESO’s longevity.

Suggestions for Improvement:

Adjust Immunity and Self-Healing Capabilities: A small adjustment to reduce the duration or frequency of immunity to stuns and snares, and slightly lowering self-healing capabilities in PvP, could make a big difference. This would maintain the power of well-built characters but prevent them from becoming virtually invincible against large groups.

Improve Group Damage Coordination Buffs: Introduce or enhance group-based buffs or debuffs that make coordinated attacks more effective. This would reward teams that work together and help counter overly powerful individual players. For example, making certain crowd control effects stack or applying diminishing returns on immunity timers would give groups a fighting chance.

With these minor tweaks, ESO's PvP experience could feel much more balanced, ensuring that both solo players and groups can enjoy competitive battles.

Due to the issues mentioned above, five of my friends—who were dedicated PvP players—have quit ESO just in the past week. The frustration of repeatedly encountering unbalanced situations, where a single player can easily take on entire groups without being affected by crowd control, has caused them to lose interest in the game. They felt that the fun and competitiveness of PvP had diminished to the point where it wasn't worth playing anymore. Unfortunately, this kind of frustration is becoming more common, and it's pushing long-time players away from the game.

Syiccal

For a game originally marketed

Roctan wrote: »

The current state of PvP in Elder Scrolls Online (ESO), particularly in the Imperial City and Cyrodiil, feels unbalanced. Increasingly, players encounter situations where a single player can withstand and defeat groups of 10 or more, even when those groups are using crowd control (stuns, snares, interrupts) that appear to have no effect. While it's understandable that skilled players can take on multiple opponents, the current dynamic—where one player is seemingly immune to control effects and can quickly eliminate others—indicates a deeper imbalance.

Consequences:

This imbalance is leading to frustration among players, especially those who engage in group PvP. When entire teams struggle to take down a single opponent due to issues like immunity to control effects or excessive self-healing, it erodes the fun and competitive spirit of PvP. Many players have expressed that they feel powerless in these situations, which can lead to burnout and, ultimately, players leaving the game. As the PvP player base shrinks, the quality of gameplay declines, which further hurts ESO’s longevity.

Suggestions for Improvement:

Adjust Immunity and Self-Healing Capabilities: A small adjustment to reduce the duration or frequency of immunity to stuns and snares, and slightly lowering self-healing capabilities in PvP, could make a big difference. This would maintain the power of well-built characters but prevent them from becoming virtually invincible against large groups.

Improve Group Damage Coordination Buffs: Introduce or enhance group-based buffs or debuffs that make coordinated attacks more effective. This would reward teams that work together and help counter overly powerful individual players. For example, making certain crowd control effects stack or applying diminishing returns on immunity timers would give groups a fighting chance.

With these minor tweaks, ESO's PvP experience could feel much more balanced, ensuring that both solo players and groups can enjoy competitive battles.

Due to the issues mentioned above, five of my friends—who were dedicated PvP players—have quit ESO just in the past week. The frustration of repeatedly encountering unbalanced situations, where a single player can easily take on entire groups without being affected by crowd control, has caused them to lose interest in the game. They felt that the fun and competitiveness of PvP had diminished to the point where it wasn't worth playing anymore. Unfortunately, this kind of frustration is becoming more common, and it's pushing long-time players away from the game.

"Improve Group Damage Coordination Buffs: Introduce or enhance group-based buffs or debuffs that make coordinated attacks more effective. This would reward teams that work together and help counter overly powerful individual players. For example, making certain crowd control effects stack or applying diminishing returns on immunity timers would give groups a fighting chance.". This would feed into more ball groups that everyone already complain about

TechMaybeHic

Galeriano2 wrote: »

joergino wrote: »

That "Twitch thingie" hasn't happened yet, it's going to take place on Tuesday.

Here's the announcement:

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/66609

It was also mentioned by someone that whatever the great PvP system will be, pre most likely be battlegrounds related. No idea where this idea came from, but the pet they give as a reward for watching the stream certainly also points into that direction.

[snip]

It's because that info come from a certain source. It's not allowed to be specified here even though it's in all other locations. I guess it's so people need to seek it out rather than openly allow "rumors"

[edited to remove quote]

Parasaurolophus

ESO PVP community:
We want new pvp content.

Also pvp community:
We need only death match.