Teabagging

katanagirl1

TheMajority wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I don’t report players for tbagging me but I do find it offensive.

I mean I am a female playing a female character and a male player does this to me, what does it look like? I’m not a SJW by any means but male players will never know how this feels.

I guess it’s like the double standard of some words being offensive if used by certain races but not others.

The bottom line is there is no way to enforce it or keep it from happening other than the reporting system.

Yeah, it upset my wife alot to see it or have it happen, I sympathize. She don't pvp now because of this offensive action. It makes me mad too that she has to be exposed to this just because she likes pvp. I don't really enjoy pvp but I support her in it.

My LGTBQ male friends also find it very offensive and upsetting because of similar feelings. Not going into detail. But yeah. It's not ok and should be banned.

Oh yeah I did not think of that. Thanks for showing me that I am not alone.

SilverBride

I misread that. NM.

darvaria

Tbagging is completely stupid, childish and disrespectful. If you considered it in actuality, the action is down right appalling. My husband doesn't play but watches me (occassionally) and was 100% mortified by it. He asked "so it's mostly young teenagers that play this game?" I told him that sadly, no average player age is probably around 35 now. But if you banned everyone that did it, you would probably have about 20 players left in PVP. I PVP and have never done this once. I've been in PVP guilds that don't allow it and PVP guilds that always tbag someone they know and most they don't know. During 3 hours of play, I probably get tbagged 5-8 times

I hate that your wife doesn't PVP because of it. We NEED all players that want to PVP. And had not thought about it bothering LGTBQ males so that is sad too.

The problem here Is that it is driving players away from PVP.

Hmmm ... ZOS could take away the action of crouching. Just let players go have a purple halo or something when going invisible. If it's driving players away from PVP, ZOS could easily change the coding on "crouching". But then the fools would probably just do push ups or think of something else with equally vulgar implications. I mean we have /kissthis .... that should be enough. Or they can shovel if they think they must absolutely do "something".

ZOS consider changing crouching emulation. PLEASE. I would think of the legal possibilities on this one. And the right person gets offended by it, I can see it being a legal problem. And the push ups too.

tsaescishoeshiner

I believe what the terms of service says is that you have to ask people not to do it before reporting them, which is like a middleground. I've done it before, and it feels quite silly lol. It's usually not someone you're personally interacting with otherwise, so messaging them feels sorta like accosting them, even if said nicely.

darvaria wrote: »

Hmmm ... ZOS could take away the action of crouching. Just let players go have a purple halo or something when going invisible. If it's driving players away from PVP, ZOS could easily change the coding on "crouching".

I think it would be better to slow down the crouch animation--not the mechanical benefits of crouching, but make it take like 2 seconds to get all the way down instead of being almost instant. While it would still be possible, it would make it less responsive and fun, and less like the iconic teabagging momentum.

TaSheen

darvaria wrote: »

Hmmm ... ZOS could take away the action of crouching. Just let players go have a purple halo or something when going invisible. If it's driving players away from PVP, ZOS could easily change the coding on "crouching".

Crouching to enter stealth is a viable game mechanic. How about ZOS step up to the plate and disallow crouching in pvp?

Sepultura_13

Racism is supposedly a bannable offense, but I see plenty of racist character names, account names, and guild names regularly. Nothing is done about it, even when I submit screenshots and other proof of said violations. Same with impersonations, stalking, and other forms of bullying / harassment.

Teabagging is a non-issue in my book because those other violations of Codes of Conduct / Terms and Conditions are never addressed. People troll others in this game in a variety of ways. I've seen everything in the 10 years I've been playing, and don't care anymore because of the lack of action when I've reported the obvious, egregious violations.

ClowdyAllDay

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

honestly it seems pretty clear to me

its fine unless the "receiver" asks you to stop, if you dont then its reportable

personally i just dont do it, usually because to me it makes no sense when your in a busy pvp fight and you take time to t-bag half of the dead people

in pvp can you even chat with enemy players to tell them to stop?

darvaria

I didn't suggest removing "stealthing" just changing the emulation to a misty halo.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

People T-bag without considering WHO they could be T-bagging, if you T-bag others and think it is "harmless fun" consider the following, it is already inappropriate behavior but be aware that not everyone who plays ESO is an adult.

Synapsis123

reazea wrote: »

If the person being bagged can provide multiple video instances of being bagged with their complaint the offender can get a short term ban. I've never heard of anyone being permanently banned for bagging though.

For two weeks, I was repeatedly harassed in Cyrodiil by a group of gankers. They would locate me, kill my character, and then proceed to "teabag" me for over a minute each time. I attempted to ask them to stop, but they all appeared offline. In the span of a week, I was subjected to this behavior more than 30 times. Although I reported these players, I continue to see them in Cyrodiil. They still target me, but they haven't been able to teabag me recently because I now play a tanky build and employ zerg surfing tactics.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind this type of behavior if I knew I wouldn't be banned for retaliating in kind. I'm aware of people who have been permanently banned for teabagging (I've seen the ban emails). I simply want consistency in the rules: either no action is taken against teabagging, or it's a bannable offense for everyone. I prefer clear, rigid rules.

Dealing with customer support was also frustrating. They requested video evidence, so I uploaded unlisted videos to YouTube. Despite attempting to resolve my ticket multiple times without actually addressing my concern, when I checked the video analytics, there were zero views. This suggests they weren't even watching the submitted evidence. It was only after I confronted them about it that one of the three videos I had submitted finally received a view. Additionally, most of the responses I received seemed to be automated.


GIVE US CONSISTENCY ZOS. MAKE A RULING. IS IT OKAY OR NOT?

darvaria

I think that add on Target Whisper to send tells to enemy players at cyro.

Meiox

If you are unsure if something is offensive for others, then just don't do it, there is a reason you are not sure about it.
Common sense helps a lot in life ;-)

BlackRaidho

People nowadays are offended for everything.

Synapsis123

BlackRaidho wrote: »

People nowadays are offended for everything.

Offensive doesn't always come into it. A lot of it has to do with the inconsistent application of the rules.

WuffyCerulei

I’m pretty firm on my “teabagging friends only” policy since they know I joke. And they’re usually in voice chat with me. It’s just straight up harassment otherwise. However, if someone tries to get away with the whole going offline and acting like they’re untouchable and keep harassing yall , RECORD THEM. They can’t dispute that evidence. It’s the most solid thing you can have. I don’t know about console recording, but PC has a myriad of recording tools and programs.

WuffyCerulei

BlackRaidho wrote: »

People nowadays are offended for everything.

Almost like people are finally standing up for themselves against unwanted harassment. It’s not haha funny for everyone.

GuuMoonRyoung

You just revive and go away, there is no need to make yourself experience this. This thing has nothing to do with man or woman, there is just no need to put yourself though something you don't like. It is not like those tps/fps games where the game makes you watch this *** going on. Just revive and go away, don't let some nobody take advantage of you and don't give them power over you.

Cast_El

A lot of bad behavior in this game.
Most of them are bad players imo, carrying by OP proc set or zerging you, instead of saying "Good fight"(which good players do)

BlackRaidho

Cast_El wrote: »

A lot of bad behavior in this game.
Most of them are bad players imo, carrying by OP proc set or zerging you, instead of saying "Good fight"(which good players do)

Funny because the most teabagged people are the procset users

Syldras

TheMajority wrote: »

My LGTBQ male friends also find it very offensive and upsetting because of similar feelings. Not going into detail. But yeah. It's not ok and should be banned.

Apart from the simulated harassment, isn't part of the mockery the thought "Haha, I'm subjecting your character to something gay"? Or, to phrase it differently: The average stupid and juvenile homophobia?

Marko21xx wrote: »

JavaRen wrote: »

It seems the central question that ZOS needs to address to clarify this is: "Is teabagging simulated sexual assault or not?" Everything else would follow easily from that.

It is so weird to read that.. I mean the term you used.. because like when I was a teen.. the other players and I didn't even know what t-bag meant.. at least the ppl I played with.. it was just a thing..

It has always originally meant that. Just the idea of what people find "haha funny" might change within 20 or 25 years.

JavaRen wrote: »

[Snip]

[Snip]

[Edited quote/removed content]

Pelanora

TheMajority wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

JavaRen wrote: »

It seems the central question that ZOS needs to address to clarify this is: "Is teabagging simulated sexual assault or not?" Everything else would follow easily from that.

If you get assaulted other people don't get to decide whether it is assault or not.

If you get t-bagged and feel its assault, then it is assault, that's it. Other people don't get to decide if you have been violated or not. If the action is offensive and violating to you, then it's assault.

In what world do victims have to ask other people permission to say that they don't want to be violated by disgusting actions?

This should be banned outright, it is not even a discussion. It's an action which simulates assault and should not be allowed, digital or not. Simulating assault even in a fake world with fake bodies is morally wrong.

it's assault because someone has done an action, defined in an act, not because you care or they care about the action. It's an objective definition. This action is a particularly offensive and deliberate mimic of sexual assault. I agree it should be banned.

This game should not be happy to tolerate this just because it's avoiding the administration of creating a clear rule.

Sell crowns/ gold in a dodgy way, however, omg.....

It is your body/character so you define what is and is not assault, not someone else. No one gets to decide if you feel assaulted or not. If you feel assaulted, it is assault. Otherwise I agree with you, it shouldn't be tolerated.

Letting others define what is and is not assault for you leads to gaslighting and abuse. You define it, not someone else.

Assault in common law is any intentional contact whatsoever. A touch of a finger on an arm. Actually was called battery and assault was verbal only. Assault and battery. When it became a crime, not just a tort, there were degrees of it defined with penalties accordingly. And the terms were merged. So it's an objective definition and at minimum, any contact at all. Although we are expected to put up with being squashed in a packed train. And yes you can choose to pursue remedies, penalties, or not.

So you don't have to worry about gaslighting as in tort anyway it's any unwanted intentional contact. Crimes law can expect more of the degrees of harm etc etc

None of which is strictly relevant in a game, but thought it seemed like something that needed saying.

The zos that doesn't let us swear in a forum should do something about this action.

alpha_synuclein

TheMajority wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

JavaRen wrote: »

It seems the central question that ZOS needs to address to clarify this is: "Is teabagging simulated sexual assault or not?" Everything else would follow easily from that.

If you get assaulted other people don't get to decide whether it is assault or not.

If you get t-bagged and feel its assault, then it is assault, that's it. Other people don't get to decide if you have been violated or not. If the action is offensive and violating to you, then it's assault.

In what world do victims have to ask other people permission to say that they don't want to be violated by disgusting actions?

This should be banned outright, it is not even a discussion. It's an action which simulates assault and should not be allowed, digital or not. Simulating assault even in a fake world with fake bodies is morally wrong.

it's assault because someone has done an action, defined in an act, not because you care or they care about the action. It's an objective definition. This action is a particularly offensive and deliberate mimic of sexual assault. I agree it should be banned.

This game should not be happy to tolerate this just because it's avoiding the administration of creating a clear rule.

Sell crowns/ gold in a dodgy way, however, omg.....

It is your body/character so you define what is and is not assault, not someone else. No one gets to decide if you feel assaulted or not. If you feel assaulted, it is assault. Otherwise I agree with you, it shouldn't be tolerated.

Letting others define what is and is not assault for you leads to gaslighting and abuse. You define it, not someone else.

Not if you want the assaulter to be punished by an external instance. Every legal system starts from the definition of a crime, based on some form of social consensus (aka other people). Feelings of an individual are irrelevant, until there are enough of those individuals to switch the general views.

If you expect zos to punish people for teabagging, zos is the one that needs to define it as against the rules. And they do everything to not do that in a straightforward way, because blurring the responsibility works better for them.
How very corporate...

Idelise

Teabagging is an infantile gesture, sure... but at the end, it's a virtual action with very limited scope, one you can withdraw from very easily, by:
- resurrecting
- - teleporting elsewhere
-Additionally, I really do not understand players saying it's SA or a violation of THEM as their virtual character is exposed to that. They are not an extension of the player, you don't experience it physically - and if you do, it feels like you are bleeding into a virtual persona to the point of feeling mental/physical violation irl (?). I think the issue here lies somewhere else.

Sure, the gesture should be discouraged as it is simply not a mature or nice thing to do. But I'd also not overthink it and overreact claiming it to be SA. SA is something else, any victim will tell you. It's an insult to people who actually did suffer through genuine thing to compared virtual thing to that.

BlackRaidho

So much drama

Syldras

Pelanora wrote: »

Assault in common law is any intentional contact whatsoever. A touch of a finger on an arm. Actually was called battery and assault was verbal only. Assault and battery. When it became a crime, not just a tort, there were degrees of it defined with penalties accordingly.

Depends on country. Until a few years ago, kissing people against their will wasn't even legally considered a sexual misconduct in my country. The perpetrator could only be sued for "insult" (as "infringement of someone's honor").

But I think the thing the poster you quote was about is that in a game, if a behaviour is considered harassment by a certain amount of people, the people in charge should be aware of that and make in a TOS violation, no matter if there are also people who are not bothered by it. Especially when it comes to behaviour that might come across as sexualized, and especially nowadays when they emphasize awareness so much.

Pelanora

Common law trespass torts are very different than sexual assault as a crime. And common law is English law countries so including US....

I think people have stepped out of the designed game here- which is about killing each other, not particularly legal- and added something else, something really offensive, which zos should make a clear call on.

Syldras

Idelise wrote: »

-Additionally, I really do not understand players saying it's SA or a violation of THEM as their virtual character is exposed to that. They are not an extension of the player, you don't experience it physically - and if you do, it feels like you are bleeding into a virtual persona to the point of feeling mental/physical violation irl (?). I think the issue here lies somewhere else.
Sure, the gesture should be discouraged as it is simply not a mature or nice thing to do. But I'd also not overthink it and overreact claiming it to be SA. SA is something else, any victim will tell you. It's an insult to people who actually did suffer through genuine thing to compared virtual thing to that.

It doesn't come to your mind that it might be a trauma trigger for some survivors of SA?

When today it is seen as reasonable for movies and books to have a trigger warning if they describe/show fictional SA, happening to some fictive character the reader/viewer not neccessarily has a close relation to, why would that happening in an interactive, immersive gaming situation, to the player character, suddenly be seen as less critical?

Idelise

Syldras wrote: »

Idelise wrote: »

-Additionally, I really do not understand players saying it's SA or a violation of THEM as their virtual character is exposed to that. They are not an extension of the player, you don't experience it physically - and if you do, it feels like you are bleeding into a virtual persona to the point of feeling mental/physical violation irl (?). I think the issue here lies somewhere else.
Sure, the gesture should be discouraged as it is simply not a mature or nice thing to do. But I'd also not overthink it and overreact claiming it to be SA. SA is something else, any victim will tell you. It's an insult to people who actually did suffer through genuine thing to compared virtual thing to that.

It doesn't come to your mind that it might be a trauma trigger for some survivors of SA?

When today it is seen as reasonable for movies and books to have a trigger warning if they describe/show fictional SA, happening to some fictive character the reader/viewer not neccessarily has a close relation to, why would that happening in an interactive, immersive gaming situation, to the player character, suddenly be seen as less critical?

Maybe let the survivors speak for themselves instead of virtue signalling or white-knighting for the experiences of others?

MaraxusTheOrc

forum_gpt wrote: »

I've been an active player in The Elder Scrolls Online for quite some time, and I've noticed an issue that I believe needs addressing. Specifically, I'm talking about the teabagging policy, or rather, the lack of clarity around it.

As many of you know, teabagging can be a controversial topic. Some see it as a harmless part of gaming culture, while others view it as disrespectful and offensive. Recently, I've heard reports of players being banned for teabagging, yet there seems to be no clear guideline on whether this action is officially prohibited or allowed within the game.

I also see players teabagging on streams and not getting banned.

I urge the developers and moderators to provide a definitive statement on the teabagging policy. Is it allowed, or is it a bannable offense? A black-and-white answer would greatly benefit the entire ESO community by removing any gray areas and ensuring that everyone knows where they stand. ZOS should either allow teabagging or ban it outright, so players can play with confidence, knowing the boundaries.

Let's make ESO a game where everyone can enjoy themselves without the worry of unintentional rule violations.

If teabagging another player is enjoyable to you, do it. If you’re going to be toxic and a negative influence on the community by engaging in such a juvenile act, commit to the bit regardless of ZoS’s stance.

Or, we could make ESO a game where everyone can enjoy themselves by not teabagging. Just a thought.

Grizzbeorn

katanagirl1 wrote: »

male players will never know how this feels.

They know, which is why they do it.