Cyrodiil Queues are KILLING PvP! ZOS, FIX THIS NOW!

forum_propagandist · July 13

Yo ESO fam, we gotta talk about these Cyrodiil queues, they're driving me nuts! Like, I get it, everyone wants a piece of that sweet PvP action, but come on! I spent half my gaming night just staring at that queue screen the other day, and by the time I got in, my guild was already done with their raid.
It's crazy how long these waits are getting, especially during prime time or events. I mean, I love Cyrodiil and all, but this is getting ridiculous. Sometimes I feel like I'm spending more time in queue than actually fighting!
I know some people have been saying we should have a priority system or something, but idk, feels kinda unfair to make people pay just to play faster. But we gotta do something, right? Maybe they could add more campaigns or increase the player cap somehow?
Anyone else feeling this pain? What do you guys think ZOS should do about these insane Cyrodiil queues? I'm all for ideas cuz this is seriously cramping my PvP style! Let's hear your thoughts, maybe if we make enough noise the devs will actually do something about it!
I know some peeps have been talking about giving ESO+ people priority. That seems like a good idea to me.

Bammlschwamml · July 13

forum_propagandist wrote: »

Let's hear your thoughts, maybe if we make enough noise the devs will actually do something about it!

I don't see them raising the max population in Cyrodiil anytime soon. It seems like the game can't handle it. And it looks like they don't know how to fix it. No matter how much noise we make

Performance issues and bugs have been holding ESO back for many years. Not just pvp. The whole game can't reach its full potential because of this. Everyone knows that, right?

Players have been complaining and making noise for a long time. Especially pvp players and pve endgame players, who usually see and feel all the problems first (and are affected the most). Plenty of streamers and content creators made noise. "Viva la dirt league" just made a new youtube video about Bethesda games... Confrontation doesn't seem to work.

Instead of fixing what's broken, the people in charge decided to change the direction of the whole game. To attract players who don't really care about performance issues and bugs.

In addition to many other questionable choices, they reduced the population cap in Cyrodiil to a point where it has become too low to have a healthy pvp community. And then they just kept making it smaller and smaller. Cyrodiil feels empty, dead and boring now, even when it's "full". Some platforms don't even have a queue on weekends and primetime anymore. Because it's no fun to play like this.

PvE endgame is not in a good place either.

My biggest hope is that one day a nice ESO player and enthusiast (who is also a billionaire) sends them a check to fix the game. Maybe some positive reinforcement could help them find real solutions. A better working game would lead to happier players -> more players -> more money -> more reasons to keep ESO alive.

I am not sure what else the players could do. Buying more crowns might send the wrong message. Unsubscribing and not buying anything doesn't help anyone either. Maybe the devs could just tell us what's needed.

SaffronCitrusflower · July 13

What else can we expect with population caps of 60/faction give or take? That's literally 200 players on all three factions combined and Cyrodiil is full now days with pop cap this low.

Being a PvP main now feels like being caught in one of those shrinking to infinity animation bubbles.

The original pop cap was 600 players/faction. Now it's literally 10% of that. How many times have they told us "they're working on it" in the last 5 years with the only change being to reduce the population cap over and over and over again?

This is the main reason I stopped subbing after 8 plus years when U35 dropped and the pop cap was reduced again, and why I haven't bought gold road and may very well never again buy any ZOS product. When companies treat customers like this the customer remembers.

Desiato · July 13

Bammlschwamml wrote: »

Performance issues and bugs have been holding ESO back for many years. Not just pvp. The whole game can't reach its full potential because of this. Everyone knows that, right?

Nope. There are those who seem to legitimately believe that ZOS is either conspiring to destroy Cyrodiil by intentionally limiting its current potential or restricting server performance to save a couple of hundred dollars a month, as absurd as those things would be.

Bammlschwamml wrote: »

I don't see them raising the max population in Cyrodiil anytime soon. It seems like the game can't handle it. And it looks like they don't know how to fix it. No matter how much noise we make

They probably have a good idea about how to solve the underlying issues and the only reason it hasn't happened is because it's cost prohibitive. There are certainly individuals @ ZOS who would love to see this happen.

However, there would need to be a business case made to convince the execs who would have to green-light it. I think that's impossible in the context of ESO because this is primarily an ultra-casual, super easy PVE game so the avg player isn't really into PVP -- and most people who main PVP games wouldn't want to play PVE ESO.

Aurielle · July 13

forum_propagandist wrote: »

Yo ESO fam, we gotta talk about these Cyrodiil queues, they're driving me nuts! Like, I get it, everyone wants a piece of that sweet PvP action, but come on! I spent half my gaming night just staring at that queue screen the other day, and by the time I got in, my guild was already done with their raid.
It's crazy how long these waits are getting, especially during prime time or events. I mean, I love Cyrodiil and all, but this is getting ridiculous. Sometimes I feel like I'm spending more time in queue than actually fighting!
I know some people have been saying we should have a priority system or something, but idk, feels kinda unfair to make people pay just to play faster. But we gotta do something, right? Maybe they could add more campaigns or increase the player cap somehow?
Anyone else feeling this pain? What do you guys think ZOS should do about these insane Cyrodiil queues? I'm all for ideas cuz this is seriously cramping my PvP style! Let's hear your thoughts, maybe if we make enough noise the devs will actually do something about it!
I know some peeps have been talking about giving ESO+ people priority. That seems like a good idea to me.

If you’re on PC NA, I suspect a large part of the increasing wait times is how frustrated people are with the state of Blackreach at the moment (esp. if you play EP). I know a bunch of people who used to call BR home have switched over to GH because of the deliberate low pop bonus abuse happening in BR. If you’re loyal to the Pact and want to participate in fair campaigns, GH is the place to be.

SaffronCitrusflower · July 13

Desiato wrote: »

Bammlschwamml wrote: »

Performance issues and bugs have been holding ESO back for many years. Not just pvp. The whole game can't reach its full potential because of this. Everyone knows that, right?

Nope. There are those who seem to legitimately believe that ZOS is either conspiring to destroy Cyrodiil by intentionally limiting its current potential or restricting server performance to save a couple of hundred dollars a month, as absurd as those things would be.

It's only a couple hundred dollars per month to lease enough server capacity for a game like ESO? I think your math might be off by at least a couple zero's there.

Photosniper89 · July 13

They aren't going to raise it. They keep stealth lowering it to try to improve performance. Cyro is a ghost town most time frames now aside for a few key hours each day and yet everyone is pop locked.

Photosniper89 · July 13

Aurielle wrote: »

forum_propagandist wrote: »

Yo ESO fam, we gotta talk about these Cyrodiil queues, they're driving me nuts! Like, I get it, everyone wants a piece of that sweet PvP action, but come on! I spent half my gaming night just staring at that queue screen the other day, and by the time I got in, my guild was already done with their raid.
It's crazy how long these waits are getting, especially during prime time or events. I mean, I love Cyrodiil and all, but this is getting ridiculous. Sometimes I feel like I'm spending more time in queue than actually fighting!
I know some people have been saying we should have a priority system or something, but idk, feels kinda unfair to make people pay just to play faster. But we gotta do something, right? Maybe they could add more campaigns or increase the player cap somehow?
Anyone else feeling this pain? What do you guys think ZOS should do about these insane Cyrodiil queues? I'm all for ideas cuz this is seriously cramping my PvP style! Let's hear your thoughts, maybe if we make enough noise the devs will actually do something about it!
I know some peeps have been talking about giving ESO+ people priority. That seems like a good idea to me.

If you’re on PC NA, I suspect a large part of the increasing wait times is how frustrated people are with the state of Blackreach at the moment (esp. if you play EP). I know a bunch of people who used to call BR home have switched over to GH because of the deliberate low pop bonus abuse happening in BR. If you’re loyal to the Pact and want to participate in fair campaigns, GH is the place to be.

Funny, EP is the one that abuses low pop in GH

Desiato · July 13

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

It's only a couple hundred dollars per month to lease enough server capacity for a game like ESO? I think your math might be off by at least a couple zero's there.

We're not talking about the capacity of ESO as a whole but the capacity of PVP.

Players estimate the current player cap to be between 60-100 players per faction which would be about 300 players per server max.

Game servers are cheap. Software development is not.

This also illustrates how unpopular AvA actually is considering it's only one campaign that is usually poplocked per region and that's during prime time.

Sepultura_13 · July 13

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

What else can we expect with population caps of 60/faction give or take? That's literally 200 players on all three factions combined and Cyrodiil is full now days with pop cap this low.

If "full" means "every player in the faction standing at one of the home wayshrines, jumping around and spamming abilities," then yeah...Cyrodiil is "full" every time I go in. Even Volendruung or a scroll run doesn't mean anything - I just see the same time-wasting, Emp-carrying cliques doing a whole lot of nothing.

"GIT TO THA HAMMAH" used to be fun, LOL

Photosniper89 · July 13

Desiato wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

It's only a couple hundred dollars per month to lease enough server capacity for a game like ESO? I think your math might be off by at least a couple zero's there.

We're not talking about the capacity of ESO as a whole but the capacity of PVP.

Players estimate the current player cap to be between 60-100 players per faction which would be about 300 players per server max.

Game servers are cheap. Software development is not.

This also illustrates how unpopular AvA actually is considering it's only one campaign that is usually poplocked per region and that's during prime time.

Only one camp is pop locked because of the proc rules. No one wants to play a trimmed down version of end game sets. Everyone knows GH is the only camp that matters.

Desiato · July 13

Photosniper89 wrote: »

Only one camp is pop locked because of the proc rules. No one wants to play a trimmed down version of end game sets. Everyone knows GH is the only camp that matters.

False, because the no-proc campaign isn't the only alternative. There is only one poplocked campaign because the playerbase is too small to support more than one.

Photosniper89 · July 13

Desiato wrote: »

Photosniper89 wrote: »

Only one camp is pop locked because of the proc rules. No one wants to play a trimmed down version of end game sets. Everyone knows GH is the only camp that matters.

False, because the no-proc campaign isn't the only alternative. There is only one poplocked campaign because the playerbase is too small to support more than one.

False. GH is king.

GooGa592 · July 13

Desiato wrote: »

Photosniper89 wrote: »

Only one camp is pop locked because of the proc rules. No one wants to play a trimmed down version of end game sets. Everyone knows GH is the only camp that matters.

False, because the no-proc campaign isn't the only alternative. There is only one poplocked campaign because the playerbase is too small to support more than one.

False, because the AvA population is not small, that's why Grey Host is pop locked so often. This morning Grey Host was pop locked at 09:00 EST. The AvA population is not small, it's that the pop caps are so low almost nobody can get into the zone now.

N3CR01 · July 13

Bammlschwamml wrote: »

forum_propagandist wrote: »

Let's hear your thoughts, maybe if we make enough noise the devs will actually do something about it!

"Viva la dirt league" just made a new youtube video about Bethesda games... Confrontation doesn't seem to work.

Haha, love their videos and that one was so funny.

Desiato · July 13

GooGa592 wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

Photosniper89 wrote: »

Only one camp is pop locked because of the proc rules. No one wants to play a trimmed down version of end game sets. Everyone knows GH is the only camp that matters.

False, because the no-proc campaign isn't the only alternative. There is only one poplocked campaign because the playerbase is too small to support more than one.

False, because the AvA population is not small, that's why Grey Host is pop locked so often. This morning Grey Host was pop locked at 09:00 EST. The AvA population is not small, it's that the pop caps are so low almost nobody can get into the zone now.

When ESO PVP was more popular, multiple servers were commonly poplocked throughout the day on weekends and weeknight prime times. The fact only one server is considered viable shows how ridiculously unpopular it is. If it had more players, then Blackreach would be considered viable for players who don't want to have to wait for gh.

It's an objectively small playerbase measured in the thousands per region/platform. To see evidence of this, earn a minimal amount of AP on an alt and see where that character ranks in a campaign.

On top of that, a significant number of players are pve players only in Cyro to get their alts to tier 1 rewards for geodes. They're so squishy and don't pvp well because they don't really care about it. They just want AP for transmute crystals.

A commercial game with so few players would need to end operations immediately.

I'm not an AvA hater. I believe it could be popular under different circumstances -- like if PVP gamers could download and play it without the PVE requirements. However, as it exists now, it has a tiny playerbase.

Nharimlur_Finor · July 13

Bammlschwamml wrote: »

snip
I am not sure what else the players could do. Buying more crowns might send the wrong message. Unsubscribing and not buying anything doesn't help anyone either. Maybe the devs could just tell us what's needed.

I agree with most of what you posted.
On this last point, the issue of this game's financial success is pretty well known. The fact that they cannot fix the issue despite the income generated, is significant for whatever reason. People can and will theorise all they like about that.

What products players choose to buy should be based on their individual perception of value for money.

Aurielle · July 13

Photosniper89 wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

forum_propagandist wrote: »

Yo ESO fam, we gotta talk about these Cyrodiil queues, they're driving me nuts! Like, I get it, everyone wants a piece of that sweet PvP action, but come on! I spent half my gaming night just staring at that queue screen the other day, and by the time I got in, my guild was already done with their raid.
It's crazy how long these waits are getting, especially during prime time or events. I mean, I love Cyrodiil and all, but this is getting ridiculous. Sometimes I feel like I'm spending more time in queue than actually fighting!
I know some people have been saying we should have a priority system or something, but idk, feels kinda unfair to make people pay just to play faster. But we gotta do something, right? Maybe they could add more campaigns or increase the player cap somehow?
Anyone else feeling this pain? What do you guys think ZOS should do about these insane Cyrodiil queues? I'm all for ideas cuz this is seriously cramping my PvP style! Let's hear your thoughts, maybe if we make enough noise the devs will actually do something about it!
I know some peeps have been talking about giving ESO+ people priority. That seems like a good idea to me.

If you’re on PC NA, I suspect a large part of the increasing wait times is how frustrated people are with the state of Blackreach at the moment (esp. if you play EP). I know a bunch of people who used to call BR home have switched over to GH because of the deliberate low pop bonus abuse happening in BR. If you’re loyal to the Pact and want to participate in fair campaigns, GH is the place to be.

Funny, EP is the one that abuses low pop in GH

Haven’t been playing long enough in GH to see that myself, but the growing influx of EP from BR to GH should help prevent that, if it is indeed the case. Any time I’ve been playing (either during the day or during prime time EST) all factions have had more or less equal bars and no low pop bonuses.

Just_Attivi · July 13

Just to add my 2 gold

GH is popular because:
-Faction locks (many argue against this, but most people I talk to argue for it, and I wish all camps were faction locked, though maybe shorter camp durations would make this more appealing to those who hate it)

-Procs (some are cheese, but most are fun. why wouldnt i want to use the sets i grinded out in gross PVE?)

-population: yes, thats right, its most populated because its populated. PVP'ers dont want to go to a dead camp, nor fight an entire faction locked PvDoor guild in BR/Raven. GH always has action of some variety. Yes, if more migrated to BR/raven, those would be more popular, but who wants to go there and sit in a dead map for a few hours hoping something comes, I dont. I love being able to go to any keep/RSS and find action. and then many cycle back to point 1 and 2 for not playing BR/raven.

More camps wont fix this outside of mayhem. idk if it would work from a hardware/software standpoint, but i personally would love to see all the servers merge into one camp and let us have a big population (but that is just my personal taste, and there would be problems too.... like the already pop lock v no one zergs being even bigger, for one)

anyway, my 2 golds on the server-i mean drink coaster

GooGa592 · July 13

Desiato wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

Photosniper89 wrote: »

Only one camp is pop locked because of the proc rules. No one wants to play a trimmed down version of end game sets. Everyone knows GH is the only camp that matters.

False, because the no-proc campaign isn't the only alternative. There is only one poplocked campaign because the playerbase is too small to support more than one.

False, because the AvA population is not small, that's why Grey Host is pop locked so often. This morning Grey Host was pop locked at 09:00 EST. The AvA population is not small, it's that the pop caps are so low almost nobody can get into the zone now.

When ESO PVP was more popular, multiple servers were commonly poplocked throughout the day on weekends and weeknight prime times. The fact only one server is considered viable shows how ridiculously unpopular it is. If it had more players, then Blackreach would be considered viable for players who don't want to have to wait for gh.

It's an objectively small playerbase measured in the thousands per region/platform. To see evidence of this, earn a minimal amount of AP on an alt and see where that character ranks in a campaign.

On top of that, a significant number of players are pve players only in Cyro to get their alts to tier 1 rewards for geodes. They're so squishy and don't pvp well because they don't really care about it. They just want AP for transmute crystals.

A commercial game with so few players would need to end operations immediately.

I'm not an AvA hater. I believe it could be popular under different circumstances -- like if PVP gamers could download and play it without the PVE requirements. However, as it exists now, it has a tiny playerbase.

No, the current population and population caps in Cyrodiil ARE NOT indicators of how popular Cyrodiil PvP is. It's an indicator of how radically ZOS has limited the population with their cap and how many players have given up on ZOS and left the game due to unmet promises from ZOS to improve performance.

You are attributing the low pop cap to the players when it's a limitation set forth by ZOS in spite of there being far more demand than supply in Cyrodiil. It's clear you are not a PvP player, but that doesn't mean many of the rest of us aren't.

When the pop cap was 600/faction Cyrodiil still pop locked during prime time.

Punitio · July 13

Yea i agree, they decreased Cyrodiil pop systematically for the last 3-4 years and that really made me stop playing that much. Before i was like 8 hours every day in Cyrodiil, because there was always massive fights everywhere. Now, even in weekends, there is a very high queue and when u get in after wating 1 hour or more, is so hard to find people on the map that i eventually got bored and quit to do something else. I Was ESO+ subscriber for like 3 years and then i stopped paying for it just because of this.
I love this game and i really wish they increase the pop back to at least 400 each faction but im sure they will never do it so the hopes for the pvp in this game are dying out sadly.

Vulkunne · July 13

forum_propagandist wrote: »

Yo ESO fam, we gotta talk about these Cyrodiil queues, they're driving me nuts! Like, I get it, everyone wants a piece of that sweet PvP action, but come on! I spent half my gaming night just staring at that queue screen the other day, and by the time I got in, my guild was already done with their raid.
It's crazy how long these waits are getting, especially during prime time or events. I mean, I love Cyrodiil and all, but this is getting ridiculous. Sometimes I feel like I'm spending more time in queue than actually fighting!
I know some people have been saying we should have a priority system or something, but idk, feels kinda unfair to make people pay just to play faster. But we gotta do something, right? Maybe they could add more campaigns or increase the player cap somehow?
Anyone else feeling this pain? What do you guys think ZOS should do about these insane Cyrodiil queues? I'm all for ideas cuz this is seriously cramping my PvP style! Let's hear your thoughts, maybe if we make enough noise the devs will actually do something about it!
I know some peeps have been talking about giving ESO+ people priority. That seems like a good idea to me.

After 9 years sub with this game, there are a few things I can tell you and feel I should share so that time is not wasted.

It is highly unlikely that the Cyrodiil situation is going to change anytime soon, if ever. At one point I was a die-hard, committed PvPer and now I don't care about it. Why is that:

a) Ball groups - When and anytime they come around PvP comes to an end. They sit there for sometimes hours and kill everyone and few if any have the leverage or organization to take them down. These guys are literally and figuratively killing PvP in Cyrodiil. The fact ZOS has done, or cannot do, anything whatsoever to fix this is quite telling and I'll leave it at that.
b) T1's - Because of all the changes to the game, including toxicity that comes from getting transmuters from other PvE sources, this remains the single bestest way to solve the transmuter supply problem. Many have offered other solutions about this. Its agitating I know, but getting T1 in Cyrodiil and moving on works but it works for the wrong reason.
c) Throwing Money into the Well - Additionally, others mentioned on here about ways to get ZOS to fix things and make the changes we want by paying more for Crowns or what have you. It won't, save your money. The game is just not about what we originally liked or had hoped for regarding it.

With that said, I've been a sub for 9 years and have purchased a considerable number of Crowns in that time but that hasn't gained me any favors. Doesn't make me special but doing all this didn't matter for me, and it won't matter for you either. I would say probably most of what is posted on here probably isn't ignored but def canceled if it's not exactly what they are looking for. I'm not saying by any means that people like me, and there are many, are in any way better than anyone else but being such long-time contributors we are certainly not less. But clearly our arguments aren't in scope for them and so there's just no point shelling out money and not having any representation in why it's not spent on fixing the more noticeable problems or spent towards the features we actually like (that is why we're spending the money, after all

).

Nothing seems to change; it would be crazy to keep trying. And I'll just leave it at that.

Desiato · July 13

GooGa592 wrote: »

No, the current population and population caps in Cyrodiil ARE NOT indicators of how popular Cyrodiil PvP is. It's an indicator of how radically ZOS has limited the population with their cap and how many players have given up on ZOS and left the game due to unmet promises from ZOS to improve performance.

You are attributing the low pop cap to the players when it's a limitation set forth by ZOS in spite of there being far more demand than supply in Cyrodiil. It's clear you are not a PvP player, but that doesn't mean many of the rest of us aren't.

When the pop cap was 600/faction Cyrodiil still pop locked during prime time.

The per-faction population hasn't been 600 since the very early days. By late 2015/early 2016 it was estimated by many who made an effort to count to be as low as 150 per faction.

Regardless of why players have left or choose not to play, the fact remains that AvA is very unpopular as determined by the number of players who actually play it. It's indisputable. It has a fringe audience at the moment.

Aurielle · July 13

Just_Attivi wrote: »

Just to add my 2 gold

GH is popular because:
-Faction locks (many argue against this, but most people I talk to argue for it, and I wish all camps were faction locked, though maybe shorter camp durations would make this more appealing to those who hate it)

-Procs (some are cheese, but most are fun. why wouldnt i want to use the sets i grinded out in gross PVE?)

-population: yes, thats right, its most populated because its populated. PVP'ers dont want to go to a dead camp, nor fight an entire faction locked PvDoor guild in BR/Raven. GH always has action of some variety. Yes, if more migrated to BR/raven, those would be more popular, but who wants to go there and sit in a dead map for a few hours hoping something comes, I dont. I love being able to go to any keep/RSS and find action. and then many cycle back to point 1 and 2 for not playing BR/raven.

More camps wont fix this outside of mayhem. idk if it would work from a hardware/software standpoint, but i personally would love to see all the servers merge into one camp and let us have a big population (but that is just my personal taste, and there would be problems too.... like the already pop lock v no one zergs being even bigger, for one)

anyway, my 2 golds on the server-i mean drink coaster

The fact that GH is faction locked is one of the main reasons why I’ve moved there from BR. I’d probably go back to BR more often if faction locks were in place. A lot of the issues we see in BR would be resolved if it wasn’t possible to flip between alliances so easily. Even if the lock out period was only for a week, it would improve things.

SaffronCitrusflower · July 13

Desiato wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

No, the current population and population caps in Cyrodiil ARE NOT indicators of how popular Cyrodiil PvP is. It's an indicator of how radically ZOS has limited the population with their cap and how many players have given up on ZOS and left the game due to unmet promises from ZOS to improve performance.

You are attributing the low pop cap to the players when it's a limitation set forth by ZOS in spite of there being far more demand than supply in Cyrodiil. It's clear you are not a PvP player, but that doesn't mean many of the rest of us aren't.

When the pop cap was 600/faction Cyrodiil still pop locked during prime time.

The per-faction population hasn't been 600 since the very early days. By late 2015/early 2016 it was estimated by many who made an effort to count to be as low as 150 per faction.

Regardless of why players have left or choose not to play, the fact remains that AvA is very unpopular as determined by the number of players who actually play it. It's indisputable. It has a fringe audience at the moment.

The limiting factor on the number of players in Cyrodiil is ZOS' super low population cap, not a low demand by the player base. You have it exactly backwards.

In early 2016 the pop cap in Cyrodiil was at least 400/faction. Nobody who played in Cyrodiil regularly in 2016 thought the pop cap was 150 or less. I know because I've been a PvP main since early 2015. I had a PvP guild die due to population caps and unresolved performance issues....then the "Waa waa waaaaa" video hit and convinced us all ZOS was never going to fix anything Cyrodiil related. That was the last straw for most of the PvP mains left still playing.

The only fact here is that it's the pop cap limiting the Cyrodiil population more than any other factor. Can't get into the zone, can't play in the zone. If the pop cap reflected demand the cap would be closer to the original cap, not what it is today.

moderatelyfatman · July 14

Cyrodiil has become a way to make time until the next MMO with epic battles comes along and then I'm gone.
It's a pity because it didn't have to be this way.

Joy_Division · July 14

Desiato wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

No, the current population and population caps in Cyrodiil ARE NOT indicators of how popular Cyrodiil PvP is. It's an indicator of how radically ZOS has limited the population with their cap and how many players have given up on ZOS and left the game due to unmet promises from ZOS to improve performance.

You are attributing the low pop cap to the players when it's a limitation set forth by ZOS in spite of there being far more demand than supply in Cyrodiil. It's clear you are not a PvP player, but that doesn't mean many of the rest of us aren't.

When the pop cap was 600/faction Cyrodiil still pop locked during prime time.

The per-faction population hasn't been 600 since the very early days. By late 2015/early 2016 it was estimated by many who made an effort to count to be as low as 150 per faction.

Regardless of why players have left or choose not to play, the fact remains that AvA is very unpopular as determined by the number of players who actually play it. It's indisputable. It has a fringe audience at the moment.

The other posters are right. Only diehards are going to wait in a 80+ que which ZOS has. Only diehards are going to accept an empty zone. Only diehards are going to accept literally no PvP development for 5 years, ZOS drove away the population.

Desiato · July 14

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

In early 2016 the pop cap in Cyrodiil was at least 400/faction. Nobody who played in Cyrodiil regularly in 2016 thought the pop cap was 150 or less. I know because I've been a PvP main since early 2015.

False. Many players thought that it was as low as 150:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/146260/cyrodiil-population-limit
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/289905/how-many-player-are-allowed-in-a-campaign

Those are contemporaneous opinion of players at the time, some of them very credible "pvp mains" like you and I were then.

I'm not saying those anecdotes are factual. We don't have facts. I remember efforts by at least two credible groups to tally the number of players in Cyrodiil from that period and they came up with what I recall to be around 150. But of course, no one has a perfect memory about anything that happened 7-10 years ago.

The point is that it hasn't been 600 for a VERY long time.

The only fact here is that it's the pop cap limiting the Cyrodiil population more than any other factor.

That's not a fact, it's an opinion.

Joy_Division wrote: »

The other posters are right. Only diehards are going to wait in a 80+ que which ZOS has. Only diehards are going to accept an empty zone. Only diehards are going to accept literally no PvP development for 5 years, ZOS drove away the population.

There's no reason why only a "diehard" would wait in queue. It doesn't take effort to sit afk while one does something else within range of their pc or console. It only restricts the ability of the most casual and time constrained players to access a particular campaign.

We see during PVP events that other campaigns easily fill up when there are more players interested in playing in Cyrodiil.

Furthermore, when Cyrodiil was much more popular between 2014 and 2017 main server queues were normal prime time and weekends.

Poplocking isn't even an issue the vast majority of the time. Today, Sunday afternoon @ 2:40 PM EDT here is Grey Host:

Yes, Zenimax is CERTAINLY responsible for the state of Cyrodiil, but that doesn't mean they're maliciously limiting its pop cap for no apparent reason. The only logical reason they would reduce the pop cap is performance and stability. The cost difference between a 300 player game server and a 600 player game server would be negligible to them.

We're all entitled to our opinions, but I disagree the lower pop cap is the single greatest reason Cyro died. It certainly isn't limiting Cyro at this very moment. The main reasons, to me, were performance, stability and bugs. Next would be the PVE barrier of entry, followed by years of terrible gameplay changes.

I believe that if PVP gamers who don't play ESO could download it and play Cyrodiil without touching ESO, it could be a very popular game even with its current problems.

Personally, the main reasons I'm not playing right now are: AWFUL gameplay resulting in constant stalemates against near peers both solo and in groups in addition to many other problems like heal bots and troll tanks, OP PVE sets, the baffling Sorc buff a couple of updates ago and the stuck in combat bug.

CrashTest · July 14

forum_propagandist wrote: »

I know some peeps have been talking about giving ESO+ people priority. That seems like a good idea to me.

No, the game is already pay to play. Also, the queue isn't what's killing Cyro. It's a host of other issues with the main being performance.

JustLovely · July 14

Desiato wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

In early 2016 the pop cap in Cyrodiil was at least 400/faction. Nobody who played in Cyrodiil regularly in 2016 thought the pop cap was 150 or less. I know because I've been a PvP main since early 2015.

False. Many players thought that it was as low as 150:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/146260/cyrodiil-population-limit
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/289905/how-many-player-are-allowed-in-a-campaign

Those are contemporaneous opinion of players at the time, some of them very credible "pvp mains" like you and I were then.

I'm not saying those anecdotes are factual. We don't have facts. I remember efforts by at least two credible groups to tally the number of players in Cyrodiil from that period and they came up with what I recall to be around 150. But of course, no one has a perfect memory about anything that happened 7-10 years ago.

The point is that it hasn't been 600 for a VERY long time.

The only fact here is that it's the pop cap limiting the Cyrodiil population more than any other factor.

That's not a fact, it's an opinion.

Joy_Division wrote: »

The other posters are right. Only diehards are going to wait in a 80+ que which ZOS has. Only diehards are going to accept an empty zone. Only diehards are going to accept literally no PvP development for 5 years, ZOS drove away the population.

There's no reason why only a "diehard" would wait in queue. It doesn't take effort to sit afk while one does something else within range of their pc or console. It only restricts the ability of the most casual and time constrained players to access a particular campaign.

We see during PVP events that other campaigns easily fill up when there are more players interested in playing in Cyrodiil.

Furthermore, when Cyrodiil was much more popular between 2014 and 2017 main server queues were normal prime time and weekends.

Poplocking isn't even an issue the vast majority of the time. Today, Sunday afternoon @ 2:40 PM EDT here is Grey Host:

Yes, Zenimax is CERTAINLY responsible for the state of Cyrodiil, but that doesn't mean they're maliciously limiting its pop cap for no apparent reason. The only logical reason they would reduce the pop cap is performance and stability. The cost difference between a 300 player game server and a 600 player game server would be negligible to them.

We're all entitled to our opinions, but I disagree the lower pop cap is the single greatest reason Cyro died. It certainly isn't limiting Cyro at this very moment. The main reasons, to me, were performance, stability and bugs. Next would be the PVE barrier of entry, followed by years of terrible gameplay changes.

I believe that if PVP gamers who don't play ESO could download it and play Cyrodiil without touching ESO, it could be a very popular game even with its current problems.

Personally, the main reasons I'm not playing right now are: AWFUL gameplay resulting in constant stalemates against near peers both solo and in groups in addition to many other problems like heal bots and troll tanks, OP PVE sets, the baffling Sorc buff a couple of updates ago and the stuck in combat bug.

Cyrodiil hasn't "died", as you put it.

But Cyrodiil is being strangled to death by the crazy low population caps.

And there are only a few people, total, in both the links you provided that are claiming the pop cap was as low as 150 in 2016 or before. You said there were many, not a few.

Desiato · July 14

JustLovely wrote: »

And there are only a few people, total, in both the links you provided that are claiming the pop cap was as low as 150 in 2016 or before. You said there were many, not a few.

At the time, many said it. I pulled those threads out of a quick google search. The opinions in them are representative of the range of views the greater playerbase had at the time. I did not try to find every single example. That's not the point though.

Cyrodiil is a dead game by my standards and compared to what it was in its heyday. No commercial game could survive with as few players as Cyrodiil has. It is delusional to think otherwise.