Why is there no "Disagree" Option for posts?

AzuraFan · July 11

Having a "disagree" or downvote has been tried before on other platforms and found not to work. It tends to get abused. If someone disagrees with a post, it's better if they respond and explain their POV.

Wereswan · July 11

Vulsahdaal wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Now I feel bad for the times I clicked on "insightful" because I really thought the posts were insightful.

Don't feel bad at all. I dunno why Vulsahdaal made that claim. But it's not true.

There used to be a disagree button, it was removed.

I see you have the same LOL badge I have, so Im a bit surprised you dont remember why the button was removed. Afterwards there was some debate here whether the new button should be 'insightful' or 'awesome'. Insightful had the majority.

Since then, I have never given anyone an 'insightful'.

But to those who say they feel bad for doing so, please dont. All this took place IIRC about 9 years ago. I think the majority of posters here probably werent even around then, so there is no way of knowing this. It would be expected for you to take the word 'insightful' as its standard definition.

And for those who were here then, as others have mentioned here, its a matter of context.

Even in my own posts, I can tell if the 'insightfuls' I get are disagrees or true 'insightfuls'.

But honestly, it doesnt really matter. Theres nothing to be gained or lost here, so again please dont feel bad about it. I doubt that many here even care about such things.

Thank you for the context; it seemed prone to abuse even before knowing this.

Casdha · July 11

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

I can agree with a post without having to clutter up the thread by saying so, so why can I not disagree with a post by doing the same?

Quite often posts are put up on the forum, asking for this or for that. If I disagree with what is being asked for, then it would be much simpler for me, and others, to just click a disagree button, rather than have to clutter the thread with yet another post that simply says "I disagree" but adds nothing else to the discussion.

Also the argument that it is in some way "toxic" to disagree with someone is, well, quite frankly a sad indictment of the mind who actually believes that. Indeed, one could say that even saying that "if you disagree with me you are being toxic" is itself toxic.

Can someone give me an example of how a disagree button could be used in a toxic manner?

Are we not all adults, capable of being civil while we disagree with each other?

DenverRalphy wrote: »

There used to be a disagree option. But the playerbase had proven yet again, that as a whole they were not mature enough to use it responsibly. It was used more for trolling than anything else. The also used to be a LOL option too (and something else, can't remember).

So Zos did what any parent would do when their children become petulant and won't play nice. They took the toys away.

Well then that's... that's quite sad really isn't it.

I think the difference in button vs. no button is that you can still disagree with someone but you have to post it, which identifies you for doing so, and has the opportunity for you to leave a reason. The button was anonymous.

But someone can anonymously agree with a post that disagrees with the OP. Therefore disagreeing with the OP but doing so anonymously?

True, but agreeing with a stated disagreement still lets the person know what the disagreement is.

Edit: provided they agreed to a post that gave a reason and not just a blank "I disagree" statement.

Edit2: crap I may have just started something LoL

Kappachi · July 11

People can't handle being given downvotes on any site anymore, it's removeed because people would get their feelings hurt most likely, that's also why the dislike count is gone on YouTube, why dislikes don't show on Steam reviews and so on, nobody can take being harshly criticized in 2024.

JemadarofCaerSalis · July 12

Kappachi wrote: »

People can't handle being given downvotes on any site anymore, it's removeed because people would get their feelings hurt most likely, that's also why the dislike count is gone on YouTube, why dislikes don't show on Steam reviews and so on, nobody can take being harshly criticized in 2024.

One of the biggest issues is, as other people have pointed out, is that a blanket 'disagree' does nothing.

What do people disagree with? Content, part of the content, the fact that you misspelled some words? Something deeper? Do they disagree just because it is you posting? (which is something that happens on reddit with downvotes. People who disagree with a poster will go and downvote *all* their other posts, even ones that have nothing to do with the original post they disagreed with)

Also, it often isn't 'harshly criticized' but rather 'harshly insulted' because people don't bother to even give a modicum of criticism. They just start insulting anyone who doesn't agree with their view point.

I wasn't here when there was a disagree button, but I think that most sites are removing them because too many people abuse them, as said above and by other posters. I can agree that many people can't handle criticism, but on the other hand, there are way too many people who don't even bother giving criticism, but rather just start insulting anything they don't like.

I feel a lot of people need to learn/realize that they don't have to contribute to every single discussion, especially if their only contribution would be to press a button. For the record, I also feel this way about agree buttons. They don't add anything to discussions, and to me, forums are places for discussions.

vsrs_au · July 12

No, agree buttons are useful. If I see a forum post with a large agree count, then I know it's presenting a popular point of view, and that's useful to know. If I want a forum post to be taken more seriously, then I'll use the agree button on it.

Hapexamendios · July 12

I agree to disagree to a certain degree.

TaSheen · July 12

Hapexamendios wrote: »

I agree to disagree to a certain degree.

*snerk*

SteveCampsOut · July 12

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

It could be argued that there are three options that can be assigned to agreeing with a poster's comment, "insightful", "agree" and "awesome" but there is no option for a simple "disagree".

Is it possible to add one?

People already vocalize their toxic disagreement without having a fast click option. Make the toxic posters work for their toxics. Me, If I disagree these days, I just don't comment. Problem solved.

Rowjoh · July 12

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

Given some of the sarcastic responses to my question of "Why is there no "disagree" option for posts". I guess my question has been answered.

Nothing else to say.

well, there is a charming naïveté to the question, but it did spark a 'debate' about the use of the 'insightful' option

Anifaas · July 12

JonesFPS wrote: »

Well the world is a toxic place.
i would also want a disagree button. Easier then writing a message.

And this is precisely why the ESO forums are substantially less toxic that the rest of the social media world. I enjoy following full conversations on the ESO forums similar to how it is done in real life. This toxic world you speak of is not ubiquitous. Often you get what you give. Giving a 'hate' vote instead of contributing meaningful conversation is how you contribute to the toxicity. Immersing yourself in environments like that is how you make it even worse for yourself.

Silaf · July 12

LunaFlora wrote: »

i am glad there is not a disagree reaction

I disagree

shadyjane62 · July 12

Silaf wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

i am glad there is not a disagree reaction

I disagree

Me too!!

LaintalAy · July 12

shadyjane62 wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

i am glad there is not a disagree reaction

I disagree

Me too!!

Really? Why?

Dax_Draconis · July 12

I disagree with having a disagree button.

shadyjane62 · July 13

LaintalAy wrote: »

shadyjane62 wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

i am glad there is not a disagree reaction

I disagree

Me too!!

Really? Why?

I think there should be a disagree button.

TaSheen · July 13

shadyjane62 wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

shadyjane62 wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

i am glad there is not a disagree reaction

I disagree

Me too!!

Really? Why?

I think there should be a disagree button.

I've been places that had disagree buttons. Bad idea; and those places eventually removed the button. For good and sufficient reasons.

Bradyfjord · July 13

I've never cared one way or the other on the issue of dislikes. I think the ship has sailed on this long ago.

driosketch · July 13

Elsonso wrote: »

Vulsahdaal wrote: »

Its still there, but now its called 'Insightful'. After 'disagree' was removed, it changed to 'LOL'

So they removed LOL, and it changed to Insightful.

So far, Insightful hasnt been removed yet. But if it was, I figure it will change to Awesome.

Some people decided that "Insightful" replaced "LOL" and some people decided that "Awesome" replaced "LOL". No one can enforce the rule either way. In the end, I am sure that people still try to do this, but it has become so diluted this is just 'head-canon' for the person using it. Today, they mean what the words mean and any ulterior meaning is usually lost immediately after the person clicks it.

As I recall, and I am not sure where I heard this, but I am fairly sure it came from someone at ZOS... "Agree" is there to help cut down on the number of two word replies: "I agree". The problem with "Disagree" was that people clicked it but didn't add anything to the conversation, which makes it pointless.

Creative people can troll with it by following someone around and clicking "Disagree" on everything they post. This would show up in the forum profile and be a significant number, if it was done enough. Maybe that is why it was removed.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That reminds me, the game was still in Beta when we last had a disagree button. That was the issue for ZOS, they wanted the feedback. It also wasn't just disagreeing without comment, but you would get disagreement brigading to shut down/bully posts a group didn't like. I think that's what happened with lol, too.

Also, there is no consensus on a replacement reaction for disagree/lol. Reading through the first page of the post, I see one person suggest Insightful, and multiple replies disputing it or being unaware, which makes it a poor substitute.

DreamyLu · July 13

I like when it's simple. For me, just "Agree" would be enough, allowing - if we have nothing to add - to support it by a simple click. Otherwise, we can reply to explain (in a constructive manner).

LaintalAy · July 13

edited

ZOS_Hadeostry · July 13

Greetings,

After removing some unnecessary back and forth from this thread, we would like everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand, civil, and constructive.

If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here

Androrix · July 13

I want a disagree button...but only for this thread. Otherwise I am good with none.

JiubLeRepenti · July 13

Anifaas wrote: »

JonesFPS wrote: »

Well the world is a toxic place.
i would also want a disagree button. Easier then writing a message.

And this is precisely why the ESO forums are substantially less toxic that the rest of the social media world. I enjoy following full conversations on the ESO forums similar to how it is done in real life. This toxic world you speak of is not ubiquitous. Often you get what you give. Giving a 'hate' vote instead of contributing meaningful conversation is how you contribute to the toxicity. Immersing yourself in environments like that is how you make it even worse for yourself.

It's quite funny, tbh, how a "disagree vote" seems to be automatically correlated with "hate vote" by some ppl.

You can disagree with somebody, but stay in a constructive and positive dialogue. For instance if I say or expose something that doesn't make any sense nor have any interest, I'd be grateful to the community to make it clear to me.

I also think some people don't accept contradiction, opposition, nor challenge, and automatically see it as provocation, disrespect, toxicity, or even aggressiveness.

I know the sweetspot between freedom of speech and moderation isn't easy to reach... But having three "positive" vote options for a post and nothing else is... Well... Not very accurate imo.

"Hey ! Do you lile my new outfit ?"
"Yes" ; "Yes" ; "Yes"

Syldras · July 13

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

It's quite funny, tbh, how a "disagree vote" seems to be automatically correlated with "hate vote" by some ppl.
You can disagree with somebody, but stay in a constructive and positive dialogue. For instance if I say or expose something that doesn't make any sense nor have any interest, I'd be grateful to the community to make it clear to me.
I also think some people don't accept contradiction, opposition, nor challenge, and automatically see it as provocation, disrespect, toxicity, or even aggressiveness.

Not meant to offend anyone, but I too see that there are increasing societal tendencies to be "agreeable" and to keep a happy façade at least, no matter how people truly think. It's certainly also a question of different cultures, cultural expectations and also personal mindsets whether one supports this or, the opposite, perceives this as negative, for example as deceptive, or just as limiting and unsatisfying because it makes a honest discussion impossible. I for one enjoy discussions if they're fact-based and civil, and without all kinds of different, of course also opposing, views, these would be boring. But that also means that I want to know why people have their opinion. A simple "agree" or "disagree" without any context has no "value" for me, it's disinteresting, as I don't get any new understandings from it.

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

I know the sweetspot between freedom of speech and moderation isn't easy to reach... But having three "positive" vote options for a post and nothing else is... Well... Not very accurate imo.
"Hey ! Do you lile my new outfit ?"

"Yes" ; "Yes" ; "Yes"

You could write "No" and explain why (not your personal taste, dislike the color, dislike the cut, colors looks disharmonic, think it doesn't fit the wearer's body shape, etc - that helps the person more than just a "no").

DenverRalphy · July 13

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

Anifaas wrote: »

JonesFPS wrote: »

Well the world is a toxic place.
i would also want a disagree button. Easier then writing a message.

And this is precisely why the ESO forums are substantially less toxic that the rest of the social media world. I enjoy following full conversations on the ESO forums similar to how it is done in real life. This toxic world you speak of is not ubiquitous. Often you get what you give. Giving a 'hate' vote instead of contributing meaningful conversation is how you contribute to the toxicity. Immersing yourself in environments like that is how you make it even worse for yourself.

It's quite funny, tbh, how a "disagree vote" seems to be automatically correlated with "hate vote" by some ppl.

You can disagree with somebody, but stay in a constructive and positive dialogue. For instance if I say or expose something that doesn't make any sense nor have any interest, I'd be grateful to the community to make it clear to me.

I also think some people don't accept contradiction, opposition, nor challenge, and automatically see it as provocation, disrespect, toxicity, or even aggressiveness.

I know the sweetspot between freedom of speech and moderation isn't easy to reach... But having three "positive" vote options for a post and nothing else is... Well... Not very accurate imo.
"Hey ! Do you lile my new outfit ?"

"Yes" ; "Yes" ; "Yes"

Individually, humans can identify with what you are saying. However; while people as individuals can be intelligent and logical, people as a population are often quite irrational and often quite stupid. It's nothing new, and it's not exclusive to online gaming.

Vulkunne · July 13

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

It could be argued that there are three options that can be assigned to agreeing with a poster's comment, "insightful", "agree" and "awesome" but there is no option for a simple "disagree".

Is it possible to add one?

While not entirely a bad idea, the problem with this is your intention and my intention regarding this feature gets lost on how others might abuse it. For example, what exactly are they disagreeing with? Just simply smashing a disagree button could mean so many different things, generally negative.

No, I think it be would a great deal more helpful that if someone happens to disagree, then let them come forward saying it and then let us know what part they don't like. Otherwise, this can end up being a thing where a post gets 'canceled' in other words everyone disagrees but never acknowledges its substance and thus, the ideas or concepts presented by the post are never given the courtesy of being put to any real test.

It's interesting in this age of ideas and knowledge how easily we dismiss the things that we don't want to hear. And this is already happening. No true freedom, no real wealth without maturity and accountability first. If you're not mature to respect the poster and actually explain in a rational way, why they are wrong then you have no real reason to disagree to begin with.

Casdha · July 13

Silaf wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

i am glad there is not a disagree reaction

I disagree

Dang it, now I want my LoL button back

master_vanargand · July 14

MMO players are getting older, so a "Nurse call" button should be added.

Rohamad_Ali · July 14

master_vanargand wrote: »

MMO players are getting older, so a "Nurse call" button should be added.