U43… Over-Hype & Under Deliver

Pelanora · July 4

Lol what even am I looking at? Someone bedding H.Mora?

James-Wayne · July 4

I just wanted a Furniture Craft Bag or something I can store and organise the hundreds of items that I cannot deconstruct but nope, I'm hanging on to 11 characters I use just for storage.

Really underwhelming housing update, ZOS need to better manage expectation in future like maybe tell us months in advance what the roadmap plan is for the year.

EDIT: I will add that I like the IA updates so it will give me something to do but overall Update 43 seems really small compared to other updates and I do understand this one is free.

GuuMoonRyoung · July 4

I will only be happy when they add story mode for dungeons and maybe trials. Would be nice to have new game+ system where we can replay the main and zone stories with a higher difficulty mode, but that is just a fancy dream for now.

LunaFlora · July 4

the rating stuff is just that you can Favourite and recommend a home.
no comments or 5 star reviews

Jaraal · July 4

Pelanora wrote: »

"Roundhouse Games – The team at Roundhouse Games will be joining ZeniMax Online Studios (ZOS). Roundhouse has played a key role in many of our recent game launches and bringing them into ZOS to work on The Elder Scrolls Online will mean we can do even more to grow the world that millions of players call home.
With this consolidation of our Bethesda studio teams.....we can invest more deeply in our portfolio of games and new IP..."

They're getting more people, not less.

https://variety.com/2024/digital/news/xbox-closes-four-bethesda-studios-tango-gameworks-1235994961/

"Consolidation" doesn't necessarily mean more people. It means the best are kept, and the newly redundant lowest performers are released.

The Zenimax studio was just as big as they wanted it to be before any other studios were closed. They took applications and hired to fill their needs, just like any other corporation. Payroll is the biggest expense in any company, and the idea that they will just welcome a bunch of newly unemployed studio devs and pay them to sit at desks while the same amount of work is available as before is unrealistic. Corporations don't take in new job seekers just because they want to be nice. Every dollar paid has to have a purpose, and the margin for waste is extremely small.

Pelanora · July 4

Jaraal wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

"Roundhouse Games – The team at Roundhouse Games will be joining ZeniMax Online Studios (ZOS). Roundhouse has played a key role in many of our recent game launches and bringing them into ZOS to work on The Elder Scrolls Online will mean we can do even more to grow the world that millions of players call home.
With this consolidation of our Bethesda studio teams.....we can invest more deeply in our portfolio of games and new IP..."

They're getting more people, not less.

https://variety.com/2024/digital/news/xbox-closes-four-bethesda-studios-tango-gameworks-1235994961/

"Consolidation" doesn't necessarily mean more people. It means the best are kept, and the newly redundant lowest performers are released.

The Zenimax studio was just as big as they wanted it to be before any other studios were closed. They took applications and hired to fill their needs, just like any other corporation. Payroll is the biggest expense in any company, and the idea that they will just welcome a bunch of newly unemployed studio devs and pay them to sit at desks while the same amount of work is available as before is unrealistic. Corporations don't take in new job seekers just because they want to be nice. Every dollar paid has to have a purpose, and the margin for waste is extremely small.

Thanks for explaining corporate employment. You missed the bit where investment means an expectation of higher returns.

Jaraal · July 4

Pelanora wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

"Roundhouse Games – The team at Roundhouse Games will be joining ZeniMax Online Studios (ZOS). Roundhouse has played a key role in many of our recent game launches and bringing them into ZOS to work on The Elder Scrolls Online will mean we can do even more to grow the world that millions of players call home.
With this consolidation of our Bethesda studio teams.....we can invest more deeply in our portfolio of games and new IP..."

They're getting more people, not less.

https://variety.com/2024/digital/news/xbox-closes-four-bethesda-studios-tango-gameworks-1235994961/

"Consolidation" doesn't necessarily mean more people. It means the best are kept, and the newly redundant lowest performers are released.

The Zenimax studio was just as big as they wanted it to be before any other studios were closed. They took applications and hired to fill their needs, just like any other corporation. Payroll is the biggest expense in any company, and the idea that they will just welcome a bunch of newly unemployed studio devs and pay them to sit at desks while the same amount of work is available as before is unrealistic. Corporations don't take in new job seekers just because they want to be nice. Every dollar paid has to have a purpose, and the margin for waste is extremely small.

Thanks for explaining corporate employment.

It needs to be done, if people actually think ZOS is just going to welcome (and pay) hundreds of devs from shuttered companies to work on ESO and the new AAA title.

Pelanora · July 4

Jaraal wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

"Roundhouse Games – The team at Roundhouse Games will be joining ZeniMax Online Studios (ZOS). Roundhouse has played a key role in many of our recent game launches and bringing them into ZOS to work on The Elder Scrolls Online will mean we can do even more to grow the world that millions of players call home.
With this consolidation of our Bethesda studio teams.....we can invest more deeply in our portfolio of games and new IP..."

They're getting more people, not less.

https://variety.com/2024/digital/news/xbox-closes-four-bethesda-studios-tango-gameworks-1235994961/

"Consolidation" doesn't necessarily mean more people. It means the best are kept, and the newly redundant lowest performers are released.

The Zenimax studio was just as big as they wanted it to be before any other studios were closed. They took applications and hired to fill their needs, just like any other corporation. Payroll is the biggest expense in any company, and the idea that they will just welcome a bunch of newly unemployed studio devs and pay them to sit at desks while the same amount of work is available as before is unrealistic. Corporations don't take in new job seekers just because they want to be nice. Every dollar paid has to have a purpose, and the margin for waste is extremely small.

Thanks for explaining corporate employment.

It needs to be done, if people actually think ZOS is just going to welcome (and pay) hundreds of devs from shuttered companies to work on ESO and the new AAA title.

Who actually thinks that? Exactly?

Jaraal · July 4

Pelanora wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

"Roundhouse Games – The team at Roundhouse Games will be joining ZeniMax Online Studios (ZOS). Roundhouse has played a key role in many of our recent game launches and bringing them into ZOS to work on The Elder Scrolls Online will mean we can do even more to grow the world that millions of players call home.
With this consolidation of our Bethesda studio teams.....we can invest more deeply in our portfolio of games and new IP..."

They're getting more people, not less.

https://variety.com/2024/digital/news/xbox-closes-four-bethesda-studios-tango-gameworks-1235994961/

"Consolidation" doesn't necessarily mean more people. It means the best are kept, and the newly redundant lowest performers are released.

The Zenimax studio was just as big as they wanted it to be before any other studios were closed. They took applications and hired to fill their needs, just like any other corporation. Payroll is the biggest expense in any company, and the idea that they will just welcome a bunch of newly unemployed studio devs and pay them to sit at desks while the same amount of work is available as before is unrealistic. Corporations don't take in new job seekers just because they want to be nice. Every dollar paid has to have a purpose, and the margin for waste is extremely small.

Thanks for explaining corporate employment.

It needs to be done, if people actually think ZOS is just going to welcome (and pay) hundreds of devs from shuttered companies to work on ESO and the new AAA title.

Who actually thinks that? Exactly?

Someone stated, "They're getting more people. Not less." Which means someone thinks that ZOS will be paying more money to do the same jobs.

Pelanora · July 4

Jaraal wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

"Roundhouse Games – The team at Roundhouse Games will be joining ZeniMax Online Studios (ZOS). Roundhouse has played a key role in many of our recent game launches and bringing them into ZOS to work on The Elder Scrolls Online will mean we can do even more to grow the world that millions of players call home.
With this consolidation of our Bethesda studio teams.....we can invest more deeply in our portfolio of games and new IP..."

They're getting more people, not less.

https://variety.com/2024/digital/news/xbox-closes-four-bethesda-studios-tango-gameworks-1235994961/

"Consolidation" doesn't necessarily mean more people. It means the best are kept, and the newly redundant lowest performers are released.

The Zenimax studio was just as big as they wanted it to be before any other studios were closed. They took applications and hired to fill their needs, just like any other corporation. Payroll is the biggest expense in any company, and the idea that they will just welcome a bunch of newly unemployed studio devs and pay them to sit at desks while the same amount of work is available as before is unrealistic. Corporations don't take in new job seekers just because they want to be nice. Every dollar paid has to have a purpose, and the margin for waste is extremely small.

Thanks for explaining corporate employment.

It needs to be done, if people actually think ZOS is just going to welcome (and pay) hundreds of devs from shuttered companies to work on ESO and the new AAA title.

Who actually thinks that? Exactly?

Someone stated, "They're getting more people. Not less." Which means someone thinks that ZOS will be paying more money to do the same jobs.

No it means there is an investment contingent on increased returns, which if it doesn't manifest, will get reversed, and it means there's capacity in the budgets, to carry that in the short term.

Jaraal · July 4

Pelanora wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

"Roundhouse Games – The team at Roundhouse Games will be joining ZeniMax Online Studios (ZOS). Roundhouse has played a key role in many of our recent game launches and bringing them into ZOS to work on The Elder Scrolls Online will mean we can do even more to grow the world that millions of players call home.
With this consolidation of our Bethesda studio teams.....we can invest more deeply in our portfolio of games and new IP..."

They're getting more people, not less.

https://variety.com/2024/digital/news/xbox-closes-four-bethesda-studios-tango-gameworks-1235994961/

"Consolidation" doesn't necessarily mean more people. It means the best are kept, and the newly redundant lowest performers are released.

The Zenimax studio was just as big as they wanted it to be before any other studios were closed. They took applications and hired to fill their needs, just like any other corporation. Payroll is the biggest expense in any company, and the idea that they will just welcome a bunch of newly unemployed studio devs and pay them to sit at desks while the same amount of work is available as before is unrealistic. Corporations don't take in new job seekers just because they want to be nice. Every dollar paid has to have a purpose, and the margin for waste is extremely small.

Thanks for explaining corporate employment.

It needs to be done, if people actually think ZOS is just going to welcome (and pay) hundreds of devs from shuttered companies to work on ESO and the new AAA title.

Who actually thinks that? Exactly?

Someone stated, "They're getting more people. Not less." Which means someone thinks that ZOS will be paying more money to do the same jobs.

No it means there is an investment contingent on increased returns, which if it doesn't manifest, will get reversed, and it means there's capacity in the budgets, to carry that in the short term.

Well, their website hasn't changed regarding their games. It's Elder Scrolls Online, and "a brand-new AAA IP." So what will all these devs from the shuttered companies be working on? Will they be cutting hours to 20-30 hours per week to make room for all the new people? Isn't it more logical to think that the cream of the crop will be replacing the less productive redundant positions? Wouldn't that "mean they can do even more to grow the world that millions of players call home?" By being more productive and creative?

https://www.zenimaxonline.com/games

Syldras · July 4

Desiato wrote: »

Looks like an awesome massage table. More enjoyable than yesterday's stream

Magenpie · July 4

Without wishing to be unkind, I did feel I was watching a departmental away day empowerment meeting. I'm really pleased they all love each other and admire each others work, but all that was filler to pad out a fairly thin update announcement. I really didn't need to be there.

As to the content itself, I think framing it as a 'housing update' was disingenous at best - I'm inclined to believe it was an engagement hook so ppl would join the channel for numbers - and as most people are pointing out, the update completely ignores the housing QoL most players desperately want/need. That said, I'm pleased for console players who can't take advantage of the addon this new feature is clearly based on.

I'm not exactly shocked though.

Pelanora · July 4

Jaraal wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

"Roundhouse Games – The team at Roundhouse Games will be joining ZeniMax Online Studios (ZOS). Roundhouse has played a key role in many of our recent game launches and bringing them into ZOS to work on The Elder Scrolls Online will mean we can do even more to grow the world that millions of players call home.
With this consolidation of our Bethesda studio teams.....we can invest more deeply in our portfolio of games and new IP..."

They're getting more people, not less.

https://variety.com/2024/digital/news/xbox-closes-four-bethesda-studios-tango-gameworks-1235994961/

"Consolidation" doesn't necessarily mean more people. It means the best are kept, and the newly redundant lowest performers are released.

The Zenimax studio was just as big as they wanted it to be before any other studios were closed. They took applications and hired to fill their needs, just like any other corporation. Payroll is the biggest expense in any company, and the idea that they will just welcome a bunch of newly unemployed studio devs and pay them to sit at desks while the same amount of work is available as before is unrealistic. Corporations don't take in new job seekers just because they want to be nice. Every dollar paid has to have a purpose, and the margin for waste is extremely small.

Thanks for explaining corporate employment.

It needs to be done, if people actually think ZOS is just going to welcome (and pay) hundreds of devs from shuttered companies to work on ESO and the new AAA title.

Who actually thinks that? Exactly?

Someone stated, "They're getting more people. Not less." Which means someone thinks that ZOS will be paying more money to do the same jobs.

No it means there is an investment contingent on increased returns, which if it doesn't manifest, will get reversed, and it means there's capacity in the budgets, to carry that in the short term.

Isn't it more logical to think that the cream of the crop will be replacing the less productive redundant positions? Wouldn't that "mean they can do even more to grow the world that millions of players call home?" By being more productive and creative?

https://www.zenimaxonline.com/games

No.

spartaxoxo · July 4

katanagirl1 wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

There wasn't a lot in this update for endgame players, to be honest. I believe the appeal is mainly directed towards the 99% of players on Consoles and PC — those who aren't endgame players.

I see Housing Tours as a benefit for consoles. They are still at stone knives and bearskins, so just about any QoL looks like Christmas morning.

On the console, into housing and could less about tours. I was hoping for at the very least a way to search through plans when constructing. I have so many plans it's make it hard to find what I want.

A furnishing bag would be ideal, but I don't see that happening.

When I commented on another thread that I hoped it was a way to keep track of which furnishing plans we did not have on console, the response was that would be a disappointment for everyone. I was sort of low balling it for the one feature that would greatly help me. So I am disappointed in that was not it. I have to fill out a spreadsheet to keep track of which plans I have and which I do not. I don’t really want to take time out from playing to do that monumental task.

I did not see the stream but am trying to get a feel for what these housing tours would be. I like the idea of getting more visibility in housing, not my own personally, but a way to see other houses that are contest worthy, so it may be of use for me. It’s just there are so many other things that could have been added along with that.

Yeah. I think people that were expecting big new functionality or increased slots over hyped themselves. QOL changes aren't things that are big new features. And the devs have telling us for years that we will not be getting more slots because it is not feasible on a technical level.

So I didn't expect things like gardening, mannequins, or more slots. I knew it wasn't going to be that..

I have wanted this functionality for years, so I am pleasantly surprised it's being added. But I definitely understand those that wanted something more pressing and universally applicable like an improved way to keep track of plans and search them in guild stores. That's certainly in line with QOL updates and probably one of the most direly needed things. It is certainly more important than tours. We have almost 3000 plans. Deconstruction is another good example of something actually QOL. Realistically, tours should have been a side attraction, not the main event. After all, it's only really good for us console players. And even then, probably only those of us that are into sharing big constructions.

WolfCombatPet · July 4

Harry_Toes wrote: »

I wonder what the going rate for housing votes will be. It might be a good way to pick up extra gold if people are willing to pay enough.

This happened in Rift.

Voting in housing was hated. It caused so much drama.

This is NOT a good idea.

Housing is the whole reason I play ESO, and my disappointment at "Home Tours" is immeasurable.

Anifaas · July 4

Rkindaleft wrote: »

We lost Q3 Dungeons and Q4 Zone for this...

This is it right here. I don't think anyone would be upset about this house tour feature if content hadn't been reduced to a couple days of questing and a long tedious grind for the year. Not only a year, but a significant anniversary year. ZOS is charging nearly the same as a full blown game for the chapter and delivering far, far less than ever before. Far, far less than what their peers are offering too. It is quite concerning. Are we on austerity now? Has ESO peaked?

johnjetau · July 4

alternatelder wrote: »

Just wait until they finally reveal the pvp update. I hope everyone is tempering they're expectations for that.

After that livestream I'm not expecting anything anymore.

colossalvoids · July 4

Wonder what people who said it wasn't in the maintenance mode (since zen started developing new IP) thinking now after each one update being more and more shallow than the previous one.

Syldras · July 4

colossalvoids wrote: »

Wonder what people who said it wasn't in the maintenance mode (since zen started developing new IP) thinking now after each one update being more and more shallow than the previous one.

That's not exactly maintenance mode, to be fair. They do still release completely new content like the Archive and the new chapters. What baffled me though, are people who claim there was no content reduction at all. I mean, that's too obvious?!

LunaFlora · July 4

colossalvoids wrote: »

Wonder what people who said it wasn't in the maintenance mode (since zen started developing new IP) thinking now after each one update being more and more shallow than the previous one.

it still isn't in maintenance mode.
i am quite sure if it were we wouldn't get any new content whatsoever.
this article talks about maintenance mode and it absolutely does not currently fit ESO at all.
https://massivelyop.com/2021/04/23/vague-patch-notes-what-we-mean-when-we-talk-about-mmo-maintenance-mode/

be realistic. this game is not dying nor in maintenance mode. we get regularly big quarterly updates with incremental patches in-between.
a new feature/system at least every other update like Tribute, Companions, Antiquities, Scribing, the Archive, or now Home Tours. which get expanded upon yearly (companions) or every quarter (housing).

we are in the middle of the game's 10 year anniversary celebration which is supposed to last till July 2025. it includes spotlights every month with Vvardenfell and Clockwork City right now.

it's not repeats of events with nothing new either, every event has a new outfit style or like base game events recently event decorations around major towns.

update 43 includes a medium sized classic home as well, something housing fans have long been asking for.
And the second house that we will be able to acquire with event tickets: Haven of the Five Companions for q4 events.

Believing updates are shallow is fine as obviously not everyone thinks that and that also doesn't make the be in maintenance mode. we do not have to like every little thing we get in eso.

LaintalAy · July 4

There's some writing on the wall here.

TDVM · July 4

Worst update there could be in the game for homeowners

Bammlschwamml · July 4

Jaraal wrote: »

So what will all these devs from the shuttered companies be working on? Will they be cutting hours to 20-30 hours per week to make room for all the new people? Isn't it more logical to think that the cream of the crop will be replacing the less productive redundant positions? Wouldn't that "mean they can do even more to grow the world that millions of players call home?"

"Cream of the crop" or "efficiency" might sound nice to some people. But you should not forget that we are talking about humans here, not robots. Humans have limits and employers should respect that, instead of burning them out in their best years and then just replace them...

While i don't believe "millions of players" are actually playing ESO, the game itself is constantly growing. Wouldn't it be logical to assume that the team has to grow too? In my opinion it is very obvious that everyone would benefit a lot from hiring more people and investing more of the crownstore money back into this game. There is a lot of work to be done and a lot of money to be made.

master_vanargand · July 4

Some people believe that a business is making a $1 item look like it's worth a million dollars.
But I don't think the game creators are doing work that's worth a dollar.
I think that in the near future all work should be done by AI.
At least AI won't slack off at work.

AzuraFan · July 4

colossalvoids wrote: »

Wonder what people who said it wasn't in the maintenance mode (since zen started developing new IP) thinking now after each one update being more and more shallow than the previous one.

We're not in maintenance mode because they're still releasing chapters and adding new features. However, it's clear that the dev resources have been reduced.

Elsonso · July 4

Jaraal wrote: »

Someone stated, "They're getting more people. Not less." Which means someone thinks that ZOS will be paying more money to do the same jobs.

That seems to be what is happening, according to reports. That is even assuming that ZOS was already paying Roundhouse for their assistance. As near as I can tell, Roundhouse wasn’t working on anything, so many of them may have been working on ZOS projects.

When I said that the devs seem to be missing, I wasn’t talking about fewer devs working on ESO. I was merely observing that Update “forty free” is distinctly lacking in… well… everything. It is like ordering a full meal and only getting a couple sides.

Edit… that is also why I said the patch notes had better be Shakespeare. Bug fixes, mostly. A masterpiece of bug fix lines.

Syldras · July 4

master_vanargand wrote: »

I think that in the near future all work should be done by AI.
At least AI won't slack off at work.

I'm really looking forward to character models with 6 fingers per hand, as well as dialogues and quests that are 80% NSFW.

master_vanargand · July 4

Syldras wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

I think that in the near future all work should be done by AI.
At least AI won't slack off at work.

I'm really looking forward to character models with 6 fingers per hand, as well as dialogues and quests that are 80% NSFW.

But at least the AI does its job.
It's better than the lies told by game creators who don't do their job.

Soarora · July 4

LunaFlora wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Wonder what people who said it wasn't in the maintenance mode (since zen started developing new IP) thinking now after each one update being more and more shallow than the previous one.

it still isn't in maintenance mode.
i am quite sure if it were we wouldn't get any new content whatsoever.
this article talks about maintenance mode and it absolutely does not currently fit ESO at all.
https://massivelyop.com/2021/04/23/vague-patch-notes-what-we-mean-when-we-talk-about-mmo-maintenance-mode/

It isn’t yet, but it will be.

LunaFlora wrote: »

be realistic. this game is not dying nor in maintenance mode. we get regularly big quarterly updates with incremental patches in-between.
a new feature/system at least every other update like Tribute, Companions, Antiquities, Scribing, the Archive, or now Home Tours. which get expanded upon yearly (companions) or every quarter (housing).

The game is dying, that’s realistic. The game has not felt the same as before AWA and it never will again. After this “housing update” debacle I cannot think of any community in the game who still overall likes ZOS. I see more people quitting than new people and no one around me is happy. Dungeon and trial guilds stopped filling runs. DPS dungeon queue got shorter. Now, the economy is struggling with things not selling like before and prices dropping. ZOS shot the game twice with AWA and U35 and unless they stand up and start making meaningful big changes, ESO is going to bleed out.

We do not get quarterly big updates. We *used* to. Now, I understand the year-long story situation was difficult to keep up with but the story and dungeon content we do get aren’t getting much better— they’re getting worse. Playing nonDLC story zones to get a house, I was surprised by the amount of quests available compared to West Weald. I saw a post here of someone completing the entire DLC in a DAY. We are paying like 40 dollars for this! The 2 new dungeons this year were also much easier than other years, which may be a testament to my growth however literally everyone I ran with also mentioned this. People got both tris within the first month, first week or day, even. Like the only thing that was possibly hard was the mini bosses in OP last boss on HM. Scribing was also a let-down. Yes, I see people use scribed skills. I also use scribed skills but using scribed skills made my rotation more complicated with little benefit. It feels like it looks better than it is.

LunaFlora wrote: »

we are in the middle of the game's 10 year anniversary celebration which is supposed to last till July 2025. it includes spotlights every month with Vvardenfell and Clockwork City right now.

Okay, so, some endeavors give more. Sometimes we get a DLC free. It’s marketing. It’s not for us.

LunaFlora wrote: »

it's not repeats of events with nothing new either, every event has a new outfit style or like base game events recently event decorations around major towns.

A single outfit style and sometimes ONE new quest for already incredibly boring events is basically nothing. I appreciate the decoration, but ZOS even messed up putting up decorations with how it was Halloween for like 2 months!

LunaFlora wrote: »

update 43 includes a medium sized classic home as well, something housing fans have long been asking for.
And the second house that we will be able to acquire with event tickets: Haven of the Five Companions for q4 events.

Believing updates are shallow is fine as obviously not everyone thinks that and that also doesn't make the be in maintenance mode. we do not have to like every little thing we get in eso.

We should not have every single thing we ask for, but also being listened to at all is the bare minimum. Objectively, updates are becoming more shallow. Compare this and last year to other years. I’ve heard people say West Weald feels like a story DLC and I raise you: it’s worse. Summerset has less content, but a much better story. Markarth and Deadlands feels bigger because of the two zones.