How long will it take ZOS to bankrupt the old guard?

Araneae6537

sh4d0wh4z3 wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

sh4d0wh4z3 wrote: »

I think everybody has the same idea of liquidating their assets. I'm having a hard time selling items like Dreugh Wax 1000-2000 under the average TTC price, and that's even at a Vvardelfell trader. I list it for that much under, and within 2-3 days, my listings are 1000-2000 above the average price. Even things that I wouldn't expect to be crashing are, like Dwarven Construct parts from AS. I don't think they were given out from anniversary boxes, but I was selling them for ~90k earlier in the year. Now they're half the price. It's still for the best to sell what you have stored since come the end of the year, PC/NA will have prices similar to consoles.

With prices falling, now is the time to hold your assets, if not add to them. The exception would endless base materials that some people buy anyway, like refined silk and platinum. But I think it foolish to sell dreugh wax and other high end materials at this time.

May I ask why it would be foolish to sell items that have been in a crash since the anniversary event? If the prices keep following the same trend they are now, they're going to be worth a lot less by the end of the year, and unless ZOS adds a new sink for these high priced items, they're not going to go back up, so there's 0 point in holding onto them. I can just rebuy when everything is cheap. It's no secret ZOS wants to make the game more accessible to players, and the easiest way for them to do that is to make things more affordable like how they done with jewelry crafting. I'm suspecting the upcoming WSM event is going to give out hakeijos like candy for the first few days due to the PvP update later this year, but who knows. I will be honest and say I received mostly junk from the zenithar event.

IMHO, it is always a mistake to sell an item when there has been a recent glut in supply or the market is in a panic — and in this case both seem to be in play. For an item such as dreugh wax, there will always be some demand for it based on numerous variables, including any change up in the meta. There is always an increase in supply with the anniversary event, and perhaps less demand for it so far this year without much if any change to the meta (I’m not saying this is a bad thing). I do not expect high supply to continue past the anniversary event — indeed, as you said, in contrast to the Jubilee boxes, the Zenithar boxes weren’t worth farming. Therefore, as others in this thread have suggested, prices should eventually stabilize higher than now, although likely below the previous peak.

That is why I think it is a mistake to sell now, because I do not believe that prices will continue to fall and not rebound. Anything is possible, of course, but in my case, my supply is not so vast that I could not use it over time for my own gear and furnishing needs. Indeed, with the change in jewelry, as soon as prices started falling with the announcement, I went from regularly selling mine to holding, and now use for gold jewelry, master writs, and furnishings (only the last of which I ever did before, so you can see where my priorities lie, lol).

Schiffy

What I fail to understand is how people having trouble selling *** is ZOS's fault. There's always a surge of new and returning players when a chapter release hits, the guild store market always goes a bit haywire and then settles back down. The only thing different this time around is the reduction in how long it takes before an item expires. And that's hardly a crisis. Before it was changed, if an item wasn't selling before the 14 day mark, the TTC average has likely gone down and you were likely going to pull it early to relist.

Don't blame the game because you can't get an item to sell.

tomofhyrule

I do think there are more factors at play than just the listing time change. Especially considering the number of people who are claiming that they used to leave things up for that long, so the idea of people pulling things down to relist may not have been much. Also, for people who rely on TTC, it's also got the "recommended" price which does undercut a bit by design.

I think one of the biggest factors was that somehow a lot of money got removed from the economy in a way that a lot of people might not know about. But a trial group I was with once did talk about a recent ban wave on a number of gold sellers - if they have a bunch of accounts that have a lot of gold on hand that are now no longer part of the world, that money essentially got removed from the economy. And if that money isn't flowing into the economy anymore, that also explains why carry runs aren't really happening much either (because you needed beaucoup gold for carries, which you could get from gold sellers) - that was really the context of the conversation was that they were talking about another guild that offers carries. I also know that the changes to gifting have seriously slowed Gold-to-Crown sales as well so Crown prices are higher, which means the massive gold transactions had to have come from somewhere... likely bots and farmers.

I do notice that I'm seeing significantly fewer ads for gold sellers in /zone now. They still pop up every so often, but there was a time a month or two back when they posted constantly and I know I and a bunch of other people reported those as soon as we saw them.

Calastir

Schiffy wrote: »

What I fail to understand is how people having trouble selling *** is ZOS's fault. There's always a surge of new and returning players when a chapter release hits, the guild store market always goes a bit haywire and then settles back down. The only thing different this time around is the reduction in how long it takes before an item expires. And that's hardly a crisis. Before it was changed, if an item wasn't selling before the 14 day mark, the TTC average has likely gone down and you were likely going to pull it early to relist.

Don't blame the game because you can't get an item to sell.

When the game makes a formerly expensive rare item suddenly commonly available to everyone, the game is to blame for the price dropping, do you understand now?

LaintalAy

Schiffy wrote: »

What I fail to understand is how people having trouble selling *** is ZOS's fault. There's always a surge of new and returning players when a chapter release hits, the guild store market always goes a bit haywire and then settles back down. The only thing different this time around is the reduction in how long it takes before an item expires. And that's hardly a crisis. Before it was changed, if an item wasn't selling before the 14 day mark, the TTC average has likely gone down and you were likely going to pull it early to relist.

Don't blame the game because you can't get an item to sell.

but it goes up to eleven...

Aurielle

ClowdyAllDay wrote: »

So i for one have noticed that my stuff isnt selling. Gold mats and crafting tables are just flooding the market and no one can find your stuff to buy it. More and more the game seems to cater to new players and it seems zos is also trying to tank the economy in game to bring down prices. I'm just wondering how long until the 'old guard' are bankrupt and the prices come down to sane levels anyway. At some point the gold sink will have sunk everyone to about the same level of poverty and even guild store prices will have to come down eventually to where sane amounts of in game gold can buy a vendor spot. How long will it take?

Perhaps ZOS wants people to play the game, rather than the economy? Radical idea, I know.

I, for one, am pleased whenever there’s a decline in value on the traders, especially when it comes to things like dreugh wax. New blood is important for any MMO, and easier access to previously exorbitantly expensive crafting mats means that newer players can be a little more competitive in PVE and PVP. Players who feel more effective are more likely to stick around.

Aurielle

SpiritKitten wrote: »

I have half a billion or more in assets (like housing, etc...), and am starting to bleed gold from my over 100 million gold bank, because I am not replenishing it as fast as I am spending it (on housing). I am starting to worry.

As someone with a comfortable 2.5 million gold banked, this made me chuckle. Maybe take a break from housing if dipping below 100 million gold is cause for concern? There is lots of great content to explore in this game that doesn’t burn through gold like housing does.

sarahthes

Aurielle wrote: »

SpiritKitten wrote: »

I have half a billion or more in assets (like housing, etc...), and am starting to bleed gold from my over 100 million gold bank, because I am not replenishing it as fast as I am spending it (on housing). I am starting to worry.

As someone with a comfortable 2.5 million gold banked, this made me chuckle. Maybe take a break from housing if dipping below 100 million gold is cause for concern? There is lots of great content to explore in this game that doesn’t burn through gold like housing does.

I personally fund a trader for my super casual trade guild. The part that's killing me is that prices have dropped but trader bids have not. So I have to farm and sell twice as much just to stay in one place.

My gold reserves are down to 15m. So 1.5 weeks left of guild trader.

Necrotech_Master

Aurielle wrote: »

SpiritKitten wrote: »

I have half a billion or more in assets (like housing, etc...), and am starting to bleed gold from my over 100 million gold bank, because I am not replenishing it as fast as I am spending it (on housing). I am starting to worry.

As someone with a comfortable 2.5 million gold banked, this made me chuckle. Maybe take a break from housing if dipping below 100 million gold is cause for concern? There is lots of great content to explore in this game that doesn’t burn through gold like housing does.

i also have like over 100 mil in the bank, ive probably spent ~4 mil gold or so since gold road came out, but thats due to factors that are easily explainable, outside of that, i have almost no expenditures on gold lol

the items ive primarily spent gold on: 1.3 mil for the new house, ~2 mil on scribing system (initial buying of all items on scholarium vendor for my main cost ~700k, and then it was ~110k per alt to buy out the vendor (and i have 10 alts)), ~1 mil spent buying various collectibles (motifs and furnishing plans mostly, because more motifs were in my desired price range, and theres just a ton of furnishing blueprints lol)

out of that, ~3.5 mil of that was basically 1 time purchases (house, and initial scribing stuff for like grimoires and some scripts) so i dont expect to even spend that much lately, and of course im still making steady income from sales as well

part of why i save so much gold is im not really into housing much, outside of owning the homes (free ports!), and i dont really spend much on anything else

i would agree though, it is kind of funny being worried dropping under 100 mil gold when the majority of stuff in this game costs almost no gold, literally everything "expensive" is mostly on guild traders (houses are expensive, but its also 1 time purchase, which is why my gold is so high cause i bought all the houses with nothing else to sink it on lol)

Aurielle

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

SpiritKitten wrote: »

I have half a billion or more in assets (like housing, etc...), and am starting to bleed gold from my over 100 million gold bank, because I am not replenishing it as fast as I am spending it (on housing). I am starting to worry.

As someone with a comfortable 2.5 million gold banked, this made me chuckle. Maybe take a break from housing if dipping below 100 million gold is cause for concern? There is lots of great content to explore in this game that doesn’t burn through gold like housing does.

i also have like over 100 mil in the bank, ive probably spent ~4 mil gold or so since gold road came out, but thats due to factors that are easily explainable, outside of that, i have almost no expenditures on gold lol

the items ive primarily spent gold on: 1.3 mil for the new house, ~2 mil on scribing system (initial buying of all items on scholarium vendor for my main cost ~700k, and then it was ~110k per alt to buy out the vendor (and i have 10 alts)), ~1 mil spent buying various collectibles (motifs and furnishing plans mostly, because more motifs were in my desired price range, and theres just a ton of furnishing blueprints lol)

out of that, ~3.5 mil of that was basically 1 time purchases (house, and initial scribing stuff for like grimoires and some scripts) so i dont expect to even spend that much lately, and of course im still making steady income from sales as well

part of why i save so much gold is im not really into housing much, outside of owning the homes (free ports!), and i dont really spend much on anything else

i would agree though, it is kind of funny being worried dropping under 100 mil gold when the majority of stuff in this game costs almost no gold, literally everything "expensive" is mostly on guild traders (houses are expensive, but its also 1 time purchase, which is why my gold is so high cause i bought all the houses with nothing else to sink it on lol)

Yeah, same. I never know what to spend my gold on (I’m self sufficient crafting mat-wise), so I don’t really even think about it and it just sits there in my bank. Housing is such an insane gold sink, so I’m really glad it’s not what I spend 100% of my time doing in game. No one visits my homes anyway, so I don’t really see the point, myself. I empathize with those for whom housing is the primary activity — I couldn’t even fathom getting anxious about dipping below two million gold, let alone 100 million.

SpiritKitten

I mean...have you seen the prices of some of the furnishing plans? Materials for crafting them? I spent 400k the other day just on Mundane Runes. Housing is my favorite part of this game. I own all gold-buyable homes but 2 because I haven't gotten the achieves yet. I spent over 20 million on my primary home (that's just one home) not including the costs of the alinor furnishing plans. I spend whatever needs to be spent on each house to get the results I want, no matter how expensive the plan/mat cost is. I do not buy pre-made furnishings. I get satisfaction knowing I crafted or surveyed every item in my houses. It's also a goal to learn every furnishing plan in the game. So I have an expensive habit and I need incoming gold to keep up. I made the majority of my wealth on chromium platings. I've been struggling to match that level of income ever since.

SpiritKitten

Aurielle wrote: »

[ No one visits my homes anyway, so I don’t really see the point, myself. I empathize with those for whom housing is the primary activity — I couldn’t even fathom getting anxious about dipping below two million gold, let alone 100 million.

In Update 43, you'll be able to open those homes up for visitors in the group/activity finder.

Aurielle

SpiritKitten wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

[ No one visits my homes anyway, so I don’t really see the point, myself. I empathize with those for whom housing is the primary activity — I couldn’t even fathom getting anxious about dipping below two million gold, let alone 100 million.

In Update 43, you'll be able to open those homes up for visitors in the group/activity finder.

I guess, but for me, housing is merely functional these days. I’ve decorated my primary quite nicely and am proud of what I’ve done with it, but it ultimately serves a purpose (storage, crafting tables, close to a wayshrine). I’ve tried purely decorative homes in the past and wasted a ton of gold on them, and I didn’t even visit them again once the novelty wore off. It felt like a massive waste of gold and time. I don’t really foresee most players using this new housing feature consistently or getting into housing solely because it’ll be possible to showcase their houses to more players. Housing enthusiasts will probably use it for ideas/inspiration, but they’ve already had addons for that purpose for ages.

Reginald_leBlem

People who need supplies will still need them. If the flippers find it not as profitable to buy low and sell high, I can't bring myself to care much. Hopefully we start seeing some lower prices on essentials soon

BoloBoffin

Wereswan wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

ClowdyAllDay wrote: »

So i for one have noticed that my stuff isnt selling. Gold mats and crafting tables are just flooding the market and no one can find your stuff to buy it. More and more the game seems to cater to new players and it seems zos is also trying to tank the economy in game to bring down prices. I'm just wondering how long until the 'old guard' are bankrupt and the prices come down to sane levels anyway. At some point the gold sink will have sunk everyone to about the same level of poverty and even guild store prices will have to come down eventually to where sane amounts of in game gold can buy a vendor spot. How long will it take?

How can you go bankrupt on virtual gold? Just because "profit" no longer is as high as it has been?

This right here. In the real world, people have bills they have to pay. Where's the ESO equivalent?

We need a weekly property tax based on the number and size of player homes you own.

*runs and hides*

Calastir

BoloBoffin wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

ClowdyAllDay wrote: »

So i for one have noticed that my stuff isnt selling. Gold mats and crafting tables are just flooding the market and no one can find your stuff to buy it. More and more the game seems to cater to new players and it seems zos is also trying to tank the economy in game to bring down prices. I'm just wondering how long until the 'old guard' are bankrupt and the prices come down to sane levels anyway. At some point the gold sink will have sunk everyone to about the same level of poverty and even guild store prices will have to come down eventually to where sane amounts of in game gold can buy a vendor spot. How long will it take?

How can you go bankrupt on virtual gold? Just because "profit" no longer is as high as it has been?

This right here. In the real world, people have bills they have to pay. Where's the ESO equivalent?

We need a weekly property tax based on the number and size of player homes you own.

*runs and hides*

Imagine town guards chasing all your toons around until you pay up.