This reminds me of the days when MMOs were more hardcore

steveb16_ESO46

AstroCat wrote: »

I have no problem logging in a few hours here and there at night a few times a week, maybe getting in a longer session sometime over the weekend.

I'm finding ESO's immersive gameplay exactly what I am looking for, I'm totally done with the grinding, mind numbing, instant reward goofball mmo's trending today.

Also - This.

I'm quite happy playing a couple of hours in the evening and a few more hours over the weekend. It doesn't matter that most people in my guild are 10 levels above me.

I can quite happily spend an evening doing a single quest line or even just crafting.

Twistedmind

I agree on things but I also of course am concerned if you put things in this way..

elder42 wrote: »

The game pretty much *required* that your life was the game in order to see progression.

Reasoning in this is simple, game should be entertainment so if you feel that your entertainment is taking over your life then it's always a slippery slope towards what we have seen in news.. people dropping all things side and even letting close family members die ( yes there were incidents when gaming couple got their child killed because "The game took over their lives"

Progression is there, but there should not be pressure or rush element, unless of course you can afford that in your life.

Anastasia

elder42 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

... It goes back to the days of MMOs requiring so much of a time investment that they became more important than life, if you wanted to fully enjoy that MMO...

---

I respect the way you've explained your opinion about ESO. I would note though that one KEY point not being brought up by those who 'don't want old school back or to spend their whole lives on JUST a game': you are probably more mature and at a different stage in your life now? The decisions you make about how to manage your time and life balance will no doubt be DIFFERENT. Many of us have been waiting a LONG time to see a game release that has many current mmo conveniences in place but retains and refreshes mechanics and features we absolutely loved about oldschool gaming and ESO has hit it big-time.

I do not get a high from being led around with a golden sparkly path, I do not feel satisfied if every single quest available has a huge question mark intruding upon my gameplay immersion, and I want to and enjoy it when I think I've 'earned' a piece of loot. That doesn't mean I want to camp a boss spawn for three days and call a guildie at 3 a.m. to alert the static group to log in and GET HERE NOW. What ESO has done is to provide the way to satisfying content and loot without the horribly long game time requirement.

See - we can be anything, use any armor and build our character how we want. There is no requirement to do it FAST. FAST is junk food-itis which we all grab sometimes, and I can get that in plenty of other games if I want to jump in for 20 minutes a play period and 'get stuff' and 'level up'...that is not why I want to play ESO, I want to play ESO because it is a fresh take on one, just one, of my favorite hobbies. I have other things in life, I play ESO how I want, I feel serious enough about it to get satisfaction from my progress but not feel 'pressured to level' or 'p-o'd when I don't get loot from every single mob' and I'm not looking for immediate gratification.

There is a balance and I am very jazzed that the staff of ESO who put so much into developing this game has successfully launched it. A salute to them, an encouragement to players who check it out but make the mature decision that 'they' would actually rather spend more time in an mmo chat room and a little time progressing and fairly easily obtained 'loot'. There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting or enjoying that; I am just saying there is much happiness amongst many gamers that ESO has now become the choice we haven't had in a decade or more. I'm looking on to see if customer service and game maintenance meets the challenges in those areas, and feel fairly positive about that as well.

Absolutely phenomenal already. What other immersive, purely fun, indepth gameplay can we look forward to Zeni? ^-^ Thanks!

Feimerdre

elder42 wrote: »

Games like this lean more towards time investment than human skill requirements. More downtime between mobs due to increased time on regeneration is not skill, it is time. Slower leveling rates is not skill, it is time. Longer runs between questgiver and quest are is not skill, it is time. More time required to get a high-level piece of loot is not skill, it is time. It feels valuable because of all the time invested, but do not confuse that with skill.

Dont get me wrong man, but marching through all you wall of text is also not skill , it is time. I somewhere in the middle stopped being able to follow you.

I have the perfect game for you: Rift Online. It is f2p, p2w, and you can have a lot of success with a minimum of time investment.
It even is a lot of fun. No kidding.

AstroCat

elder42 wrote: »

AstroCat wrote: »

Look it's too bad you had a hard time balancing your hobby/life priorities and had escapism issues but don't lump your experience onto everyone else.

I have a career, kid, wife, house, tons of other hobbies, etc and I'm finding ESO a blast. I've been gaming since the 70's as a hobby, a hobby not everything in life, and no D&D didn't ruin my life, sheesh who are you Tom Hanks!?

I have no problem logging in a few hours here and there at night a few times a week, maybe getting in a longer session sometime over the weekend.

I'm finding ESO's immersive gameplay exactly what I am looking for, I'm totally done with the grinding, mind numbing, instant reward goofball mmo's trending today.

For me ESO hits the groove for an mmorpg, and has zero chance of ruining my life in order to have fun with it. It sounds like there is more going on for you up and beyond just ESO. Good luck with your future gaming hobby life decisions.

This to me sounds a lot like people who smoke cigarettes and get angry when someone talks about how they quit smoking because they realized it was bad for them.

Let's just be honest, MMOs are terrible for people.

What are you talking about? It's nothing like that at all. It's all about balance and expectations. Detoxing and relaxing for a few hours playing a game is a great hobby, I do it on the computer and on the tabletop. It's exciting, rewarding, challenging and a great way to just have some down time fun.

It doesn't have to be a bad habit at all, if it is for you and destroys the rest of your life then yeah, MMOs aren't for you, but that's you not everyone else. I'm totally fine with MMOs and I've never had the excessive compulsive behavior you described with them. Sure, when I have more free time I'll play more games, but when I don't, well I don't and they have to wait.

MMOs are what you make of them, for me they are a game and I treat them just like any other. If I like it I'll put some of my disposable free time into them and get back some good times, if not I'll move on. Sounds 100% reasonable and healthy to me.

JamieK81

I wonder how long this pvp vibe lasts, cause in all mmos i have played, even though the pvp'ers say pvp is more fun because its more challenging and unpredictable on how someone will fight, but ultimately, most pvp'ers tend to make sure they never lose before they even start a fight, hence why there are alot of ganking in some other mmos, they just want to win, not be challenged.

hilelorangutan

elder42 wrote: »

Let's just be honest, MMOs are terrible for people.

I'm sorry, what was your play here? Lecturing people who actually want to have fun playing a game about the potential evils of playing a MMO?

I have a solution for you. Don't play it. Allow the people who don't have moral complexes associated with gaming actually enjoy this well-crafted game. I enjoy the fact that it calls to an older era of MMOs where you had to put some effort in to be rewarded, and I think this was a calculated risk that Zenimax took and that ultimately there are enough people out there who want that that it will succeed.

You are obviously not one of those people and that's fine, but why come on a gaming forum and preach against MMOs? It's just harshing the vibe man.

Stautmeister

I find it entertaining how people here argue that MMO's can destroy the rest of someones life.
Different people have different values.
I think having kids destroy's the rest of your life. They cost more money, a lot of people arnt suited to have them and a lot of people dont care about your kids.

Stating that people waste their lives playing games is extremely demeaning.
Wasting something means it has value. Although people tend to think so, life has no "value". because it is not something that can be measured, only compared to what other people concieve to have "value"
This makes individuals more unhappy than playing games makes them feel happy.
Therefor those that say this are making people unhappy.
So you got a job, kids and a wife. Good for you, now stop judging others on your preconcieved notion of whats right.

Thete

JamieK81 wrote: »

I wonder how long this pvp vibe lasts, cause in all mmos i have played, even though the pvp'ers say pvp is more fun because its more challenging and unpredictable on how someone will fight, but ultimately, most pvp'ers tend to make sure they never lose before they even start a fight, hence why there are alot of ganking in some other mmos, they just want to win, not be challenged.

I don't buy the whole pvp is more challenging nonesense. All I will say on that front is that I did enjoy the pvp in Warhammer Online (as a pve player who doesn't enjoy pvp in most MMOs) and that was famous for being done by some of the guys who worked on DAoC. Well, the guy in charge of this was also a lead on DAoC, so althought I haven't tried ESO pvp yet, I'm not approaching the experience with dread.

Arkhaniir

I agree with almost every comment here. I didn't read all of them. Still as a casual MMO gamer, I love this game. Reason is:
I've never been a hardcore mmorpg player. I am impatient and get distracted way too quickly. Therefor I was never able to farm for leveling and experience. At this point, what this game offers me is great.
As hard as it is in this game and as it will take a lot of time before I get to see the end game content, ESO still offers great amount of stuff to me. Every quest has its own background story which I like to read and follow. It allows me to play in roleplay (not with other people yet. Without the chat bubbles it is hard to contain a roleplay with other players).
I can spend my time, moving slowly on my horse, taking screenshots of the scenery, talking to random npcs, discovering places and looking at different structures and stuff. I also can move in to PvP early and actually do something. Last night I spend few hours in pvp as a 15 level Templar. In keeps I healed people, in combat I chose enemies near my level and charged them in the crowd and took them down. Went on scouting with my party and informed people about the coming enemy parties etc.
What I'm saying is this game offers content to both hardcore and casual mmorpg players. Therefor I think this game is awesome, and balanced.
I even think about opening a character completly based on crafting when my midterms starts. I'll just stay in town crafting when I don't have that much time.

TL;DR
As a casual mmo gamer I can still have a lot of fun and can find alot of things to do. And my friend (with a great mmo history from ultima online to wow, gw etc) can also have as much fun as I do. This is a good game.

Severia

I haven't actually died yet, so I am not finding it too hard. However, I do like that there is less hand holding in ESO than other MMOs.

Feimerdre

Telling on day 5 how PvP is like is nonsense.
PvP at this stage consists of zerg vs zerg vs zerg action. Like it or hate it.
Starting now that some smaller groups hide near ways to keeptakes to kill latecomers or ppl that died and try to get to the action again.
There will be a time when the first groups will start the group vs group fights in certain areas told in teamspeak. This is an all 'natural' process in this PvP concept. There will even be a time when ppl will start to meet for 1vs1 as this is the competitive nature of PvP liking players.
So - any assumptions made about PvP at the current state of the game are blabla.

Laura

This is what I have been waiting for, for years. I am not alone here, I am in a CASUAL multi platform gaming guild and we all agree. Just because we are casual doesn't mean we don't want challenge. Casual doesn't mean bad.

Thete

What I'm looking forward to in pvp is the uneasy alliances with a three faction system. So let's ssay two factions are assaulting a keep, what happens when the keep is nearly take? Does a cunning team decide to hold back and let their allies take the brunt of the casualties so that they are stronger to take the keep when it falls? What if the other faction twigs your plan and holds back themself? Having only dealt with two faction rubbish in the past, I'm really excited about the possibilities.

Gohlar

This is a pretty casual, solo oriented game. It's nothing like the mmos of old...at least in PvE. PvP is solid.

Feimerdre

Thete wrote: »

What I'm looking forward to in pvp is the uneasy alliances with a three faction system. So let's ssay two factions are assaulting a keep, what happens when the keep is nearly take? Does a cunning team decide to hold back and let their allies take the brunt of the casualties so that they are stronger to take the keep when it falls? What if the other faction twigs your plan and holds back themself? Having only dealt with two faction rubbish in the past, I'm really excited about the possibilities.

Having played DAoC for the first 7 years after its release I can tell you that alliances will never lead to 2 factions attacking one keep together. This wouldnt work out, as spell mechanics would hit your allies too. It is more a controlled taking of different keeps to cut off suppy lines or breaking fast travel options. 1 faction will take keep 1 the other will take keep 2. Eventually you will arrange a sandwich fight where 1 faction is attracting the enemy zerg in one direction while the 2nd faction will wait for the fight to begin and then inc from behind.

fredarbonab14_ESO

The one thing I like about this game is: it wasn't designed for the casual player. They have a wide variety of games to choose from right now, instead of ESO.

The world of MMOs has gotten dumber as a result of most games recently going for the big number vs. a more serious (and loyal) but smaller following. We will find out if enough of us are left for ESO to do well with the smaller model.

mutharex

fredarbonab14_ESO wrote: »

The one thing I like about this game is: it wasn't designed for the casual player. They have a wide variety of games to choose from right now, instead of ESO.

The world of MMOs has gotten dumber as a result of most games recently going for the big number vs. a more serious (and loyal) but smaller following. We will find out if enough of us are left for ESO to do well with the smaller model.

I disagree, there are lots of things even for the casual player.

It wasn't designed for people who want to rush to max level following a laundry list of quests, hub from hub and needing to have 'shinies' every few minutes otherwise they get bored. But that's not a casual, that's a wowkiddie (NOT a wow player btw, wowkiddie is akin to wrathbaby)

Gohlar

fredarbonab14_ESO wrote: »

The one thing I like about this game is: it wasn't designed for the casual player. They have a wide variety of games to choose from right now, instead of ESO.

The world of MMOs has gotten dumber as a result of most games recently going for the big number vs. a more serious (and loyal) but smaller following. We will find out if enough of us are left for ESO to do well with the smaller model.

ESO is a very casual friendly game. The difficulty is pretty low and it's very solo oriented in PvE. I'm not saying this makes it bad, but it's definitely a game that caters to the casual player. Solo questing is casual content and this game heavily focuses on it.

knightblaster

I think, in terms of the OP, that it depends on the player.

There are some people who cannot play a game in a way that is non-disruptive, if the game permits them to do so. That is, a game that can swallow countless hours in front of the computer for advancement is something that is too tempting for them in terms of investing those countless hours in a life-disrupting way. It's a kind of compulsion that they suffer from, personally.

In this way it is similar to alcohol. Most people can enjoy a couple of beers or a couple of glasses of wine and that's it. Move on, do something else, and so on. A small portion of people can't enjoy it unless they are drinking a twelve pack or a bottle of wine -- a couple of beers is just irritating to them, it isn't satisfying, it is just irritating. Those people need to avoid alcohol, because their own personality/disposition/physiology cannot manage using alcohol in a way that is not life-disrupting. Everyone else, however, can use alcohol just fine in a non-life-disrupting way without having problems.

So, it really is about the player.

If you are the kind of person who will compulsively play a game that "requires" compulsive play in order to get the endorphin hits you want in the timing and degree that you want, then you probably want to do the responsible thing and not play an MMO that is designed like this one -- I would say, actually, you probably want to stay away from gaming in general, due to the life disrupting risks. If you are the kind of person that can manage it, however, the way the average person manages to just have one or two beers and be satisfied with that, there isn't a problem. The problem is for the people who have a tendency to play compulsively, and they know who they are.

You can argue that a game designed like this one is particularly harmful for the player who is inclined to be compulsive, but the same can be said about being able to buy beer and wine at a 7-11. In the end, it comes down to a person realizing their limitations, realizing that they cannot "game normally" (as an alcoholic cannot drink normally), and move on to other, healthier things in their lives.

Finally, it's true that in terms of self-actualization, gaming does very little. Neither does drinking a beer. It's recreation. It's fine to have recreational time, as long as it isn't life-disrupting, and again that comes down to the individual knowing his/her weaknesses, and acting accordingly in terms of avoiding things that they know they cannot handle like normal people can.

ManiacMcLaughton

I don't mean this to sound troll-ish towards the original poster.... but if thats how you feel, please enjoy your time, and then leave.

This game, from the get go, was designed to be a niche MMO. They don't want WoW's sub numbers. They want to build a fantastic game, and they want people to come play in it that want to. Do you have to put obscene hours in to enjoy the game? No. I have a level 9 character... and its been what.. 6 days? I have very casually enjoyed a very tough experience. I have died, over and over. I have had to be "on my game" to beat some of these bosses (granted, i'm doing most things below suggested level by 2-3 levels). I LOVE everything they have done, and if they "dumb down" my game to make it mainstream, it won't be something i will play much anymore, if at all... and I will be very sad.

Melian

AstroCat wrote: »

Look it's too bad you had a hard time balancing your hobby/life priorities and had escapism issues but don't lump your experience onto everyone else.

I have a career, kid, wife, house, tons of other hobbies, etc and I'm finding ESO a blast. I've been gaming since the 70's as a hobby, a hobby not everything in life, and no D&D didn't ruin my life, sheesh who are you Tom Hanks!?

I have no problem logging in a few hours here and there at night a few times a week, maybe getting in a longer session sometime over the weekend.

I'm finding ESO's immersive gameplay exactly what I am looking for, I'm totally done with the grinding, mind numbing, instant reward goofball mmo's trending today.

For me ESO hits the groove for an mmorpg, and has zero chance of ruining my life in order to have fun with it. It sounds like there is more going on for you up and beyond just ESO. Good luck with your future gaming hobby life decisions.

This, 100% (ok, I was only gaming since the 80's).

To be honest, I find "casual" games like WoW a lot more conductive to addiction. They're designed that way, with dailies and the RNG slot machine (are slot machines addictive because they're good?). Saying good games cause addiction is like saying fine wines cause alcoholism.

Swabby

OP, stop being a judgemental and biased person for all our sakes. You type as if you have all the answers to life and are a better person than those who want a harder game. Or you are a troll. Either way this thread is an abomination filled with prejudice and loathing of a lifestyle you do not approve of.

Many of us have been waiting for a game like this for a long time. Please don't assume we are all basement dwellers who need to get out more when this is what we want.

Daverios

Wat what?

Hardcore is running to the end of a cave and seeing 50 people around in a boss killing, corpse pile creating, lucky if you get one hit in party?

Gee do not know what games you have been playing.

SadisticSavior

elder42 wrote: »

And while many may like that idea, I don't know how it'll fare for Zenimax. This game... it is good, because it reminds me of how things used to be, but because of that, it also feels like a relic. Something that belongs in a museum, because it is worth checking out every now and then to remind where we came from, but not worth keeping around in daily life because the world has moved on.

Yeah, moved on in a really bad way.

Modern MMOs have gravitated towards cartoony anime-type graphics (which I despise with a passion) and a race-to-highest-level that basically makes them into end-game arenas. Neverwinter was an excellent example of the modern MMO and why it is a bad thing. WoW is an example of how bad bad can get if it is left unchecked.

Slow leveling is therefore a good thing, provided the content is fun and abundant. Complexity is a good thing, because it keeps people interested.

elder42 wrote: »

I feel like I've already gone through a phase with games like this and essentially had to live life irresponsibly as a result of it (something I do not wish to repeat - being locked in a room with a game for 20+ hours a week is not healthy when the outside world continues to turn and that life is essentially decaying itself, swearing off RL friends and ignoring RL problems to invest self deeper and deeper in a fantasy world with NPCs I gain emotional attachment to and consider guildies I'll never meet as "friends").

Why? Why do you have to live like that? I love games like this and I have never lived like that. It's possible to do. Really.

If it takes an immediate reward for you to enjoy a game casually, there is no shortgage of MMOs like that.

elder42 wrote: »

It also feels set on emulating outdated MMO mechanics. Last I checked, games like DAoC and AC were still available for play, so I'm not sure why they felt the market needed something that is basically a re-skin of those games.

IMO, this game is nothing like those. The setting alone is an upgrade. I did not want a twist on the D&D game...I wanted something close to the original. Before this game, the only major MMO that provided that was EQ1.

elder42 wrote: »

GW2 and Neverwinter Online (to a lesser degree) recently attempted this, and neither of those games took off.

GW2 was basically a single player game masked as an MMO. Neverwinter was a cartoony mess. A complete waste of the license IMO.

Trouvo

I think the worst thing I read from the OP, is stating that you have to give up your IRL to play a game, and stated he had done this in the past and didnt want to do it again. To that I say.....grow up dude....I am 27, happily married, play games, including ones like this but I know how to balance my entertainment with my responsibilities. I wont let a game take over my life because I choose not to let it, because it is your choice what you do, not the games, not the games design or anything else. Learn some personal responsibility and manage your time for what you need to do and what you want to do.

Mulk

for me, a game like this is time with friends, so it is recreation, but recreation with friends I can't just drive over to see, as the people I game with are from all over.

It has been over four years since I spent more than 20 a week in a game like this. I've been fortunate to be in the beta for this game since the beginning, and it took me probably five weeks or so of 1-2 hours a day (and not every day - I still play Warframe and LOTRO or have real life stuff that takes precedence) to get to 50. If I extend that out, something like 4-5 months to achieve maximum VR from level 1. That's a perfectly (for me anyway) acceptable leveling rate, well worth the sub.

This game has a coherent storyline, occasional choices that affect the game world (meaning people live or die depending on what you do), shoulder armor that isn't stupid, and a graphic design I really enjoy. It has instances that aren't walkovers but aren't impossible either. It has some solo fights that challenged me. It rewards exploration. The pvp, as frustrating as that can get at times, is on an epic scale. In short, I really enjoy what this game is, and what it is not doesn't trouble me.

No, I'm not willing to spend 40 a week to get top spots and gear anymore. Two kids, a spouse, a volunteer ministry position and so forth preclude that, even if I wanted to (and I don't). Yes, this game requires a pretty high time sink if you really want to be top of the world. But that's every game you don't play solo. If you're okay with not being emperor, not having the very best gear within a month, and you prefer to enjoy your time instead of rushing through, I think you'll do very well by this game.

Yankee

So in a nutshell I see walls of text expounding on how video games are really a waste of time?

Well......duh.

It is just like any other form of entertainment with the same requirement to use in moderation.

ers101284b14_ESO

Coming from Final Fantasy 14 I think this game has a nice balance. In A Realm Reborn I was at level 50 in 3 days without even trying, at any level I could kill monsters 6 levels higher than myself. As far as this game I can't do that. I like that I can log in for an hour or two before bed and feel accomplished but also not feel like I'm rushing it. I hope they don't nerf content constantly. Even though I haven't died tons of times I do think it gives me a challenge.

Trouvo

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Coming from Final Fantasy 14 I think this game has a nice balance. In A Realm Reborn I was at level 50 in 3 days without even trying, at any level I could kill monsters 6 levels higher than myself. As far as this game I can't do that. I like that I can log in for an hour or two before bed and feel accomplished but also not feel like I'm rushing it. I hope they don't nerf content constantly. Even though I haven't died tons of times I do think it gives me a challenge.

Nope they actually buffed it a couple weeks ago