Gold Road patch notes: New Environmental Sustainability Features... Can we turn these off?

edward_frigidhands · June 4

ArchMikem wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Jack-0 wrote: »

[snip]

Can you please explain to me how frame limitation and dimming in ESO will alter the worlds climate settings?

I'm seen you say this multiple times now. Sure you're not baiting? The planet's climate is changing regardless at this point. Everything we do now is damage mitigation at best.

Game power draw limits -> less energy consumed -> lower energy demand -> lower power generation required from plants -> less resources consumed/air polluted from those plants.

And Millions of people play this game. And like I said before ZOS removed it, I see mile long Coal Trains pass by my workplace on the daily, to burn so people can power their dual RTX4090s just to go afk with their game running.

[edited to remove quote]

I am sorry but I don't think you've illustrated how exactly monitor dimming and fps capping in ESO will change the climate.

Can you be a bit more precise and provide some power draw numbers and point out to me exactly how changing those will change the worlds climate settings.

I am really curious at this point.

EDIT: What exactly do these many "mile long" coal trains you keep seeing everywhere have to do with fps capping and monitor dimming in Elder Scrolls Online?

edward_frigidhands · June 4

Desiato wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

davidtk wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

The devs have provided an easy tool to help us reduce our consumption if we choose to use it. It seems reasonable to me, so I'm going to try it because I like to reduce my consumption, especially when it's easy.

Nope.
There is no option in the setting to turn this off.
You must manualy edit the usersettings for turn this greta mode off.
You'd be right if that were an option, but it's not.

It is an option because it can be changed. Editing a text file is not difficult. Take a deep breathe, it's not the end of the world.

It ceases to be optional when the studio themselves does not make it plain and inform the user directly that these settings can be turned off via an edit. Other players had to go look for that information. It was unpublished by ZOS.

If it can be changed, it's an option. It takes longer to post a message about it than it does to change it. For those unable to edit a text file, I'm sure there will be an addon to do it within a week.

This has already been addressed by someone experienced with software design in this thread.

Essentially, if it's not changeable via in-game settings than it isn't really a supported option.

I don't think it really invalidates our concerns whether editing the text file works or not.

Additionally, since it's an unsupported change it may stop working at any point in time or cause a host of other issues.

oldbobdude · June 4

In my opinion. The worst part of this is that ZOS sees fit to spend dev hours on intruding on my game while bugs remain unfixed.

belial5221_ESO · June 4

Used to set SET MinFrameTime.2 "0.010000" to 0.0010000 and get huge FPS with vsync disabled.Now it seems they hardcapped fps it in the code,cause the old usersetting edit don't work anymore and it maxes at 120fps.

HatchetHaro · June 5

The screen dimming is so pointless.

Like, you guys do realize that dimming the screen actually increases power draw for most cases, right? Have you done an audit or survey on how many players are actually playing on an HDR or OLED screen? Because most people are still on LCDs, and LCDs work by using power to block light coming from the backlight.

Unless the monitor has a specific (and very annoying) feature that dims the backlight based on content being displayed (a jarring experience), has HDR functionality (generally with localized LED dimming zones), or is OLED, this "environmental sustainability feature" is useless.

edward_frigidhands · June 5

oldbobdude wrote: »

In my opinion. The worst part of this is that ZOS sees fit to spend dev hours on intruding on my game while bugs remain unfixed.

I feel like this is the big one here alongside the fact that it's a decision made by people that don't play the game for people that do play the game rather than an option.

davidtk · June 5

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

Used to set SET MinFrameTime.2 "0.010000" to 0.0010000 and get huge FPS with vsync disabled.Now it seems they hardcapped fps it in the code,cause the old usersetting edit don't work anymore and it maxes at 120fps.

120fps cap is for "Window" and "Window Fullscreen" modes. Use "Fullscreen" and you don't have fps cap. Years I usong Window Fullscreen for alt-tabbing etc and THIS CAN'T be changed. 120fps and no more, I tried everything (drivers, windows), nothing.

And btw they hardcoded 500fps cap for "Fullscreen"
So 120fps for "Window" + "Window Fullscreen".
This is ridiculous. @ZOS_Kevin

Mesite · June 5

Just yesterday I got kicked off three times while I was actually actively playing. If dimming other people's screens while they are at the toilet saves enough server power to stop me from being kicked out while I'm playing the actual game then I'm all for it.

Northwold · June 5

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Is there a way to turn this off?

I wish developer time would be spent solving real problems rather than this stuff.

Interesting that "real problems" here means *things in a video game* whereas "stuff" is the reality of what playing these games means for the real, physical, only planet we reside upon. I mean, seriously?

davidtk · June 5

ivelbob wrote: »

Any tweaking to my ESO display has no material environmental impact as long as billionaires continue to slingshot themselves around the world on private jets, super yachts and personal space rockets.

Bethgael wrote: »

This. thisity this. It's pointless until corps, governments and billionaires actually step up properly. even if every person on earth did the right thing, it only takes one billionaire or corporation to undo it all.

This. I almost can't even refuel my AC on a vintage car, the EU is playing at being eco and with that energy, but just look up in the sky, how the sky over Europe is crowded with planes.
Electric cars are being promoted everywhere, but there is no proper charging infrastructure, let alone pure charging, when there is still energy from coal-fired power stations on the market.
I can hardly see a normal plastic straw, but if I take the main biggest countries in the world, they are fine with super plastic packaging for almost every piece of food or goods.
But I'm not even allowed to have a few more watts of power consumption on my PC.

Btw sending billionare in the personal space rocket around the Earth can theoreticaly push some effort into research and development for more space programs for sending ppl to Mars etc... Theoreticaly.

edward_frigidhands · June 5

Northwold wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Is there a way to turn this off?

I wish developer time would be spent solving real problems rather than this stuff.

Interesting that "real problems" here means *things in a video game* whereas "stuff" is the reality of what playing these games means for the real, physical, only planet we reside upon. I mean, seriously?

Interesting.

What problems do you think you will be solving through capping fps and implementing dimming in Elder Scrolls Online?

I am genuinely curious.

Erissime · June 5

Well... after reading through these forums I dare say this game is getting more and more on the downside. It is first time I did not pre-purchse the new chapter, and now I decided to take a break altogether for a few days from the launch it appears the break will be much... much longer. Any more disturbing news one needs to know before quitting altogether what was otherwise a rather pleasant hobby?

KlauthWarthog · June 5

Erissime wrote: »

Well... after reading through these forums I dare say this game is getting more and more on the downside. It is first time I did not pre-purchse the new chapter, and now I decided to take a break altogether for a few days from the launch it appears the break will be much... much longer. Any more disturbing news one needs to know before quitting altogether what was otherwise a rather pleasant hobby?

Aside from the fact that they are preventing the game client from running when you have monitoring tools up? *
Nope, nothing else horribly shady comes to mind at the moment.

* https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/654126/game-crashes-when-process-explorer-from-microsofts-sysinternals-is-running

davidtk · June 5

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

Erissime wrote: »

Well... after reading through these forums I dare say this game is getting more and more on the downside. It is first time I did not pre-purchse the new chapter, and now I decided to take a break altogether for a few days from the launch it appears the break will be much... much longer. Any more disturbing news one needs to know before quitting altogether what was otherwise a rather pleasant hobby?

Aside from the fact that they are preventing the game client from running when you have monitoring tools up? *
Nope, nothing else horribly shady comes to mind at the moment.

* https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/654126/game-crashes-when-process-explorer-from-microsofts-sysinternals-is-running

That thread is more than interesting.
So it could be reason why eso interfere with some other apps when running and when I close it. (That thing even freeze for minute Steam client or force Steam to crash in bg)
It started long ago with crashing explorer.exe process after closing eso when they started mess with OS. And now when M$ owns it they think that they can do everything.

pklemming · June 5

This should not be on by default, without some way of turning it OFF, in game.

belial5221_ESO · June 5

I can't even get more than 150fps fullscreen.,I updated to new nvidia drivers,turned off vsync, I got graphics minimum,and using a 4060,4600G,16g ram,and ssd.Used to get 400+ on windowed fullscreen.Now everything seems slower,lol.

davidtk · June 5

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

I can't even get more than 150fps fullscreen.,I updated to new nvidia drivers,turned off vsync, I got graphics minimum,and using a 4060,4600G,16g ram,and ssd.Used to get 400+ on windowed fullscreen.Now everything seems slower,lol.

"Window" and "Window Fullscreen" have hard coded cap, for my and wife's 3060 12gb only 120fps. "Fullscreen" have 500fps.
Hardcoced cap is on older and newest nvidia drivers, windows 10 and 11.

Alaztor91 · June 6

Why wasn't this added as an option in the game/graphic settings? We obviously can turn it off on PC with a small edit to the Usersettings. Was it just to annoy console players?

TaSheen · June 6

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Why wasn't this added as an option in the game/graphic settings? We obviously can turn it off on PC with a small edit to the Usersettings. Was it just to annoy console players?

This is the really concerning thing. I don't know how things work on consoles.... but something not fixable/able to be disabled is just really bad for console users....

tincanman · June 6

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Why wasn't this added as an option in the game/graphic settings? We obviously can turn it off on PC with a small edit to the Usersettings. Was it just to annoy console players?

It should be built into the game interface and OFF by default. usersettings are no guarantee that the 'feature' will be available in future and there's nothing to stop zos from just pulling it out of there in any future maintenance.

@Alinhbo_Tyaka explained it much better earlier in thread:

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote:

Having 40'ish years in software design and architecture before retiring undocumented settings are normally not supported. The unsupported editing of the user file requires that the player keep up with every change ZOS makes in order to be sure the variables haven't changed name or function. Manually editing the file also increases the risk of making unintended changes that would prevent the game from running correctly. It might not be a difficult operation but don't ever underestimate the potential for user errors.

This change should have been added to the UI with the new function set to off so that people were not suddenly confronted with unexpected behavior. ZOS could have added a tutorial to point out the new feature and how to use it allowing the player to decide whether it is worthwhile for them or not. After all it isn't up to ZOS to decide how much electricity my computer will use unless they want to pay my bill each month.

It is completely and thoughtlessly arrogant to impose this in this manner.

AzuraFan · June 6

If I hadn't read this thread on the forums, I wouldn't have understood why my monitor was dim when I came back from a break yesterday. Not everyone reads the forums. Fortunately just touching a key or button breaks out of it, but it was still disconcerting. It should definitely be an optional setting that's off by default.

Oh well, I guess this checks a box on some manager's to do list titled "Busy work that doesn't improve anything for anyone".

Marto · June 6

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Why wasn't this added as an option in the game/graphic settings? We obviously can turn it off on PC with a small edit to the Usersettings. Was it just to annoy console players?

Because if sustainability options are added as an option, people won't choose them, and the entire point of the feature is lost.

Playing devil's advocate here, if the feature does what it says it does (and that's a big if, since this could all just be corporations deflecting the blame onto consumers), it will only work if you add up the savings of millions of users.

This is likely some top-down policy from Microsoft, as Windows 11 also has most of its energy-saving features on by default. We'll likely start to see things like this on other Microsoft games soon.

BretonMage · June 6

Marto wrote: »

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Why wasn't this added as an option in the game/graphic settings? We obviously can turn it off on PC with a small edit to the Usersettings. Was it just to annoy console players?

Because if sustainability options are added as an option, people won't choose them, and the entire point of the feature is lost.

They could have it on by default, but with an option in the settings to turn it off, for people who feel it's intrusive to their game experience.

SeaGtGruff · June 6

I've had my screen go dark numerous times due to being AFK or DAK (Distracted At Keyboard) for too long, and it hasn't had any negative impacts on me or my gaming. I honestly don't understand why this is as big of a deal as some of you are making it out to be. /shrug

Northwold · June 6

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Is there a way to turn this off?

I wish developer time would be spent solving real problems rather than this stuff.

Interesting that "real problems" here means *things in a video game* whereas "stuff" is the reality of what playing these games means for the real, physical, only planet we reside upon. I mean, seriously?

Interesting.

What problems do you think you will be solving through capping fps and implementing dimming in Elder Scrolls Online?

I am genuinely curious.

Capping FPS lowers GPU energy consumption when players are away from keyboards (less computation because fewer frames being generated -- you can measure this by looking at GPU consumption when you set an FPS cap of your own). Screen dimming, in screens with certain technologies, does the same.

Necrotech_Master · June 6

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I've had my screen go dark numerous times due to being AFK or DAK (Distracted At Keyboard) for too long, and it hasn't had any negative impacts on me or my gaming. I honestly don't understand why this is as big of a deal as some of you are making it out to be. /shrug

i dont think it was a huge deal, i just found it annoying lol

so i just disabled it using the workaround presented in this thread lol

i still dont see why they didnt just include an option in the settings menu to more easily adjust to user preference instead of forcing it on everyone

Vrienda · June 6

Vynera wrote: »

Documents\Elder Scrolls Online\live\UserSettings.txt

Find and edit following lines:

SET EnergySustainabilityMeasuresEnabled "1"
SET BACKGROUND_FPS_LIMIT "30"
SET USE_BACKGROUND_FPS_LIMIT "1"

1=Enabled
0=Disabled

Edit & Save while the game is fully closed, the settings are applied on the next start.

Thank you so much. This was annoying as hell.

Jaraal · June 6

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I've had my screen go dark numerous times due to being AFK or DAK (Distracted At Keyboard) for too long, and it hasn't had any negative impacts on me or my gaming. I honestly don't understand why this is as big of a deal as some of you are making it out to be. /shrug

i dont think it was a huge deal, i just found it annoying lol

so i just disabled it using the workaround presented in this thread lol

i still dont see why they didnt just include an option in the settings menu to more easily adjust to user preference instead of forcing it on everyone

Because if they gave an option to disable it, it wouldn't be "Doing my part to save the planet!"

However, nobody needs to know what players do with their own text files, now, do they?

Necrotech_Master · June 6

Jaraal wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I've had my screen go dark numerous times due to being AFK or DAK (Distracted At Keyboard) for too long, and it hasn't had any negative impacts on me or my gaming. I honestly don't understand why this is as big of a deal as some of you are making it out to be. /shrug

i dont think it was a huge deal, i just found it annoying lol

so i just disabled it using the workaround presented in this thread lol

i still dont see why they didnt just include an option in the settings menu to more easily adjust to user preference instead of forcing it on everyone

Because if they gave an option to disable it, it wouldn't be "Doing my part to save the planet!"

However, nobody needs to know what players do with their own text files, now, do they?

well they can say that by saying "here, we provided an option to the players to do this, we have enabled it by default"

in reality this is what they did, they just provided no UI for the user to disable this and we have to manually change the setting ourselves

because if they really wanted to force everyone to have the setting enabled, they wouldnt have even included an option in the user settings to change it and just have it built into the game code

Jaraal · June 6

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I've had my screen go dark numerous times due to being AFK or DAK (Distracted At Keyboard) for too long, and it hasn't had any negative impacts on me or my gaming. I honestly don't understand why this is as big of a deal as some of you are making it out to be. /shrug

i dont think it was a huge deal, i just found it annoying lol

so i just disabled it using the workaround presented in this thread lol

i still dont see why they didnt just include an option in the settings menu to more easily adjust to user preference instead of forcing it on everyone

Because if they gave an option to disable it, it wouldn't be "Doing my part to save the planet!"

However, nobody needs to know what players do with their own text files, now, do they?

well they can say that by saying "here, we provided an option to the players to do this, we have enabled it by default"

in reality this is what they did, they just provided no UI for the user to disable this and we have to manually change the setting ourselves

because if they really wanted to force everyone to have the setting enabled, they wouldnt have even included an option in the user settings to change it and just have it built into the game code

But if they say nothing about it, no intent can be proven one way or another. Did they know about players having the ability to disable it? We may never know.