Gold Road patch notes: New Environmental Sustainability Features... Can we turn these off?

Alinhbo_Tyaka

Desiato wrote: »

davidtk wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

The devs have provided an easy tool to help us reduce our consumption if we choose to use it. It seems reasonable to me, so I'm going to try it because I like to reduce my consumption, especially when it's easy.

Nope.
There is no option in the setting to turn this off.
You must manualy edit the usersettings for turn this greta mode off.
You'd be right if that were an option, but it's not.

It is an option because it can be changed. Editing a text file is not difficult.

Having 40'ish years in software design and architecture before retiring undocumented settings are normally not supported. The unsupported editing of the user file requires that the player keep up with every change ZOS makes in order to be sure the variables haven't changed name or function. Manually editing the file also increases the risk of making unintended changes that would prevent the game from running correctly. It might not be a difficult operation but don't ever underestimate the potential for user errors.

This change should have been added to the UI with the new function set to off so that people were not suddenly confronted with unexpected behavior. ZOS could have added a tutorial to point out the new feature and how to use it allowing the player to decide whether it is worthwhile for them or not. After all it isn't up to ZOS to decide how much electricity my computer will use unless they want to pay my bill each month.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

I am pretty surprised this change went through without more backlash on PTS.

I didn't even know about it until today.

Possibly it got overshadowed by issues with PTS changes getting copied over to live on PC/NA and the subsequent wave of bans to clean up the mess. And the non-zero number of people who swore off using the PTS afterwards as a result.

Tandor

Desiato wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

davidtk wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

The devs have provided an easy tool to help us reduce our consumption if we choose to use it. It seems reasonable to me, so I'm going to try it because I like to reduce my consumption, especially when it's easy.

Nope.
There is no option in the setting to turn this off.
You must manualy edit the usersettings for turn this greta mode off.
You'd be right if that were an option, but it's not.

It is an option because it can be changed. Editing a text file is not difficult. Take a deep breathe, it's not the end of the world.

It ceases to be optional when the studio themselves does not make it plain and inform the user directly that these settings can be turned off via an edit. Other players had to go look for that information. It was unpublished by ZOS.

If it can be changed, it's an option. It takes longer to post a message about it than it does to change it. For those unable to edit a text file, I'm sure there will be an addon to do it within a week.

I'm sure all of that will be a great comfort to console players!

Like most here, I've no problem with this sort of thing being added to the game so long as it is optional. That said, I guess a lot depends on your monitor/game settings as it really wasn't a problem when I tested it earlier on PC when the screen dimmed slightly rather than going completely dark (and it turned back to normal instantly when I nudged the mouse). It didn't strike me as something I'd bother to edit a text file over, but I'd still support it being optional.

vsrs_au

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

davidtk wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

The devs have provided an easy tool to help us reduce our consumption if we choose to use it. It seems reasonable to me, so I'm going to try it because I like to reduce my consumption, especially when it's easy.

Nope.
There is no option in the setting to turn this off.
You must manualy edit the usersettings for turn this greta mode off.
You'd be right if that were an option, but it's not.

It is an option because it can be changed. Editing a text file is not difficult.

Having 40'ish years in software design and architecture before retiring undocumented settings are normally not supported. The unsupported editing of the user file requires that the player keep up with every change ZOS makes in order to be sure the variables haven't changed name or function. Manually editing the file also increases the risk of making unintended changes that would prevent the game from running correctly. It might not be a difficult operation but don't ever underestimate the potential for user errors.

This change should have been added to the UI with the new function set to off so that people were not suddenly confronted with unexpected behavior. ZOS could have added a tutorial to point out the new feature and how to use it allowing the player to decide whether it is worthwhile for them or not. After all it isn't up to ZOS to decide how much electricity my computer will use unless they want to pay my bill each month.

I agree with all of this: we needed a UI and some transparency.

edward_frigidhands

g0thiCiCecReaM wrote: »

It's causing random CTDs

What is a CTD?

I love your user name btw.

Tandor

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

g0thiCiCecReaM wrote: »

It's causing random CTDs

What is a CTD?

I love your user name btw.

Crash To Desktop

TaSheen

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

g0thiCiCecReaM wrote: »

It's causing random CTDs

What is a CTD?

I love your user name btw.

Crash to desktop.

edward_frigidhands

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

I am pretty surprised this change went through without more backlash on PTS.

I didn't even know about it until today.

Possibly it got overshadowed by issues with PTS changes getting copied over to live on PC/NA and the subsequent wave of bans to clean up the mess. And the non-zero number of people who swore off using the PTS afterwards as a result.

I remember now.

That's unfortunate given that major changes like this can slip through the cracks.

GuuMoonRyoung

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I had this happen on the test server, and these changes are as annoying as they sound. I couldn't find a setting to control it anywhere.

I found the screen dimming especially intrusive. I don't let windows dim my screen when idle, and I didn't give a game the authority to do so either.

When ZOS starts paying my electric bills and forwarding me the money for GPU upgrades, then they can mess with my FPS. Until then, keep your concerns limited to your companies computers, thank you very much.

I am surprised that I am hearing about this just now if this had been active on PTS.

ZOS messed up something during PTS, it caused a great many people to be unable to for a whole week. Later, many people decided not to go touch PTS. So we barely know anything about any feature. I don't really understand where ZOS got the idea that we would appreciate them tinkering with our hardware without our permission. This is a direct insult to players.

edward_frigidhands

ArchMikem wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

The psychology behind all this is interesting. Companies know there's an audience out there that care about environmental sustainability, fully supporting policies and measures that are supposed to reduce waste and pollution...right up until those measures conflict with "muh freedoms".

Why do you think that caring for the environment and valuing individual freedom of choice are two opposing things? It's very much possible to do both. Actually it's even neccessary to consider both, because lush and healthy landscapes will not help you if you can't live freely anymore. And with freely I don't mean mindlessly causing destruction, but having your own thoughts and making your own decisions without anyone interfering. I do care for sustainability, and I also firmly believe that you can achieve it by education and reasoning.

Because the society that we have built from the 1930s has been one of decadence, opulence, excess, with little regard to its long term consequence cause Humans don't like to plan for the future. We care about our world, not our grandchildrens world. I see Coal trains a mile long pass by my workplace daily, gasoline vehicle emissions are choking the air but we keep building more gas stations and people seek out the lowest mileage gas guzzlers, plastics are still a part of everything we manufacture and most garbage still ends up in landfills. The least we can do is try to be more energy efficient and yet you've seen the majority of the comments here. "Don't tell me what to do with what I paid for I'll consume all the power I want." And the irony that consuming less energy will actually save them money.

If we're gonna learn how to be better, its going to take us a VERY long time to do so, and we're not sure how long we have before the planet starts rejecting us like a virus. I'm already seeing an increase in catastrophic storm systems on the news lately.

Can you show me how capped fps on ESO and monitor dimming will change the climate from the "bad ' setting to the "good" setting.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After removing some unnecessary back and forth from this thread, we would like everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand, civil, and constructive.

If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here

edward_frigidhands

davidtk wrote: »

Does anyone knows why the hell is FPS capped at 120 after update?
Even after turning off that "Greta mode" can't go more than 120 fps.
ZoS rly nobody asked for this. I will decide what will run on my PC and not some green eco who knows who.

Fps cap is a setting. Are you saying it's disabled now?

I am unable to check at this time.

Wolf_Eye

TaSheen wrote: »

@Wolf_Eye - I'm SO sorry to hear you're having health issues, and I do hope you can get to see the specialists very very soon! I have certainly wondered where you've been, but of course, people do have things going on (some of them fun, some of them very much NOT fun).

Good luck in all you do in future, and may life treat you more kindly!

Thank you so much, TaSheen! It means a lot to me.

I had been sick for a while, but this past month has been especially hard.

I really hope and wish I could feel more "normal" (how I felt before I got sick) again one day.

Please take care of yourself as well.

TaSheen

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

@Wolf_Eye - I'm SO sorry to hear you're having health issues, and I do hope you can get to see the specialists very very soon! I have certainly wondered where you've been, but of course, people do have things going on (some of them fun, some of them very much NOT fun).

Good luck in all you do in future, and may life treat you more kindly!

Thank you so much, TaSheen! It means a lot to me.

I had been sick for a while, but this past month has been especially hard.

I really hope and wish I could feel more "normal" (how I felt before I got sick) again one day.

Please take care of yourself as well.

My love and very best wishes for health in the future, and if you ever need a shoulder.... you know how to find me. Hang in there - I know it can be hard, but.... if I can help at all.... I will be more than happy to oblige.

TheMajority

@Wolf_Eye Get better soon Wolf, your forum buddies have your back.


About the new feature: I am not cool with the way this is panning out. I worry about the future if "features" get added with no consent to them. The invironment is important but so is treating mankind with fairness and dignity. The dignified way would be to offer a choice, and information. A lot of people said it better than me. But +1 support to you guys.

TaSheen

TheMajority wrote: »

@Wolf_Eye Get better soon Wolf, your forum buddies have your back.


About the new feature: I am not cool with the way this is panning out. I worry about the future if "features" get added with no consent to them. The invironment is important but so is treating mankind with fairness and dignity. The dignified way would be to offer a choice, and information. A lot of people said it better than me. But +1 support to you guys.

Yup - generalized suckiness here lately.....

Melissa1414

My FPS drops every other minute making trying to fight anything impossible. I even lowered MULTIPLE settings or just turned them off. Way to reward someone who has been a loyal fan of Elder Scrolls games for 22 years.

katanagirl1

Sorry it’s late and I didn’t get through the whole post so forgive me if someone already posted this.

Consoles do not dim the ESO game screen as someone said previously. I think the poster got confused with the energy saving feature that smart tvs have that kicks in after 15 minutes or so.

EDIT: OK now I’m not so sure. Picking up the controller brightens the screen back up so it might be the console or it’s the tv sensing the input. Anyway, it’s not a feature within the game.

Sarannah

Wow, I was not expecting this topic to blow up like this. It is good that ZOS is thinking about the planet and all, but just give us options to change these types of settings. (manually editing a file is not userfriendly)

Have disabled it in the usersettings file now.

Many hardware and software companies are already working on bettering the environment, there is no reason for game companies themselves to be working on stuff like this. GPU's that don't turn on fans when below 60C degrees, motherboards who run cooling and power in the most efficient ways, CPU's only drawing power when they actually need it, PSU becoming more and more efficient, etc, etc. And those are just a few examples.

PS: I go afk quite a lot, and often eyeball the screen to see if the computer is still functioning well/game is still running/character is not being attacked/what chat is saying, having the screen turn incredibly dark isn't good. It looks like the screen turns off for some reason, like something is wrong with it(either software wise or hardware wise).

zaria

Vynera wrote: »

Documents\Elder Scrolls Online\live\UserSettings.txt

Find and edit following lines:

SET EnergySustainabilityMeasuresEnabled "1"
SET BACKGROUND_FPS_LIMIT "30"
SET USE_BACKGROUND_FPS_LIMIT "1"

1=Enabled
0=Disabled

Edit & Save while the game is fully closed, the settings are applied on the next start.

And a toast to you

Marked for referance

Tommy_The_Gun

Fun fact: I have one of those pass-through devices connected to power socket that measures total watts used by electric equipment.

It is hard to tell after 1 day of playing ESO with this new "Environmental Sustainability Feature", but at least for now I have not noticed any difference in total power consumption.

The whole idea is with this features, you are supposed to have slightly less power consumption (assuming if only thing you are doing is playing ESO & sometimes you alt-tab or move away from the PC etc).

Again, it is hard to tell after one day, but if it will turn out that it doesn't do what it is supposed to do, then it is just an unnecessary gimmick & I think I will disable it lol.

Syldras

Jack-0 wrote: »

[snip]

Educate people about the problem.
Explain to them what they can do to improve the situation.
Let them make their own decisions.

Benefits:
People actually understand what it's about.
They contemplate the topic.
There is no loss in individual agency.
There is no backlash because no one feels forced.

I thought it was consensus a few years ago that it makes more sense to teach people the benefits of a behavior so they'll do it out of their own conviction instead of just commanding them to do it or to decide it over their heads.

[edited to remove quote]

Anifaas

Syldras wrote: »

Jack-0 wrote: »

[snip]

Educate people about the problem.
Explain to them what they can do to improve the situation.
Let them make their own decisions.

Benefits:
People actually understand what it's about.
They contemplate the topic.
There is no loss in individual agency.
There is no backlash because no one feels forced.

I thought it was consensus a few years ago that it makes more sense to teach people the benefits of a behavior so they'll do it out of their own conviction instead of just commanding them to do it or to decide it over their heads.

That sounds like a lot of work. I'm already using paper straws!

/s

[edited to remove quote]

Syldras

Anifaas wrote: »

That sounds like a lot of work. I'm already using paper straws!
/s

Yeah, sorry, while I'm not a teacher in the usual sense, I still have learned a bit about education, and one big policy was (actually already since the mid-90's or so): Don't force people, educate/inform them so they see the benefits and do it freely (of course, some won't, and that's to be accepted, because people are free to make their own choices).

P.S. Actual straw straws are more stable that the annoying paper ones. Funny thing actually, as those had been common here until the 70's, before the plastic straw became standard. Now some companies sell them as if they were some super modern progressive invention.

Einar_Hrafnarsson

Sarannah wrote: »

To me all these options only look bad, from the fluctuating GPU temps(halfing fps/30 fps cap) being bad on the hardware itself, to this being bad for my eyes(screendimming/fps fluctuations).

It is amazing how many conflicting infos you can get on the internet and on Forums. I agree and know that low FPS is bad for the eyes and can cause headaches but reducing FPS and Temps usually expand the lifetime of a GPU/CPU since they do not always run on full power.

Personally i always limit my FPS to the refresh rate my monitor is able to display (75 FPS in my case)
When minimizing my Game i have it set to 30 FPS (i'm not looking at it at that moment so it makes sense) so the Graphics card has an even easier Time. Giving your GPU a break is not bad.

Anifaas

Syldras wrote: »

Now some companies sell them as if they were some super modern progressive invention.

Sort of like instituting paper straws as a measure to combat excessive pollution (while serving drinks in plastic cups) or mandatory system settings that mess with your computer in a game that already logs you out fairly quickly if you're idle for a short period.

edward_frigidhands

Jack-0 wrote: »

[snip]

Can you please explain to me how frame limitation and dimming in ESO will alter the worlds climate settings?

[edited to remove quote]

Alinhbo_Tyaka

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Jack-0 wrote: »

[snip]

Can you please explain to me how frame limitation and dimming in ESO will alter the worlds climate settings?

It won't have an effect on the world climate problem. The change is virtue signalling while ignoring the fact that the server farms used to run the game use more power than all of the player machines combined.

[edited to remove quote]

ArchMikem

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Jack-0 wrote: »

[snip]

Can you please explain to me how frame limitation and dimming in ESO will alter the worlds climate settings?

I'm seen you say this multiple times now. Sure you're not baiting? The planet's climate is changing regardless at this point. Everything we do now is damage mitigation at best.

Game power draw limits -> less energy consumed -> lower energy demand -> lower power generation required from plants -> less resources consumed/air polluted from those plants.

And Millions of people play this game. And like I said before ZOS removed it, I see mile long Coal Trains pass by my workplace on the daily, to burn so people can power their dual RTX4090s just to go afk with their game running.

[edited to remove quote]

SkaiFaith

ArchMikem wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Jack-0 wrote: »

[snip]

Can you please explain to me how frame limitation and dimming in ESO will alter the worlds climate settings?

I'm seen you say this multiple times now. Sure you're not baiting? The planet's climate is changing regardless at this point. Everything we do now is damage mitigation at best.

Game power draw limits -> less energy consumed -> lower energy demand -> lower power generation required from plants -> less resources consumed/air polluted from those plants.

And Millions of people play this game. And like I said before ZOS removed it, I see mile long Coal Trains pass by my workplace on the daily, to burn so people can power their dual RTX4090s just to go afk with their game running.

[edited to remove quote]

If you don't want me to use dual 4090s machines... Well, you better don't put them on sale altogether.

Pushing every year more power demanding products and then force them to run worse it's straight out dumb thinking.

As pointed out by others, the point is giving a choice - let the owner decides how to use its payed product. Implement alternatives, sure, suggest what you want and advertise it in non-intrusive ways, but don't force it. That's the only complaint.

Thinking forcing something on people is good... Oh boy, I thought I had already defeated Molag Bal and every authoritarian threat in Tamriel. What have I been fighting for?! XP