glitches, or misunderstandings? Gold gains event

Malyore

Once again there is an event going on in ESO that claims all in-game gold gains are doubled. But once again, selling or fencing treasure items is not being effected by this boost. Is this a bug? [snip] Or am I misunderstanding what gold sources are?

[edited for conspiracy theory]

LunaFlora

it is just gold you get from sources like monsters or quests,
not gold from selling items that already have a specific value like treasures

LunaFlora

Kevin answered this question during the recent gold event

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8105850#Comment_8105850

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Merchants are not defined as an earnable game source. This is referring to sources were you can pick up gold. Merchants don't count in that unless they are used for completing a quest where gold is earnable. This is not a bug.

vsrs_au

It's good to have multiple crafters during events like this one.

BretonMage

Gilded Sleight in the IA should also be included in the double drop (don't know if they fixed it yet), but everything else is reasonable. I don't really expect trading (by vendor or otherwise) to give us extra gold.

Malyore

LannStone wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

Once again there is an event going on in ESO that claims all in-game gold gains are doubled. But once again, selling or fencing treasure items is not being effected by this boost. Is this a bug? [snip] Or am I misunderstanding what gold sources are?

[snip]

I think for a game to say "Find double gold from all game sources" then to intentionally not provide that... is deceptive. Someone here clarified that ZOS reps have said that treasure, an item which its only purpose as far as I know is to sell/fence to game merchants for gold, is not considered a source of gold from this game. (Maybe I'm using treasure items wrong. What do y'all do with your treasure? Hope the guards don't find out I've been buying items with not-gold this whole time.)

Good to know what is considered sources here, but I don't think that's just a misunderstanding on my end.
All in all, it's really not a big deal. It's still a free event with free laurels and just a videogame. [snip] The events seem to have that issue a often. I remember the same thing happened with the crafting events writ vouchers. If this event simply said "Find double gold from quest rewards and monster kills" then it wouldn't feel like there's a bug going on.

[edited for bashing & to remove quote]

BretonMage

Malyore wrote: »

If this event simply said "Find double gold from quest rewards and monster kills" then it wouldn't feel like there's a bug going on.

You get extra gold from any loot source, including treasure chests. I'm guessing they used that expression to avoid having to list all possible sources. I personally did not expect trading to be included, as it is an exchange, not a "source" per se.

Hapexamendios

Can I have double gold from my guild sales, please? 🥺

Grizzbeorn

Malyore wrote: »

Good to know what is considered sources here, but I don't think that's just a misunderstanding on my end.
All in all, it's really not a big deal.

It absolutely is all on your end. Selling to vendors has never been a source in these types of events.
And if it's "really not a big deal," why was your first choice of labeling the situation to accuse them of lying before anything else?

Malyore

BretonMage wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

If this event simply said "Find double gold from quest rewards and monster kills" then it wouldn't feel like there's a bug going on.

You get extra gold from any loot source, including treasure chests. I'm guessing they used that expression to avoid having to list all possible sources. I personally did not expect trading to be included, as it is an exchange, not a "source" per se.

I see "source" as it being spawned from the game itself. Well, technically source makes the most sense to me as a gold ore vein lol, but since those aren't in the game we are left with these sources to get gold: Looting, rewards, and selling. NPCs reward us gold for doing a task for them. NPCs also give us gold for when we sell items. Both are offerings of gold in exchange for something from the player. A key element about these NPCs and even the ones you kill is that they spawn gold for the players.

As you said, non-source trading I can see as being excluded from the bonus for obvious reasons.

Hapexamendios wrote: »

Can I have double gold from my guild sales, please? 🥺

All the shenanigans of if multiplayer guild tradings were affected by this aside... the gold that players exchange has already come from a source, that source again being looting, rewards, and selling to NPCs (that moment when gold is spawned into the game). It just seems so odd to me to exclude that last source from the bonus and to say nothing about it in the event.

Malyore

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

Good to know what is considered sources here, but I don't think that's just a misunderstanding on my end.
All in all, it's really not a big deal.

It absolutely is all on your end. Selling to vendors has never been a source in these types of events.
And if it's "really not a big deal," why was your first choice of labeling the situation to accuse them of lying...

If I truly am the only one to see the definition of "game sources" as different than what others see, then my perception is moot. But as I said in my reply above, I feel there's solid reason to consider NPC merchants as a source. Since it's been explained that it's not a bug and is intentional, and the very fact that Kevin has had to make a reply about it in other threads to clarify just what "source" means, that tells me other players have the same expectations of sources as I did. Yet the events continue to not explain that and instead this discussion reoccurs on forums for the people like myself and those others that haven't had that clarification. In that case, my feeling like it's deceptive returns to this

Malyore wrote: »

All in all, it's really not a big deal... [snip] The events seem to have that issue a often. I remember the same thing happened with the crafting events writ vouchers.

If my definition of game source is correct though and they just choose not to affect NPC selling for some reason, then it'd definitely feel like a direct-damage lie to the face. But, once again, that hypothetical lie has little impact on life and thus is not a big deal (even if it were still annoying). That's why I said it the way I said it. Because I felt NPCs are valid sources, and if it's not a bug or a misunderstanding of wording on my end, then that was what I saw it as.

[edited to remove quote]

DenverRalphy

When you're selling items to a merchant/fence, you are not getting/earning/generating gold from a source (no matter how you try to define it).

You're simply converting assets into a currency. You're not increasing your character's net worth. You're not generating income. If your character has zero monies, zero items, and you pick up an item worth 1k gold, your character is now worth 1k gold. When you convert that item into gold, your character is still worth exactly 1k gold. You didn't earn/acquire gold, you simply converted an asset.

The event bonus does NOT say "Everything is double their gold value".

Malyore

DenverRalphy wrote: »

When you're selling items to a merchant/fence, you are not getting/earning/generating gold from a source (no matter how you try to define it).

You're simply converting assets into a currency. You're not increasing your character's net worth. You're not generating income. If your character has zero monies, zero items, and you pick up an item worth 1k gold, your character is now worth 1k gold. When you convert that item into gold, your character is still worth exactly 1k gold. You didn't earn/acquire gold, you simply converted an asset.

The event bonus does NOT say "Everything is double their gold value".

That still doesn't make sense to me. How is giving an item to an NPC and being merited with gold any different than giving an item to a wooden crate and also being merited with gold, as writ quests do? It's still a conversion of assets into currency. Is it because gold from sold items doesn't scale with your characters level like rewards and loot do?

How are NPC merchants spawning new gold (being a printing press of game currency) and thus a source of gold development...not considered a source? I don't see the distinction. Unless merchants do not actually spawn gold and instead pull from a giant pool of preowned gold they got from players. Like a profit pool from luxury furnishings and the such, but I highly doubt this is how they function.

Where do NPC merchants get their gold from when you sell them an item? The answer to that will really shape my whole understanding of the process.

Necrotech_Master

BretonMage wrote: »

Gilded Sleight in the IA should also be included in the double drop (don't know if they fixed it yet), but everything else is reasonable. I don't really expect trading (by vendor or otherwise) to give us extra gold.

this is not a bug either (as far as im aware), even the IA specific verse to increase gold gains does not affect the amount given from gilded sleight

KlauthWarthog

The issue with doubling gold from selling to NPCs is that you can buy the item back.
So, sell at double value, buyback, sell at double value...
They would have to double the buyback value as well... except for things sold before the event started... and now you have a pointless mess on your hands.

Malyore

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

The issue with doubling gold from selling to NPCs is that you can buy the item back.
So, sell at double value, buyback, sell at double value...
They would have to double the buyback value as well... except for things sold before the event started... and now you have a pointless mess on your hands.

That makes sense to exclude that source then if they're not wanting to go through the effort of coding a way to prevent that exploit/mess. A similar thing happened with transmute crystals during a crafting event. Though I'm pretty sure the way they make these bonuses does automatically separate old items vs new items in an event. During that crafting event, master writs were supposed to drop double the vouchers, but this was not true and instead only newly acquired writs during the event got the bonus.

I still wish there was at least a clarification on that when they announce an event though. Leaving it to the players to determine what's an affected source and what is an ignored source can be a little frustrating.

Dagoth_Rac

The game "sourced" you some random trinket, not gold. It may be a technical term for "sourced" but it is consistent within the game world. Otherwise, you could have a thievery alt who never fences his purple items and instead builds up a stockpile of 215 purple items to sell for double when an Explorer's event comes around. They want the Explorer's event to encourage you to play during the event, not hoard stuff and make a bunch of money in the first 10 seconds of event.

Malyore

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

The game "sourced" you some random trinket, not gold. It may be a technical term for "sourced" but it is consistent within the game world. Otherwise, you could have a thievery alt who never fences his purple items and instead builds up a stockpile of 215 purple items to sell for double when an Explorer's event comes around. They want the Explorer's event to encourage you to play during the event, not hoard stuff and make a bunch of money in the first 10 seconds of event.

If that's their reasoning behind excluding it I still think it should be explained then.

While I'm sure there are folks that would go through all that effort to have some big payoff in one day, and this may be against some intention... on the opposite side of that argument I feel discouraged to play when an event doesn't meet expectations. When I first heard of the event, the first thing I did was start to play on my thief alt, only to find that what I use that character for wasn't boosted. So instead of playing and doing thieves guild quests and such, I instead just spend 2 minutes doing the crafting writs and then log out.

What do you mean by being consistent with the game world though?

LaintalAy

Malyore wrote: »

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

The issue with doubling gold from selling to NPCs is that you can buy the item back.
So, sell at double value, buyback, sell at double value...
They would have to double the buyback value as well... except for things sold before the event started... and now you have a pointless mess on your hands.

That makes sense to exclude that source then if they're not wanting to go through the effort of coding a way to prevent that exploit/mess. A similar thing happened with transmute crystals during a crafting event. Though I'm pretty sure the way they make these bonuses does automatically separate old items vs new items in an event. During that crafting event, master writs were supposed to drop double the vouchers, but this was not true and instead only newly acquired writs during the event got the bonus.

I still wish there was at least a clarification on that when they announce an event though. Leaving it to the players to determine what's an affected source and what is an ignored source can be a little frustrating.

It has always been gold that 'drops' when you 'loot' something during these events.
I hadn't ever considered that selling an item might provide 'double gold'.

That said, I'm not sure how gold contained in 'Hidden Treasure' bags is handled by these events.

If you're really hard-pressed for gold, then you need to consider collecting items that are lying around for free and selling them through a Guild Trader.

amapola76

I do think it's very badly worded, but as they have clarified the answer and widely circulated that answer, I would assume it's a done deal at this point and there's no point in fussing over it. Maybe they can consider proofreading this sort of thing more carefully in the future, though.

barney2525

I would think the Event would affect the Random gold generated from looting.

Gold that has set prices would not be affected.

MJallday

Traders are not sources

It’s really not hard people

furiouslog

I love these arguments that go like this:

A: Hey, this thing does not make sense to me! Shouldn't it be like X?

B: No, that thing is explicitly defined as Y.

A: Well wait, I think it should be like X, right? Why should it be Y?

B: Well, it is Y, by design, and here are the reasons.

A: Yeah, but it makes more sense to me if it's X, so shouldn't it be X?

B: *bangs head on keyboard*

C: *makes meta post describing frustration with quality of forum posts*

belial5221_ESO

Selling/fencing items is not a gold source,since you're trading.Quests and looting are gold sources,and they could state that insted,but most already know.

LunaFlora

By the way the event post says:
"+100% gold earned from monster kills, quest rewards, and similar sources"

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/66063

so it is already quite clear.

Malyore

LunaFlora wrote: »

By the way the event post says:
"+100% gold earned from monster kills, quest rewards, and similar sources"

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/66063

so it is already quite clear.

Where was this at? I was going based off of the one from the games homepage when you log in. Did you find the webpage just by searching for it, or was it posted somewhere? I'm on Sony.

Malyore

furiouslog wrote: »

I love these arguments that go like this:

A: Hey, this thing does not make sense to me! Shouldn't it be like X?

B: No, that thing is explicitly defined as Y.

A: Well wait, I think it should be like X, right? Why should it be Y?

B: Well, it is Y, by design, and here are the reasons.

A: Yeah, but it makes more sense to me if it's X, so shouldn't it be X?

B: *bangs head on keyboard*

C: *makes meta post describing frustration with quality of forum posts*

It is silly isn't it, especially how it can go both ways because I feel like B in this situation. I don't understand how I'm not making sense. I can't see the disagreement that something that generates gold into the game and thereby raising the total number of gold throughout all of ESO is not considered a gold source.

Like, if hypothetically the total sum of all gold that exists between all the players in ESO totals out to 1 thousand gold, then no matter how much player-selling/trading happens, that 1k total gold stays the same number. If players are selling items to each other, the gold just gets moved around and the total in all of the game isn't rising. That's not a generation, aka a source. But then suppose a player earns a quest reward and is given 100 gold. Now the total gold number in all of ESO throughout all the players and servers is 1,100. Gold has been generated, it has been sourced into the game. It did not exist before that quest reward. This is agreed upon by the community and the event. Now suppose another player loots a treasure chest and they find 100 gold in the chest. Once again, gold has been sourced into the totality of the game and the total amount of gold in all of ESO is 1,200. Again, there seems to be agreement that this is sourced. Now someone sells an item for 100 gold to an NPC merchant. Where does this gold come from? Is it not being sourced into the game? If it's not being sourced, then how? Please please please explain to me how it's not being sourced. Because after that item is sold in this hypothetical situation, the total amount of gold in all of ESO would rise to 1,300. Yet people keep saying that's not gold generation and they don't explain a valid reason how it's not. If selling to NPCs creates brand new gold into the game as if they were a printer, just the same as quests and looting do, that's quite literally a source of gold. This is the focus of all my thinking about this.

I've already gotten a lot of my answers, but this one I'm still not getting. To me what's going on in the event is that this source is being excluded for reasons, but I cannot yet see NPC selling as plainly just not being a source of gold when held up to that hypothetical explanation.

LaintalAy

furiouslog wrote: »

I love these arguments that go like this:

A: Hey, this thing does not make sense to me! Shouldn't it be like X?

B: No, that thing is explicitly defined as Y.

A: Well wait, I think it should be like X, right? Why should it be Y?

B: Well, it is Y, by design, and here are the reasons.

A: Yeah, but it makes more sense to me if it's X, so shouldn't it be X?

B: *bangs head on keyboard*

C: *makes meta post describing frustration with quality of forum posts*

I think I found the 'C' post.

LaintalAy

<snippety-snip>Where does this gold come from?<snip-snip>

As I said:

It has always been gold that 'drops' when you 'loot' something during these events.

It's the FREE gold

There's some in dead bodies.
There's some in treasure chests.
Probably other places that I can't remember.

Selling something to a merchant isn't gold that 'drops'. it's gold that is exchanged for something else.
Looting the box behind the merchant will give you more objects to sell and usually, some gold will 'drop' from those as well.

Are you seeing what drops when you loot or harvest things?
Bottom right-hand corner of the screen. It's the gold that appears there that is increased.

There's a checkbox somewhere in settings, if you aren't seeing it.

LunaFlora

Malyore wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

By the way the event post says:
"+100% gold earned from monster kills, quest rewards, and similar sources"

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/66063

so it is already quite clear.

Where was this at? I was going based off of the one from the games homepage when you log in. Did you find the webpage just by searching for it, or was it posted somewhere? I'm on Sony.

i got it from the eso website.
it was linked in this post.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/659012/official-discussion-thread-for-enjoy-bonus-gold-xp-more-as-the-explorers-celebration-returns

which is on the same website we are posting on.

i also play eso on PlayStation, but the forums aren't in-game.

Malyore

LaintalAy wrote: »

<snippety-snip>Where does this gold come from?<snip-snip>

As I said:

It has always been gold that 'drops' when you 'loot' something during these events.

It's the FREE gold

There's some in dead bodies.
There's some in treasure chests.
Probably other places that I can't remember.

Selling something to a merchant isn't gold that 'drops'. it's gold that is exchanged for something else.
Looting the box behind the merchant will give you more objects to sell and usually, some gold will 'drop' from those as well.

Are you seeing what drops when you loot or harvest things?
Bottom right-hand corner of the screen. It's the gold that appears there that is increased.

There's a checkbox somewhere in settings, if you aren't seeing it.

It's not just the loot gold, but also reward gold. The gold from crafting surveys is not freely looted, it's a reward for providing items you made. Yet that gold is boosted too.

LunaFlora wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

By the way the event post says:
"+100% gold earned from monster kills, quest rewards, and similar sources"

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/66063

so it is already quite clear.

Where was this at? I was going based off of the one from the games homepage when you log in. Did you find the webpage just by searching for it, or was it posted somewhere? I'm on Sony.

i got it from the eso website.
it was linked in this post.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/659012/official-discussion-thread-for-enjoy-bonus-gold-xp-more-as-the-explorers-celebration-returns

which is on the same website we are posting on.

i also play eso on PlayStation, but the forums aren't in-game.

And gotcha. I was going based off of yeah the announcement page when you first log in to ESO on PlayStation. Speaking of sources, that was the source of my initial confusion. Strange how it's worded differently than the website. Thanks for all the links