Do you agree that ESO is "the equivalent of more than 10 single player games"

Paulytnz · May 21

So, my question or questions really are, do you personally agree with these 2 statements about ESO:

1 - "That's the equivalent of more than 10 single player games coming out one right after another"

2 - "ESO is, of course, a multiplayer game, but it releases yearly updates that have historically trended toward roughly 30 hours of new story content - which is indeed right in line with most single-player AAA releases"

For full context, this is from a semi interview I guess from someone I have never heard of with narrative director Bill Slavicsek.

The full thing (which is not really much - 2 min read) can be found here:

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/entertainment/other/elder-scrolls-online-lead-says-we-re-the-most-prolific-aaa-game-studio-after-making-an-mmo-that-s-the-equivalent-of-more-than-10-single-player-games/ar-BB1mJPeh?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=91c7f87fac9643acb9a7d012ff4d3674&ei=101

When I read it, I didn't really know what to think, but something felt at least a "little" off about it. I am really interested to know what others here, who are not from my country and who would likely never get to see this thing otherwise; would think of it.

Nisekev · May 21

Nope, even if compared with modern AAA decline.

EdjeSwift · May 21

Objectively. they're not too far off the mark actually. Looking at https://howlongtobeat.com/ shows that a lot of games hover around that 20-30 hour mark for the Main Story, some other AAA games lower. For me when I clicked on the search box and brought up their "directory" on the first page of the 20 games there, many AAA releases, only 5 broke 40 hours, the rest were 32 or lower, with some surprises being so "short" when you consider the main story time to beat only.

The rest of the article is puffery, but statistically, they CAN make that claim.

GeneralGrundmann · May 21

I totally agree!

Of course, it depends on what you are doing ingame.

Do you play only each zone's main story quests, you might have less playtime than ten single player games.

Doing *everything* in each zone and it might be more playtime than ten single player games.

As always, your mileage may vary.

bmnoble · May 21

Depends on the person, I would say on average I put anywhere between 20 - 300+ hrs, in individual single player games.

In ESO, I am nearing the 5000 hr mark, and I am a player that doesn't do much group stuff and barely any PVP.

That all said and even with those hours spent in game, in my opinion I would say it's not the equivalent of 10 single player games, maybe if they had released as much as the base game year after year but trying to pass off expansion packs/DLC as the equivalent of multiple full games worth of story content seems like one heck of an exaggeration to me.

SkaraMinoc · May 21

Singleplayer games take anywhere from 2 hours to 40+ hours to complete. Even with 10 games, 400 hours isn't anywhere near what it takes to complete all ESO quests, storylines, dungeons, etc.

Haenk · May 21

I certainly have clocked more than 1000 hours on Civilization V, probably the same on IV. Same is true for Forza Horizon and Forza Motorsport (which I play solo, though technically they offer multiplayer support). Never buy a maximum-priced game that offers only a couple dozens of hours gameplay.

ESO offers really a lot for the money, 10 years later, I'm just completing some Craglorn stuff I'm missing (group content)...

spartaxoxo · May 21

Yes. The shorter games but definitely the case. I suspect that's only if you count the years with small zone dlc though. I doubt the chapters are on their own. But I could be wrong.

colossalvoids · May 21

Depends how you measure it, quant over quality it's surely the case. But let me be positive and say that encounter team actually did multiple game's effort already throughout the game same as most designers involved did also. I don't like any comparisons between mmo and other games, especially sp ones, don't think those make much sense because different scales, goals, environments - everything literally.

Four_Fingers · May 21

IDK there seems to be a lot more repetition to farm rewards in ESO than single player games due to being an MMO.

Araneae6537 · May 21

In a single player game, I would absolutely demand more choices, at least in dialogue, if not in how to complete the quest. Single player games I’ve loved are TES III Morrowind and the Dragon Age series. I’d be beyond thrilled if that was a much greater element in ESO as well, but almost no MMO does. SWTOR does to the point that I would say that it’s the equivalent of single player games (at that was the part of the game I loved, the MMO aspect was too much the grindy never-ending WoW-style treadmill last I played).

Sometimes I get that feeling in side quests, like Summerset, where I’m figuring things out, and feel a part of the story and its outcome. The overarching quests are more like a story you are told/observe but are not a pivotal piece in, which is fine in an MMO and can still be fun, and would be much more fun if the there were difficulty options or the quest fights actually scaled, would feel more engaging and like my character was actually needed for something.

So ESO is a different type of game which I play mostly for a different experience than I would a single player, and also has MMO aspects that I enjoy, challenging group content, and I love the housing, whereas in other MMOs and what few single player games I’ve played with some version, it was much too limited to be of any interest (Skyrim, for instance, everything come pre-built and pre-placed, totally pointless)

amig186 · May 21

No, 1 chapter is in no way equal to 1 game. Even less so if we're talking about the usual Bethesda games, which are huge. Additionally, single player games don't need artificial longevity in the form of grinding. I'd day ESO has as much content as maybe 3-4 typical single player sandbox RPGs, but it lacks the gameplay variety that they would have. Honestly I'm not sure why they'd make such a comparison in the first place.

Elsonso · May 21

Paulytnz wrote: »

1 - "That's the equivalent of more than 10 single player games coming out one right after another"

2 - "ESO is, of course, a multiplayer game, but it releases yearly updates that have historically trended toward roughly 30 hours of new story content - which is indeed right in line with most single-player AAA releases"

When I read it, I didn't really know what to think, but something felt at least a "little" off about it. I am really interested to know what others here, who are not from my country and who would likely never get to see this thing otherwise; would think of it.

Hmm. 10 single player games? Sure, I can see that, especially when you consider the stage is cumulative. Maybe not 10 block buster games, like Skyrim, Witcher 3, or Cyberpunk, but for an average entry into the field. I will get heat for this, but I think that the better ESO Chapters are quite comparable in story value to games like Starfield.

What I do not agree with, and is not mentioned by the OP, is this:

"...they all have a certain level of quality that's just not found anywhere else. We're proud of that."

Internally, ESO stories are good. They tend to be very linear, so when playing them the story unfolds exactly as the development team wants, telling the one story that they want to tell. They also tend to be predictable, which means that before we get to the big "plot twist", it is expected. I would not say that this makes them have a level of quality that is not found anywhere else. I think it makes them good, but with average effort.

As a collection of stories, ESO is not that good. The lack of direction becomes obvious when the stories are stacked up and taken as a whole. They needed to spend a LOT more time thinking about the consequences of what they were doing, and taking steps to make the whole story, every chapter combined with the base game, a masterpiece. As it is, the collection is several disjointed stories that have problems with continuity and anachronisms.

TaSheen · May 21

I fully agree. This game has kept me happy for 7 years. Now, admittedly, I still play Skyrim and Oblivion - but I don't even look at other games, because they just have no interest for me. This (TES) is my universe, and I will live in it forever (or, well, as long as I'm alive to play in it...)

freespirit · May 21

There are a few single player games I've spent over(some quite a lot over) 1000 hours in each.

ESO I've spent over 25,000 hours and counting.....

They may have a point!!

Desiato · May 21

No, it's more like a single game with 9 years of expensive DLCs -- which is actually the case.

Each new chapter dlc contains one or two new overland zones. And the ones that have two include have the content of one spread across two.

How many did the original base game include? 16 plus 3 starter zones, plus Cyrodiil?

Sometimes a chapter dlc may include a new feature, guild or class, but the original game included 4 classes, 2 guilds and too many features to count.

Also, some of the content included in chapters and DLCs was developed, at least in part, at the same time as the base game.

On top of all of this, the original plan for the game included more frequent content updates included as part of the sub with no mention of chapters at all.

freespirit · May 21

I agree that Chapters would struggle to offer the playtime of a good single player game however......

I disagree that they are too expensive especially when compared to the cost of a AAA single player game these days.

I paid way more for say Witcher 3(and that was years ago)and take a look how much the pretty much "annual" Skyrim Special Edition costs, now chapters definitely have more content than that!! 🤣

Desiato · May 21

freespirit wrote: »

I agree that Chapters would struggle to offer the playtime of a good single player game however......

I disagree that they are too expensive especially when compared to the cost of a AAA single player game these days.

I paid way more for say Witcher 3(and that was years ago)and take a look how much the pretty much "annual" Skyrim Special Edition costs, now chapters definitely have more content than that!! 🤣

Value is completely subjective. Obviously most of us feel ESO is worth what we spend or we wouldn't play it. Chapters are objectively expensive compared to most game DLC.

Also the play time dynamics between single player and multiplayer games is completely different. We accept things in MMOs we'd never accept in a single player game because of the social dynamics.

The point is it's not the same as 10 independently developed single player games. That's just marketing spin.

Ragnarok0130 · May 21

No I don't because we are comparing apples and oranges here. MMOs cannot be objectively compared with single player RPGS or any other genre. Especially not the TES single player games which take much longer to make than any of the ESO expansions. A legitimate comparison would be MMO compared to MMO.

Soarora · May 21

I disagree because single player games are different. Different graphics, different mod capabilities, different timelines, different heros, etc. ESO is just ESO no matter how you cut it. Its good for its purpose— letting us see areas the main line TES games haven’t gotten us to yet. But it’s just that, a spin-off. ESO will never be a main line TES game and it certainly does not feel like each Chapter has the same content as one. Chapters take me 2-3 days, with additional quests taking probably 2-3 days as well, meaning I can finish all the quests in a Chapter in the span of a week if I tried. Never completed any single player game that fast, not even non TES ones.

AcadianPaladin · May 21

I'd say yes. My elf and I spent 4000 hours in Oblivion before it really felt too small. Then we learned time travel and went to Skyrim. After 4000 hours there, it also felt too small. So we traveled back in time to the 2nd Era and ESO. Currently have about 12,000 hours in ESO with no end in sight. Not only does the mass and scale dwarf Oblivion and Skyrim combined, but there is almost an endless selection of daily repeatable quests. Then there is the dynamic nature of a changing world and frequent events in game. As a PvE soloist, I find ESO makes up for the downside (in my mind) that the game is multiplayer.

AzuraFan · May 21

I agree with the first statement. There's a huge amount of exploration and story content available. Then there's group content, as well. Plus other activities for those so inclined.

I don't agree with the second statement. I think it used to be true, but now that they've given up on the Q4 story content, no. And honestly, the annual chapter doesn't take 30 hours to do. I'd say more like 15. There's WAY less story content released per year than there used to be.

Of course, there's other content released in each annual chapter. New leads, usually some type of new system, etc. But story content taking 30 hours? No. Not even close.

spartaxoxo · May 21

AzuraFan wrote: »

I agree with the first statement. There's a huge amount of exploration and story content available. Then there's group content, as well. Plus other activities for those so inclined.

I don't agree with the second statement. I think it used to be true, but now that they've given up on the Q4 story content, no. And honestly, the annual chapter doesn't take 30 hours to do. I'd say more like 15. There's WAY less story content released per year than there used to be.

Of course, there's other content released in each annual chapter. New leads, usually some type of new system, etc. But story content taking 30 hours? No. Not even close.

I think that's why they used the phrase "historically," because that amount of questing is history. LOL

LunaFlora · May 21

yes i do agree

Zodiarkslayer · May 21

The importance of the 30h mark is massively overrated. And only counting main quests is straight up stupid.

If a game cannot entice a player to linger, then it is not a good game. AAA or not.

I_killed_Vivec · May 21

The base game is big, I suppose each of the three alliances could constitute a game each.

But after that, even Craglorn and Wrothgar seem more like ES game expansion packs. You go somewhere new, there's a main quest and some side quests, and that's about it. Give or take ToT and antiquities.

SeaGtGruff · May 21

Sizewise, yes, I think the amount of geographical territory that's available to explore and play through is equal to perhaps 10 individual single-player games.

Alpheu5 · May 21

30 hours of story content if you roleplay-walk everywhere and listen to every dialogue tree, maybe.

No way I'd consider the current iteration of ESO a whopping 10 feature-complete singleplayer games in one. 1 for the base and 2 for the combined DLCs and chapters.

A lot of the time comes from running repeatable content with friends or randoms. Take ESO offline and you're left with a lackluster quest system that takes the "RP" out of "RPG" and a combat system filled with elements that needlessly demand dozens to hundreds of hours to individually complete.

Necrotech_Master · May 21

i would say the dlc releases are far less than 30 hours, unless you account for ALL of the side activities

if its only main story of the dlc thats like maybe 10 hours tops even listening to all of the dialog, doing all of the extra stuff is like 40 hours worth lol

single player games vary hugely with me depending on how much i enjoyed it, some i was able to beat in like 2 hours and never continued playing them, others ive put up 100s of hours

in comparison to elder scrolls though, this game ive gotten ~7000 hours on just my main character, and ~3000+ hours across all my other characters (possibly more, i havent ever done a full total of the number of hours in here but i would expect it to be ~10,000)

Paramedicus · May 21

Yes*

*If you think that a 500-episode soap opera is equivalent to 10 series like Breaking Bad

LaintalAy · May 21

Paulytnz wrote: »

So, my question or questions really are, do you personally agree with these 2 statements about ESO:

1 - "That's the equivalent of more than 10 single player games coming out one right after another"

2 - "ESO is, of course, a multiplayer game, but it releases yearly updates that have historically trended toward roughly 30 hours of new story content - which is indeed right in line with most single-player AAA releases"

snip

1. No.
2. No.

The questions ignore how DLC was released and was changed to include 'chapters' mid-stream.
The questions are therefore out of context.

The article is just an ad for "GOLD ROAD".