Should the vampire be completely redesigned?

KaironBlackbard

No

For they who want a more skyrim like vampire lord thing, here is my idea:
https://sites.google.com/view/ideascompilationforeso/ideas-since-11012023/vampire-mk3-if-current-scion-is-mk2
Human form is listed beneath the Vampire Lord stuff.

TL;DR, there are a few spells you can use in human form, as well as more skyrim like vampire effects in both human and lord form.
The Ultimate turns you into a Scion, which will be sort of like Lycanthrope, but you have two bars instead of one.
Bar A: Magic and blood magic spells.
Bar B: Claws and Night powers.

In total, about 16 abilities. There might not be any purchasable passives due to the large amount of abilities. However, both human and scion form have both positive and negative passives. Some of which grow more potent at higher stages.

If they wish to go even more Skyrim-like and lock certain human form spells behind stage requirements, that's their prerogative.

DrNukenstein

Give players a strong reason to stay mortal and give werewolf competitive benefits, then vampire is fine.

mutually exclusive build decisions are great when the decision has multiple competitive options which is currently not the case at all in the vamp vs wolf vs mortal debate.

GrimStyx

Yes

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

For they who want a more skyrim like vampire lord thing, here is my idea:
https://sites.google.com/view/ideascompilationforeso/ideas-since-11012023/vampire-mk3-if-current-scion-is-mk2
Human form is listed beneath the Vampire Lord stuff.

TL;DR, there are a few spells you can use in human form, as well as more skyrim like vampire effects in both human and lord form.
The Ultimate turns you into a Scion, which will be sort of like Lycanthrope, but you have two bars instead of one.
Bar A: Magic and blood magic spells.
Bar B: Claws and Night powers.

In total, about 16 abilities. There might not be any purchasable passives due to the large amount of abilities. However, both human and scion form have both positive and negative passives. Some of which grow more potent at higher stages.

If they wish to go even more Skyrim-like and lock certain human form spells behind stage requirements, that's their prerogative.

Zos is unlikely to agree to this. I originally created the thread to simply draw the developers' attention to the vampire, with at least some hope that they would implement some of the solutions proposed by the players, but I don't count on anything global, despite the fact that a relatively large part of the players tend to vote for global reworking of the vampire. They have been asked many times to rework Necro, but this issue seems to go unaddressed.
And yes, I would really like the vampire to be played fully, like a werewolf, and not for the sake of some individual passives and skills.

KaironBlackbard

No

GrimStyx wrote: »

And yes, I would really like the vampire to be played fully, like a werewolf, and not for the sake of some individual passives and skills.

YES.

The whole reason is roleplay, just like in the single player games.

Do you play Skyrim?
As a Vamp Lord?
Do you ever send Giant flying into the air using Vampiric Grip?
That is so much fun!
If you viewed the page, did you see the morph idea?
It also has a bit of integrated balancing so people can't abuse it like Skyrim.
What do you think?

GrimStyx

Yes

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

And yes, I would really like the vampire to be played fully, like a werewolf, and not for the sake of some individual passives and skills.

YES.

The whole reason is roleplay, just like in the single player games.

Do you play Skyrim?
As a Vamp Lord?
Do you ever send Giant flying into the air using Vampiric Grip?
That is so much fun!
If you viewed the page, did you see the morph idea?
It also has a bit of integrated balancing so people can't abuse it like Skyrim.
What do you think?

Well, here the question of balance arises, Skyrim is still a single-player game and Zos hardly allows such fun in a multiplayer mmo, for example, werewolf has only 1 panel, although I would not refuse a scion with two panels for melee and ranged combat, but the question arises of how to maintain this form for a long time. lvl up of vampire abilities would also probably look good, I wouldn't also give up this idea either, exclusively in the form of a scion. As I wrote, Eviscerate would deal damage in front of you and inflict bleed status on all enemies hit, vampiric drain would evolve into a massive beam of vampiric energy, like the Fatecarver arcanist skill. Mesmerize would work as a charm, the opposite of fear, when enemies run away from you, here they would instead walk towards you charmed, and it would also deal damage to enemies. Perhaps it would be worth giving up Blood Frenzy and adding a spam skill to it, but for long-range combat.

Cronopoly

Yes

There is no VAMPIRE, the class is called UNDEATH, with a minor in Vampiness. Sorta ass-backwards to be blunt.

P.S I just want to float when walking to be honest.

KaironBlackbard

No

With my more skyrim version, I did try to apply balancing like there are with normal class skills.
Also, Eviscerate doesn't exist there, because it's more Skyrim like.
However, there is a melee mode skill called Poison Claws, which would work similar to DK's Poison Talons and have a couple morphs.
Most skills aren't spammables, besides poison claws. Like in Skyrim, the spells are additional effects to aid you in Combat.
Stuns, paralysis, summoning, corpse consumer summoner, pull/throw ability, dash, etc.

KaironBlackbard

No

I wish there was an editor in the PTS so we could make ideas and submit them for review.
I'd make this idea and see what they think of it.
Solo instance use only.

Kind of like Scribing, but also not. With the ability to make broken abilities, but of course if they accept it they'd balance it as needed.

I would try to make them balanced, but there's always something that I might not balance, either by underpowering or overpowering.

xylena_lazarow

Yes

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Give players a strong reason to stay mortal and give werewolf competitive benefits, then vampire is fine.

Good point, we used to have op health regen to compete with op Undeath, so it seemed less obnoxious back then.

ToRelax

Eviscerate Undeath already.

To make players commit to vampirism, the active abilities must be the main draw.

GrimStyx

Yes

ToRelax wrote: »

Eviscerate Undeath already.

To make players commit to vampirism, the active abilities must be the main draw.

I agree, but then Zos needs to redo these very active abilities, I do not insist on a radical change, but at the moment most of them are not very competitive

Arcturus

Yes

I won't stop insisting on a full vampire rework in the forums until we AT LEAST get a Vampire Lord transformation and not a reskinned goliath.

And for the love of Mara, make new vampire stage skins and fix the tats. Crown store or not, I don't care.

Amottica

No

GrimStyx wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

The only thing that really needs changing is the undeath passive. It’s a relic of the past from when major protection gave 30% mitigation. The fact that 99% of players in PvP are forced to use it should make it clear to ZOS that it needs to be rebalanced. I think the very tanky meta that has existed for years now is due in large part to that one passive.. also the increase in ability costs associated with vampire causes players to need to build for more sustain where they could be building into damage, which further exacerbates the time to kill issue.

The problem is not that this is meta, but why it is meta, developers need to work on the cause and not on the effect, but the fact is that there are no other alternatives that increase survivability other than vampirism, if previously it was possible to accelerate health regeneration to decent values ​​in pvp zones, now due to morale it’s impossible to do this normally, moreover, heavy armor does not give any penalties for dd, so you can use it to the fullest, and plus you get bonus from undeath, you’ll kill noobs anyway, but serious ones the players will be just as fat and with good damage, but at the same time they won’t do anything to you, just as you won’t do anything to them, and such fights can drag on forever. sustain Wretched + some good stat sets, undeath, and heavy armor 4-5, and you unkillable tank with huge sustain, self heal, and damage, so the reason is not only undeath, which is far from being the key in this situation, but a huge balance hole

Something is either good, or it is not good. It is either beneficial or not. Like before Zenimax did a major rework, the vampire was beneficial and still is. So unless they were to make it unappealing, it would still be beneficial if they reworked it again.

Even as described in the post I quoted, an unkillable tank does not come down to the tank being a vampire. It comes down to a whole host of things. So vampires are clearly not the problem, and I only have to look so far as the post above to make that point clear.

KaironBlackbard

No

Arcturus wrote: »

I won't stop insisting on a full vampire rework in the forums until we AT LEAST get a Vampire Lord transformation and not a reskinned goliath.

And for the love of Mara, make new vampire stage skins and fix the tats. Crown store or not, I don't care.

@Arcturus
What could they possibly do to do as you are requesting?
Also, how is it a reskin of Bone Goliath?

Goliath: +30k max HP
Scion: see enemies through walls, heal for 15% of all the damage you do, gain +10k to each Max Stamina, Max Magicka, and Max HP
I see a big difference already
Those are not morphed either. Add morphs, even bigger difference.

---

I do agree on the "fix the tats" part. Paints shouldn't get paled by vamp stages.

KaironBlackbard

No

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Give players a strong reason to stay mortal and give werewolf competitive benefits, then vampire is fine.

Good point, we used to have op health regen to compete with op Undeath, so it seemed less obnoxious back then.

Yeah, bring back mortal's health regen and everyone will be alright.
When no one has health regen, everyone loses.
When only vamps miss out on health regen, it's more balanced.
I'd be fine with that honestly.
Although, I don't truly agree with losing ALL my regen at stage 4.
In skyrim, there were three differences there.

1. That price was only during the day, in sunlight.
2. That price applied not only to health regen but also to Mag and Stam as well.
3. It was 15% per stage, topping 60% at stage 4.

Issues:

1. ESO's night-day cycle is so slow no one really notices it. Most of us only play during the times when it's day in game. So, this makes it ok if it's flatly at all times. Although, I would like to get recoveries back from entering a building or cave, like Skyrim. A simple, if day then penalty active, if night or in certain locations then penalty deactive, sort of thing.
2. Mag and Stam regen was a pain in skyrim, although in ESO we have many extra ways to restore it.
3. I feel was better. Bring the numbers back to skyrim standards. Lose 15% recovery per stage, making 60% recovery loss at stage 4.

Elyu

Partially rework

Vampire cons:

Bad synergy with health regen
Undeath being mandatory for PvP
Getting stronger if you take more damage seems anti-lore
Experienced groups can just use the benefit without any downside (e.g. massive ulti building during trial boss invulnerable)

Vampire pros:

I've seen some really cool builds utilising the vamp skill "simmering frenzy" for vet arena score runs or IA runs - builds that only work if you're really skilled - turning you into the quintessential glass cannon.

I think both vamp and WW need a serious redesign, but vamp is currently in a better place than WW.

GrimStyx

Yes

Elyu wrote: »

Vampire cons:

Bad synergy with health regen
Undeath being mandatory for PvP
Getting stronger if you take more damage seems anti-lore
Experienced groups can just use the benefit without any downside (e.g. massive ulti building during trial boss invulnerable)

Vampire pros:

I've seen some really cool builds utilising the vamp skill "simmering frenzy" for vet arena score runs or IA runs - builds that only work if you're really skilled - turning you into the quintessential glass cannon.

I think both vamp and WW need a serious redesign, but vamp is currently in a better place than WW.

"simmering frenzy" has been nerfed for a long time, now it doesn’t give such a strong boost to damage, before it was possible to overclock wpd/spd above 1000... now it’s a maximum of 400.

The maximum that players currently use is blood mist, Swarming Scion and Arterial Burst and the undeath passive itself. Tanks in PVE still use Exhilarating Drain, but making this ability so narrowly focused on a specific role and content seems wrong to me. Everything else is impractical and is used solely for roleplay, which is an indication that the vampire needs to be reworked.

I'd like it to fill its niche with the werewolf as a second alternative subclass, with its major sorcery/brutality and other basic buffs, and be played be self sufficient, and not just be another support tree like the Psijic tree

KaironBlackbard

No

Curses are solely for roleplay. Anyone using them otherwise needs to rethink their playstyle.
Also, why bother with the 22.5% resist at 25% health when you are taking 24% more fire damage?
The 30% doesn't kick in until you are below 5%, and normally you are dead before then.

Mathing... you get 0.3% per percentage of health missing.
Effectively you never top 27% before you die.
How is Undeath broken?
Literally only tanks get any use out of it.
Trying to use it as any other role is suicidal.
Too many Dragonknights spewing flame all over the battlefield.
That increased fire damage taken is too high a price for such low defence boost.
It's suicidal.

KaironBlackbard

No

Similar predicament with NB's Killer's Blade.
Up to 400% execute scaling, but effectively it doesn't top 300%-350% unless you are fighting something with a ton of health, like a boss.
If only they hit max effectiveness by the time the affected hits 25% health, then you'd actually get max effectiveness in more situations.
Know what I mean?

Edit: Mathing... 50% and lower... up to 400%... 8% damage boost per % target is missing... so it's 200% at 25%, ok that was obvious... 300% at 12.5%... 350% at 6.75%... The issue with these scalings is they never hit max effectiveness. They really should put a reach max effectiveness when affected is below certain HP marker. Like max effectiveness by the time the affected hits 25%. They need to do that.

GrimStyx

Yes

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Curses are solely for roleplay. Anyone using them otherwise needs to rethink their playstyle.
Also, why bother with the 22.5% resist at 25% health when you are taking 24% more fire damage?
The 30% doesn't kick in until you are below 5%, and normally you are dead before then.

Mathing... you get 0.3% per percentage of health missing.
Effectively you never top 27% before you die.
How is Undeath broken?
Literally only tanks get any use out of it.
Trying to use it as any other role is suicidal.
Too many Dragonknights spewing flame all over the battlefield.
That increased fire damage taken is too high a price for such low defence boost.
It's suicidal.

Why make curses playable only for roleplaying? As a well-rounded player, I want to feel the power, my own special gameplay when playing as a vampire, in all types of content. And what’s the point in killing unfortunate mobs that are already dying from just one touch of mine, it’s boring. I want a serious challenge and test where you would feel that you have mastered vampirism or lycanthropy so much (if that made sense) that you are able to create real dirt in hard pve and pvp content, and play fully, on equal terms with other classes or against them focusing your build and skill on your curse

GrimStyx

Yes

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Curses are solely for roleplay. Anyone using them otherwise needs to rethink their playstyle.
Also, why bother with the 22.5% resist at 25% health when you are taking 24% more fire damage?
The 30% doesn't kick in until you are below 5%, and normally you are dead before then.

Mathing... you get 0.3% per percentage of health missing.
Effectively you never top 27% before you die.
How is Undeath broken?
Literally only tanks get any use out of it.
Trying to use it as any other role is suicidal.
Too many Dragonknights spewing flame all over the battlefield.
That increased fire damage taken is too high a price for such low defence boost.
It's suicidal.

Well, by the way, I wrote that undeath work well against weak damage, but with a quick attack or massive stacks such as DoT or Bash damage. I even had cases when I survived solely thanks to undeath, the person lowered my health to 1-5% and simply could not cross this threshold to kill me, although he had enough damage to lower my health to a really extremely low value, because the passive started working at full capacity. And it even saved me against burst, leaving my health at 2%, which I definitely wouldn’t have survived without this passive.
Take into account a block that additionally reduces the damage dealt to you, high armored and conditional minor protection, and now you already have a lot of protection, and even if your entire defense is pierced, then you have an additional layer of insurance consisting of the undeath passive, which can bring your defense closer to the maximum allowable, even without being a tank in the usual sense. in addition, at 50% health, it already reduces the damage you receive by 15%, and this is actually a serious value if we take into account the fact that you are already well armored

mmtaniac

Off course.

KaironBlackbard

No

@GrimStyx
Even so, I still haven't figured out an unkillable build yet.
Here's a theory that I can't test because I don't have Summerset:
Meditate (Psijic Channel) + Deliberation (30% mit during psijic channel) + Light of Cyrodiil (15% during channel) + High Elf (5% during channel) = either 50% mitigation (additive) or x0.56525 damage taken (multiplicative) (43.475% mitigation)
I honestly hope it's additive.
Nightblade: Revealing Flare slotted (Major Protection), Dark Cloak slotted on either bar (Minor Protection), 15%. Those two are additive together.
Added Bonus: Concealed Weapon on either bar (Minor Expedition)
Alternatively, you could slot Temporal Guard (Morph of Undo {Psijic Ult}) to get Minor Protection while slotted on any class.
Necromancer's Bitter Harvest reduces damage taken by 3% while slotted. Stacked with Flare and Temporal Guard that should make 18% instead of just 15...
Necro can also reduce damage taken from DoT by 15% while a Bone Tyrant ability is active. Not adding that below for now.

Light set that decreases damage from players by 10% as it's 5th perk (Edit: It's Buffer of the Swift), and the CP reducing damage from NPCs by 10%, make 10% reduced damage taken from everything.
4 warfare slotteds, reducing single target and area damage taken, and reducing direct and DoT damage taken, totalling 12% mitigation. If you want to swap one for Cutting Defence, that's up to you. Damage dealer would go Reaving Blows as well.
Passive CPs, Reduce Martial and Magic damage taken by 2%.

I feel like I'm missing one, or a few, CPs.

Current stats: 50% gear and race and psijic (playstyle), 15% skills (18% Necro), 22% 24% CP and gear. 87% 89% (90% 92% Necro).
Huh, one of my last math runs did manage to get it over 100%... I'm missing something.

Light armor doesn't really top 12k-16k. At 16k it's 25% resistance, as long as they don't penetrate through it. It seems like even enemy tanks have over 45k penetration these days.

My tank has 42k armor and they cut through him as if he doesn't have any.

Siphoning Strikes paired with cutting defence will give you even more healing per second, as long as they attack you within 7 meters.
Morph can grant extreme more healing or resource restore.

I thought Arcanist had something similar, an ability that gave them defence either per crux spent or per crux active?
Found it: Runic Jolt, reduce damage taken by 2% per active crux. 3 crux makes 6%.
Pair with Cruxweaver Armor to generate crux when you take damage while its active.

So, Arcanist instead, 21% in skills. 93% 95% total.

I feel like I'm missing some CPs. Passive ones probably.
Oh, right, reduce magic and martial damage taken by 2%. Editing...
Ok, still missing something. Oh, maybe it was Evasion or the Trials defensive perk... Doesn't really help with PvP or single target damage though.
But, Oakensoul does give the Minor defensive dungeon/trials perk, which would make 100% Arcanist in dungeons and trials.

Edit: Found another CP: Juggernaut: When under CCI, reduce damage taken by 5%. Fitness tree. 100% Arcanist everywhere. Theoretically.

Theory Build
Meditate, Runic Jolt, Cruxweaver Armor, Revealing Flare, Radiant Magelight, Temporal Guard. Deliberation passive.
Light of Cyrodiil, Buffer of the Swift, possibly Oakensoul.
High Elf race.
To be continued...

CPs
Warfare
Duelist's Rebuff: Slotted, Single Target
Elemental Aegis: Passive, Magic
Enduring Resolve: Slotted, DoT (I'd probably swap for Cutting Defence)
Hardy: Passive, Martial
Ironclad: Slotted, Direct
Preparation: Passive, NPCs
Unassailable: Slotted, AoE (Alternative to swap for Cutting Defence)

CPs
Fitness
Juggernaut: Slotted, Global during CCI
Pain's Refuge: Slotted, defence for negative effects on you
Hardened: Slotted, CCI Duration
Fortified: Slotted, Extra Armor
Piercing Gaze: Passive, stealth detection boost
Spirit Mastery: Slotted, revive time 33% faster
Celerity: Slotted, 10% more speed
5 slotteds listed, you can only have 4 at a time.

Alternative for Buffer: Bastion of the Heartland. Reduce damage taken from players by 3% (instead of 10%.) Reduce damage taken from Siege Weapons and Player AoEs by 10%. 7 points less effective against player single target damage, but 3 points more effective against their AoEs. I'd probably go with buffer.

Other than the fire damage taken increase, Undeath might help against everything else if you still aren't completely immune.
I'd still avoid vampirism with this setup though.

KaironBlackbard

No

What would you think if Vampirism had no purchasable passives, but instead had this:

• Reduce the area you can be detected while sneaking and cost of sneak by 25%
• Reduce the cost of illusion spells by 25% (Needs to be converted to ESO but I don't really know how...)
• Resist Frost 20%/30%/40%/50%
• Weakness to Fire 20%/30%/40%/50%
• Vampiric Strength: Melee/Unarmed damage boost 5%/10%/15%/20%
• Weakness to Sunlight: Reduce Recoveries by 15%/30%/45%/60%

I think it'd be cool. I would miss Unnatural Movement though.
BTW: the A/B/C/D is Stage1/Stage2/Stage3/Stage4

GrimStyx

Yes

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

@GrimStyx
Even so, I still haven't figured out an unkillable build yet.
Here's a theory that I can't test because I don't have Summerset:
Meditate (Psijic Channel) + Deliberation (30% mit during psijic channel) + Light of Cyrodiil (15% during channel) + High Elf (5% during channel) = either 50% mitigation (additive) or x0.56525 damage taken (multiplicative) (43.475% mitigation)
I honestly hope it's additive.
Nightblade: Revealing Flare slotted (Major Protection), Dark Cloak slotted on either bar (Minor Protection), 15%. Those two are additive together.
Added Bonus: Concealed Weapon on either bar (Minor Expedition)
Alternatively, you could slot Temporal Guard (Morph of Undo {Psijic Ult}) to get Minor Protection while slotted on any class.
Necromancer's Bitter Harvest reduces damage taken by 3% while slotted. Stacked with Flare and Temporal Guard that should make 18% instead of just 15...
Necro can also reduce damage taken from DoT by 15% while a Bone Tyrant ability is active. Not adding that below for now.

Light set that decreases damage from players by 10% as it's 5th perk (Edit: It's Buffer of the Swift), and the CP reducing damage from NPCs by 10%, make 10% reduced damage taken from everything.
4 warfare slotteds, reducing single target and area damage taken, and reducing direct and DoT damage taken, totalling 12% mitigation. If you want to swap one for Cutting Defence, that's up to you. Damage dealer would go Reaving Blows as well.
Passive CPs, Reduce Martial and Magic damage taken by 2%.

I feel like I'm missing one, or a few, CPs.

Current stats: 50% gear and race and psijic (playstyle), 15% skills (18% Necro), 22% 24% CP and gear. 87% 89% (90% 92% Necro).
Huh, one of my last math runs did manage to get it over 100%... I'm missing something.

Light armor doesn't really top 12k-16k. At 16k it's 25% resistance, as long as they don't penetrate through it. It seems like even enemy tanks have over 45k penetration these days.

My tank has 42k armor and they cut through him as if he doesn't have any.

Siphoning Strikes paired with cutting defence will give you even more healing per second, as long as they attack you within 7 meters.
Morph can grant extreme more healing or resource restore.

I thought Arcanist had something similar, an ability that gave them defence either per crux spent or per crux active?
Found it: Runic Jolt, reduce damage taken by 2% per active crux. 3 crux makes 6%.
Pair with Cruxweaver Armor to generate crux when you take damage while its active.

So, Arcanist instead, 21% in skills. 93% 95% total.

I feel like I'm missing some CPs. Passive ones probably.
Oh, right, reduce magic and martial damage taken by 2%. Editing...
Ok, still missing something. Oh, maybe it was Evasion or the Trials defensive perk... Doesn't really help with PvP or single target damage though.
But, Oakensoul does give the Minor defensive dungeon/trials perk, which would make 100% Arcanist in dungeons and trials.

Edit: Found another CP: Juggernaut: When under CCI, reduce damage taken by 5%. Fitness tree. 100% Arcanist everywhere. Theoretically.

Theory Build
Meditate, Runic Jolt, Cruxweaver Armor, Revealing Flare, Radiant Magelight, Temporal Guard. Deliberation passive.
Light of Cyrodiil, Buffer of the Swift, possibly Oakensoul.
High Elf race.
To be continued...

CPs
Warfare
Duelist's Rebuff: Slotted, Single Target
Elemental Aegis: Passive, Magic
Enduring Resolve: Slotted, DoT (I'd probably swap for Cutting Defence)
Hardy: Passive, Martial
Ironclad: Slotted, Direct
Preparation: Passive, NPCs
Unassailable: Slotted, AoE (Alternative to swap for Cutting Defence)

CPs
Fitness
Juggernaut: Slotted, Global during CCI
Pain's Refuge: Slotted, defence for negative effects on you
Hardened: Slotted, CCI Duration
Fortified: Slotted, Extra Armor
Piercing Gaze: Passive, stealth detection boost
Spirit Mastery: Slotted, revive time 33% faster
Celerity: Slotted, 10% more speed
5 slotteds listed, you can only have 4 at a time.

Alternative for Buffer: Bastion of the Heartland. Reduce damage taken from players by 3% (instead of 10%.) Reduce damage taken from Siege Weapons and Player AoEs by 10%. 7 points less effective against player single target damage, but 3 points more effective against their AoEs. I'd probably go with buffer.

Other than the fire damage taken increase, Undeath might help against everything else if you still aren't completely immune.
I'd still avoid vampirism with this setup though.

Personally, I run with 3 heavy, 2 light, 2 medium, you can add more heavy armor if you need more protection, but that's enough for me, for the most part.

Wretched vitality for back bar is amazing (meta)

For Main Willpower or Wrath of the Imperium

Next some good mythic, personally I use Markyn

And any other cool set for the body, here you can choose what you want, I run with Soulcleaver, Heartland Conqueror will probably be cool too
And we polish everything undeath
In total, you have good protection, overclocked wpd/spd and just great sustain
You also can change Shadowy to Dark Cloak if you want ever more heal and protection

And only two skills from the vampire branch that are useful for me are mist and undeath passive, the rest are kind of nah. The vampire's ultimate is too expensive, so i don't use it, and it's easy to kite you, perhaps if perfect scion would cost somewhere around 170 points, it would change the situation, and so, you can find skills that are clearly more useful than most of the skills presented in the vampire branch

GrimStyx

Yes

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

What would you think if Vampirism had no purchasable passives, but instead had this:

• Reduce the area you can be detected while sneaking and cost of sneak by 25%
• Reduce the cost of illusion spells by 25% (Needs to be converted to ESO but I don't really know how...)
• Resist Frost 20%/30%/40%/50%
• Weakness to Fire 20%/30%/40%/50%
• Vampiric Strength: Melee/Unarmed damage boost 5%/10%/15%/20%
• Weakness to Sunlight: Reduce Recoveries by 15%/30%/45%/60%

I think it'd be cool. I would miss Unnatural Movement though.
BTW: the A/B/C/D is Stage1/Stage2/Stage3/Stage4

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

What would you think if Vampirism had no purchasable passives, but instead had this:

• Reduce the area you can be detected while sneaking and cost of sneak by 25%
• Reduce the cost of illusion spells by 25% (Needs to be converted to ESO but I don't really know how...)
• Resist Frost 20%/30%/40%/50%
• Weakness to Fire 20%/30%/40%/50%
• Vampiric Strength: Melee/Unarmed damage boost 5%/10%/15%/20%
• Weakness to Sunlight: Reduce Recoveries by 15%/30%/45%/60%

I think it'd be cool. I would miss Unnatural Movement though.
BTW: the A/B/C/D is Stage1/Stage2/Stage3/Stage4

The percentages for fire damage and cold protection are too high, I would change to 25%, this is an MMO after all, not a solo game

the increase in damage in melee is also too high, and again it ties you to melee combat, for example, I practically don’t play melee combat, and if I do, I play at most on a templar, or combine ranged and melee, with a priority to ranged.

I don’t understand what it has to do with illusions and a vampire. This is a vampire branch, you need to buff it, not illusions. Moreover, the game does not yet have an illusionist class, and it would be strange to give an advantage in vampirism to it.

I agree about the percentage of regeneration, but we need to clarify this reduction in health regeneration or all resources.
Now, even though there are enough resources for almost everything, thanks to the same wretched vitality, but nevertheless, any interference in the precarious balance of resource recovery or the cost of abilities greatly affects players with vampirism, and reduces the regeneration of stamina or magic, or increasing their cost is a bad decision, taking into account the fact that the vampire branch does not offer its own truly practical and strong abilities, but is simply a set for patching up holes in the problems of the class and build, the abilities of which are disgustingly combined with each other

And even more so, I don’t understand at all why a vampire needs a sneak buff in a practical sense, we are again going back to making an impractical rollplay out of the vampire branch, instead of giving him good combat buffs, like a werewolf, although even there players argue about that the werewolf is weak and unpopular.
Role-players already finded something to do with a reworked branch, the main thing is to give them good effects, but in a real game, without the practical power of skills, the branch becomes dead and useless to anyone

GrimStyx

Yes

about Unnatural Movement, it needs a major and minor expedition buff, when sprinting, and invisibility after 1 second, then I won’t have anything against such a passive skill at stage 4. Or invisibility can be replaced with some other special effect, for example blur, where you cannot be targeted, but the blurred silhouette and air flows from high speed will be visible. The blur will go away, as will invisibility, if you get damaged by undirected attack

KaironBlackbard

No

GrimStyx wrote: »

The percentages for fire damage and cold protection are too high, I would change to 25%, this is an MMO after all, not a solo game

I pulled it directly from the Dawnguard Skyrim stats. It was even higher base game.

GrimStyx wrote: »

the increase in damage in melee is also too high, and again it ties you to melee combat, for example, I practically don’t play melee combat, and if I do, I play at most on a templar, or combine ranged and melee, with a priority to ranged.

Considering it comes with (relatively) OP spells, the melee boost is nothing.

GrimStyx wrote: »

I don’t understand what it has to do with illusions and a vampire. This is a vampire branch, you need to buff it, not illusions. Moreover, the game does not yet have an illusionist class, and it would be strange to give an advantage in vampirism to it.

Again, pulled from Skyrim. I honestly don't know how to translate that to ESO.

GrimStyx wrote: »

I agree about the percentage of regeneration, but we need to clarify this reduction in health regeneration or all resources.
Now, even though there are enough resources for almost everything, thanks to the same wretched vitality, but nevertheless, any interference in the precarious balance of resource recovery or the cost of abilities greatly affects players with vampirism, and reduces the regeneration of stamina or magic, or increasing their cost is a bad decision, taking into account the fact that the vampire branch does not offer its own truly practical and strong abilities, but is simply a set for patching up holes in the problems of the class and build, the abilities of which are disgustingly combined with each other

In Skyrim, it was all resources. I was going by that.
This whole thing was based off trying to turn the Vampire tree into the Vampire Lord from Skyrim, since that's what a Scion is by some degree.
Also turns Scion into more like werewolf.
You get a 5 human form vamp spells, the Scion/Revert Form Ultimate, and 10 Scion Form spells. Two Scion bars, one magic and one melee.
I tried to translate most of those abilities to ESO type.

GrimStyx wrote: »

And even more so, I don’t understand at all why a vampire needs a sneak buff in a practical sense, we are again going back to making an impractical rollplay out of the vampire branch, instead of giving him good combat buffs, like a werewolf, although even there players argue about that the werewolf is weak and unpopular.
Role-players already finded something to do with a reworked branch, the main thing is to give them good effects, but in a real game, without the practical power of skills, the branch becomes dead and useless to anyone

Vampires are experts at hiding in shadows, unlike mortals. And, that was me merging Skyrim's and ESO's version of the vampire sneak buff.
Although I think I forgot to add the ESO part where they ignore the movement speed penalty of sneak.

KaironBlackbard

No

GrimStyx wrote: »

about Unnatural Movement, it needs a major and minor expedition buff, when sprinting, and invisibility after 1 second, then I won’t have anything against such a passive skill at stage 4. Or invisibility can be replaced with some other special effect, for example blur, where you cannot be targeted, but the blurred silhouette and air flows from high speed will be visible. The blur will go away, as will invisibility, if you get damaged by undirected attack

Don't you dare remove my invisi-sprinting! I rely on that in PvE! Especially since I turned my cloak into Dark Cloak. Fun heal, but forces me to fight Everything when I can't invisi-sprint.
Although, I wouldn't mind the time to invisible being decreased, hastened. 3 seconds is... handleable. 6 seconds is murder. Wish it wasn't more than 5 for rank 1. I've got one Vamp who isn't high enough level to get rank 2 yet, so he's suffering a bit from that.
Also, I hate stairs.
Now, one alteration that would be fun, is this:
You can now sprint while invisible without losing it. This applies to other sources, such as Potions and NB cloak. Mostly potions.
I hate losing my invisibility when I start sprinting to proc Unnatural Movement. It shouldn't instantly remove it like that.

GrimStyx wrote: »

And even more so, I don’t understand at all why a vampire needs a sneak buff in a practical sense

Eating people requires stealth. If you aren't sneaky, you starve.

GrimStyx

Yes

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

about Unnatural Movement, it needs a major and minor expedition buff, when sprinting, and invisibility after 1 second, then I won’t have anything against such a passive skill at stage 4. Or invisibility can be replaced with some other special effect, for example blur, where you cannot be targeted, but the blurred silhouette and air flows from high speed will be visible. The blur will go away, as will invisibility, if you get damaged by undirected attack

Don't you dare remove my invisi-sprinting! I rely on that in PvE! Especially since I turned my cloak into Dark Cloak. Fun heal, but forces me to fight Everything when I can't invisi-sprint.
Although, I wouldn't mind the time to invisible being decreased, hastened. 3 seconds is... handleable. 6 seconds is murder. Wish it wasn't more than 5 for rank 1. I've got one Vamp who isn't high enough level to get rank 2 yet, so he's suffering a bit from that.
Also, I hate stairs.
Now, one alteration that would be fun, is this:
You can now sprint while invisible without losing it. This applies to other sources, such as Potions and NB cloak. Mostly potions.
I hate losing my invisibility when I start sprinting to proc Unnatural Movement. It shouldn't instantly remove it like that.

GrimStyx wrote: »

And even more so, I don’t understand at all why a vampire needs a sneak buff in a practical sense

Eating people requires stealth. If you aren't sneaky, you starve.

I did not suggest removing invisibility, I suggested significantly increasing the speed in the sprint by adding major and minor expedition to the passive, so that it really was an unnatural speed, as it is called, invisibility can be left and given time to accelerate in the sprint, 3 seconds, to get the expedition buff and invisibility


Regarding secrecy and drinking people blood... This very much depends on the capabilities of the vampire himself, his preferences in prey and position in the hierarchy and society. Someone will attack openly, someone will feed on servants, someone will sneak like a thief and drink the blood of those sleeping, someone will use deception, and such a connection with stealth and sneaks does not make much sense.
Because each vampire has their own methods of drinking blood. And it would be more logical to leave sneaks and stealth in the stars branch and the thieves guild with the brotherhood, especially since this is the rollplay branches, and give the vampire really useful battle abilities