Should the vampire be completely redesigned?

GrimStyx

My opinion is that the vampire needs to be reworked, all of his skills and passives were poorly thought out during creation, and they synergize terribly with each other, the vampire himself does not provide any unique gameplay, but is rather used as a “plug” for passive to survive in pvp, and for the sake of a couple of skills (evisceration and mist), in total 2 out of 5 active skill are playable in game realities, funny, but evisceration uses the same animation as dk skill, which is a banal hackwork. There was also the Bloodfrenzy morph, which could really give something unique in the world of the game to some builds, but, unfortunately, it was nerfed. The vampire's ultimate itself could clearly be made more interesting than a simple copy-paste of the necro's ultimate, for example, adding an "upgrade" to all vampire skills used on the panel, eviscerate would become non-target, but could deal damage to all enemies in front of you, as if a vampire lord would tear apart enemies in front of him with his claws. In addition, it would be possible to give players the opportunity to build their build in the form of a vampire lord, significantly reduce the cost of the ult in Perfect Scion morph, rework, for example, the Vampire Lord set so that it can provide regeneration of ultimate points in the ult form, and so on. As a result, I can say that I liked the latest changes to eviscerate and mist, but this is clearly not enough, as I already said, we need to reconsider the principle of operation of 3 other skills and passives, or radically rework some of them, slightly rework the vampire’s ultimate and his morphs to add something really interesting to the vampire form, let the vampire be a full-fledged subclass, and not a pathetic, narrowly targeted “plug”, what do you think?

KaironBlackbard

No

I was very happy when they added mist form to the game. Channelled 50% resistance to everything, but no combat.
Then they nerfed it from my primary play, but buffed it for PvP: 75% resistance to damage from players, leaving no resistance form NPCs.
Then they turned it into a dash.
I like my channeled effects. That was heartbreaking honestly.

As for Frenzy, I don't care which morph you use because that ability does more harm than good in high damage taken scenarios.
You are taking damage every second (I think it got changed to once every two seconds? I still don't use it) to gain a negligible boost to damage. I'm glad they capped its health cost though.

Eviscerate? I don't use it. I prefer Concealed Weapon.

Drain Life: I am disheartened that they nerfed its healing from 33% to 25%. Even when it was 33% I was still getting owned by enemy players left right and sideways.

Mesmerize: I only use it to access NPCs. It's on my backbar, or just not slotted.

Passives:
I love the sneak boost.
I love the T2 damage boost upon exiting stealth or invisibility. Pairs well with invisi-sprint. Also with Nightblade who isn't using Dark Cloak.
I love the T3 damage resistance the lower your health.
I love the T4 Invisi-sprint and reduced sprint cost.

As for the Ultimate, I prefer swarming because then I can survive PvP for 18 seconds. Constantly healing for each enemy close to you.
However, due to the fact I norm T4, I would swap to Perfected if it had this effect:
"While Slotted (or While Slotted on either bar [not stacking]), reduce the negative effects of Vampirism by one stage."

Then I could have a little health recovery again, instead of relying on sets like Darloc Brae or Shadow Walker.
If you say Adamant Lurker or Beekeeper's is better, they are actually dead as T4 because they are recovery, which is reduced by 100%.
I don't have heals except for siphoning strikes, Sap Essence, and Drain Life.
Sap Essence is meager, and the other two require a target. Darloc is so much better.

GrimStyx

Yes

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

I was very happy when they added mist form to the game. Channelled 50% resistance to everything, but no combat.
Then they nerfed it from my primary play, but buffed it for PvP: 75% resistance to damage from players, leaving no resistance form NPCs.
Then they turned it into a dash.
I like my channeled effects. That was heartbreaking honestly.

As for Frenzy, I don't care which morph you use because that ability does more harm than good in high damage taken scenarios.
You are taking damage every second (I think it got changed to once every two seconds? I still don't use it) to gain a negligible boost to damage. I'm glad they capped its health cost though.

Eviscerate? I don't use it. I prefer Concealed Weapon.

Drain Life: I am disheartened that they nerfed its healing from 33% to 25%. Even when it was 33% I was still getting owned by enemy players left right and sideways.

Mesmerize: I only use it to access NPCs. It's on my backbar, or just not slotted.

Passives:
I love the sneak boost.
I love the T2 damage boost upon exiting stealth or invisibility. Pairs well with invisi-sprint. Also with Nightblade who isn't using Dark Cloak.
I love the T3 damage resistance the lower your health.
I love the T4 Invisi-sprint and reduced sprint cost.

As for the Ultimate, I prefer swarming because then I can survive PvP for 18 seconds. Constantly healing for each enemy close to you.
However, due to the fact I norm T4, I would swap to Perfected if it had this effect:
"While Slotted (or While Slotted on either bar [not stacking]), reduce the negative effects of Vampirism by one stage."

Then I could have a little health recovery again, instead of relying on sets like Darloc Brae or Shadow Walker.
If you say Adamant Lurker or Beekeeper's is better, they are actually dead as T4 because they are recovery, which is reduced by 100%.
I don't have heals except for siphoning strikes, Sap Essence, and Drain Life.
Sap Essence is meager, and the other two require a target. Darloc is so much better.

I’ll say a little off topic, but trying to accelerate health recovery in pvp is not the most profitable activity, even on non-vampires, the reason for this is battle spirit, for this reason many play with stage 3 of vampirism due to the lack of other adequate alternatives.

Nerouyn

I like that they tried to do more with their active abilities in the Greymoor remake and later tweaks. IMO they might be the best now that they ever have been. But it's still essentially an extra 5 abilities plus some useful passives which look most at home with Nightblades. I only have the one.

Though a total immersion / lore break being able to effectively turn vampirism completely off with the armory system is also a welcome addition.

Vampires in general aren't something I'm super into. I'm playing V Rising now because of the recent update and that game is brilliant for creating a web of systems which deliver an experience you'd expect if you really were a vampire. It also has fun housing / furnishing.

In Elder Scrolls they're victims of a curse / disease created by Molag Bal and which dooms you to his eternal grasp upon death. I don't swing that way.

Skyrim's (single player) Vampire Lord was an interesting upgrade but lorewise not something they can repeat in ESO. They're meant to be super rare. Though understandably the ESO vampire experience will feel lacklustre in comparison.

Yamenstein

Partially rework

I just want them to change the drain ability. Rework it.

Also the ultimate is not worth using. Maybe look into that.

GrimStyx

Yes

Nerouyn wrote: »

I like that they tried to do more with their active abilities in the Greymoor remake and later tweaks. IMO they might be the best now that they ever have been. But it's still essentially an extra 5 abilities plus some useful passives which look most at home with Nightblades. I only have the one.

Though a total immersion / lore break being able to effectively turn vampirism completely off with the armory system is also a welcome addition.

Vampires in general aren't something I'm super into. I'm playing V Rising now because of the recent update and that game is brilliant for creating a web of systems which deliver an experience you'd expect if you really were a vampire. It also has fun housing / furnishing.

In Elder Scrolls they're victims of a curse / disease created by Molag Bal and which dooms you to his eternal grasp upon death. I don't swing that way.

Skyrim's (single player) Vampire Lord was an interesting upgrade but lorewise not something they can repeat in ESO. They're meant to be super rare. Though understandably the ESO vampire experience will feel lacklustre in comparison.

in fact, yes, some abilities from other classes would look very good on a vampire, for example, I suggested converting the useless vampiric drain into a templar radiant beam, people start crying that it will be the same thing, well, you can just play with the numbers and effects, and is no longer the same thing, the fact is that it will actually work great with the vampire and his skills, and some small repetitions are not a reason not to do what would work well, especially since this didn’t bother the developers that much before.

I’m also sure that with the same frenzy you can come up with something very cool, in fact, the concept of trading health looks very interesting, you sacrifice health in order to receive more damage and more healing from abilities with the effect of vampirism (I mean those abilities that restore health from % damage dealt).

And mesmerize needs to either be improved, or completely remade into another ability, this is the most unreliable stun in the game, from which you can easily find a much more reliable and useful replacement for fear from NB, or abilities from the fighters guild. In short, the abilities have disgusting synergy with each other, and some of them are completely useless,

I agree that the current vampire is better than the previous one conceptually, and even some abilities look good, but they need to be polished, and some need to be completely remade, including rethinking the work of ultimate, if all vampiric abilities will receive an “upgrade” in ult form, this will be cool and interesting, as well as if the cost for Perfect Scion is significantly reduced, even if it is a more weakened version in terms of stats, unlike the other morph, but this will give people the opportunity to build their builds from vampire form to try to be in it as often as possible, and that would be cool, it would bring this useless morph back to life and give the game variety

KaironBlackbard

No

I wonder... does the powered trait improve the healing from drain life and swarming scion?
Likewise, any other healing done buffs? (Resto, Templar, Siphoning NB, etc)
Likewise, healing received buffs? (Heavy Armor, etc)

Nerouyn

GrimStyx wrote: »

I agree that the current vampire is better than the previous one conceptually, and even some abilities look good, but they need to be polished, and some need to be completely remade

Yes I find their current state to be better than previously but still not at all satisfying in its own right, i.e. minus the Nightblade abilities. The health drain / weak damage is super meh. I could only see it being useful maybe on a sorc not running any other heals for the extra ult (with that morph).

I'm not especially into melee so really the only active ability I'd use is the pbaoe. But with the inverse vampire / everything else cost scaling, why bother?

Before scribing at least scarcity of mag scaling non-class abilities made vampire slightly appealing. Now it won't even have that.

Though I'm glad for scribing.

GrimStyx

Yes

Nerouyn wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

I agree that the current vampire is better than the previous one conceptually, and even some abilities look good, but they need to be polished, and some need to be completely remade

Yes I find their current state to be better than previously but still not at all satisfying in its own right, i.e. minus the Nightblade abilities. The health drain / weak damage is super meh. I could only see it being useful maybe on a sorc not running any other heals for the extra ult (with that morph).

I'm not especially into melee so really the only active ability I'd use is the pbaoe. But with the inverse vampire / everything else cost scaling, why bother?

Before scribing at least scarcity of mag scaling non-class abilities made vampire slightly appealing. Now it won't even have that.

Though I'm glad for scribing.

in fact, you can justify the situation a little here, for example, even in the same v rising you mentioned, there are vampire abilities from different directions of schools of magic, it may sound very far-fetched, but a magicka nightblade is a vampire who has focused on blood magic, a necro vampire - on unholy magic, and so on... In short, this can somehow be justified xD

My main complaint is that most of the vampire abilities are useless, that for the most part they do not combine well with each other, and do not provide any unique gameplay, the reasons have already been described above.

GrimStyx

Yes

Well, I’ll write an example of how, in my vision, a vampire should work in combat conditions, so that the skills are combined, you use Blood Frenzy (which would be slightly redone), use mesmerize (which would stun regardless of whether the enemy is looking at you or not, and would create blood bond for a short time, absorbing health and restoring it for % of damage dealt), then the Arterial Burst morph could also heal for % of damage dealt, absorbing part of your health, so that when you hit on low health it would heal much more than you waste your health on casting it, and vampiric drain would be a finishing ability that would also heal you for a % of the damage dealt.

Why is it so important for a vampire to have % damage healing everywhere?? Because his survivability should directly depend on his combat effectiveness, and trading health should directly increase this combat effectiveness, accordingly, by trading health we take risks, but in return we get much more damage and healing, so that this risk is justified

Firstmep

Partially rework

I think undeath needs to be replaced with some other passive, it's simply too strong for pvp.
Also, although it's more of a flavor thing, I'd love to have batswarm back.

KaironBlackbard

No

My undeath is still devastatingly weak.
I run a medium armor build NB T4 Vamp.
That 30% rarely kicks in. Also, it's UP TO 30%. Average use is maybe 3%. You've heard of gankblades and gankknights right? They keep assassinating me in 1-3 shots. I don't even have time to retaliate before I die.
27k HP, 16k res, uppercut (dragonknight) or Concealed Weapon (NB) I'm dead. I still can't fathom how they managed to stack such damage. I can't stack that much damage.
And since it's mostly the gank attack, it's suffering -0% from Undeath, because I'm 100% health. Always brings me below 25% if it doesn't kill me. One more hit now I'm dead if I wasn't already.

Also, detection potions should NOT allow them to see through invisibility. Crouch stealth sure (but should let them know detected), but NOT Invisibility.
As of now, it doesn't let people know they are detected.
And they get ganked by a ganker they didn't see who was running detect pot.
For the common player, this makes PvP unplayable.
This includes Vamps, NBs, and most harmfully, people running Invis Potions. Makes their potions utterly useless.

Lystrad

Yes

I think vampire now is definitely better than it was, but my biggest problems with it have always been twofold.

1. It's too focused on spending health, it makes it come across as less of a vampire and more of a blood mage, spending health is fine and can be thematic in the right circumstances, but right now the vampire doesn't too much in the way of vampirism in combat unless you're a nightblade, and in that case it's coming less from vampire and more from nightblade.
2. I think that the drain should have been the spammable. It could have effectively been a ranged version of bloodthirst/templar jabs (preferably one that counts as damage over time since there is currently no dot spammable), with one morph being for damage, gaining power based on the number of dots you have on the target up to a cap and the other being a healing blood transfusion. Then eviscerate could have been either a burst ability or an execute, with blood for blood becoming a tank morph that gives minor resolve and builds damage as you take hits before exploding when the timer runs out.

They reworked vampire because they wanted vampires to commit to playing vampire, but didn't give them all of the tools necessary to facilitate that, leaving them still mostly reliant on non vampire abilities that were also far less self destructive to use.

KaironBlackbard

No

I do agree somewhat, but Drain Life was never meant to be a spammable. It is Resource Restore. Its primary benefit is healing. Secondary benefit is either stamina or Ultimate depending on the morph you choose. If it looses its health restore and Ultimate generation, there will no longer be a reason for me to use it. I don't care if it's a spammable. Honestly, I hate spammables. Give me Ice Staff, give me buff abilities, maybe an execute or heals, and I will waste the field.

ClowdyAllDay

How many times we gonna completely redesign vamp? Until it’s as useless as werewolf in pvp? Is that the standard then?

GrimStyx

Yes

ClowdyAllDay wrote: »

How many times we gonna completely redesign vamp? Until it’s as useless as werewolf in pvp? Is that the standard then?

The usefulness of a vampire now is the passive Undeath, Eviscerate and Mist, well, perhaps Swarming Scion is useful for someone else, bombers also use Unnatural Movement, but what about the other remaining skills? Blood Frenzy initially came out broken, which is why it was nerfed and became almost useless. Vampiric Drain and Mesmerize are generally useless, and it is unclear why they exist in the vampire branch in this form. The werewolf, unlike the vampire, feels interesting in terms of gameplay, all of his skills seem useful for his playstyle (maybe the developers just need to play with the numbers), and you can base your build solely on the werewolf form, the vampire does not provide anything unique in the form, the build cannot be built normally from the form due to its monstrous cost of both morphs, inability to regenerate ultimate points, or somehow maintain the state of the form for a long time. So yes, it definitely needs some work and changes.

SilverBride

Yes

I'd love to be able to make my oldest character a Vampire again because it was a big part of her identity for many years. I think a rework could bring a lot of players back to Vampirism.

Lystrad

Yes

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

I do agree somewhat, but Drain Life was never meant to be a spammable. It is Resource Restore. Its primary benefit is healing. Secondary benefit is either stamina or Ultimate depending on the morph you choose. If it looses its health restore and Ultimate generation, there will no longer be a reason for me to use it. I don't care if it's a spammable. Honestly, I hate spammables. Give me Ice Staff, give me buff abilities, maybe an execute or heals, and I will waste the field.

I mean, to be fair it wouldn't really need to lose it's healing to be a spammable. Bloodthirst, sweeps and swallow soul are all spammables with selfish healing componants, and as scribing has demonstrated, they're totally willing to allow spammables that restore resources with the wield soul affix that makes it restore 1000 magicka and stamina on every cast.

KaironBlackbard

No

GrimStyx wrote: »

ClowdyAllDay wrote: »

How many times we gonna completely redesign vamp? Until it’s as useless as werewolf in pvp? Is that the standard then?

The usefulness of a vampire now is the passive Undeath, Eviscerate and Mist, well, perhaps Swarming Scion is useful for someone else, bombers also use Unnatural Movement, but what about the other remaining skills? Blood Frenzy initially came out broken, which is why it was nerfed and became almost useless. Vampiric Drain and Mesmerize are generally useless, and it is unclear why they exist in the vampire branch in this form. The werewolf, unlike the vampire, feels interesting in terms of gameplay, all of his skills seem useful for his playstyle (maybe the developers just need to play with the numbers), and you can base your build solely on the werewolf form, the vampire does not provide anything unique in the form, the build cannot be built normally from the form due to its monstrous cost of both morphs, inability to regenerate ultimate points, or somehow maintain the state of the form for a long time. So yes, it definitely needs some work and changes.

I don't know what reality you're living in.
Eviscerate is utter trash. Class spammables deal much more damage.
The Focus of Drain Life is heal, and it does a better job than most heals I have access to. Use the Ult Gen morph and you gain Ult faster than anyone. Allows you to maintain Scion form as much as possible, or whatever Ult you use.
Swarming is better than any Ults I have access to as NB.
The only use for Mist Form is Blood Mist. Base and Movement morph are now totally useless with the current version.
I used to use the movement when it was channeled. Back then Blood Mist was utterly useless. Now it's inverted.
Mesmerize's only real use is to unlock NPCs when you are a T4 Vamp. Still doesn't work on pack merchant though.
Yes, Blood Frenzy is totally useless. Causes you to take 1000% more dps (or so it feels) while dealing 0.5% more dps. Useless.
Undeath never really has more than 5%, even though I have max rank. The loss to regen is the balance there. That's why it feels useless, because you aren't regenning as much or just aren't regenning at all. It is balanced. It is not op.
Unnatural Movement is useless in PvP. All they gotta do is chug a Detection Potion and they can see you from almost 45 meters away. You're dead and don't even realise it. Detection Potions are broken. Should only let you detect stealth, not see through invisibility. Makes reveal spells utterly useless as well.

KaironBlackbard

No

Lystrad wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

I do agree somewhat, but Drain Life was never meant to be a spammable. It is Resource Restore. Its primary benefit is healing. Secondary benefit is either stamina or Ultimate depending on the morph you choose. If it looses its health restore and Ultimate generation, there will no longer be a reason for me to use it. I don't care if it's a spammable. Honestly, I hate spammables. Give me Ice Staff, give me buff abilities, maybe an execute or heals, and I will waste the field.

I mean, to be fair it wouldn't really need to lose it's healing to be a spammable. Bloodthirst, sweeps and swallow soul are all spammables with selfish healing componants, and as scribing has demonstrated, they're totally willing to allow spammables that restore resources with the wield soul affix that makes it restore 1000 magicka and stamina on every cast.

I hate bloodthirst. Too weak in healing. I prefer the current drain life.
Swallow Soul tends to be weak as well.
Siphoning Strikes has triple the healing of strife. I think I went the totally selfish morph. Still weak. Siphoning and Drain are insanely better.
This is with Cloak morphed to Critical and still giving invisibility.
I have one character using Dark Cloak, now that is an insane heal. When stationary at least. Just decent otherwise.
I still wish that sets focussed on Health Recovery had an alternate feature for a T4 Vampire, so that they could gain some passive healing by having that set. Take Beekeepers and Adamant Lurker for example. Useless for a T4.
What is sweeps? Is that the Templar ability? If so, it is good, I just don't want vampirism on my Healer. I like that ability though. Fun AoE and heal.

I like vampirism for sprint builds as well.
Orc+Fiords+T4Vamp+MediumArmor = invisi-sprinting at mach speeds
Nightblade for Dark Cloak and Concealed Weapon, (Minor Protection, Minor Expedition)
Support: Revealing Flare (Major Protection)
Refreshing Path doesn't boost my speed. Major Expedition is useless for me. It makes a good secondary extra heal.
Dark Cloak + Refreshing Path + Swallow Soul + Siphoning Strikes + Drain Life + Several Siphoning Abilities Slotted = SO MUCH HEALING. Yet I still get wasted in PvP... I can never win. Seriously, it's about 20k-30k per second in Imperial City and I still get wasted almost instantly.

Araneae6537

Yes

Firstmep wrote: »

I think undeath needs to be replaced with some other passive, it's simply too strong for pvp.
Also, although it's more of a flavor thing, I'd love to have batswarm back.

Yes, get rid of undeath and remove the penalties to recovery — vampires are supposed to recover well from damage even in ESO, right? Right now Undeath is overpowered in PvP and nearly useless in PvE.

I absolutely agree about batswarm! I want to have an ult option that doesn’t include becoming some giant monstrosity. I only made a vampire at all after playing through the Greymoor and Reach storylines and wanted to create a vampire like one of the Ravenwatch — not like those alchemically altered monsters.

GrimStyx

Yes

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

ClowdyAllDay wrote: »

How many times we gonna completely redesign vamp? Until it’s as useless as werewolf in pvp? Is that the standard then?

The usefulness of a vampire now is the passive Undeath, Eviscerate and Mist, well, perhaps Swarming Scion is useful for someone else, bombers also use Unnatural Movement, but what about the other remaining skills? Blood Frenzy initially came out broken, which is why it was nerfed and became almost useless. Vampiric Drain and Mesmerize are generally useless, and it is unclear why they exist in the vampire branch in this form. The werewolf, unlike the vampire, feels interesting in terms of gameplay, all of his skills seem useful for his playstyle (maybe the developers just need to play with the numbers), and you can base your build solely on the werewolf form, the vampire does not provide anything unique in the form, the build cannot be built normally from the form due to its monstrous cost of both morphs, inability to regenerate ultimate points, or somehow maintain the state of the form for a long time. So yes, it definitely needs some work and changes.

I don't know what reality you're living in.
Eviscerate is utter trash. Class spammables deal much more damage.
The Focus of Drain Life is heal, and it does a better job than most heals I have access to. Use the Ult Gen morph and you gain Ult faster than anyone. Allows you to maintain Scion form as much as possible, or whatever Ult you use.
Swarming is better than any Ults I have access to as NB.
The only use for Mist Form is Blood Mist. Base and Movement morph are now totally useless with the current version.
I used to use the movement when it was channeled. Back then Blood Mist was utterly useless. Now it's inverted.
Mesmerize's only real use is to unlock NPCs when you are a T4 Vamp. Still doesn't work on pack merchant though.
Yes, Blood Frenzy is totally useless. Causes you to take 1000% more dps (or so it feels) while dealing 0.5% more dps. Useless.
Undeath never really has more than 5%, even though I have max rank. The loss to regen is the balance there. That's why it feels useless, because you aren't regenning as much or just aren't regenning at all. It is balanced. It is not op.
Unnatural Movement is useless in PvP. All they gotta do is chug a Detection Potion and they can see you from almost 45 meters away. You're dead and don't even realise it. Detection Potions are broken. Should only let you detect stealth, not see through invisibility. Makes reveal spells utterly useless as well.

Does Eviscerate do less damage than class spams? Did you specify which ones?) Not every class has access to strong melee spams, Eviscerate, by the way, actively use sorcs under shields, the damage from it comes out to be decently good, and there is also a guaranteed bleeding status with stacks, so I don’t agree with you that it's that bad.

Does Vampiric Drain heal well? This is not true, or rather partly, if you have 50k health, then perhaps, on the other hand, you need to support it, while you support it you become a very vulnerable target for other players, the skill cast can be disrupted, you can be stunned, and then easily finished off, because that it does virtually no damage, unlike Radiant Glory, which has huge damage and significant healing, which means counterattacking you is as easy as shelling pears, nice, another narrow-profile skill exclusively for a PVE tank. It would be really useful if it were an execution ability, allowing you to heal from your missing health, but that's isn't

Regarding the ultimate generation, have you seen the cost of both morphs? Even with Exhilarating Drain spam, this will not be the fastest process, and moreover, in the form of the ult, ultimate points are not regenerated, and it is pointless to use the ult in this form; apart from stats, it does not provide absolutely no unique mechanics, it is just a redrawn model of the necro ult, which Plus it's easy to kite.

In fact, the Perfect scion morph should really be greatly reduced in price, or allowed to accumulate ultimate points in the form, so that it absorbs half of its cost over time, so that you can continue to be in the form of a vampire lord, and it is ideally combined with 5 stage which gives, allowing you to experiment with builds through the vampire form

I would add an additional feature for Blood Frenzy and its morphs that would allow healing from % of damage dealt, or could give minor sorcery/brutality, in short, this ability lacks something to be truly useful, then perhaps it could play out more interestingly, but alas, I’m not a developer and I can’t experiment with numbers and skills

And yes, that’s why I suggested reworking some passives, because having such a ridiculous passive at stage 4 is a mockery.
I have nothing against undeath, I love and respect it, and it really helps me survive a little

Amottica

No

Interestingly, more than half the responses so far do not support a total rework. That is even following a long statement biasing the poll towards the rework.

Sabre

Choosing to become a vampire anything beyond stage 1 or 2 should be make one wanted by the justice system.
If the religions were more prevalent, vampires and werewolves could gain abilities through the worship of Hircine and the Night Mother, but be barred from some other select skill lines.
Becoming a vampire should abandon one's racial passives for the passives of the vampire. These things should not stack. They should not be able to use soul magic, and classes such as the templar should be barred from vampirism (or something like this variant among many skills that vampires should not be able to use).
But...let's face it - we don't have worship of the various Gods, Goddesses, Daedra, etc to be anything significant.
In real gaming lore, Vampires are powerful undead, and thus tempering their powers vs. regular characters is not a thing easily balanced in a game where anyone can become a vampire and reap the benefits.
Vampires should only be friendly to other vampires and enemies of anything that is not a vampire, etc.
But...its a game, people that are into the vampirism thing and the RP of that class etc. is a thing - but the advantages shouldnt be so great in pvp etc. they should not be friendly even in their own factions. Would make for an interesting dynamic if there was a monster clan in pvp, not 4th alliance, but some kind of separate thing that would solve some of the vampire skill stacking with other things.
Vampirism and werewolf is an interesting thing in the single player elder scrolls games, but more difficult to implement en masse.
Reworking it to make it meaningful in the mmo world would be interesting, but it might best be done if combined with other dynamics that are not yet realized and would require an overhaul of several systems.

Artim_X

Yes

Back when it was two skills and an ultimate, I used the entire kit. I still used mist and drain after the revamp, but now after even more changes to the kit I don't use any skills and just use vamp for the passives...

KaironBlackbard

No

I can't do anything without swarming scion. Best ult I have access to as a magblade.
Don't you dare take that, or invisi-sprint, away from me!
Its bad enough that detection potions allow them to see me when I'm invisible.

Eviscerate 5k damage, Concealed Weapon 7.5k damage.
Drain Life ignores battle spirit due to its percentile based healing. Heals 10 times more than any other heals in pvp.
Fury: I'll take a ton of dps to do nothing extra to enemies! Utterly useless.
Swarming Scion + hoard or wave or zurg = so much healing that not even a boss can make a dent. 180 cost is nothing.
Blood Mist: stack the effect with swarming and you go god mode.
Mesmerize: hi npc, I'm a T4 vamp, let me access your shop! (Doesn't work on pack merchants)

GrimStyx

Yes

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

I can't do anything without swarming scion. Best ult I have access to as a magblade.
Don't you dare take that, or invisi-sprint, away from me!
Its bad enough that detection potions allow them to see me when I'm invisible.

Eviscerate 5k damage, Concealed Weapon 7.5k damage.
Drain Life ignores battle spirit due to its percentile based healing. Heals 10 times more than any other heals in pvp.
Fury: I'll take a ton of dps to do nothing extra to enemies! Utterly useless.
Swarming Scion + hoard or wave or zurg = so much healing that not even a boss can make a dent. 180 cost is nothing.
Blood Mist: stack the effect with swarming and you go god mode.
Mesmerize: hi npc, I'm a T4 vamp, let me access your shop! (Doesn't work on pack merchants)

I can assume that more casual players simply do not see the shortcomings that are seen by players who build more or less serious builds, and not semi-roleplay pvp. Believe me, I tried to combine different skills on my magicka nb with vampire ones, only mist and eviscerate are playable, the rest is trash. In order for vampiric drain to be playable, it needs to be a finishing ability. And invisibility at stage 4, well, this is really some kind of joke, in practice it can only be useful for bombers and pve players who skip packs of monsters, due to its unreliability and low efficiency it definitely has no place at stage 4, in fact, many they play no higher than 3, because there is no point in having such a “reward” for such fines

Necrotech_Master

Partially rework

i think there are definitely a few things that could be tweaked with vampire

i really would like the drain, but its almost useless outside of support classes (tanks/healers) because the dmg it does is so low

the ultimate is just OK, swarming scion is basically the same as old bat swarm more or less except you cant generate ultimate while its active

eviscerate would be nice to have a ranged option as one of the morphs, honestly i think swallow soul from NB is a better vampire themed skill

the current mist form is OK as it gives a traversal skill to all classes, not quite as good as class specific ones but still better than nothing

vampire stages having a timer is just annoying, though for people who dont have a basin of loss or the foods to increase or decrease vampire stage there still needs to be some way for it to drop down in stage

stage 4 penalty of 0 hp regen is extremely annoying, make it like -90% but not -100%, its annoying when you have to be constantly casting heals as your traveling because every time you take fall dmg you are not healing it unless you actively heal it yourself

Cathexis

I'm upset about mistform changes but overall so far I'm enjoying vampire. The new changes in general are very fun to play with. Changes to mistform though were unfortunate. Had a lot of practical pvp uses.

Edit; played with it more, its a lot different, so its still pretty useful.

ValarMorghulis1896

Yes

Yes, since it's a must-have in PvP. It should be a niche for specific playstyles, not something you have to play to be competitive!

KaironBlackbard

No

The previous version was the timer would increase your stage and you had to feed to reduce it, just like all other ES games.
The catch was Feed didn't kill. Feed on villager NPC, get bounty. Feed on enemy NPC, get smacked in the face.
I honestly think they should have left it as it was, ish, the only change being Feeding kills, which they did apply.

Now, I do like feeding to raise my stage, as I like my invisi-sprinter build, but I do see where people might avoid feeding to remain low.
He is also an assassin type, with blade of woe. Feeding is like a long range blade of woe.
If they revert to where stage rises over time and Feeding lowers it, I'd have to avoid feeding on him to keep my invisi-sprint.
However, my other vamp builds with low stage build would have to feed a lot to remain low stage.