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The problem of fake roles
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Warhawke_80✭✭✭✭✭Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »DonHardstyle wrote: »So i que as healer and get a group instant. Nope i do not slot a group heal either. And nope i also wil not stop queueing as healer.
this isn’t a solo game.
if you want to cue for a group event and purposefully don’t do what you said you would when you cued, it’s mega trolly. you can’t even slot one heal? like wtf?
create a group finder and label it “LF 3 other DPS for daily random”
On the contrary, this is very much a solo game.
90% of the content in ESO is solo the least amount of content played..that is content played the least is group content. In fact, in most MMORPG's Raids are the least participated in yet most expensive content to create.
Also, we just can't point to people and say "This game isn't for you go away" Not only is it rude... I'm pretty sure that is against the TOS...though, there certainly are small cells of players who want that kind of power which if you think about it is scary
... or maybe not...I don't know which way you swing on that one.
Anyway
For me I play what some call fake Tanks and healers all the time never once have I died in a dungeon or Trial. The Trinity was a terrible idea for an Elder Scrolls game and no one but no one is forcing me into some outdated concept of roles, but no one is trying to do that to me or anyone else... in fact the only place I hear complaints about that are these forums and always by the same handful of people.
dungeons are 100% not a solo game. if you want to solo it, go ahead, no one is stopping you.
if, however, you want to do it with a team… you should at least attempt to play the role you said you would. or find friends who are willing to tolerate no heals or taunting.
Dungeons are also what maybe 5% of the overall content? All Group Content maybe 10% (and it's not really group content if you can solo it is it?) Everything else 100& solo...so ESO is a solo game.
And no I refuse to bend to outdated concepts of roles especially if I can spank the dungeon in whatever way I choose, it's silly to just limit myself to a DPS role when I can successfully Tank and off-heal at the same time.
The go in solo and quit trolling your groups.
lol My groups never complain...the only folks who do are here on the forum.
““Elric knew. The sword told him, without words of any sort. Stormbringer needed to fight, for that was its reason for existence...”― Michael Moorcock, Elric of Melniboné3 -
Soarora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »DonHardstyle wrote: »So i que as healer and get a group instant. Nope i do not slot a group heal either. And nope i also wil not stop queueing as healer.
this isn’t a solo game.
if you want to cue for a group event and purposefully don’t do what you said you would when you cued, it’s mega trolly. you can’t even slot one heal? like wtf?
create a group finder and label it “LF 3 other DPS for daily random”
On the contrary, this is very much a solo game.
90% of the content in ESO is solo the least amount of content played..that is content played the least is group content. In fact, in most MMORPG's Raids are the least participated in yet most expensive content to create.
Also, we just can't point to people and say "This game isn't for you go away" Not only is it rude... I'm pretty sure that is against the TOS...though, there certainly are small cells of players who want that kind of power which if you think about it is scary ... or maybe not...I don't know which way you swing on that one.
Anyway
For me I play what some call fake Tanks and healers all the time never once have I died in a dungeon or Trial. The Trinity was a terrible idea for an Elder Scrolls game and no one but no one is forcing me into some outdated concept of roles, but no one is trying to do that to me or anyone else... in fact the only place I hear complaints about that are these forums and always by the same handful of people.
dungeons are 100% not a solo game. if you want to solo it, go ahead, no one is stopping you.
if, however, you want to do it with a team… you should at least attempt to play the role you said you would. or find friends who are willing to tolerate no heals or taunting.
Dungeons are also what maybe 5% of the overall content? All Group Content maybe 10% (and it's not really group content if you can solo it is it?) Everything else 100& solo...so ESO is a solo game.
And no I refuse to bend to outdated concepts of roles especially if I can spank the dungeon in whatever way I choose, it's silly to just limit myself to a DPS role when I can successfully Tank and off-heal at the same time.
The go in solo and quit trolling your groups.
lol My groups never complain...the only folks who do are here on the forum.
Not everyone wants confrontation. I don't complain when DPS is painfully low, to the people I'm running with most of the time. Doesn't mean that it's okay, just means I didn't wanna hurt their feelings or start a fight.PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore- CP 2000+
- Warden Healer - Arcanist Healer - Warden Brittleden - Stamarc - Sorc Tank - Necro Tank - Templar Tank - Arcanist Tank
- Trials: 9/12 HMs - 3/8 Tris
- Dungeons: 30/30 HMs - 24/24 Tris
- All Veterans completed!
View my builds!
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Warhawke_80✭✭✭✭✭Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »DonHardstyle wrote: »So i que as healer and get a group instant. Nope i do not slot a group heal either. And nope i also wil not stop queueing as healer.
this isn’t a solo game.
if you want to cue for a group event and purposefully don’t do what you said you would when you cued, it’s mega trolly. you can’t even slot one heal? like wtf?
create a group finder and label it “LF 3 other DPS for daily random”
On the contrary, this is very much a solo game.
90% of the content in ESO is solo the least amount of content played..that is content played the least is group content. In fact, in most MMORPG's Raids are the least participated in yet most expensive content to create.
Also, we just can't point to people and say "This game isn't for you go away" Not only is it rude... I'm pretty sure that is against the TOS...though, there certainly are small cells of players who want that kind of power which if you think about it is scary ... or maybe not...I don't know which way you swing on that one.
Anyway
For me I play what some call fake Tanks and healers all the time never once have I died in a dungeon or Trial. The Trinity was a terrible idea for an Elder Scrolls game and no one but no one is forcing me into some outdated concept of roles, but no one is trying to do that to me or anyone else... in fact the only place I hear complaints about that are these forums and always by the same handful of people.
dungeons are 100% not a solo game. if you want to solo it, go ahead, no one is stopping you.
if, however, you want to do it with a team… you should at least attempt to play the role you said you would. or find friends who are willing to tolerate no heals or taunting.
Dungeons are also what maybe 5% of the overall content? All Group Content maybe 10% (and it's not really group content if you can solo it is it?) Everything else 100& solo...so ESO is a solo game.
And no I refuse to bend to outdated concepts of roles especially if I can spank the dungeon in whatever way I choose, it's silly to just limit myself to a DPS role when I can successfully Tank and off-heal at the same time.
The go in solo and quit trolling your groups.
lol My groups never complain...the only folks who do are here on the forum.
Not everyone wants confrontation. I don't complain when DPS is painfully low, to the people I'm running with most of the time. Doesn't mean that it's okay, just means I didn't wanna hurt their feelings or start a fight.
I highly doubt no one speaks up because they are all afraid to hurt feelings...not this community, lol heck I have heard of players getting threats because they were riding a radiant apex mount... the truth of it is no one actually cares in-game they just want to get through the dungeon or trial and given that the vast majority of players are TES fans first...they are like me and think fixed class roles are ridiculous.
Edited by Warhawke_80 on May 16, 2024 7:22PM““Elric knew. The sword told him, without words of any sort. Stormbringer needed to fight, for that was its reason for existence...”― Michael Moorcock, Elric of Melniboné1 -
Sailor_Palutena✭✭✭✭DonHardstyle wrote: »Fake roles aint the issue, dd que times are. I am not going to wait half a hour to get my rdnd done. So i que as healer and get a group instant. Nope i do not slot a group heal either. And nope i also wil not stop queueing as healer.
Tbf, for normal dungeons you baraly need a tank or a healer.
The problem is when you get a noob group and screw their experience by leaving them behind or messing up the quest. But whatever, you are bored with the game and still play it anyway, so might as well bore everybody else!4 -
SolarRune✭✭So having read this I dont agree as someone put above that no one sees it as an issue, and I see plenty of complaints from guild members and players outside of these forums about people just charging off or not doing their nominated roles, otherwise I wouldn't have started this thread. And no it is not isolated to random normals, but I suspect that because people demonstrate this behaviour in normals, less experienced players think this is the way to approach vets - and I have repeatedly experienced people fake queuing as a role - getting a difficult or long dungeon and quitting it leaving the other three behind. I have even seen similar behaviour with the group finder - so that is not a solution to the issue either.
There are some good suggestions here about how people could be better rewarded for doing what they commit to doing —a combination of a rating system linked to additional rewards (so carrot rather than the usual stick) would be an interesting approach, and I know it has been useful in other MMOs and been able to reduce toxicity in those areas of the game - because you dont get all the rewards if your actions are viewed by others as inappropriate.
There are always going to be people on both side of this discussion so anyone claiming either side is wrong is fooling themselves that there is not a problem that needs some attention in some way. Dungeons are a group activity so if your actions impact other players enjoyment of the game in a negative way, that for me that is a problem that needs some attention.
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TDVM✭✭✭✭Time is an expensive resource, and especially if a fake healer is a good dd who can survive then why can't he go instead of a tank or a hitman? you will pass nRandom or complete farm gold mask much faster. The whole problem is people who do not value the time of others and go either to read quests, or with another purpose that will take a very long time. People just want to get their gold mask or 10 transmutation stones.
I think players sooner or later should learn how to survive on their own without the support of a healer, it will be a good skill and this will be less of a problem for you.
If you go to a dungeon where a gold mask drops, it's obviously not the best idea at the moment. If you need a quest and you do not want to skip dialogs - take a companion or ask your friends, from the guild someone.1 -
MidniteOwl1913✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Time is an expensive resource, and especially if a fake healer is a good dd who can survive then why can't he go instead of a tank or a hitman? you will pass nRandom or complete farm gold mask much faster. The whole problem is people who do not value the time of others and go either to read quests, or with another purpose that will take a very long time. People just want to get their gold mask or 10 transmutation stones.
I think players sooner or later should learn how to survive on their own without the support of a healer, it will be a good skill and this will be less of a problem for you.
If you go to a dungeon where a gold mask drops, it's obviously not the best idea at the moment. If you need a quest and you do not want to skip dialogs - take a companion or ask your friends, from the guild someone.
Yes, time *is* the most expensive resource and the fakers and speed runners are wasting not only mine but the other 2 players as well.
Healers and tanks provide buffs/debuffs in addition to healing or holding the boss. They allow DDs to have 100% damage focused builds which mean they provide more damage and everyone gets thru the dungeon more easily. And it's not just that they can't taunt or heal, the fakers who run ahead don't care at all about the other people in the "group" content. They will run killing boss after boss to the end and if the rest of the party gets nothing so what. They got what they wanted.
It's not just the rewards, the content is important. Yes questers can slow down the race to the rewards, but they have a right to the content as much as the others have a right to the rewards.
PS5/NA3 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »DonHardstyle wrote: »So i que as healer and get a group instant. Nope i do not slot a group heal either. And nope i also wil not stop queueing as healer.
this isn’t a solo game.
if you want to cue for a group event and purposefully don’t do what you said you would when you cued, it’s mega trolly. you can’t even slot one heal? like wtf?
create a group finder and label it “LF 3 other DPS for daily random”
On the contrary, this is very much a solo game.
90% of the content in ESO is solo the least amount of content played..that is content played the least is group content. In fact, in most MMORPG's Raids are the least participated in yet most expensive content to create.
Also, we just can't point to people and say "This game isn't for you go away" Not only is it rude... I'm pretty sure that is against the TOS...though, there certainly are small cells of players who want that kind of power which if you think about it is scary ... or maybe not...I don't know which way you swing on that one.
Anyway
For me I play what some call fake Tanks and healers all the time never once have I died in a dungeon or Trial. The Trinity was a terrible idea for an Elder Scrolls game and no one but no one is forcing me into some outdated concept of roles, but no one is trying to do that to me or anyone else... in fact the only place I hear complaints about that are these forums and always by the same handful of people.
dungeons are 100% not a solo game. if you want to solo it, go ahead, no one is stopping you.
if, however, you want to do it with a team… you should at least attempt to play the role you said you would. or find friends who are willing to tolerate no heals or taunting.
Dungeons are also what maybe 5% of the overall content? All Group Content maybe 10% (and it's not really group content if you can solo it is it?) Everything else 100& solo...so ESO is a solo game.
And no I refuse to bend to outdated concepts of roles especially if I can spank the dungeon in whatever way I choose, it's silly to just limit myself to a DPS role when I can successfully Tank and off-heal at the same time.
The go in solo and quit trolling your groups.
lol My groups never complain...the only folks who do are here on the forum.
It's trolling and you'd best hope you don't get the wrong group some day.
Not doing your roles job should be actionable like it is in the other popular games.1 -
Blood_again✭✭✭✭✭There are some good suggestions here about how people could be better rewarded for doing what they commit to doing —a combination of a rating system linked to additional rewards (so carrot rather than the usual stick) would be an interesting approach, and I know it has been useful in other MMOs and been able to reduce toxicity in those areas of the game - because you dont get all the rewards if your actions are viewed by others as inappropriate.
The problem with bonuses for behaviour or reputation is that they will be exploited the day the criteria are revealed.
Add a bonus for reputation. You'll see rep-guilds in a week, where the only purpose will be the rep raising.
Add a bonus for behaviour, let's say for taunted enemies count if queued as a tank. You'll see fake tanks, who run ahead, taunt all around, die, taunt all around again and don't do the tank job anyway. You'll see addons that count the bonus and show the moment when fakes can do their usual mess instead of bonus-focused actions.
This is the game where every endgame player does min-max. So players will min-max for these bonuses too.
I would offer again. The blacklist that affects the dungeon finder.
It will cause the softest division of the dungeoneer community that is ever possible. This way every player will lower the chances of unwanted behaviour by their own preferences.
Don't like fake roles? You won't see the blacklisted fakes in your group again.
Don't like low dps? You blacklisted a few and they slow another group, not yours.
Don't like people moaning that you're a fake? They've already blacklisted you so you'll barely see them again.
It is a pure win-win for every side in this conflict of interests. It will make the dungeoning less conflicted and more comfortable in a month or two.
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furiouslog✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Blood_again wrote: »There are some good suggestions here about how people could be better rewarded for doing what they commit to doing —a combination of a rating system linked to additional rewards (so carrot rather than the usual stick) would be an interesting approach, and I know it has been useful in other MMOs and been able to reduce toxicity in those areas of the game - because you dont get all the rewards if your actions are viewed by others as inappropriate.
The problem with bonuses for behaviour or reputation is that they will be exploited the day the criteria are revealed.
Add a bonus for reputation. You'll see rep-guilds in a week, where the only purpose will be the rep raising.
Add a bonus for behaviour, let's say for taunted enemies count if queued as a tank. You'll see fake tanks, who run ahead, taunt all around, die, taunt all around again and don't do the tank job anyway. You'll see addons that count the bonus and show the moment when fakes can do their usual mess instead of bonus-focused actions.
This is the game where every endgame player does min-max. So players will min-max for these bonuses too.
I would offer again. The blacklist that affects the dungeon finder.
It will cause the softest division of the dungeoneer community that is ever possible. This way every player will lower the chances of unwanted behaviour by their own preferences.
Don't like fake roles? You won't see the blacklisted fakes in your group again.
Don't like low dps? You blacklisted a few and they slow another group, not yours.
Don't like people moaning that you're a fake? They've already blacklisted you so you'll barely see them again.
It is a pure win-win for every side in this conflict of interests. It will make the dungeoning less conflicted and more comfortable in a month or two.
The unintended consequence of this that I see is that someone who is learning how to dps gets blacklisted to the point where they can't do content in order to better learn how to dps.0 -
Blood_again✭✭✭✭✭furiouslog wrote: »The unintended consequence of this that I see is that someone who is learning how to dps gets blacklisted to the point where they can't do content in order to better learn how to dps.
I think that some people will blacklist the newcomers, yes.
I doubt that the point "they can't do content" is practically reachable.
Despite the blaming on the forum there are many people who are ready to play with beginners.
Personally I don't mind playing with low dps players, especially if it is normal dungeon or trial. Really, I remember I started the game the same way. So I left the group for their low dps only 2 times for ten years.
Also I know experienced players who enjoy helping and mentoring beginners in dungeons.
Last but not least, other beginners will be a good company for them. The beginners who refuse to play with other beginners act against the own good only.0