The problem of fake roles

SolarRune

I see alot of threads around fake roles, in general there ends up being an argument between people saying fake tanks/healers are an issue and someone will then raise this issue of fake DDs and then the thread is closed because it isn't seen as a constructive conversation. In my experience, people faking roles are only doing so to skip the queue time of DD.

For me a fake role is when someone queues and is unwilling to perform that role, so if someone has dual wield BUT has taken a taunt and collects and controls adds - I wouldn't treat that as a fake tank because they are doing the role of tank. For me a fake role is not just someone who is bad at that role.

We also need to remember that dungeons tend to represent the place for people to learn roles other than DPS - so every fake tank or healer is taking the place of someone else to learn that role, and equally impacts the other people in the group that may be learning their role.

As everyone seems to think fake roles in general are an issue, what do you feel can be done to solve this and improve the player experience of dungeons? what can be done to allow people to queue without faking? I'm not interested in the arguments around whether faking a particular role is worse than another, just how people think this practice could be resolved.

moderatelyfatman

I hope this thread doesn't get banned too!

DonHardstyle

Fake roles aint the issue, dd que times are. I am not going to wait half a hour to get my rdnd done. So i que as healer and get a group instant. Nope i do not slot a group heal either. And nope i also wil not stop queueing as healer.

Tbf, for normal dungeons you baraly need a tank or a healer.

Rowjoh

I've been criticised by low level groupmates on several occasions for taunting, grouping and killing adds, then hogging the bosses, because they felt redundant.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Blood_again

As illustrated, the source of the problem is that some people are convinced their time is more valuable than the others' one.
I see the only way to solve it: make their queue time longer, so faking roles won't save their time as they planned. No time saved - no motivation to fake the role.

We don't need any new rating or reputation system for it. We have the natural one - black list.
Just make the dungeon finder take in account the blacklist. If I'm blackisted by any of the group candidate, I'll be pushed one position back, the next player in queue joins this group.

Pros:

• It won't affect me much, if I'm blacklisted by a few random people.
• It will seriously affect me, if I'm faking all the time. Many dungeoneers blacklist me - my queue time raises despite queuing as a tank/healer.
• It can't be exploited to short my queue by blacklisting many people, because my blacklist is checked only when my time is coming.
• I won't find myself in the group with the same fake, if I blacklisted that guy. Less frustration.
• It won't punish fakes forewer, because active dungeoneers need to clear their blacklist to add a new irritating fake. Blacklist is limited.

Cons:

• It can make the queue longer for beginners. Unfortunately some players hate running with them.
• Updating the old finder is risky. Well, I hope devs will manage it.

ClowdyAllDay

For most random normal dungeons roles are a suggestion not a mandate or a law.

I only play healers but all healers should have one bar for healing and one for dd. And I never use healing sets much. If I were to use a healing set it would be jorvulds.

So since I don’t comply with trial requirements I don’t worry what someone says I should wear. Therefore I don’t do trials.

My preferred sets are orders wrath and either heartland conqueror or even better, gourmands from Galen.

Max crit rate, max crit damage, max pen matter more than most other max percent healing nonsense. Also when dual wielding I use crusher and weakening on the blades ( axe or dagger depending on stam or mag build)

People should rethink what a healer does and looks like.

Sakiri

Healers job is heals and buffs, there's no need to rethink it.

RomanRex

DonHardstyle wrote: »

So i que as healer and get a group instant. Nope i do not slot a group heal either. And nope i also wil not stop queueing as healer.

this isn’t a solo game.

if you want to cue for a group event and purposefully don’t do what you said you would when you cued, it’s mega trolly. you can’t even slot one heal? like wtf?

create a group finder and label it “LF 3 other DPS for daily random”

RexyCat

DonHardstyle wrote: »

Fake roles aint the issue, dd que times are. I am not going to wait half a hour to get my rdnd done. So i que as healer and get a group instant. Nope i do not slot a group heal either. And nope i also wil not stop queueing as healer.

Tbf, for normal dungeons you baraly need a tank or a healer.

Role selection for group content are useless as there is no check of skills that belong to that role that have selected in Group and Activity Finder have been equipped, neither if tank have enough HP to be able to take some hits before getting down or Healer have buffs to sustain both self and group. Damage Dealers don't have enough DPS etc.

The main issue with having checks for Group and Activity Finder is that it would increase load on server, would need proper method to decide that any role is really set correctly (matching criteria between selected role and what can be detected from character without make use of test phase) and also increase time for "real" tank, healer or DD.

The "easy" solution for most MMOs and ESO have been to let players figure this out before they start to run Dungeons. Then we also have template system (Armory) which could make a fake tank/heaer/DD player change gear and setup on the spot when they get into that dungeon, so there is no way to make this to work to only have "real" roles picked and confirmed before dungeon will start. Don't forget that before you get into any Dungeon you might want to have another set up then in dungeon and most player don't want to mess with gear, skill points, CP before when they get a message that they can now TP to Dungeon.

One solution could be to force a standard set up (Armory) depending what role that when player enter dungeon would auto equip and when that role have been picked in GAF and then return to another default set up when leaving dungeon. Selecting healer and you would need to have gear (incl weapon and skills) that are healing gear, CP set for healing and remove Companions or set up a default Companion

sarahthes

The problem with enforcing roles on normal content is the queue times will dramatically increase because so few people play tanks.

The reason so few people play tanks are numerous, but the main reason I don't queue as a real tank (even though I'm a perfectly competent, experienced, fully geared tank player) is because damage is often appallingly low in dungeons. At least if I queue as a DD with a taunt, I know stuff will die relatively fast.

El_Borracho

Someone has to say it, so here goes: Fake tanks are only a problem when the DPS is weak. Otherwise, nobody notices. Fake healers? I can't remember the last time I needed healing in a random normal. If you want a real tank and healer, run a veteran dungeon.

Fake roles are endemic in random normals because random normals do not require tanks and healers. This is like someone complaining that there are fake sub-Level 50 people in the U50 campaign and organized groups in the solo BGs queue. Its part of the game.

Its time to move on from this complaint. "Solving" this problem by banning people or locking roles or gear checks or "role tests" (the worst suggestion I've seen) will not do anything but aggravate players. I don't fake queue but I don't get upset when someone else does. Its not worth the energy to treat this as a personal insult or a grave breach of the social contract. Lighten up, Francis.

If you can't get through normal Darkshade 1 with a fake tank, a real tank is not going to help.

Vulkunne

The current 'model' for group role composition is not optimal for all dungeon runs. What we have now are more like 'guidelines' rather than a best fit. Depending on the run, for less intensive mechanics both Tanks and Healers can and should provide DPS, which is really what matters for those places. Think Spindle or something else like Darkshade for example.

Other runs yeah you want the Traditional Tank, Healer, Damage Dealers etc however even in these instances, how do we find players who meet a certain level of experience, class/skill maturity and build accessibility to properly 'fit' into the role for a Traditional group? Think uh Vet Malatar (esp hm) or Oathsworn Pit or Icereach, so on, so forth. In these cases a Tradition role, such as a Traditional Tank, is only as good as the group that supports them and vsv.

Certain mythics can also make roles obsolete in some instances or provide enough utility to enable one to solo content that in times past required a group. In short, mythics and non-intensive mechanics have an effect on group composition which in turn has an effect on role participation. This is why it's difficult to measure a player's level of participation within a given role because under certain circumstances that role in question may not really measure up to the content itself.

My solution to this conundrum is to let the group leader decide on the composition of group roles. If they want 4 damage dealers, which includes them with a taunt, I see no problem with that. If they want 2 Tanks and 2 DPS, if the content requires something like this then the group foundation should be flexible and not forced. Not Forced. Forcing everyone into 2 DPS, 1 Heals and 1 Tank will solve the problem but only for some dungeons, others will be lacking DPS where they don't need a Tank/Healer maybe. They could leave the current roles as like a Default Template however until its understood that group composition for raids is something dynamic, something flexible, depending on the content, and players understand this as well, then we will not be on the same page.

Soarora

So, I’ve been running as DPS in vet queues rather than tanks lately, as I’m working on getting a perspective on what tanks in the queue are like. I have not seen many fake tanks but the ones I have always are clearly noobish— low CP and/or a bad build that makes them just a bad DPS who queued as tank. Somehow newbies are getting the idea that it’s okay to fake queue. I don’t know if it’s from other newbies, or from people who fake roles and are good at it, or people who fake roles because they do not care at all about other people… but I think specifically something should be done to discourage new players from queueing as a fake role. After all, theres a big difference between a tank main tanking a dungeon on a dps or an endgame dps main tanking a normal dungeon on a dps, than having a new player with 10k DPS queue as a tank. Maybe harsher CP requirements for vet dungeons are in order, or a temporary role check (requiring heavy armor, snb, taunt, etc to queue as tank) for queues that gets lifted after a certain CP or other goal is triggered. Could also do a permanent role check where it just looks for tank = taunt, healer = heal of some sort. 3dps runs usually have at least one dps run echoing vigor anyways, or they’ll just port in.

Edit: I don’t know if they’re getting the fake tank idea from running in normals? You’d think that it’d be assumed that it wouldn’t work so well in veteran but maybe not. If that’s the case, maybe a pop-up when they go to queue for vet should mention not fake queueing or something… I’d suggest buffing normal so bosses direct damage (or at least HAs) hit harder but I think that’d be unpopular.

RomanRex

Soarora wrote: »

So, I’ve been running as DPS in vet queues rather than tanks lately, as I’m working on getting a perspective on what tanks in the queue are like. I have not seen many fake tanks but the ones I have always are clearly noobish— low CP and/or a bad build that makes them just a bad DPS who queued as tank. Somehow newbies are getting the idea that it’s okay to fake queue. I don’t know if it’s from other newbies, or from people who fake roles and are good at it, or people who fake roles because they do not care at all about other people… but I think specifically something should be done to discourage new players from queueing as a fake role. After all, theres a big difference between a tank main tanking a dungeon on a dps or an endgame dps main tanking a normal dungeon on a dps, than having a new player with 10k DPS queue as a tank. Maybe harsher CP requirements for vet dungeons are in order, or a temporary role check (requiring heavy armor, snb, taunt, etc to queue as tank) for queues that gets lifted after a certain CP or other goal is triggered. Could also do a permanent role check where it just looks for tank = taunt, healer = heal of some sort. 3dps runs usually have at least one dps run echoing vigor anyways, or they’ll just port in.

players who just want a fast cue (like the guy above who purposefully as healer with no heals) would just cue with a heal on their bar and then change out when they get into the dungeon.

Veinblood1965

I used to be on the anti-fake role side of the fence. I have a tank and a healer which I normally use to run PUG dungeons when I am after certain items so I don't have to wait in long queue times.

Recently I started levelling Undaunted for my Nightblade for PVP and had to wait in 20 minute queue times. If a fake tank queues up and can at least slap a taunt on then that makes my queue time go down. At least on normal dungeons except for a few newer ones tanks are not even needed.

A simple solution would be for Zos to make alternate queue for ANY group role to join. If you sign up for the non-role queue then you at least know you may not be getting a tank or a healer and it's up to you to survive.

Soarora

RomanRex wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

So, I’ve been running as DPS in vet queues rather than tanks lately, as I’m working on getting a perspective on what tanks in the queue are like. I have not seen many fake tanks but the ones I have always are clearly noobish— low CP and/or a bad build that makes them just a bad DPS who queued as tank. Somehow newbies are getting the idea that it’s okay to fake queue. I don’t know if it’s from other newbies, or from people who fake roles and are good at it, or people who fake roles because they do not care at all about other people… but I think specifically something should be done to discourage new players from queueing as a fake role. After all, theres a big difference between a tank main tanking a dungeon on a dps or an endgame dps main tanking a normal dungeon on a dps, than having a new player with 10k DPS queue as a tank. Maybe harsher CP requirements for vet dungeons are in order, or a temporary role check (requiring heavy armor, snb, taunt, etc to queue as tank) for queues that gets lifted after a certain CP or other goal is triggered. Could also do a permanent role check where it just looks for tank = taunt, healer = heal of some sort. 3dps runs usually have at least one dps run echoing vigor anyways, or they’ll just port in.

players who just want a fast cue (like the guy above who purposefully as healer with no heals) would just cue with a heal on their bar and then change out when they get into the dungeon.

If they fake queue as a healer and then take off the heal on their bar when they get in there, they’re just asking for death. I don’t queue normals exactly for the same reasons people complain about, so I can’t comment on damage taken in normals. But if there’s no healer in vet because you’re fake queueing, then logically you should have a self heal at least because no ones gonna save you when you inevitably take damage.

Orbital78

DonHardstyle wrote: »

Fake roles aint the issue, dd que times are. I am not going to wait half a hour to get my rdnd done. So i que as healer and get a group instant. Nope i do not slot a group heal either. And nope i also wil not stop queueing as healer.

Tbf, for normal dungeons you baraly need a tank or a healer.

Vet DD queue times are rather quick unless it is way off hours. I only occasionally run into fake roles then, and it has loot actually somewhat worth running for. Less worry about ruining new players experience with wanting to get your thousandth base game dungeon over with etc.

Soarora

Orbital78 wrote: »

DonHardstyle wrote: »

Fake roles aint the issue, dd que times are. I am not going to wait half a hour to get my rdnd done. So i que as healer and get a group instant. Nope i do not slot a group heal either. And nope i also wil not stop queueing as healer.

Tbf, for normal dungeons you baraly need a tank or a healer.

Vet DD queue times are rather quick unless it is way off hours. I only occasionally run into fake roles then, and it has loot actually somewhat worth running for. Less worry about ruining new players experience with wanting to get your thousandth base game dungeon over with etc.

This is true. It may not have the sheer speed of normals, but it sounds like normal queue has somehow become more painful than vet queue? I was used to vet queue taking like 15+ minutes, even 30+ for a DPS. Takes less than 10 minutes nowadays.

Orbital78

For people who complain about fake roles all the time, be a part of the solution and make a tank or healer. You're not forced to be a dps, I made a tank specifically to get gear for my DPS. Normals require next to no skill as a tank and it will teach you more mechs.

Vulkunne

Soarora wrote: »

So, I’ve been running as DPS in vet queues rather than tanks lately, as I’m working on getting a perspective on what tanks in the queue are like. I have not seen many fake tanks but the ones I have always are clearly noobish— low CP and/or a bad build that makes them just a bad DPS who queued as tank. Somehow newbies are getting the idea that it’s okay to fake queue. I don’t know if it’s from other newbies, or from people who fake roles and are good at it, or people who fake roles because they do not care at all about other people… but I think specifically something should be done to discourage new players from queueing as a fake role. After all, theres a big difference between a tank main tanking a dungeon on a dps or an endgame dps main tanking a normal dungeon on a dps, than having a new player with 10k DPS queue as a tank. Maybe harsher CP requirements for vet dungeons are in order, or a temporary role check (requiring heavy armor, snb, taunt, etc to queue as tank) for queues that gets lifted after a certain CP or other goal is triggered. Could also do a permanent role check where it just looks for tank = taunt, healer = heal of some sort. 3dps runs usually have at least one dps run echoing vigor anyways, or they’ll just port in.

Edit: I don’t know if they’re getting the fake tank idea from running in normals? You’d think that it’d be assumed that it wouldn’t work so well in veteran but maybe not. If that’s the case, maybe a pop-up when they go to queue for vet should mention not fake queueing or something… I’d suggest buffing normal so bosses direct damage (or at least HAs) hit harder but I think that’d be unpopular.

As long as you have like a 'grab bag' random pool then you're going to get whatever you get. If they come down too hard on new players then that kills new players entry into larger things.

What would help is if they altered the group formation to allow everyone to preview the group instead of just grabbing folks and going in. The problem with that of course, is if I'm running say Maarselok on vet I don't want any low level cp folks in my group for obvious reasons. It doesn't matter if you like the way I said that, because others will say worse and do worse to either leave the group or kick them out. But at least with the way things are, low levels get thrown in and often times have a chance at completing the run with everyone else.

I'm just saying if we get too particular about this then it will serve to auto-cut some and others like low level cp folks will be waiting forever to get a run because no one running vet will want them on their team. And I would also say that as a tank, if I have to be scanned and poked and proded before the run even starts I might just not run PvE content anymore because my Tank/DPS and so forth live up to my expectations first and foremost. Like it or not, many others, including myself, have been around long enough we know what works. But forcing things may not end up turning out the way some may want them to.

Desiato

I think this is just life in random pick up groups.

When I have a bad experience through the dungeon or group finder, I blame myself because I chose to play in a PUG. It's why I generally won't do vet versions of those things.

As a DPS, I always go into a pug prepared to heal myself. As a healer, I always go into a pug prepared to dps. If necessary, I can slot a taunt. Normals are easy enough to find a way to make it work.

My random dungeon yesterday was 4 dps, but I didn't sweat it and at least we cleared it quickly.

If one can't deal with imperfection, they shouldn't pug and instead try to find a regular/core group.

tincanman

SolarRune wrote: »

...As everyone seems to think fake roles in general are an issue...

Actually, no - many of us recognise it as a non-issue.

The 'problem', if any, is player expectation when using a system which is RANDOM and having expectations that it will give results that are non-random. Accordingly, the 'solution' is that players adjust their expectations when using such RANDOM tools or they pre-form groups so that the only random element is the dungeon chosen by the system.

Sakiri

Castle Thorn, tank has no taunt. Healer keeps getting destroyed. Me and healer leave.

Vet pledge. Get fake dps. I say this because I was healing, no one was killing adds but me(elden hollow 2 i think), boss kept healing and I was doing more damage than they were. Me and the tank had to finish it(HM no less) because they were practically useless with low damage and constantly dead from standing in stuff out in Narnia. Dps that don't stand in between me and the tank don't get healed, I'm not chasing you down.

I don't care if you're a "fake", slot a dang heal or taunt. Heck I leveled inner fire because I'm tired of my buddy's healer getting destroyed.

Sync01

The main issue that I'm seeing is that it seems to get more common to run into fake tank/healers during vet pledges as well, and not just normal randoms. Sure it can be annoying if you don't have a tank or healer in normal but it's not much of an issue because the enemies die so quickly.

It is however an issue if someone queues as a tank for a vet dungeon, does not taunt, and the entire dungeon takes forever because the dds (including the fake tank) are dying constantly. Whatever time they saved on queuing as a tank, they'll lose during the dungeon itself.

While it might be nice in theory to have longer queue times of those who take fake roles, I don't think it will work in reality without punishing new/bad players. Same with having requirements on skills or gear etc because even if everyone who queued as tank were forced to have a taunt they can just decide to not use it etc.

Soarora

Vulkunne wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

So, I’ve been running as DPS in vet queues rather than tanks lately, as I’m working on getting a perspective on what tanks in the queue are like. I have not seen many fake tanks but the ones I have always are clearly noobish— low CP and/or a bad build that makes them just a bad DPS who queued as tank. Somehow newbies are getting the idea that it’s okay to fake queue. I don’t know if it’s from other newbies, or from people who fake roles and are good at it, or people who fake roles because they do not care at all about other people… but I think specifically something should be done to discourage new players from queueing as a fake role. After all, theres a big difference between a tank main tanking a dungeon on a dps or an endgame dps main tanking a normal dungeon on a dps, than having a new player with 10k DPS queue as a tank. Maybe harsher CP requirements for vet dungeons are in order, or a temporary role check (requiring heavy armor, snb, taunt, etc to queue as tank) for queues that gets lifted after a certain CP or other goal is triggered. Could also do a permanent role check where it just looks for tank = taunt, healer = heal of some sort. 3dps runs usually have at least one dps run echoing vigor anyways, or they’ll just port in.

Edit: I don’t know if they’re getting the fake tank idea from running in normals? You’d think that it’d be assumed that it wouldn’t work so well in veteran but maybe not. If that’s the case, maybe a pop-up when they go to queue for vet should mention not fake queueing or something… I’d suggest buffing normal so bosses direct damage (or at least HAs) hit harder but I think that’d be unpopular.

As long as you have like a 'grab bag' random pool then you're going to get whatever you get. If they come down too hard on new players then that kills new players entry into larger things.

What would help is if they altered the group formation to allow everyone to preview the group instead of just grabbing folks and going in. The problem with that of course, is if I'm running say Maarselok on vet I don't want any low level cp folks in my group for obvious reasons. It doesn't matter if you like the way I said that, because others will say worse and do worse to either leave the group or kick them out. But at least with the way things are, low levels get thrown in and often times have a chance at completing the run with everyone else.

I'm just saying if we get too particular about this then it will serve to auto-cut some and others like low level cp folks will be waiting forever to get a run because no one running vet will want them on their team. And I would also say that as a tank, if I have to be scanned and poked and proded before the run even starts I might just not run PvE content anymore because my Tank/DPS and so forth live up to my expectations first and foremost. Like it or not, many others, including myself, have been around long enough we know what works. But forcing things may not end up turning out the way some may want them to.

I think low level CP folks are best off running with other low level CP folks. Not sure if there really is a queue MMR, but I feel like there might be. I remember being new and dungeons were hard, got kicked from higher level groups, but also found groups where it was people around my level and we worked through the dungeon. It was fun. Still happens nowadays, I got into a random group once stuck at the end of banished cells and they were discussing mechanics. I ended up just burning the boss haha. Made me happy to see theres still runs like that though, that was my happiest time in dungeons. Now most are too easy, so I get my entertainment from bad PuGs (frustrating but entertaining) and good PuGs (helping people learn who want to learn). I don’t stand to benefit from a loss of fake roles as much as I don’t like them, because it’s entertaining and I play all roles myself, but I understand it can cause problems if its someones first time in a dungeon and they can’t clear it because a noobish player is failing to fulfill the role they queued as in any capacity (again, 10k DPS queueing as a tank example).

Just checking if someone has anything at all that’d apply a taunt before queueing as tank I don’t think is overstepping though (even a chain, that is painful to taunt with but it does taunt). Same for any heal, even if it’s only a self heal (like green vigor, can’t have the fake healer topple over dead for lack of healing).

Edit: and yes, I know you “can” tank using threat but it’s a big gamble on if you truly have enough healing and damage to outcompete other players, let alone mechanics that’d throw off threat. After all, I will reiterate, I cant comment on normals. All my comments refer to vet.

Morvan

The main problem with that discussion is what most people consider a fake role. If a DPS queues as a tank, takes aggro on all bosses and is capable of surviving whatever they're running, then they ARE a real tank.

Builds DO NOT define roles in this game, a DPS who can tank a normal dg is no less tank than a "real" tank, as long as they are doing what is expected from them as a tank, then they ARE the tank, it doesn't matter if they running shield or have 40k HP or not.

If done correctly, "fake" queueing is beneficial for the game, no one wants to spend 40 minutes on a queue to complete a 8 minutes long dungeon, normal dungeons are easily soloable and there's no reason to prevent "fake" roles if you can literally solo them even as a mediocre DPS.

But of course, if a guy on a fake role is not tanking properly then that's what the kicking feature is for.

Sync01

I think there is some MMR because I tend to get put together with players that are below 1000 CP when I do randoms on my alts that I haven't played on much, but I very rarely get grouped with anyone under 1000 CP on my main characters.

Soarora

Sync01 wrote: »

I think there is some MMR because I tend to get put together with players that are below 1000 CP when I do randoms on my alts that I haven't played on much, but I very rarely get grouped with anyone under 1000 CP on my main characters.

I agree. New characters seem to get longer random vet queues than the ones I usually play (even between tanks!) and it’s uncommon I see people with low cp, rare I see people under 160. These people still exist, I’m sure, but I’m thinking they’re more likely in groups with other low CP people.
Thank you for the support that I’m not crazy lol!

Adaarye

The thing is that these are PUG groups.

There are no guarantees. Anyone who queues for a PUG needs to know and by necessity needs to accept it and just get the random done.

If players want a group with organised roles, quest completion, no deaths, speed run .. etc, then group with a guild or friends.

Ezhh

Sync01 wrote: »

I think there is some MMR because I tend to get put together with players that are below 1000 CP when I do randoms on my alts that I haven't played on much, but I very rarely get grouped with anyone under 1000 CP on my main characters.

I started a new account during the PTS ban incident and for both random normals, and the few vet runs I did for a couple of drops, did not get placed with anyone beyond I think 600 CP. And it was mostly non-CP people in the normals and 100 to 200 CP (usually under 160) in the vets.

When I run on my usual account it's rare to see anyone under maybe 1.5k CP and I don't remember the last time I saw anyone under 300CP or so.

Fake roles were a bigger issue on vets with the low CP account due to this, but even then not too big a deal. I can see why it might be a big deal for players under a certain level of experience, but on my main account there never seems to be an issue with fakes.

Artim_X

Standardized incentive systems tracking damage taken, taunt up time on prioritiy enemies, utility skills used, damage done, buffs given, etc. Similar to tracking done in battlegrounds.

This is a purely positive thing that results in better rewards (more transmutes, curated based on stickerbook jewelery/weapon drops, Undaunted plunder, motifs for vet, higher quality gear drops in vet, etc.).

A negative system could cause problems so even if you play a fake role, you would still get the regular rewards you would expect from a clear. However, a very optimized DPS queued as DPS would get more rewards than a fake tank doing similar damage.

The rewards for support could be more weighted so more people would be interested in playing support.