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What will ZOS have to take from us next so we can have our latest shiny new toy?
moderatelyfatman
✭✭✭✭✭
The Story so far:
First of all, I am not a tech person so my understanding of game engines is limited at best, but I don't think anyone denies that the game is likely running at the limit that the last generation consoles (PS4) can provide? This would suggest that we are in a zero-sum stage of the game where, to get anything new, we will need to give something up.
So my questions are threefold:
1) Where do you think are some of the future areas of the game that will likely get downsized?
2) What do you think might be worth downsizing in exchange for something new you'd like?
3) What do you think the devs must NEVER NEVER touch?
PS: An example of (2) is in a different post where I had suggested that it might be worth making style motifs and/or recipes account-bound if it meant we could get a new weapon skill line.
Edited by moderatelyfatman on May 15, 2024 9:46AM - I can't remember which dev was interviewed who said it took two years of trimming to get enough memory to launch the new Arcanist class.
- I also remember someone commenting that ZOS made achievements account-bound rather than character-bound to free up enough memory to give us Tales of Tribune.
- Back in patch 35 one of the changes was that a significant number of HoTs and DoTs were switched over to ticking every 2 seconds rather than one second to improve performance.
- And now we have mail and guild trader items being cut from four weeks to two weeks.
First of all, I am not a tech person so my understanding of game engines is limited at best, but I don't think anyone denies that the game is likely running at the limit that the last generation consoles (PS4) can provide? This would suggest that we are in a zero-sum stage of the game where, to get anything new, we will need to give something up.
So my questions are threefold:
1) Where do you think are some of the future areas of the game that will likely get downsized?
2) What do you think might be worth downsizing in exchange for something new you'd like?
3) What do you think the devs must NEVER NEVER touch?
PS: An example of (2) is in a different post where I had suggested that it might be worth making style motifs and/or recipes account-bound if it meant we could get a new weapon skill line.
17
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ApoAlaia✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭1) Everything that uses an oversized model. Too many pixels, gotta save on those. They are in limited supply if the prices for cosmetics are anything to go by.
2) Remove RNG. RNG forces players to repeat the same content over and over again for an often minuscule chance of a desired outcome; removing this would create breathing room for new content.
3) Lyris' Axe. You do that at your own peril.
Edited by ApoAlaia on May 15, 2024 10:20AM4 -
Danikat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Does anyone know where this info came from? I know the OP said they can't remember but I hadn't heard that they had to remove things in order to add new stuff to the game.PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
"Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"13 -
Araneae6537✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭1) I have no idea. I rather hope for a different solution. I didn’t mind the elimination of separate timers though — to me, that was a good thing. Can’t we expand? Doesn’t the game make enough to justify it? I love to have options and there are fun details I would be sad to see go. 🥺
2) ToT Sorry, but it never made sense to have a CCG of a game existing within the game itself. You could have a game representing an aspect — like maybe knights or court intrigue would have fit what I’d hoped High Isle would be. Or a game invented by some Daedra as their vision of the mortal world might have been some crazy fun.
3) Too much to list… 🥺6 -
Vrelanier✭✭✭ZoS can probably stop support for PS4. PS5 is 4 years old. If you chose to play on console, you chose to follow console generations. Same goes with pc: at some point our old computers just don't run newer and updated games anymore and we have to upgrade the machines. ESO isn't supposed to be the same game it was 10 years ago. That'd be dumb.
Or maybe they can make ESO2 for newer pc's and consoles? Let us migrate our characters if we so will. And bring back character achievements while they're at it.
1) What might get downsized in the future: From what I've read in the forums, pvp has been going downhill for years now, so maybe ZoS lets it run it's course until no one plays it due to lag and terrible updates, and then ZoS stops it and says it's because no one plays it.
2) Worth downsizing imo: Flashy mount summons and things that glow, but that's just because I don't really like them.
3) What they shouldn't touch: I'm not gonna give them any ideas about the stuff that's important to me.Edited by Vrelanier on May 15, 2024 12:15PM22 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Does anyone know where this info came from? I know the OP said they can't remember but I hadn't heard that they had to remove things in order to add new stuff to the game.
When achievements were switched from character-specific to account-wide, it was initially announced in a broadcast as being something everyone wanted. When it quickly became clear that wasn't the case, and there was an unprecedented backlash against it on the PTS forum from both those who never wanted it, and those who did want it but not in the way it was being introduced, ZOS switched tack and said it was to relieve pressure on the database and allow future content additions.23 -
Four_Fingers✭✭✭✭✭
✭Or maybe go back in time and learn how to code efficiently like we had to in the old days.23 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Does anyone know where this info came from? I know the OP said they can't remember but I hadn't heard that they had to remove things in order to add new stuff to the game.
I recognize a lot of that as speculation and interpretation by the players.Does anyone know where this info came from? I know the OP said they can't remember but I hadn't heard that they had to remove things in order to add new stuff to the game.
When achievements were switched from character-specific to account-wide, it was initially announced in a broadcast as being something everyone wanted. When it quickly became clear that wasn't the case, and there was an unprecedented backlash against it on the PTS forum from both those who never wanted it, and those who did want it but not in the way it was being introduced, ZOS switched tack and said it was to relieve pressure on the database and allow future content additions.
Yes. The ESO databases are massive. Lambert mentioned the size of just one of them on his stream. In total, think of the largest thing you can imagine, then double that and add in a little for good measure.
I expect that if we knew how much storage ZOS had for databases, most people would have to run to Google to find out what that word meant. If you think about it, they are constantly growing larger as new players make new accounts that have new characters with new experiences in the game.
An MMO is basically a set of databases with a game slapped on the front.
The net is that I don't think that "account wide motifs and styles" is going to do anything but make the player "motifs and styles" database smaller, grow at a slower rate, and perhaps perform better. A good thing, in the long term.
Will this open the door for a new weapon? Meh. I would suggest that it could benefit from not having to store an additional weapon style for every motif and style for each character. If they are thinking of doing account-wide motifs and styles, I would certainly do that first. However, my opinion is that it is the weapon itself, along with the massive amount of art that has to be completed, that hinders/delays/stops/prevents a new weapon. All of the styles, including the weapon style packs, have to be updated by an artist. That is not a trivial, "can I have it by Friday", sort of thing.
Personally, I don't think that a new weapon is blocked by limitations of the engine, servers, clients, or databases as much as it is blocked or hindered simply by the amount of work required to develop a new weapon. Given how long it might take to do weapon art, it may well be that they are working on a new weapon, and have been for a couple years. We can't tell.8 -
Icy_Waffles✭✭✭✭✭1) Everything that uses an oversized model. Too many pixels, gotta save on those. They are in limited supply if the prices for cosmetics are anything to go by.
2) Remove RNG. RNG forces players to repeat the same content over and over again for an often minuscule chance of a desired outcome; removing this would create breathing room for new content.
3) Lyris' Axe. You do that at your own peril.
Wait what’s wrong with Lyris’ Axe?0 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Things they COULD remove that I don't think anyone would cry about:
1. remove all of the clutter on the ground in Cyrodil. planks, wagons, fallen logs, etc. that don't necessarily add a lot to the game other than to make it more difficult for you to maneuver in a large scale fight. I'm not talking the Palisades and other structures, I'm just talking about the random clutter on the ground.
2. Harvest nodes in Cyrodil. Nobody farms in Cyrodil. Just remove the nodes, and change all of the random rewards you would get from the nodes (war torte) to a very slight chance to be rewarded from rewards of the worthy. Reward pvp players with a PVP reward (imagine that!)
3. The entire dialog from the champion of Dragon Star Arena. Remove his voice acting, subtitled, etc. Basically make it as if he is just a silent end-boss to the Arena. Seriously, nobody likes him. NOBODY!11 -
furiouslog✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BXR_Lonestar wrote: »Things they COULD remove that I don't think anyone would cry about:
1. remove all of the clutter on the ground in Cyrodil. planks, wagons, fallen logs, etc. that don't necessarily add a lot to the game other than to make it more difficult for you to maneuver in a large scale fight. I'm not talking the Palisades and other structures, I'm just talking about the random clutter on the ground.
2. Harvest nodes in Cyrodil. Nobody farms in Cyrodil. Just remove the nodes, and change all of the random rewards you would get from the nodes (war torte) to a very slight chance to be rewarded from rewards of the worthy. Reward pvp players with a PVP reward (imagine that!)
3. The entire dialog from the champion of Dragon Star Arena. Remove his voice acting, subtitled, etc. Basically make it as if he is just a silent end-boss to the Arena. Seriously, nobody likes him. NOBODY!
i like the DSA guy, and a guildie farms Cyrodil exclusively because of the book and other random stuff. He likes it.
I can leave the giant pauses between brazier spawns in DSA, though. Always annoying.5 -
ApoAlaia✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Icy_Waffles wrote: »1) Everything that uses an oversized model. Too many pixels, gotta save on those. They are in limited supply if the prices for cosmetics are anything to go by.
2) Remove RNG. RNG forces players to repeat the same content over and over again for an often minuscule chance of a desired outcome; removing this would create breathing room for new content.
3) Lyris' Axe. You do that at your own peril.
Wait what’s wrong with Lyris’ Axe?
If you try to touch it she might object... vehemently.0 -
Alaztor91✭✭✭✭✭
✭1) Character-wide Motif knowledge. If ZOS actually made Achievements account-wide to improve performance, then it's safe to assume that Motifs are next. I doubt that many people buy them from the Crown Store for extra alts(or at all) and the Master Writ bonus chance for learning more is irrelevant. I guess the same could also apply for Plans/Recipes.
2) See above.
3) Combat Mechanics. I wouldn't like to see cool skills or combat in general be simplified just so ZOS can add another ToT deck or Radiant Apex mount to the game.Edited by Alaztor91 on May 15, 2024 8:04PM5 -
tincanman✭✭✭✭✭
✭1) Character-wide Motif knowledge. If ZOS actually made Achievements account-wide to improve performance, then it's safe to assume that Motifs are next. I doubt that many people buy them from the Crown Store for extra alts(or at all) and the Master Writ bonus chance for learning more is irrelevant. I guess the same could also apply for Plans/Recipes.
....
I hope this isn't prescient but I suspect you are right.
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Dojohoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Remove the constant red glow from the nightblade. That could save lots of something something technical. YeahFan of playing magblade since 2015. (PC NA)
Might be joking in comments.
-->(((Cyrodiil)))<--22 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Does anyone know where this info came from? I know the OP said they can't remember but I hadn't heard that they had to remove things in order to add new stuff to the game.
It's a common player speculation based on timing but I can't personally recall them ever saying that. The closest I've seen them say is that they needed to make performance improvements before being able to add anything new to Cyrodiil. For sure the community blamed AWA on TOT just because it was the first new feature after TOT. But, I personally think it was likely for Arcanist since they had already made the statement about Cyrodiil and Arcanist impacts Cyrodiil. They'd been working on it years long before it was released.
But my guess is as good as anyone else's.Edited by spartaxoxo on May 15, 2024 11:41PM0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BXR_Lonestar wrote: »The entire dialog from the champion of Dragon Star Arena. Remove his voice acting, subtitled, etc. Basically make it as if he is just a silent end-boss to the Arena. Seriously, nobody likes him. NOBODY!
I like him a lot, actually.3 -
Just_Attivi✭✭✭✭*tin foil hat on*
I think they introduce a 'New PVP mode'' at the end of the year. hopefully its a greater success than tales of tribute (i predict its a 24 man deathmatch free for all, but honestly id settle for being able to just select deathmatch in BGs again)
then they shut down cyrodiil pvp due to performance/lacking player base (by comparison to the PVE crowd) and the 'new' pvp mode being dominant (this frees up tons of memory and performance and customer support because no cyro issues)
Next years chapter expands gold road story into the rest of cyrodiil as a PVE landscape, divided into 3 sections, DC side, EP side, AD side (3 years of content maybe?! and the assets are all already there! PVE'ers rejoice!)
IC pvp gets shut down due to problems with code from changing cyrodiil or some crazy spaghetti nonsense
Gold Road/cyrodiil chapters end in an IC PVE chapter, where molag bal came back and stole all the khajiits cakes, and now we need to banish him again. (a 4th year of chapter content in a zone already made! so much memory saved!)
*tin foil hat off*
7 -
blktauna✭✭✭✭✭
✭If this "new pvp mode" is something other than actual combat, I would not want to be in ZOSs shoes. Enough people were enraged at them calling that dumb card game pvp that I hope they got the hint and don't plan to antagonise people even more. It's disrepectfulPCNA
PCEU10 -
vsrs_au✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭My best guess is ZOS will take this thread from us next.
I mean, it's basically a ZOS-bashing thread. PC(Steam) / EU / play from Melbourne, Australia / avg ping 3905 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Does anyone know where this info came from? I know the OP said they can't remember but I hadn't heard that they had to remove things in order to add new stuff to the game.
I recognize a lot of that as speculation and interpretation by the players.Does anyone know where this info came from? I know the OP said they can't remember but I hadn't heard that they had to remove things in order to add new stuff to the game.
When achievements were switched from character-specific to account-wide, it was initially announced in a broadcast as being something everyone wanted. When it quickly became clear that wasn't the case, and there was an unprecedented backlash against it on the PTS forum from both those who never wanted it, and those who did want it but not in the way it was being introduced, ZOS switched tack and said it was to relieve pressure on the database and allow future content additions.
Yes. The ESO databases are massive. Lambert mentioned the size of just one of them on his stream. In total, think of the largest thing you can imagine, then double that and add in a little for good measure. I expect that if we knew how much storage ZOS had for databases, most people would have to run to Google to find out what that word meant. If you think about it, they are constantly growing larger as new players make new accounts that have new characters with new experiences in the game.
An MMO is basically a set of databases with a game slapped on the front.
The net is that I don't think that "account wide motifs and styles" is going to do anything but make the player "motifs and styles" database smaller, grow at a slower rate, and perhaps perform better. A good thing, in the long term.
Will this open the door for a new weapon? Meh. I would suggest that it could benefit from not having to store an additional weapon style for every motif and style for each character. If they are thinking of doing account-wide motifs and styles, I would certainly do that first. However, my opinion is that it is the weapon itself, along with the massive amount of art that has to be completed, that hinders/delays/stops/prevents a new weapon. All of the styles, including the weapon style packs, have to be updated by an artist. That is not a trivial, "can I have it by Friday", sort of thing.
Personally, I don't think that a new weapon is blocked by limitations of the engine, servers, clients, or databases as much as it is blocked or hindered simply by the amount of work required to develop a new weapon. Given how long it might take to do weapon art, it may well be that they are working on a new weapon, and have been for a couple years. We can't tell.
In general, you are correct about both parts.
Zenimax has noted that the number of systems they have added to the game since its launch is a big source of server performance issues. Although many developers add new systems to their games, this is the first major MMORPG title I have played that has seen server performance degrade like this.
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TheImperfect✭✭✭✭✭
✭BXR_Lonestar wrote: »Things they COULD remove that I don't think anyone would cry about:
1. remove all of the clutter on the ground in Cyrodil. planks, wagons, fallen logs, etc. that don't necessarily add a lot to the game other than to make it more difficult for you to maneuver in a large scale fight. I'm not talking the Palisades and other structures, I'm just talking about the random clutter on the ground.
2. Harvest nodes in Cyrodil. Nobody farms in Cyrodil. Just remove the nodes, and change all of the random rewards you would get from the nodes (war torte) to a very slight chance to be rewarded from rewards of the worthy. Reward pvp players with a PVP reward (imagine that!)
3. The entire dialog from the champion of Dragon Star Arena. Remove his voice acting, subtitled, etc. Basically make it as if he is just a silent end-boss to the Arena. Seriously, nobody likes him. NOBODY!
It's just my opinion, but it's as valid as yours, but I disagree on every point.1 -
Paulytnz✭✭✭✭✭I love it how it is always consoles that takes the blame for things. What about people playing on old gen computers? I am sure there are far, far, far more of them.
Having said that, to answer the question of this thread - it's obvious, restrict or remove the ability to play on the older consoles AND OLDER COMPUTERS.
Other games do it over time, so it's inevitable. The only question is, will ZOS first of all try to trim down on other elements of the game for a similar effect.
On a personal note, I hope they remove the character bound settings. Seriously, every time I make a new char I really DON'T want to have to get the game settings to how I like them, examples:
Changing text size
Changing guild chat colours
Changing camera settings
Changing display of other player/NPCs names
The list goes on and on and on.....Edited by Paulytnz on May 16, 2024 6:29AMPlease support my Quality of Life Suggestions here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/578316/qol-suggestions#latest8 -
daim✭✭✭✭✭1) Convert to account (or rather server) wide: motifs and recipes. It's also QoL so win-win.
2) I don't know what can improve the game perfomance equally but I would really want to see sharper textures, especially on equipment (and if not possible maybe update at least the vanilla gear textures). All in all, all overall eye-candy stuff is welcome addition imo.
3) Combat, that's why I'm here. Of course some tweaking is fine but basic stuff how the combat feels, don't mess with that.On a personal note, I hope they remove the character bound settings. Seriously, every time I make a new char I really DON'T want to have to get the game settings to how I like them, examples:
Changing text size
Changing guild chat colours
Changing camera settings
Changing display of other player/NPCs names
The list goes on and on and on.....
Yea that's odd design and it's been like that for 10 years. But at least we can have some individuality per character so if that's the trade of then it's fine. At least you only have to tweak the options once when you create a new character and that's something I do pretty rarely.""I am that which grips the heart in fright, hearkens night and silences the light." It was written on my sword, long…long ago." ―Ajunta Pall
PC|EU0 -
moderatelyfatman✭✭✭✭✭Just_Attivi wrote: »*tin foil hat on*
I think they introduce a 'New PVP mode'' at the end of the year. hopefully its a greater success than tales of tribute (i predict its a 24 man deathmatch free for all, but honestly id settle for being able to just select deathmatch in BGs again)
*tin foil hat off*
As someone with a bigger tin foil hat, I'd cynically say that the new 24 man deathmatch will be Cyrodiil after the next round of population cap reductions!
9 -
loosej✭✭✭✭1. I'd rather not provide ideas.
2. If the database is really that large and complex, they could remove the eso+ requirement to use the craft bag. I get that it's a smart move from a business perspective, since it's a good way to convince people to subscribe. But when it comes to data storage, it's an extremely expensive move. I've been subscribed to eso+ for the last 2 years or so, and during that time every piece of crafting material i had, no matter the amount, needed 1 data record for storage for my entire account. This time I decided to vote with my wallet and not renew my membership, but I have no intention to stop playing. This means that my crafting materials are now getting spread out between my (previously filled) craft bag, bank, and individual character inventories. With 20 characters running daily writs, every type of crafting material will now need up to 22 data records for my account, just to try and get me subscribed again. I'm curious if that cost/benefit analysis ever happened.
3. I'd rather not provide ideas.2 -
silky_soft✭✭✭✭✭
✭They'll remove shield stacking next, just have major and minor shields, only ultimate skill shields having their own uniqueness. Scale size off % of HP.
Shield skills themselves can have other options added on like healing, reflect projectile or duration.Here $15, goat mount please. Not gambling or paying 45 : lol :
20% base speed for high ping players.
Streak moves you faster then speed cap.
They should of made 4v4v4v4 instead of 8v8.3
