is it time to admit defeat when it comes to performance?

Lags

Or does zos have something else planned? Because i know they like to pretend that the restructure thing improved performance, but it didnt. It did for a month or so, otherwise its been business as usual. Then there was the multithread thing that seemingly went nowhere, according to the last update on this issue from matt firor last year. And when you go to the eso help page about performance and click on their performance plan you get sent to their plan from back in like 2019-2020.

im just wondering like, at what point when something has been so bad for so long do you just admit defeat? Im not a game developer, i dont write code, i know nothing about this. But what i do know is that, in most careers or businesses, if a part of your product has been working very poorly for 3 4 5 6 7 8 years, with the same type of issue, with no resolution in sight, it comes down to either it cant be fixed or we refuse to invest what is needed to fix it.

10 years is a very long time. If something is a top priority, is 10 years not enough? How about 15? Is that enough? Like if in 5 years time the issue is still the same, would that be when we admit defeat? So many questions, and no answers.

Desiato

If you're talking about Cyrodiil, one should have given up hope years ago. Maybe they'll eventually get it right, but I wouldn't count on it. I can still enjoy it for what it is because there's nothing else like it, but I don't expect it to improve. It is currently an afterthought to ZOS.

The rest of the game performs extremely well for me outside of isolated connectivity incidents like we had last Tuesday.

My client gets a solid 180 FPS which is what I have it capped at. The smooth performance is what drew me back to the game, actually. The animations are so nice on a display with a fast refresh.

I know some players seem to be affected by more lag than usual lately, but that's not something affecting all players.

I've been into trials lately, and they've worked great for me and everyone I've played with. I've been in voice chat through several trials and no one has even mentioned performance issues.

Lags

Desiato wrote: »

If you're talking about Cyrodiil, one should have given up hope years ago. Maybe they'll eventually get it right, but I wouldn't count on it. I can still enjoy it for what it is because there's nothing else like it, but I don't expect it to improve. It is currently an afterthought to ZOS.

The rest of the game performs extremely well for me outside of isolated connectivity incidents like we had last Tuesday.

My client gets a solid 180 FPS which is what I have it capped at. The smooth performance is what drew me back to the game, actually. The animations are so nice on a display with a fast refresh.

I know some players seem to be affected by more lag than usual lately, but that's not something affecting all players.

I've been into trials lately, and they've worked great for me and everyone I've played with. I've been in voice chat through several trials and no one has even mentioned performance issues.

none of this matters. Of course its about cyrodiil, which has been a problem for many years. Of course cyrodiil is where it is always at its worst and mainly gray host but it could happen anywhere if enough people piled into one zone, thankfully for pve players no one does that in eso.

But again none of this is the point. Hope isnt the point. Ive been posting about performance issues since like 2017, i gave up hope a long time ago. Im just wondering if 1, there is anything else they have planned to try and fix this or if 2, its about time they admit defeat considering the game has been out for 10 years and has been on a downward spiral of bad pvp performance since.

Desiato

Yeah, Cyrodiil is probably hopeless.

I quit out of disgust several years ago, but when I returned recently I realized I had to accept the game on its own terms.

Whatever it should have been doesn't matter anymore. It is what it is and no amount of complaining will change that. Getting mad at ZOS about Cyrodiil hasn't worked for 10 years and it's not going to start working now.

If someone is still bothered by it all and it affects them, they should take a step back because it's not healthy to worry about the game when the devs moved on from it a long time ago. it is clearly the lowest priority aspect of the game. They probably think they're doing us a favor by not removing it because it adds so little value to 99.999% of their customers.

ESO is mainly a pve ultra-casual online rpg now. They don't even call it an mmo anymore. PVP enthusiasts should find a game that values them as customers. That's what I did for a few years, but now I'm looking for something more casual, so here I am.

Pelanora

Sometimes I wonder if the 'new mmo' they talk about on their careers site is actually a rebuilt from the ground up ESO.

Cos why start inventing all new design and lore...??

moderatelyfatman

Pelanora wrote: »

Sometimes I wonder if the 'new mmo' they talk about on their careers site is actually a rebuilt from the ground up ESO.

Cos why start inventing all new design and lore...??

This is my dream!
But sadly, ZOS will probably find a way to keep everything we hate about ESO and change everything we love about this game.

moderatelyfatman

Desiato wrote: »

If you're talking about Cyrodiil, one should have given up hope years ago. Maybe they'll eventually get it right, but I wouldn't count on it. I can still enjoy it for what it is because there's nothing else like it, but I don't expect it to improve. It is currently an afterthought to ZOS.

The rest of the game performs extremely well for me outside of isolated connectivity incidents like we had last Tuesday.

My client gets a solid 180 FPS which is what I have it capped at. The smooth performance is what drew me back to the game, actually. The animations are so nice on a display with a fast refresh.

I know some players seem to be affected by more lag than usual lately, but that's not something affecting all players.

I've been into trials lately, and they've worked great for me and everyone I've played with. I've been in voice chat through several trials and no one has even mentioned performance issues.

If the problem was just Cyrodiil then it would be contained.

But even before the PCNA-PTS Planemeld event, a lot of problems which were specific to Cyrodiil 3-4 years ago have crossed over into PvE. I frequently have guild events where one or more players can't stay logged in due to server issues. Sometimes performance is so bad in trials (usually when ZOS skips weekly maintanence) that the game becomes unplayable due to lag and the group quits.

FYI: I am playing in Australia but a very large number of players are in the Asia Pacific region, so this is not a trivial matter.

fizzylu

Cyrodiil might be terrible but just in general and overall, ESO is the worst performing MMO I have ever played. Be it random DCs, infinite loading screens, ping spikes, audio lag.... this game has it all and more than any other. In the past week or so, I've even had my MAIL lagging. I would press the key to accept the gold/items in it and it would seriously either not register at all or take way longer than it should to move them to my inventory so I could delete the mail. That's definitely a new low for this game performance wise, in my experience. And before someone tries to say it must simply and only be something my side; I play a handful of online games and MMO's regularly, many with higher rig requirements than ESO, and barely have any issues with any of them. My internet is not the best, but it's also far from being the worst and again.... ESO is the only one that normally gives me any of these issues.
This has played a huge part in my refusal to blindly support this game and I barely ever feel comfortable recommending it to others. I did play ESO at launch and it was a truly terrible experience performance wise, so I can at least say when I returned to the game some years ago things were at least better than they were then.... but I feel in recent years (and even months, specifically) performance has seemed to dip down a bit. Along with the mail issue, even when running through Daggerfall to do daily writs in the past week or two the game has seemed to be struggling with loading things in (textures, NPCs, other players, mounts/pets, crafting stations). And sadly an increase in player count/players present isn't even an explanation that can be used here since the city actually has seemed to be less populated than usual.

It would be nice if Zenimax was more open with players about the state of ESO, but I honestly think that some of the limits and problems with the game are long past the point of being fixable anyway and have been for years. Definitely speculation on my part, but if that is truly the case.... I can see why Zenimax would not want to share that. I do want this game to be great and there are many things I love about it, but I can't go against my better judgment and I'm definitely not going to wait for Zenimax to give us answers.

Jaraal

As long as there are still long standing game mechanics that can be removed or altered, attempts to improve performance by subtraction rather than addition are still available. And we are still quite a ways away from being reduced to turn based combat. So there are always options.

Desiato

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

But even before the PCNA-PTS Planemeld event, a lot of problems which were specific to Cyrodiil 3-4 years ago have crossed over into PvE. I frequently have guild events where one or more players can't stay logged in due to server issues. Sometimes performance is so bad in trials (usually when ZOS skips weekly maintanence) that the game becomes unplayable due to lag and the group quits.

FYI: I am playing in Australia but a very large number of players are in the Asia Pacific region, so this is not a trivial matter.

Correlation does not mean causation. Coincidences are common. It is extremely unlikely that the PTS database issue has anything to do with the recent uptick in connectivity issues experienced by a minority of players. I can't even fathom a technical explanation for that.

The impact from the PTS issue for most players was 8 hours or so of server downtime that was resolved when the servers came back online. The exception were the players who were locked out of their account however many days it was.

I've been reading all of the threads about lag recently, and people are describing different timeframes. Some are saying May. Some are saying since U41. Some are saying since the widespread connectivity issues on May 7.

I'm not trying to be dismissive of your concerns at all. I feel for you. I feel terrible misery when I have even a slightly bad internet connection. I believe everyone who says they are experiencing increased issues recently But there doesn't seem to be a server-wide issue in PVE because they're not affecting everyone. None of the dozens of players I've grouped with recently have complained and that's in vet trial and arena conditions.

Cyrodiil has a unique traits that don't affect other aspects of the game because it's not instanced. Most lag issues in Cyrodiil result from server processing lag when the players put more load on the server than it can handle. This will vary based on the distribution of play styles because the load an individual player places on the server can vary by a lot. For example, the per-player load of a ball group player is much higher than that of an ungrouped player heavy attacking from a wall. So Cyrodiil performance will seem to vary for no apparent reason at times. I'll also say that because of how game servers work, throwing more hardware at the problem can't solve that kind of issue. The root cause of the issue is a combination of software and gameplay design issues.

SaffronCitrusflower

Desiato wrote: »

Yeah, Cyrodiil is probably hopeless.

I quit out of disgust several years ago, but when I returned recently I realized I had to accept the game on its own terms.

Whatever it should have been doesn't matter anymore. It is what it is and no amount of complaining will change that. Getting mad at ZOS about Cyrodiil hasn't worked for 10 years and it's not going to start working now.

If someone is still bothered by it all and it affects them, they should take a step back because it's not healthy to worry about the game when the devs moved on from it a long time ago. it is clearly the lowest priority aspect of the game. They probably think they're doing us a favor by not removing it because it adds so little value to 99.999% of their customers.

ESO is mainly a pve ultra-casual online rpg now. They don't even call it an mmo anymore. PVP enthusiasts should find a game that values them as customers. That's what I did for a few years, but now I'm looking for something more casual, so here I am.

There is nothing "hopeless" about Cyrodiil performance. ZOS could fix it if they made it a priority, as the original devs and game designers did. MYM event's used to always have improved performance, not degraded performance. ZOS has options to make Cyrodiil work as it used to. They choose not to make the investment.

Diamond_10

Lags wrote: »

Or does zos have something else planned? Because i know they like to pretend that the restructure thing improved performance, but it didnt. It did for a month or so, otherwise its been business as usual. Then there was the multithread thing that seemingly went nowhere, according to the last update on this issue from matt firor last year. And when you go to the eso help page about performance and click on their performance plan you get sent to their plan from back in like 2019-2020.

im just wondering like, at what point when something has been so bad for so long do you just admit defeat? Im not a game developer, i dont write code, i know nothing about this. But what i do know is that, in most careers or businesses, if a part of your product has been working very poorly for 3 4 5 6 7 8 years, with the same type of issue, with no resolution in sight, it comes down to either it cant be fixed or we refuse to invest what is needed to fix it.

10 years is a very long time. If something is a top priority, is 10 years not enough? How about 15? Is that enough? Like if in 5 years time the issue is still the same, would that be when we admit defeat? So many questions, and no answers.

Refusing to invest is exactly what it is. Theres no way a game can go on so many years with poor performance. Ive seen freeshards of games run better with 10x the players in the pvp zone

Desiato

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

There is nothing "hopeless" about Cyrodiil performance. ZOS could fix it if they made it a priority, as the original devs and game designers did. MYM event's used to always have improved performance, not degraded performance. ZOS has options to make Cyrodiil work as it used to. They choose not to make the investment.

The hopeless part is that they chose, long ago, not to do what was necessary to resolve Cyrodilic issues. ESO was originally designed to be a very different game than it is today with PVP as a major component, but ZOS moved on from that as far back as 2015.

I have to disagree about MYM performance. I have clips from the original MYM events and they featured brutal lag at times. And the worst sever lag I've experienced this year was during the most recent MYM when most players were stacked at Glademist for more than an hour at a time chasing a large tick.

Here's the key thing to consider about good experiences during MYM: Lag in Cyrodiil is server processing lag based on the load the players place on the server.

However, not all players have the same load on the server. A player in a ball group with engaging in a large scale fight will have a MUCH higher load on the server than someone heavy attacking from a wall. So the server processing lag on an individual Cyrodiill server will vary based on the distribution of play styles. If everyone played APM (actions per minute) styles completely solo, there would probably be no server lag.

Even a solo player who keeps their buffs up, always executes abilities at the gcd while weaving light attacks and is in constant motion will place a higher load on the server than the stationary player heavy attacking from a wall.

So what happens during MYM is the servers get an influx of low-APM timid PVE players who don't place a high load on the server which changes the distribution of play styles.

Also, veteran high APM players who normally play on the main campaign spread out to different servers during MYM to avoid the long queues.

SaffronCitrusflower

Desiato wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

There is nothing "hopeless" about Cyrodiil performance. ZOS could fix it if they made it a priority, as the original devs and game designers did. MYM event's used to always have improved performance, not degraded performance. ZOS has options to make Cyrodiil work as it used to. They choose not to make the investment.

The hopeless part is that they chose, long ago, not to do what was necessary to resolve Cyrodilic issues. ESO was originally designed to be a very different game than it is today with PVP as a major component, but ZOS moved on from that as far back as 2015.

I have to disagree about MYM performance. I have clips from the original MYM events and they featured brutal lag at times. And the worst sever lag I've experienced this year was during the most recent MYM when most players were stacked at Glademist for more than an hour at a time chasing a large tick.

Here's the key thing to consider about good experiences during MYM: Lag in Cyrodiil is server processing lag based on the load the players place on the server.

However, not all players have the same load on the server. A player in a ball group with engaging in a large scale fight will have a MUCH higher load on the server than someone heavy attacking from a wall. So the server processing lag on an individual Cyrodiill server will vary based on the distribution of play styles. If everyone played APM (actions per minute) styles completely solo, there would probably be no server lag.

Even a solo player who keeps their buffs up, always executes abilities at the gcd while weaving light attacks and is in constant motion will place a higher load on the server than the stationary player heavy attacking from a wall.

So what happens during MYM is the servers get an influx of low-APM timid PVE players who don't place a high load on the server which changes the distribution of play styles.

Also, veteran high APM players who normally play on the main campaign spread out to different servers during MYM to avoid the long queues.

The veteran high APM players stick to their home campaigns, especially during the MYM events. They only run in the other campaigns while waiting for their queue for their home campaigns to hit.

_adhyffbjjjf12

@Lags I originally joined during beta and left about 5 years ago when Ii realised everything was empty promises. It was known from day 1 that the engine was not an appropriate framework for an MMORPG, and like everyone I grasped onto any snippet of chat that something was going to change, but knew deep down a total rewrite is the only solution and unfortunately ZOS want big profits. I periodically check-in with the game, because I would love to invest in the game again however The reality over the years is that things have actually got WORSE (its really obvious when you are not buried in the day to day of the game) I'm checking in again this year to see if hope beyond hope, housing item limits are at least increased to give me a bit of value at end game that would make the rather obnoxious costs worth it, but I'm well aware this is just another set of 'wait and see what happens'.

From my perspective I don't alt, and in other mmorpg i play instead of ESO I play PVP, i play cryo equivalent (with hundreds of player and much much bigger spell spam and ball groups and no lag at all), and hunt achievements. In ESO for the princely sum of expansion and $150 a year give or take I am offered no end game content that's not marred with significant issues.

So here is the reality check, this is what people need to come to terms with :

- Cyrodill performance is fundamentally broken due to coding issues. No amount of extra CPU thrown at it will make a difference. This will never be fixed.
- Housing item limit is shameful because of large houses (I keep my fingers crossed they do fix this) Avoid big houses.
- Because of light attack weaving, proc sets and gear driven gameplay, battleground is an incredibly spammy and unbalanced arena to play in which is not a good place for new players or those not wishing to chase the latest meta.

And on a positive, if you are an alt player or brand new to ESO then the game is absolutely superb from an open world questing and character progression pov, so if the above doesn't impact you then its a good game.

The developers know the above, and the obvious reason they don't talk about it is you don't have to lie if you don't talk about a thing.

Desiato

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

The veteran high APM players stick to their home campaigns, especially during the MYM events. They only run in the other campaigns while waiting for their queue for their home campaigns to hit.

Some do, some don't care.

The average solo and small group player who doesn't care about the map seems happy to play on the temp campaigns when they're active during MYM. A lot of them would prefer a classic Haderus experience and only play on laggy main campaigns because they're active.

Some other main campaign regulars simply don't have time to wait for the MYM queue.

Lags

let me sum it up again. of course cyrodiil performance is bad. Its always been bad. As someone who mostly pvps, with over 25k hours across multiple platforms, trust and believe i understand this very well. The point of this was to simply ask if its just time for zos to admit defeat. Guess i should have specified that.

Like i said above, i gave up hope a long time ago that they would ever improve performance. I was just basically posing the question of if its time they admit defeat, or do they have something else they are going to try. Because at this point, after 10 years i feel like they should just say we are unwilling to invest the resources needed to improve performance.

I saw an interview with, i think it was, mat firor a couple weeks ago where he said "anything is possible" it just comes down to if you want to invest the resources. That was referring to platform transfer. But like, if anything is possible if you want to invest the resources then clearly they do not want to invest the resources, whatever that may be, into improving performance.

reazea

Desiato wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

The veteran high APM players stick to their home campaigns, especially during the MYM events. They only run in the other campaigns while waiting for their queue for their home campaigns to hit.

Some do, some don't care.

The average solo and small group player who doesn't care about the map seems happy to play on the temp campaigns when they're active during MYM. A lot of them would prefer a classic Haderus experience and only play on laggy main campaigns because they're active.

Some other main campaign regulars simply don't have time to wait for the MYM queue.

I've been PvP main since 2014. Most of us hard core PvP players stick to our home campaign, even during events. We are a relatively small group now days because ZOS has driven most of us out of the game, but about 10% of us are still playing daily.

tsaescishoeshiner

While none of us really know the backstory, I've always wondered: What if every potential server issue has to be looked at before spending more on servers or a big rework can be justifiable? I've certainly worked places where that was required before getting more resources to fix something.

Desiato

reazea wrote: »

I've been PvP main since 2014. Most of us hard core PvP players stick to our home campaign, even during events. We are a relatively small group now days because ZOS has driven most of us out of the game, but about 10% of us are still playing daily.

I have also played since 2014. I've been a very active player at times.

I also prefer playing on the server I home, but not everyone does. There's a lot of players who don't care about the map or the campaign score whatsoever. They just want certain kinds of fights. Some of those players prefer the temp MYM servers full of juicy PVErs they can farm.

Desiato

Lags wrote: »

lThe point of this was to simply ask if its just time for zos to admit defeat. Guess i should have specified that.

I think the more relevant question is should you admit defeat? I did. I realized Cyrodiil would never be the game I wanted and moved on. The battle is lost. I'm much happier as a result and can enjoy it for what it is with no emotional attachment.

The question isn't relevant to ZOS. They pivoted to a new audience and business model a year after a bad launch. Every indication is the game is very successful now as a casual "online rpg". They probably make most of their money selling chapters and story DLC to skyrim fans who play it as a single player game.

It's not a question of what is or is not possible. This is a company driven by profits that answers to investors. It's about whether or not the the returns on the cost to fix Cyrodiil would be worth it. They likely concluded in 2015 that it wasn't.

Nothing is set in stone. I think they're missing out on a huge opportunity. I believe in AvA more than they do. I think it could be extremely popular under different circumstances. I wish the Mythic guys at ZOS would pitch to Microsoft Gaming a standalone Cyrodiil F2P game without all the PVE barriers to entry. It's a pipe dream that will never happen, but I think it's a wasted opportunity for them.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

I'm a PvE only player and not happy with PvE performance. I think it's reached the point of throwing things at the wall in the hope that it improves the performance of the game. I don't believe the problems are fixable without a large investment in time and funding which to me means it won't ever be truly fixed.

I first played ESO in the initial closed beta and continued to play through the following beta tests. When the game went GA I did not think it was close to being ready for prime time so did not subscribe and ignored the game until the presale of the Summerset bundle. By Summerset I thought the game was in a pretty good place both story and performance wise and it remained that way until ZOS added Stadia support. Stadia moved many things to the server side impacting performance with subsequent updates, 35 in particular, making matters worse. While it is possible for the servers to be able to handle the additional load, though I have my doubts it can, no one other than ZOS really can answer this. In any event the move of previously client functions to the server means more potential for network issues to affect game play. For me this is the best explanation for failed bar swaps, skills not firing and wonky targeting. With the additional communications needed to keep the client status updated it wouldn't take much for the client and server to get out of sync.

I've reached the point I no longer play the game other than to get and tickets during events or to collect the daily reward. Where in the past I would have bought each chapter I now wait to see what they are like with good odds that I will wait for them to become DLCs before paying for a month of ESO+ to play them. I won't say that ESO is quite as bad as it was when first released but IMO it is getting pretty darn close.

Lags

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

I'm a PvE only player and not happy with PvE performance. I think it's reached the point of throwing things at the wall in the hope that it improves the performance of the game. I don't believe the problems are fixable without a large investment in time and funding which to me means it won't ever be truly fixed.

I first played ESO in the initial closed beta and continued to play through the following beta tests. When the game went GA I did not think it was close to being ready for prime time so did not subscribe and ignored the game until the presale of the Summerset bundle. By Summerset I thought the game was in a pretty good place both story and performance wise and it remained that way until ZOS added Stadia support. Stadia moved many things to the server side impacting performance with subsequent updates, 35 in particular, making matters worse. While it is possible for the servers to be able to handle the additional load, though I have my doubts it can, no one other than ZOS really can answer this. In any event the move of previously client functions to the server means more potential for network issues to affect game play. For me this is the best explanation for failed bar swaps, skills not firing and wonky targeting. With the additional the communications needed to keep the client status updated it wouldn't take much for the client and server to get out of sync.

It's reached the point I no longer play the game other than to get and tickets during events or to collect the daily reward. Where in the past I would have bought each chapter I now wait to see what they are like with good odds that I will wait for them to become DLCs before paying for a month of ESO+ to play them. I won't say that ESO is quite as bad as it was when first released but IMO it is getting pretty darn close.

zenimax can be very stubborn. They have no idea how many players, and how much money, they have lost because of two main issues with this game. Bad performance and a bad reward system. They decided to focus on more solo/story content and push to gain a revolving door of casual players. Players that will buy a dlc, quest, and then leave. Sure veteran players get some things, arenas sometimes, dungeons, trials, mostly sameish content. But the important issues take a back seat.

But ill just never wrap my head around how they cannot see the lost potential of having more people play the game. The sheer number of players, especially pvp players, that have left over bad performance is awful. Nearly every friend i ever had in this game quit because of it. And the others quit because of the bad rewards. And even other people ive met in other mmos avoid eso because of the bad rewards. MMO players like aesthetics. They dont want to have to pay money to gamble in rng crates for good looking items. They dont want to 100% a zone to get no reward for it. They dont want to put in hours, days, weeks, months, to grind some achievement to get a title or a memento.

All i see with eso is lost potential. The reward issue is so easily fixed. You add more in game rewards, maybe you lose a small amount of sales in the short term (which is very debatable, if they put a cool mount in the cash shop people will buy it even if there are other cool mounts in game). But you gain players in the long term. Players that will stay, play more, and spend more to support the game. Which is also good for the community.

Performance is harder, for sure, but its one of the biggest issues in the game. It should have been priority number one for years. As someone in a comment above said, i gave up a long time ago. I accepted things for what they are and enjoy what i can when i play. But that doesnt mean i wont ask questions, or that i dont hope they will change their foolish attitude. I just find it stupid that many players, like me, dont play nearly as much as we used to, or would like to, nor do we spend money anymore, because of things zos could easily remedy if they put in the effort. But again, we arent the target anymore, we are just the afterthought once the chapter bag is secured.

Lags

Desiato wrote: »

Lags wrote: »

lThe point of this was to simply ask if its just time for zos to admit defeat. Guess i should have specified that.

I think the more relevant question is should you admit defeat? I did. I realized Cyrodiil would never be the game I wanted and moved on. The battle is lost. I'm much happier as a result and can enjoy it for what it is with no emotional attachment.

The question isn't relevant to ZOS. They pivoted to a new audience and business model a year after a bad launch. Every indication is the game is very successful now as a casual "online rpg". They probably make most of their money selling chapters and story DLC to skyrim fans who play it as a single player game.

It's not a question of what is or is not possible. This is a company driven by profits that answers to investors. It's about whether or not the the returns on the cost to fix Cyrodiil would be worth it. They likely concluded in 2015 that it wasn't.

Nothing is set in stone. I think they're missing out on a huge opportunity. I believe in AvA more than they do. I think it could be extremely popular under different circumstances. I wish the Mythic guys at ZOS would pitch to Microsoft Gaming a standalone Cyrodiil F2P game without all the PVE barriers to entry. It's a pipe dream that will never happen, but I think it's a wasted opportunity for them.

no its not. like i said before ive been a pvper for an extremely long time. Theres only so many times you can get fooled by a company before you realize, most likely, nothing is going to change. That happened for me a long time ago. I was here complaining about this back when they would respond and tell you to check with your ISP over cyrodiil performance, and completely ignored the issue. ive accepted things for what they are. But that doesnt mean im going to go along without saying anything from time to time. They have an obligation to maintain there game and remedy this, but that doesnt mean they will do it.

But if you want me to be super honest here, i dont believe they are willing to do what is needed to improve performance in a major way. I think they are just going through the motions trying different things that no one thinks will help. I mean most of the time when they do these big changes, like the restructure, they say they dont think it will impact performance. That way, if it does they can declare victory, and if it doesnt no one will question it.

There performance plan from 2019 2020, the year of performance, the restructure, multithread rendering, turning off cross healing, turning off CP, changing population, different tests they've done over the years in cyrodiil. None of it has worked. And the things that helped a little, like turning off cross healing, were deemed to "not have as much of an impact as we liked" and promptly reverted before they tried combining those things with other tests. Which imo is a massive mistake. Maybe turning off CP and cross healing together would have made a massive difference, but who knows.

I think they know what it would take to really improve things. Its like matt said in that interview "anything can be done, it just comes down to if its worth it or not" and this has been deemed not worth it. So they will try these little things here and there to appease us and nothing will change. That is my opinion on the matter, but that doesnt mean i wont question them on occasion, and try to get them to finally admit to the community that they've given up on it, or that there is no plan.

Or maybe there is a plan. Who knows, thats why i was asking here. Is there a plan, or did they give up, basically. Because i dont see a plan anymore, but maybe ive missed it. Not that i hold much hope in their plans, based on past results, but i like to know either way.

moderatelyfatman

Lags wrote: »

Or does zos have something else planned? Because i know they like to pretend that the restructure thing improved performance, but it didnt. It did for a month or so, otherwise its been business as usual. Then there was the multithread thing that seemingly went nowhere, according to the last update on this issue from matt firor last year. And when you go to the eso help page about performance and click on their performance plan you get sent to their plan from back in like 2019-2020.

im just wondering like, at what point when something has been so bad for so long do you just admit defeat? Im not a game developer, i dont write code, i know nothing about this. But what i do know is that, in most careers or businesses, if a part of your product has been working very poorly for 3 4 5 6 7 8 years, with the same type of issue, with no resolution in sight, it comes down to either it cant be fixed or we refuse to invest what is needed to fix it.

10 years is a very long time. If something is a top priority, is 10 years not enough? How about 15? Is that enough? Like if in 5 years time the issue is still the same, would that be when we admit defeat? So many questions, and no answers.

Well, if your playerbase is mostly new players then yearly promises of the upcoming 'Year of Performance' where you'll fix all those bugs will probably placate them.

The rest of us are just a bunch of sour old farts.

reiverx

I reinstalled the game last week after a four year hiatus. I mostly do PVP. Took out a three month subscription to see how it goes.

Ok, so the stuck in combat bug is still a thing. This has been going on since the beginning.

If they won't fix that, I wouldn't hope for much else.

SpiritofESO

Arrodisia

As far as Cyro goes. many would like to see it performing well, even if it meant they temporarily close it to fix it. Get the bugs settled, raise player cap, rework balancing, remove the clunk(change and speed up longer animations), give the cheese hammer a nerf or remove it (it ruined group play and strategy), ......

Lags

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

Lags wrote: »

Or does zos have something else planned? Because i know they like to pretend that the restructure thing improved performance, but it didnt. It did for a month or so, otherwise its been business as usual. Then there was the multithread thing that seemingly went nowhere, according to the last update on this issue from matt firor last year. And when you go to the eso help page about performance and click on their performance plan you get sent to their plan from back in like 2019-2020.

im just wondering like, at what point when something has been so bad for so long do you just admit defeat? Im not a game developer, i dont write code, i know nothing about this. But what i do know is that, in most careers or businesses, if a part of your product has been working very poorly for 3 4 5 6 7 8 years, with the same type of issue, with no resolution in sight, it comes down to either it cant be fixed or we refuse to invest what is needed to fix it.

10 years is a very long time. If something is a top priority, is 10 years not enough? How about 15? Is that enough? Like if in 5 years time the issue is still the same, would that be when we admit defeat? So many questions, and no answers.

Well, if your playerbase is mostly new players then yearly promises of the upcoming 'Year of Performance' where you'll fix all those bugs will probably placate them.

The rest of us are just a bunch of sour old farts.

i get the concept but ive never been a big fan of the idea of zos just dangling the carrot while we chase it. You arent wrong, but its still extremely dishonest and scummy for them to do that. But as i said before, i dont think they are like doing nothing at all. I just think they know what would fix it but they wont do it, so they'll do these little things here and there to string us along and get players to hope. But ya, eventually when you play long enough the hope runs out.

Lags

SpiritofESO wrote: »

It's not flawless, but when I finally purchased my PS5 and set Video Mode to Performance even Gray Host Cyrodiil is manageable.

Your mileage may be different.

However, any additional optimizations would be appreciated for the good of all.

Ya ive coped like this many times over the years when it comes to cyro. Upgrading my internet, upgrading my xbox multiple times, then on PC upgrading my PC multiple times. Every time it was still the same old cyrodiil.

Even still i have the ports open that they recommend on their port forwarding article, I have exit lag, i have gb internet, i have a solid PC ryzen 9, 32gb ram, 4070 ti.

Everything else runs flawlessly. I mean sometimes i have bdo gw2 and eso open at the same time (dont judge me), and u know what game runs like garbage out of the 3? eso. While the other 2 run great. It is what it is. All im saying is, all of these things will help. They will improve things. But you will eventually hit a wall because fundamentally the game is flawed when it comes to performance.

SandandStars

Seems investing in improving Cyro performance was abandoned many years ago

A separate issue for me as a pvp’r is ive never liked the way they keep the classes imbalanced, and so many class spells are ineffective or just don’t work