ZOS, Massive Spike in Ping/LAG in Recent Days - What Gives?

silky_soft

More lag in battle grounds today. You wait 5 to 10 mins in the que only to be lagged out and dodge roll doesn't actually Dodge anything until after the animation has finished.

twev

baconaura wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

thinkaboutit wrote: »

Called this one out a bunch of pages back lol..

And this is just ONE of 650+ and growing sets that have to be calculated by the server. And as time goes on, the calculations are becoming more and more complex, with so many different conditions that have to be kept track of. Add to that the ever increasing particle density of the flashy new mounts, armor packs, polymorphs, and whatnot, and the scribing variations, expanding pool of player achievements.... all on data hard capped servers.... and it's easy to see how performance can suffer.

UI stuff like mount effects, particles, armor/weapons and even the azure blightseed explosion particle effects isnt done by the server. its done by the client with the assets stored and processed locally.

[snipped a buncha stuff, for brevity]:

Which just means they switched the calculations and performance lag from the servers to the individual player's CPU/GPU/ram load to deal with on our end.
Along with every other extra flashy thing they they added to crowd our rigs processing with.

I'd really like to see an on/off switch, or at least a slider, that lets the players tone down certain particle effects induced by other players on our own rigs if we wanted or needed them to be less seizure-inducing audacious on our personal screens.

But that's just one adorable little elf's opinion on the matter.

YandereGirlfriend

Which just means they switched the calculations and performance lag from the servers to the individual player's CPU/GPU/ram load to deal with on our end.
Along with every other extra flashy thing they they added to crowd our rigs processing with.

I'd really like to see an on/off switch, or at least a slider, that lets the players tone down certain particle effects induced by other players on our own rigs if we wanted or needed them to be less seizure-inducing audacious on our personal screens.

But that's just one adorable little elf's opinion on the matter.

Both can be true. The server can and does frequently melt down and destroy performance. That is like skill lag, rubber-banding, latency, etc.

Overwhelming your local system resources is what will tank your in-game FPS, which definitely is annoying but not nearly as annoying (IMO) as the lag, rubber-banding, rollbacks, random kicks, etc. that the servers provide.

You can go into your .ini file directly and lower or disable certain particle/shadow/etc. values that will help to maintain a steady FPS even during visually intensive situations.

Another component that folk often overlook, particularly for Cyro performance, is their CPU. Ideally, one wants a balanced system to run ESO not one that is heavily slanted toward GPU while running an old or under-powered CPU.

Some effects are also just crazily un-optimized. Like we have 4090 owners out there who get huge frame-dips when Ulfsild's is cast. So there is something specific to that skill and its effects that is very unperformant. Siege Shield used to be similar. So hopefully those abilities can be cleaned-up in future patches.

Sluggy

twev wrote: »

Which just means they switched the calculations and performance lag from the servers to the individual player's CPU/GPU/ram load to deal with on our end.
Along with every other extra flashy thing they they added to crowd our rigs processing with.

Uhm, yeah. That's kinda how video games work. You run the program. And your computer processes that program. ESO has always processed visuals on the client machine, just like every single MMORPG in existence. I really can't fathom how people in this day and age of high technology still don't understand the basics of client-server architectures.

It's only in very recent years that some very rich companies have provided realtime streaming services for games. But you need to have killer internet and a willingness to put up with a sub-par experience due to reduced visual clarity and input delay. And even then the games are still running on a client machine, just not yours. And these services are at an extreme cost to the provider. Imagine the electricity bill required to run the equivalent of a high-end gaming machine that is now multiplied by every user of the service. The bandwidth would be pretty gnarly too, on par with most video streaming services. I'm really honestly surprised that any companies even offer such a thing. I can only imagine that they are operating at a loss and subsidizing them through other means.

twev wrote: »

I'd really like to see an on/off switch, or at least a slider, that lets the players tone down certain particle effects induced by other players on our own rigs if we wanted or needed them to be less seizure-inducing audacious on our personal screens.

I'm not sure about consoles but on PC there are sliders for that. Though it I agree that it would still be nice to turn the effects down even lower since half the time I can't see anything for all of the flashes and effects. It might be possible to disable more effects via the settings file but I've never bothered to look into it and again, it would be a PC only thing.

LadyGP

twev wrote: »

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@LadyGP the sad thing is that we have so many events lately and many new players that they could manage to change it budget wise ... that's the sad part ... they have the money to "implement" new skills and features to the game but not enough money to upgrade such an essential thing for the game as the engine? sounds a bit weird doesn't it?

The money (profits) made in the past have long since been dispersed to investors and paid out as bonus', festivals and transportation/lodging, and the like.
The same is currently happening with the current income.

I'm pretty sure that a new engine for the game was never, and isn't going to be, in any new budgets going forward.

It's most likely cheaper to start a whole, clean, new, I.P. than invest that kind of capital into an older game that is dragging 10 years worth of public relations baggage and doubt that exists at present.
It makes more sense to the front office to introduce a new I.P. as totally fresh, rather than an older I.P. that is something 'recycled/renewed' that would have to be compatible with all the current data bases for existing inventory items and all of the character skills and XP, while extending it to all of the licenses ever sold in the past but no longer played.

That doesn't even scratch the surface of developing a new game engine that ... what(?), has to include that ability for all of the older game consoles and PC rigs that have been in existence that meet the minimum specs since the start of the game in 2014, too?

yup, I'm here with you as well.

I know they can't do much because of the engine but come out and say something. These 7 years of "working on it" is just... annoying.

redlink1979

PC EU yesterday was sort of ok for me for 10-20 minutes when suddenly on a medium fight my ping rose to over 9000.

JustLovely

twev wrote: »

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@LadyGP the sad thing is that we have so many events lately and many new players that they could manage to change it budget wise ... that's the sad part ... they have the money to "implement" new skills and features to the game but not enough money to upgrade such an essential thing for the game as the engine? sounds a bit weird doesn't it?

The money (profits) made in the past have long since been dispersed to investors and paid out as bonus', festivals and transportation/lodging, and the like.
The same is currently happening with the current income.

I'm pretty sure that a new engine for the game was never, and isn't going to be, in any new budgets going forward.

It's most likely cheaper to start a whole, clean, new, I.P. than invest that kind of capital into an older game that is dragging 10 years worth of public relations baggage and doubt that exists at present.
It makes more sense to the front office to introduce a new I.P. as totally fresh, rather than an older I.P. that is something 'recycled/renewed' that would have to be compatible with all the current data bases for existing inventory items and all of the character skills and XP, while extending it to all of the licenses ever sold in the past but no longer played.

That doesn't even scratch the surface of developing a new game engine that ... what(?), has to include that ability for all of the older game consoles and PC rigs that have been in existence that meet the minimum specs since the start of the game in 2014, too?

But why should anyone who's played ESO extensively ever trust ZOS with a different IP? Won't it go the same route ESO has gone over the last decade? Won't ZOS still have the same devs and customer service people in place on the different IP?

ZOS is not realizing the seriousness of the corner they've painted themselves into apparently. If ESO isn't fixed, why should anyone ever trust ZOS again with a different IP?

NotNi.ya

JustLovely wrote: »

twev wrote: »

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@LadyGP the sad thing is that we have so many events lately and many new players that they could manage to change it budget wise ... that's the sad part ... they have the money to "implement" new skills and features to the game but not enough money to upgrade such an essential thing for the game as the engine? sounds a bit weird doesn't it?

The money (profits) made in the past have long since been dispersed to investors and paid out as bonus', festivals and transportation/lodging, and the like.
The same is currently happening with the current income.

I'm pretty sure that a new engine for the game was never, and isn't going to be, in any new budgets going forward.

It's most likely cheaper to start a whole, clean, new, I.P. than invest that kind of capital into an older game that is dragging 10 years worth of public relations baggage and doubt that exists at present.
It makes more sense to the front office to introduce a new I.P. as totally fresh, rather than an older I.P. that is something 'recycled/renewed' that would have to be compatible with all the current data bases for existing inventory items and all of the character skills and XP, while extending it to all of the licenses ever sold in the past but no longer played.

That doesn't even scratch the surface of developing a new game engine that ... what(?), has to include that ability for all of the older game consoles and PC rigs that have been in existence that meet the minimum specs since the start of the game in 2014, too?

But why should anyone who's played ESO extensively ever trust ZOS with a different IP? Won't it go the same route ESO has gone over the last decade? Won't ZOS still have the same devs and customer service people in place on the different IP?

ZOS is not realizing the seriousness of the corner they've painted themselves into apparently. If ESO isn't fixed, why should anyone ever trust ZOS again with a different IP?

im not going to be playing another of zos's mmo experiments tbh

Jaraal

JustLovely wrote: »

twev wrote: »

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@LadyGP the sad thing is that we have so many events lately and many new players that they could manage to change it budget wise ... that's the sad part ... they have the money to "implement" new skills and features to the game but not enough money to upgrade such an essential thing for the game as the engine? sounds a bit weird doesn't it?

The money (profits) made in the past have long since been dispersed to investors and paid out as bonus', festivals and transportation/lodging, and the like.
The same is currently happening with the current income.

I'm pretty sure that a new engine for the game was never, and isn't going to be, in any new budgets going forward.

It's most likely cheaper to start a whole, clean, new, I.P. than invest that kind of capital into an older game that is dragging 10 years worth of public relations baggage and doubt that exists at present.
It makes more sense to the front office to introduce a new I.P. as totally fresh, rather than an older I.P. that is something 'recycled/renewed' that would have to be compatible with all the current data bases for existing inventory items and all of the character skills and XP, while extending it to all of the licenses ever sold in the past but no longer played.

That doesn't even scratch the surface of developing a new game engine that ... what(?), has to include that ability for all of the older game consoles and PC rigs that have been in existence that meet the minimum specs since the start of the game in 2014, too?

But why should anyone who's played ESO extensively ever trust ZOS with a different IP? Won't it go the same route ESO has gone over the last decade? Won't ZOS still have the same devs and customer service people in place on the different IP?

ZOS is not realizing the seriousness of the corner they've painted themselves into apparently. If ESO isn't fixed, why should anyone ever trust ZOS again with a different IP?

Is it a case of the senche never changes it's stripes, or doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different daily reward?

Nharimlur_Finor

I was told yesterday that this problem as I experience it, was the fault of my hardware.

According to several, technically savvy players here, this problem is at your home.
It isn't behind the computer room door at ZOS.

NotNi.ya

LaintalAy wrote: »

I was told yesterday that this problem as I experience it, was the fault of my hardware.

According to several, technically savvy players here, this problem is at your home.
It isn't behind the computer room door at ZOS.

i kinda went into this rant on nefas's guild survey vid. the people that say its players hardware/internet dont have the issues because they dont do any content other than farming and housing. they dont understand, thats why i honestly dont even take notice of what they type. its not even worth reading if you see "i just do housing" or "i farmed for x amount yesterday and was fine" i dont know why they comment on posts that are mentioning lag/performance because, with all due respect, they dont know anything about it.

tincanman

And chalk another one up for pcna.

Overland. lol. Internet is fine & stable yadda yadda drivers up to date blah blah ...

pcna

It's time of day, server congestion: earlier (aka 'quieter' is ok) - admit it zos: you packed too many players in and don't have a clue. Again.

This seems similar to when pc-eu was in meltdown years back for...well, years. Not sure how big that 'rip eu' thread got (137+ pages, apparently ) before it was excised but it was certainly bigger than 70 pages.

Are we to expect the same here: that once it gets to some critical length this thread, too, will simply be closed without any meaningful response?

Aurielle

NotNi.ya wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

I was told yesterday that this problem as I experience it, was the fault of my hardware.

According to several, technically savvy players here, this problem is at your home.
It isn't behind the computer room door at ZOS.

i kinda went into this rant on nefas's guild survey vid. the people that say its players hardware/internet dont have the issues because they dont do any content other than farming and housing. they dont understand, thats why i honestly dont even take notice of what they type. its not even worth reading if you see "i just do housing" or "i farmed for x amount yesterday and was fine" i dont know why they comment on posts that are mentioning lag/performance because, with all due respect, they dont know anything about it.

What LantalAy isn’t telling you here is that his chief complaint is that he’s getting 3-12 FPS. He claims he is NOT disconnecting. In other words, he has a severely underpowered PC and isn’t experiencing the lag/performance issues that the rest of us are complaining about in Cyrodiil, trials, and elsewhere.

Edit: here’s his post from yesterday:

LaintalAy wrote: »

I came back in March after a six month absence. I was getting 24 Fps and around 430 ping all through April. That's the best its ever been for 9 years and I was quite happy, given the range of limitations that I have here.

May 7 comes along and that all changes. I rarely get above 12 fps with 3fps being the norm now. I don't have any issues being disconnected. My problems occur on all my characters. They are all new (from March) with 750 CP and the low end of skill points.

Now today I notice that performance seemingly varies by what Zone I'm in.

So yes, that is in fact primarily a hardware issue in his specific case. Lag is not the same thing as FPS drops. A helpful link for those who do not understand that distinction: https://www.howtogeek.com/142193/htg-explains-why-lag-and-low-fps-arent-the-same-thing/

Jaraal

LaintalAy wrote: »

I was told yesterday that this problem as I experience it, was the fault of my hardware.

According to several, technically savvy players here, this problem is at your home.
It isn't behind the computer room door at ZOS.

Then explain why these same players have no problem with other (newer, more complex) games? Or streaming movies, or any other hardware intensive online applications? And why are partial or full raids crashing at the same time? Do they all coincidentally run the same PCs, same graphics cards, same amount of RAM, same network cards? That would be miraculous, indeed.

Jaimeh

I was doing a vet trial earlier today on PC/NA and the whole group was experiencing tremendous lag. I was at red ping 500-999+ms continuously for 40 minutes, it was really terrible. A few people disconnected and had issues logging back in as well.

manukartofanu

NotNi.ya wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

I was told yesterday that this problem as I experience it, was the fault of my hardware.

According to several, technically savvy players here, this problem is at your home.
It isn't behind the computer room door at ZOS.

i kinda went into this rant on nefas's guild survey vid. the people that say its players hardware/internet dont have the issues because they dont do any content other than farming and housing. they dont understand, thats why i honestly dont even take notice of what they type. its not even worth reading if you see "i just do housing" or "i farmed for x amount yesterday and was fine" i dont know why they comment on posts that are mentioning lag/performance because, with all due respect, they dont know anything about it.

So, it doesn't necessarily mean they don't have any problems. Writing that there are no problems, thinking that there are none, is not the same as actually not having any. At the start of the latest event, I hopped onto a Twitch streamer's channel for 30 minutes, and the entire time he was trying to log into the game on the PTS, constantly getting booted with an error. I made a joke about it, knowing that he consistently claimed the game had no performance issues, and he began passionately arguing that the game had no problems and his struggle to log in didn’t count. At first, I thought he was joking, to be honest. But after another 10 minutes, I started leaning towards the idea that he wasn’t joking and genuinely believed there were no issues, even though they were obvious and documented on his stream.

dk_dunkirk

LaintalAy wrote: »

I was told yesterday that this problem as I experience it, was the fault of my hardware.

According to several, technically savvy players here, this problem is at your home.
It isn't behind the computer room door at ZOS.

Riiiight. That's why this suddenly became such a problem for so many people that we're now on 68 pages of comments about it over the past 6 months... We all developed problems at our individual homes on the same night, May 7th...

SalamanNZ

I turned off every addon I use as I was convinced that was the issue. Especially the trading addons that are refreshing data. But alas. Still pvp lag. I dont see another player then I am swamped with 5 other people all around me and killing me in less than 1 second. Or I see I have gone from full to no health with 6 consecutive lethal arrows that appear to hit me at the same time frkm the same person. Are they making it worse so they new bgs look playable?? Or are the new bgs on the PTR just as lagging?

silky_soft

Constantly running around at 120 fps flailing in the wind with skills not going off or half way stuck in bg waiting to die so you can skill again. Get geo locked into place by dk leap and fossilised if you not lucky enough to be hit by faster then speed cap sorc streak constantly.

LadyGP

There are a lot more people who are having issues than just this 68, yes 68, page thread.

Look at all the topics in the technical section where users are reporting similar issues that have been reported here. ALL of these people think it's an issue on their side and the ZoS mods, who are just trying to help, keep linking support documents that literally will do nothing to fix the users issue.

For the 50th time, this is why we need something official to be put up @ZOS_Kevin. People are thinking it's an issue with them. They are going out buying new pc hardware, troubleshooting ISP stuff, and just overall suffering a lot of un-needed frustration if ZoS would just come out and finally admit there is an issue.

PC Section:


Xbox Section:


PlayStation Section:



Again @ZOS_Kevin you all REALLY need to step up and get on these issues. Sounds like PlayStation issue is absolutely brutal just based on the topics being posted.

This is not an acceptable repose. When your mods are having to post this 20 times a day for the exact same kind of posts... there might be an issue.

edward_frigidhands

Coo_PnT wrote: »

Is ZoS currently taking any fundamental action to address this issue? Can it be fixed or not, or do they even know the cause? Or are they working hard to address it now?
Is it a server-side problem, or are we under DDoS attack? Or is it both?
I would love to hear back from some kind of developer. Whether it be hope or despair.

I agree 💯

reazea

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Coo_PnT wrote: »

Is ZoS currently taking any fundamental action to address this issue? Can it be fixed or not, or do they even know the cause? Or are they working hard to address it now?
Is it a server-side problem, or are we under DDoS attack? Or is it both?
I would love to hear back from some kind of developer. Whether it be hope or despair.

I agree 💯

Until we hear otherwise it is what it is and we're on our own. Pretty sad really. This seems like the lack of response is the response.

LadyGP

reazea wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Coo_PnT wrote: »

Is ZoS currently taking any fundamental action to address this issue? Can it be fixed or not, or do they even know the cause? Or are they working hard to address it now?
Is it a server-side problem, or are we under DDoS attack? Or is it both?
I would love to hear back from some kind of developer. Whether it be hope or despair.

I agree 💯

Until we hear otherwise it is what it is and we're on our own. Pretty sad really. This seems like the lack of response is the response.

Agreed. ZoS is doubling down on the whole "hope they go away" coms strat.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.

LadyGP

ZOS_Icy wrote: »

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.

Appreciate that. Can we get an update on this thread @ZOS_Kevin

twev

JustLovely wrote: »

twev wrote: »

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@LadyGP the sad thing is that we have so many events lately and many new players that they could manage to change it budget wise ... that's the sad part ... they have the money to "implement" new skills and features to the game but not enough money to upgrade such an essential thing for the game as the engine? sounds a bit weird doesn't it?

The money (profits) made in the past have long since been dispersed to investors and paid out as bonus', festivals and transportation/lodging, and the like.
The same is currently happening with the current income.

I'm pretty sure that a new engine for the game was never, and isn't going to be, in any new budgets going forward.

It's most likely cheaper to start a whole, clean, new, I.P. than invest that kind of capital into an older game that is dragging 10 years worth of public relations baggage and doubt that exists at present.
It makes more sense to the front office to introduce a new I.P. as totally fresh, rather than an older I.P. that is something 'recycled/renewed' that would have to be compatible with all the current data bases for existing inventory items and all of the character skills and XP, while extending it to all of the licenses ever sold in the past but no longer played.

That doesn't even scratch the surface of developing a new game engine that ... what(?), has to include that ability for all of the older game consoles and PC rigs that have been in existence that meet the minimum specs since the start of the game in 2014, too?

But why should anyone who's played ESO extensively ever trust ZOS with a different IP? Won't it go the same route ESO has gone over the last decade? Won't ZOS still have the same devs and customer service people in place on the different IP?

ZOS is not realizing the seriousness of the corner they've painted themselves into apparently. If ESO isn't fixed, why should anyone ever trust ZOS again with a different IP?

Because enough players have either short memories, or unbounded optimism, [or both], while new payers have none of the first, and a lot of the second?

Parasaurolophus

I have never written in this thread, but yes, I confirm that sometimes at random times it becomes impossible to play. Ping jumps, lags, connection losses. I also tracked the speed and packet loss - everything is fine on my end. Right now it is impossible to play.

skyrimfantasy

Got a friend who hasn't logged in for months to finally log in again last night. It was just the 2 of us in my house, and out of the blue she got logged out with loss connection to lobby error. She said that was it, she wasn't logging back in. She was in game maybe 30 minutes. The silence from ZOS is deafening, but they aren't going to admit if the game has been put out to pasture, just causing a mass exodus even faster, they'll just let us slowly starve to death from malnutrition while they continue to boast and party like the game is running great.

silky_soft

Crazy one today just happened. I go rezoned in elder root while in que to get face rolled by low ping plays in bg.

Once in bg is just lag super crazy. Then I get kicked to my character screen.

Never ever been kicked to my character select screen before. Always to login.

silky_soft

And my keybinds have been reset. What sweet hell is this.