Please give Story mode for dungeons

sarahthes

Base game dungeons do not need adjusting to solo or just play for story. They are only a tiny bit more difficult than base game public dungeons.

LunaFlora

sarahthes wrote: »

Base game dungeons do not need adjusting to solo or just play for story. They are only a tiny bit more difficult than base game public dungeons.

they do not need adjusting for you.
not for everyone.

please understand that there would not be so many people agreeing to this post if you truly spoke for everyone.

it is great that some people can solo normal mode dungeons, but as is very very clear for years not everyone can.

i can solo some dungeons which is nice, but i cannot solo all of them.
And know that it is also possible some people cannot solo Fungal Grotto 1, yes even the dungeon so many people think is the easiest ever.

i know i struggled with base game public dungeons in the past so i cannot even fathom thinking everyone is able to do those.

DenverRalphy

LunaFlora wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Dunno why Story Mode would have to be a 3rd difficulty level.

Just make it identical to Normal mode, but tie it to an Activity where you can't vote kick. Add in an incentive with completion rewards similar to Random Daily does, or an achievement that unlocks a weapon/armor style.

because it is an easier difficulty in other games.
story mode would let people solo dungeons and calmly do the quest that cant do that now

Doesn't matter what other games do. Simply make a 3rd Dungen Activity that caters to PuG's on normal difficulty.

Soarora

sarahthes wrote: »

Base game dungeons do not need adjusting to solo or just play for story. They are only a tiny bit more difficult than base game public dungeons.

Here’s a thought: even if a casual or newbie could solo a dungeon, they may be too intimidated to. A story mode wouldn’t just quell complaints, it’d teach people mechanics, leading to a more informed vet queue pool later on since normal may or may not have mechanics due to damage level of the group or speedrunning.

sarahthes

LunaFlora wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Base game dungeons do not need adjusting to solo or just play for story. They are only a tiny bit more difficult than base game public dungeons.

they do not need adjusting for you.
not for everyone.

please understand that there would not be so many people agreeing to this post if you truly spoke for everyone.

it is great that some people can solo normal mode dungeons, but as is very very clear for years not everyone can.

i can solo some dungeons which is nice, but i cannot solo all of them.
And know that it is also possible some people cannot solo Fungal Grotto 1, yes even the dungeon so many people think is the easiest ever.

i know i struggled with base game public dungeons in the past so i cannot even fathom thinking everyone is able to do those.

Perhaps the difference is that I think people should elevate themselves to the content, rather than expecting the content to be lowered to them.

Progression, not regression. Stop limiting yourselves behind "I can't" and think instead of "how can I?"

ZoeliTintanie

I have 600 CP, I have no friends, im in 5 guilds, all of which are quiet in guild chat, 24/7 unless its an auction/raffle or something.
I've been playing on and off since 2019 and I have soloed 2 dungeons. I have no mythics and my gear is telvanni + briarheart, that I swap between my alts because the most amount of gold i've had in all these years is 2 million.
I don't have any fancy mounts or pets, though I have had ESO + and i've bought all the dlc (gold road ulti prepurch thing)

And let me tell you, from this noobish point of view. I can't solo a dungeon with my templar, warden or sorceress, its way too much to micromanage (with those 3 classes for me, with cptsd) I spend more time watching cooldowns, trying to see the mob-boss-enemy animations to know when to block or what to block or if I can even dispell something.

Then without oakensoul (i havent ever even done psijic or leveled antiqutiy stuff because I haven't picked a main, I feel weak on them all) and bar swapping + lag, I usually end up dead unless I have a damage shield and a heal that deals damage at the same time or heals over time.

With the templar I run out of mana, with the sorc I die cuz the healing on that class is weird and on the warden I get 2-shot once the mob stops attacking the bar at which point I have to resort to heal spam waiting for the bear to kill the boss.

Its tedious. All I want is to explore those dungeons, see the zone, do the quests and read the stories while playing a class that can heal itself, shield and deal damage without forcing me into BiS, Mythics, Trials, PVP cliques or whatever else.

I dont even do random dungeons anymore because I feel like i'm just slowing everyone down and im being carried, everywhere, like a bag of laundry no one wants to play with.

Now having said all that,
by the way i'm 43.

What can I possibly do to see any of these dungeons and enjoy the game on my own without 3600 CP mythics and a community of friends or enough worth (as my noob self) to not slow down PuGs or guild groups? Do I just ask in guild chat (5 of them) for 1 person to babysit me for each dungeon?

It's lame enough that I can't play the class aethetic I enjoy in this game, but even playing it, I can't actually ...experience it?

I'm not expecting nor wanting any replies to this, this is just "food for thought" from a person with some "status effects" in real life that not many share, and from my point of view, i'd love a story-mode or solo-mode w/e you want to call it, something that allows me to enjoy the game without having to be babysat by a bigboi with gitgud gear.

LunaFlora

sarahthes wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Base game dungeons do not need adjusting to solo or just play for story. They are only a tiny bit more difficult than base game public dungeons.

they do not need adjusting for you.
not for everyone.

please understand that there would not be so many people agreeing to this post if you truly spoke for everyone.

it is great that some people can solo normal mode dungeons, but as is very very clear for years not everyone can.

i can solo some dungeons which is nice, but i cannot solo all of them.
And know that it is also possible some people cannot solo Fungal Grotto 1, yes even the dungeon so many people think is the easiest ever.

i know i struggled with base game public dungeons in the past so i cannot even fathom thinking everyone is able to do those.

Perhaps the difference is that I think people should elevate themselves to the content, rather than expecting the content to be lowered to them.

Progression, not regression. Stop limiting yourselves behind "I can't" and think instead of "how can I?"

people don't limit themselves behind that.
some stuff is just inaccessible due to having high ping or being disabled.
For people who can't solo a dungeon right now the answer to "how can i?" is story mode for dungeons.

please understand it finally this time?

VisitHammerfell

Although I still would like the option to redo base game quests and a solo story mode for DLC dungeons so I can experience them in person and with my main....

I will just say a shoutout and a huge thank you to all of the creators uploading dungeon stories to YouTube. ❤️ I do hope somebody uploads the trial stories someday as well (but at least you can talk to trial NPCs at the beginning). With DLC dungeons often tying in to zone stories, it's nice to have a way know what's going on.

Uvi_AUT

noblecron wrote: »

Can we have story mode for dungeons? Or perhaps idk a way to be able to grab the quests for dungeons without other players zooming thorugh dungeons and locking players out of completing a quest and getting a skill point? It delays progress when us who want to quest can't quest because of other folk.

Isnt normal difficulty kinda storymode? I think there are only a couple of dungeons that cant be soloed due to mechanics. Those few should be changed.

GothGamerGirl369

I would love a story-mode version of dungeons.
ZOS already has Normal and Veteran difficulties.
ZOS could easily add a single player story-mode.
The difficulty would be drastically scaler down.
Maybe no gear-set drops to compensate for it.
(This is my first post! I made my account today.)

ToRelax

Soarora wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Base game dungeons do not need adjusting to solo or just play for story. They are only a tiny bit more difficult than base game public dungeons.

Here’s a thought: even if a casual or newbie could solo a dungeon, they may be too intimidated to. A story mode wouldn’t just quell complaints, it’d teach people mechanics, leading to a more informed vet queue pool later on since normal may or may not have mechanics due to damage level of the group or speedrunning.

If story mode means overland difficulty, the last thing that will do is teach anyone mechanics. Not that that would be the purpose anyway.

alpha_synuclein

Neither group content should be turn into solo mode nor content made mostly for solo or story driven players should push for grouping (vide nymics). Considering how big eso is, we don't have that much of dedicated group content anyway. I would not like to see it drowned completely into "all for solo".

I'm not denying that random queue has issues, but there are probably at least 3 dungeon teams in this very thread. Be your own dungeon finder.

alpha_synuclein

ZoeliTintanie wrote: »

I have 600 CP, I have no friends, im in 5 guilds, all of which are quiet in guild chat, 24/7 unless its an auction/raffle or something.
I've been playing on and off since 2019 and I have soloed 2 dungeons. I have no mythics and my gear is telvanni + briarheart, that I swap between my alts because the most amount of gold i've had in all these years is 2 million.
I don't have any fancy mounts or pets, though I have had ESO + and i've bought all the dlc (gold road ulti prepurch thing)

And let me tell you, from this noobish point of view. I can't solo a dungeon with my templar, warden or sorceress, its way too much to micromanage (with those 3 classes for me, with cptsd) I spend more time watching cooldowns, trying to see the mob-boss-enemy animations to know when to block or what to block or if I can even dispell something.

Then without oakensoul (i havent ever even done psijic or leveled antiqutiy stuff because I haven't picked a main, I feel weak on them all) and bar swapping + lag, I usually end up dead unless I have a damage shield and a heal that deals damage at the same time or heals over time.

With the templar I run out of mana, with the sorc I die cuz the healing on that class is weird and on the warden I get 2-shot once the mob stops attacking the bar at which point I have to resort to heal spam waiting for the bear to kill the boss.

Its tedious. All I want is to explore those dungeons, see the zone, do the quests and read the stories while playing a class that can heal itself, shield and deal damage without forcing me into BiS, Mythics, Trials, PVP cliques or whatever else.

I dont even do random dungeons anymore because I feel like i'm just slowing everyone down and im being carried, everywhere, like a bag of laundry no one wants to play with.

Now having said all that,
by the way i'm 43.

What can I possibly do to see any of these dungeons and enjoy the game on my own without 3600 CP mythics and a community of friends or enough worth (as my noob self) to not slow down PuGs or guild groups? Do I just ask in guild chat (5 of them) for 1 person to babysit me for each dungeon?

It's lame enough that I can't play the class aethetic I enjoy in this game, but even playing it, I can't actually ...experience it?

I'm not expecting nor wanting any replies to this, this is just "food for thought" from a person with some "status effects" in real life that not many share, and from my point of view, i'd love a story-mode or solo-mode w/e you want to call it, something that allows me to enjoy the game without having to be babysat by a bigboi with gitgud gear.

Btw, this post is showing very well how bad eso is in teaching new players basic mechanics and principles of making a viable and sustainable build.

And no, meta trial gear is not an answer to those kind of struggles. Most of it is not that great for soloing, because they are designed for group encounters, where DDs are supported by tanks and healers.

sarahthes

ZoeliTintanie wrote: »

I have 600 CP, I have no friends, im in 5 guilds, all of which are quiet in guild chat, 24/7 unless its an auction/raffle or something.
I've been playing on and off since 2019 and I have soloed 2 dungeons. I have no mythics and my gear is telvanni + briarheart, that I swap between my alts because the most amount of gold i've had in all these years is 2 million.
I don't have any fancy mounts or pets, though I have had ESO + and i've bought all the dlc (gold road ulti prepurch thing)

And let me tell you, from this noobish point of view. I can't solo a dungeon with my templar, warden or sorceress, its way too much to micromanage (with those 3 classes for me, with cptsd) I spend more time watching cooldowns, trying to see the mob-boss-enemy animations to know when to block or what to block or if I can even dispell something.

Then without oakensoul (i havent ever even done psijic or leveled antiqutiy stuff because I haven't picked a main, I feel weak on them all) and bar swapping + lag, I usually end up dead unless I have a damage shield and a heal that deals damage at the same time or heals over time.

With the templar I run out of mana, with the sorc I die cuz the healing on that class is weird and on the warden I get 2-shot once the mob stops attacking the bar at which point I have to resort to heal spam waiting for the bear to kill the boss.

Its tedious. All I want is to explore those dungeons, see the zone, do the quests and read the stories while playing a class that can heal itself, shield and deal damage without forcing me into BiS, Mythics, Trials, PVP cliques or whatever else.

I dont even do random dungeons anymore because I feel like i'm just slowing everyone down and im being carried, everywhere, like a bag of laundry no one wants to play with.

Now having said all that,
by the way i'm 43.

What can I possibly do to see any of these dungeons and enjoy the game on my own without 3600 CP mythics and a community of friends or enough worth (as my noob self) to not slow down PuGs or guild groups? Do I just ask in guild chat (5 of them) for 1 person to babysit me for each dungeon?

It's lame enough that I can't play the class aethetic I enjoy in this game, but even playing it, I can't actually ...experience it?

I'm not expecting nor wanting any replies to this, this is just "food for thought" from a person with some "status effects" in real life that not many share, and from my point of view, i'd love a story-mode or solo-mode w/e you want to call it, something that allows me to enjoy the game without having to be babysat by a bigboi with gitgud gear.

I'm also 43. When I decided to start doing harder content I just asked people for help. They gave it gladly.

If you can't clear normal dungeons solo on an oakensorc then your build is wrong, as you should just be heavy attacking, and hitting the birdie heal or your shield when your health drops.

And if you can't do that, you should practice the content and the build until you can, rather than asking for the content to be reduced in difficulty. Base game normal dungeons are some of the easiest content in the game. I promise with a look at your build and a couple of adjustments you'll be able to solo most of them, and by the time you get through them you'll have improved to the point of being able to solo the rest of them.

It really tired me to see people wanting everything handed to them on a silver platter without having to work for it at least a little bit. Defeatist attitudes will never get you anywhere.

ZoeliTintanie

Not looking to have my hand held or handed to me on a silver platter, dear. My life and personality are not yours, so what you're assuming I want is incorrect and based off assumptions you're making while reading text from a person on the internet.

Difficulty, Gearing and Holding Heavy attacks isn't the problem and if I have to explain it any further, this post would end up appear condescending and patronizing.

jle30303

These dungeons are MEANT to be done by a group. Soloing is NOT the intended way of doing them.

Therefore, the way that the story and quest works, should be designed that the activities of some members of the GROUP should not be able to lock other members of the GROUP out of the story, prevent them from completing the quest and getting the skill point.

More modern DLC dungeons are MOSTLY better in this regard, but many of the older base-game dungeons are not. Selene's Web and Vault of Madness are particular cases where rushing ahead too soon will wreck a player's attempt to even pick up the quest at the start - often before the player in question has loaded into the dungeon at all.

Blackheart Haven is another, simply because the "fastest" way through the initial open area full of pirates has the option to not even run near to the quest giver, Shifty Tom. (Although this often proves unusually slow, simply because of the fact of running past mobs and aggroing them without killing them, will often later prevent the party going through the somewhat crucial door after the first boss. The solution, of course, is "make sure that you kill everything that you aggro instead of running away from it". But for some reason people do not always want to do this even though it makes the dungeon SLOWER since you have to either go back looking for them, or wait for them to lose aggro so that the door becomes interactable...)

Snamyap

Let's reduce everything to the lowest common denominator. Hell, let's get rid of mechanics all together and replace mobs with training dummies as people can't be bothered to learn even the most basic functions of their characters.

DenverRalphy

When did the OP actually ask for a dumbing down or making it easier to solo dungeons? The OP simply asked for a mode where the rest of the group can't just zoom ahead and leave him/her hanging while trying to do the quest.

And it's not an unfair request. A dungeon activity that encourages and rewards players to do the quest step by step, as a group. Instead of just zoomin through for quick boss kills and completion.

TKo_ROUSE

I feel this whole disabled players get throw around way to much. There are varying levels of disabilities many of which are still obtaining trifectas. I have obtained trifecta titles with people who are mute/deaf etc. It is possible and some of the above posters are not wrong about the fact that a lot of time the players are limiting their own potential by not investing time into getting better. I imagine that under .01% of the playerbase are dealing with disabilities so bad that they physically would be incapable of doing normal. They would be the polar opposite minority of the best of the best score pushers. And game content shouldn't really be balanced around either of these groups. (especially dungeons and trials)

However a better argument for a story mode is probably that not everyone wants to invest a bunch of time into a game to get better. Especially when the in game tutorial options are so bad people have to look to outside the game to find ways to improve. This is largely on ZoS for doing such a bad job of teaching players the basics. Some people just want to relax and play skyrim and spam left click. They do market play how you want I guess.

With that said I have no problem with a story mode if its balanced properly. Meaning probably no gear or everyone would just do it to farm the stickerbook. Maybe one piece of armor only at the end.

Veinblood1965

Agreed. I recently realised I forgot to level up my undaunted on my PVP nightblade. Started running daily normal undaunted dungeons. When I first log in I tell people I'm doing the dungeon quest. A high percentage of the time most of the group just runs ahead and skips some bosses that are needed for the skill point quest OR at the end everyone ungroups and leaves me hurrying to complete the quest before I get kicked from the dungeon like Vardenfel for example.

This really needs to be addressed. Last night was refreshing though, did Icereach for the first time on this toon and the tank took his time looking through all the boxes and chests and stuff, it was nice to just explore.

LanteanPegasus

Yes, please, let's have a story mode for dungeons!

ZOS puts a lot of effort into dungeons, especially the DLC ones. And that doesn't include only combat, mechanics and encounter design, but also amazing settings, nice little stories, and NPC dialogue.

So while there should always be the standard dungeon modes for groups that we have now (normal and veteran), there should also be a story mode, where players can take their time to enjoy the aesthetics and writing of the dungeons, without stressing about either surviving or having others being forced to wait for them.

It wouldn't diminish group content in the slightest. Because groups would still do their thing in standard modes. Farmers would still farm as they do now.
And the people who are asking for story mode are none that would be lost to the usual dungeon clientele, because they either don't play dungeons at all right now, or they play them once and never go back after getting the skill point (if they get it).

And to all the people obstinately insisting that story mode isn't needed because "one can solo them all, anyway" - what is it to you??

Even if the drops were the same - according to your arguments dungeons are so ridiculously easy that anyone could solo them anyway, so there would be practically no difference in "effort" from your point of view if it got any easier.
But people don't even ask for the drops to be the same.

As I said above - you don't lose a significant amount of people in the dungeon finder, either, because people looking for story and sightseeing don't use that thing anyway.

And no - not everyone plays ESO to get good, beat the game, perform adequately, make friends, manage their gear, work out their build, or whatnot.
There are people who play it because they enjoy certain aspects of the game, like stories, settings, character design and/or roleplay, for example. And for them all that "gearing up" is an unfun chore. One that won't help them, either, because even with reasonable sets and a companion it is still very possible to not manage a lot of dungeons. Please, just accept it, even if you don't understand it! Not everyone has the talent, drive, and time to be good enough to solo dungeons.

There even are people who try to get better, but aren't there yet. I know a few for whom ESO ist their first non-turn-based, live-action game ever, and believe me, that's a very steep learning curve. But they love the world, and the stories, and the adventure, and would be happy to take a look at all those pockets of Tamriel called dungeons.

PS:

Jenzi wrote: »

If I told you how long the community has been asking for this, you wouldn’t believe me.

Probably as long as Stuga has been looking for us all.

Snamyap

The biggest issue imho is not an actual lack of combat skill, but a lack of knowledge on how to build a resilient character.
The way I used to get by some disabling bosses is by simply lying on the ground while Bahahra' Curse and Leeching Plate keep me alive and kill the boss. No skill required at all.
Bahahra's Curse is tradable, Leeching Plate pieces can be obtained by (buying and) using keys on the special chest at the start of the Imperial City prison, no fighting required. Double drops from the chest during Imperial City event.
Build your character so it's all but immortal, and when you get more comfortable with the whole thing trade in a bit of defense for more offense.

Nestor

LunaFlora wrote: »

Lambert says storymode for dungeons is “really hard because it’s essentially a third difficulty mode”; it’s on the list but probably isn’t happening any time soon.

All that needs to be done is set the Dungeon to Levels that they were in the Pre One Tamriel days. Auridons dungeon was L14 if I recall correctly. Would not even have to remove the Mob and Boss loot tables as any drops would be useless to 99% of the players.

ZoeliTintanie

LanteanPegasus wrote: »

And to all the people obstinately insisting that story mode isn't needed because "one can solo them all, anyway" - what is it to you??

Amen.

I'm still in disbelief at what the other poster said about people with disabilities, throwing it around for perks.
Wow.

Snamyap

I'd gladly support story mode for dungeons if all the people advocating for it would also support an optional veteran overland mode.

sarahthes

Snamyap wrote: »

I'd gladly support story mode for dungeons if all the people advocating for it would also support an optional veteran overland mode.

One better - opt out open world PvP.

loveeso

A few dungeons have mechanics that make it either impossible or annoyingly cheesy to solo them irrespective of whether you are doing it on normal or veteran (I'm looking at you fg2 😆). The story mode for dungeons would need to take this into account and turn those mechanics off (or modify them... or, alternatively, finally improve companions so that they can help with basic mechanics). Apart from that, normal dungeons are easy to solo for any class (I always solo new dungeons before queueing with others so that I can avoid spoilers and comfortably experience the story).
For players with disabilities, if soloing a particular dungeon proves to be an issue, I would suggest either using an arcanist (easier and faster) or a one-bar lightning staff build (lower AOE dps so takes more time) - both allow low APM playstyle.

loveeso

Snamyap wrote: »

I'd gladly support story mode for dungeons if all the people advocating for it would also support an optional veteran overland mode.

Same 😁. Just wrote about it! Here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/657862/enhancing-player-experience-with-customizable-zone-instances-veteran-normal-group-solo#latest

moo_2021

sarahthes wrote: »

If you can't clear normal dungeons solo on an oakensorc then your build is wrong, as you should just be heavy attacking, and hitting the birdie heal or your shield when your health drops.

I have not bothered to check any details in new dungeons or anywhere since I Iearned combat basics.


Dungrons are for group smashing, overlands for solo slaughtering, and reading story feels pointless since quest boss would die in 3 seconds. It's not a RPG anymore but a shooting and slashing action game.

loveeso

moo_2021 wrote: »

... and reading story feels pointless since quest boss would die in 3 seconds.

Exactly! and that's why we need something like this 😁: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/657862/enhancing-player-experience-with-customizable-zone-instances-veteran-normal-group-solo#latest