Any plans to fix inflation in the economy? (PC/NA)

NoTimeToWait

hiyde wrote: »

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

The more importand impact of bid wars is that there is a lesser number of established trading spots (where a single guild claims a single spot for consecutive weeks and months without much contest) and way more volatility and uncertainty. So even guilds that are not involved in bid wars directly risk losing their spot due to spillover.

I'd also hazard a guess that the introduction of Multi-bidding had an impact as well.

Well yes. But multi-bidding if I remember correctly was introduced as an answer to shadow guilds (in principle similar to multi-bidding, but with actual multiple sister-guilds making bids to have spots to fallback to in case if primary bid failed). Because trade spot manipulation via shadow guilds resulted in worse bidding practices (which sometimes resulted in major trading hubs having spots taken by dummy-guilds with zero or close to zero wares on sale), it was quite a significant issue at that time. And shadow guilds didn't quite exist before bidding wars (not in the same capacity and not as widespread at least). Guilds had junior and academy guilds before, but not enmasse to guarantee having trading spot backups which became a necessity.

So the introduction of shadow guilds significantly increased the number of bidders and guilds participating in bidding during those times, which was a major driving force behind higher bids at that time

hiyde

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Well yes. But multi-bidding if I remember correctly was introduced as an answer to shadow guilds

While it would have been a factor, their key response to squatting on "just in case" spots for a fail safe (or even worse, to sell to other guilds) was when they made it impossible to disband a guild while it has a trader.

The practice was, in case they lost their one and only bid, they'd disband the "backup" guild that won a spot and then be standing there to grab it for 10,000G when the guild on it disbanded. And it wasn't just a backup thing. There were guilds winning good kiosks with dead guilds and then turning around and reselling the spot for an inflated price.

mikejezz

A super easy fix would be to make it possible to trade gold for crowns without having to do it through discord.

Either by trading transaction between people or like in guild wars 2, where you grade gold for gems.

Zos sn't clearly interested in this for whatever reason, but would be a very good way to fix inflation

h9dlb

Prices on NA are a lot lower than they used to be - chromium, zircon, columbine, corn flower, platinum dust, Rosin - all fallen through the floor. It's supply and demand - Prices on PC EU have had even bigger drops in price of most main items

NoTimeToWait

hiyde wrote: »

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Well yes. But multi-bidding if I remember correctly was introduced as an answer to shadow guilds

While it would have been a factor, their key response to squatting on "just in case" spots for a fail safe (or even worse, to sell to other guilds) was when they made it impossible to disband a guild while it has a trader.

The practice was, in case they lost their one and only bid, they'd disband the "backup" guild that won a spot and then be standing there to grab it for 10,000G when the guild on it disbanded. And it wasn't just a backup thing. There were guilds winning good kiosks with dead guilds and then turning around and reselling the spot for an inflated price.

Thanks for the explanation, I remember the manip, couldn't quite remember the way shadow guilds vacated the spots, so decided not to elaborate. And about holding spots for ransom, was that really a case? I think there were a couple unsuccessful attempts and then this particular shady tech died out? No way that could have worked

h9dlb wrote: »

Prices on NA are a lot lower than they used to be - chromium, zircon, columbine, corn flower, platinum dust, Rosin - all fallen through the floor. It's supply and demand - Prices on PC EU have had even bigger drops in price of most main items

Yes, supply and demand is the definition of any economy. But lower prices on some items don't mean there is no inflation. You just need to compare weekly gold usage on necessities in total (like how much gold you needed to support your activities 2, 4 years ago compared to now). And the main question is how many people find it harder to support their weekly activities.

mikejezz wrote: »

A super easy fix would be to make it possible to trade gold for crowns without having to do it through discord.

Either by trading transaction between people or like in guild wars 2, where you grade gold for gems.

Zos sn't clearly interested in this for whatever reason, but would be a very good way to fix inflation

It's not an easy fix, since real world money is involved and ZOS needs to guarantee a decent secutiry of the trading system and transactions. While taking a burden of being a guarantor is something game companies do, they don't usually do this to solve in-game economy problems

hiyde

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Yes, supply and demand is the definition of any economy. But lower prices on some items don't mean there is no inflation. You just need to compare weekly gold usage on necessities in total (like how much gold you needed to support your activities 2, 4 years ago compared to now). And the main question is how many people find it harder to support their weekly activities.

Oh inflation is a thing for sure. Anyone remember 4k Dreugh Wax? Now it's more than 10x that price on PC NA.

I remember when a really solid bid in the top trading city was under 500k. I thought it was insane when they reached 4 mill.
Now the bids are 9 figures in the top cities. It's crazypants...

LadyLavina

The only way they're going to realistically combat this without pissing anyone off is to increase what NPC merchants will pay for things in such a way that it is appealing to even the most die-hard traders, thus removing gold from circulation.

That idea has tremendous flaws and potential exploits, but it's about the only way that doesn't screw anyone over/degrade the fruits of previous labor

VisitHammerfell

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

VisitHammerfell wrote: »

"Replace the gold rewarded for completing daily crafting writs with tokens that can be exchanged for materials once you get enough or gold"

Absolutely not! Console exists and writs are pretty much the only way for us to get considerable amounts of gold. We shouldn't have to have our economy completely ruined to fix PC's inflation.

Re-read the post you quoted.

You would still be able to get gold if you choose to exchange the tokens for gold.

However, depending on the price of materials on your server that may not actually be the most effective choice for making gold.

Well just keep it on PC and far away from console and we're good. Everything is fine as is without extra steps here. The real thing they could do to help is disable addons but we all know how that would go over lol

hiyde wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

Right now, we have to back-to-back events with +100% XP gain. This will have an effect on various market elements as people won't need XP boost foods for a few weeks.

Are you sure about that? It feels like events like these boost sales of Ambrosias so people can really level up fast...

Yep, definitely, I save my Ambrosias for double xp events to do master writs, level up skills, etc

moderatelyfatman

ShadowPaladin wrote: »

That is something which always happens in MMOs. The longer they run, the higher prices will get. I have seen this in SWToR (prices went from 10k for an item 8 years ago to 1mio for the same item today) and also in AION (here prices went from 100k to 100mio within 8 years for one item).

The only way to stop this would be to reset currencies back to zero within certain time frames or fix prices for items - for example by implementing caped selling prices or offering items through vendors for certain prices. Both things would need to be implemented BEFORE the game is released or shortly after its release. If done afterwards the playerbase will be in uproar.

The problem is that money is magically created each time you kill a monster or finish a quest. It's the equivalent of a country printing money to pay it's workers every day. The issue is what you can spend that money on which determines the extend of the hyperinflation.

For instance GW2 allows everything in their cash shop to be bought by money, ensuring a regular outflow of cash from the economy. The price in gold for the cash shop items is quite high, preventing players who aren't hardcore from buying huge amounts of items with gold.

ZOS could relieve some of this problem by allowing more houses to be able to be bought with gold. They don't have to be the latest, but being able to spend 10 million gold on some of the older houses which you would not pay crowns for would be nice.

Consumables are another. In PvP you generally burn through a lot of potions so it would be nice to be able to buy Alchemist Satchels (Cyrodiil reward) for a large amount of gold or AP instead of having to run around and do surveys all day.

Likewise, forcing PvErs who hate PvP into Imperial City to get telvar for Hakeijo and powerful assualt ice staves isn't fair. It would be nicer if they included a gold price next to the telvar price (e.g. PA Crate 5k telvar, 40k gold) like it does with the Gold Vendor in Cyrodiil.

These options, unlike Guild Traders, remove the money from the economy and hence fight hyperinflation.

Aorys

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

These options, unlike Guild Traders, remove the money from the economy and hence fight hyperinflation.

4,5% sales tax going to the void and bids over 80 million a week don't help to fight hyperinflation?

AvalonRanger

Any plans to fix inflation in the economy? (PC/NA) Bookmark

My solution is simple and effective. Just increase gold material or precious item drop rate.
Then problem is solved immediately.

ItMustBeThursday

I was really hoping someone from support would weigh in, even if just to say that don't have any plans to do anything. What do clockwork citrus filet cost now? 20k per dish? That's pretty bonkers when you have 20 characters who are all magic users

Zodiarkslayer

High prices do not equal inflation. The new and rare motifs and furniture plans are supposed to be very expensive. And btw. all previously super expensive stuff goes down in price as the time passes. Be patient, it's not like you need them right now!

The real issue is the relation between material prices, the effort to collect them/the availability on the market and the average amount that you need of them. Mat prices are high, because there are new sets to farm and upgrade every bloody patch. Driving up the demand artificially, every bloody time.
And the players that would have these upgrade mats, do not sell them because they have no pressure to do so, because of bloody CRAFT BAG infinite storage.

The simple and elegant solution is a vendor, that sells all mats, including upgrade mats, for reasonable prices.

AlterBlika

There are too few things "system" things that take your money, yet they give away too much. You repair almost for free with current inflation, you don't buy anything for gold from traders. Bag upgrades and occasional outfit changes and that's all. Guild traders and taxes aren't enough.

We need ways to take money from players, not introduce some vendors that just sell stuff cheaper. Although if that stuff were only available there (meaning you can't get it otherwise) it would be a good start.

Sakiri

ItMustBeThursday wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Gold sinks don't always work. I ignore them, for example.

ZOS can't fix a player created issue like inflation. Sorry.

Strongly disagree, ZOS is no different than a government, except that the "country" in question is a game world. They control all the systems necessary to adjust for inflation

Government can't fix inflation either.

Sakiri

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

"I don't like doing [insert unfavoured task here]. ZoS, change the game so I don't have to do it."

It's a game not a job. If the game is making you do unfavoured tasks to progress, yes that's the game's problem.

There's no reason PvPers should need to spend hours picking flowers to be competitive in PvP.

There's no reason raiders should have to pvp or pick flowers or run normal dungeons for ap/tripots/transmute crystals either.

But we do. You can too.

EF321

ItMustBeThursday wrote: »

I was really hoping someone from support would weigh in, even if just to say that don't have any plans to do anything. What do clockwork citrus filet cost now? 20k per dish? That's pretty bonkers when you have 20 characters who are all magic users

You can have 1000 characters, why does it matter? You can only play one at a time.

Sakiri

EF321 wrote: »

ItMustBeThursday wrote: »

I was really hoping someone from support would weigh in, even if just to say that don't have any plans to do anything. What do clockwork citrus filet cost now? 20k per dish? That's pretty bonkers when you have 20 characters who are all magic users

You can have 1000 characters, why does it matter? You can only play one at a time.

Not to mention, the food isn't necessary. Go farm mats and have someone make it for you if it's too expensive.

sarahthes

Sakiri wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

"I don't like doing [insert unfavoured task here]. ZoS, change the game so I don't have to do it."

It's a game not a job. If the game is making you do unfavoured tasks to progress, yes that's the game's problem.

There's no reason PvPers should need to spend hours picking flowers to be competitive in PvP.

There's no reason raiders should have to pvp or pick flowers or run normal dungeons for ap/tripots/transmute crystals either.

But we do. You can too.

Nah. Raiding should be lucrative enough that it generates enough gold to pay other people to pick flowers. Once you get to a certain point, you shouldn't have to choose between 'do I raid today or do I afk pick flowers for 6 hours to fund the rest of the week'.

wolfie1.0.

Anyone suggesting that ZOS just do regular gold wipes from the game, that wouldn't work. Craft bags exist. And you can sell mats to npcs for gold. It's a bad rate right now. But in a situation where no one has gold having a sudden influx of gold at hand gets you ahead.

sarahthes

They just need some sort of gold sink aside from guild trader bids, and it needs to be something they can adjust based on inflation rate, i.e. have different costs across platforms and servers.

Personally, rather than direct crown store to gold sales, I think they should make seals of endeavor buyable, and the buyable ones tradeable.

wolfie1.0.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

The sense of entitlement is so strong. It's a game, not a job, so why not just say

More like you pay for a day at the theme park to drive some go-karts, and instead the carney tells you "no go-karts until you ride the kiddie teacups for 3 hours, no exceptions." Like no, that's not what I'm paying for. ESO is a theme park MMO, I'm only here to ride the PvP ride, the mat grind part is just a waste of time that takes away from PvP, there are lots of PvPers that literally don't have the time to mat grind and are at a competitive disadvantage for no good reason.

No it's more like buying a go kart. Fun to use as drive, but every so often you have to fuel it up or recharge it. You have to do maintenance, and repairs. Now you can either pay someone to do all that for you, or you can learn to do it yourself. Either way someone needs to spend the time to complete it or it won't work. And if you pay for someone else's time you will need to compensate them fairly.

sarahthes

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

The sense of entitlement is so strong. It's a game, not a job, so why not just say

More like you pay for a day at the theme park to drive some go-karts, and instead the carney tells you "no go-karts until you ride the kiddie teacups for 3 hours, no exceptions." Like no, that's not what I'm paying for. ESO is a theme park MMO, I'm only here to ride the PvP ride, the mat grind part is just a waste of time that takes away from PvP, there are lots of PvPers that literally don't have the time to mat grind and are at a competitive disadvantage for no good reason.

No it's more like buying a go kart. Fun to use as drive, but every so often you have to fuel it up or recharge it. You have to do maintenance, and repairs. Now you can either pay someone to do all that for you, or you can learn to do it yourself. Either way someone needs to spend the time to complete it or it won't work. And if you pay for someone else's time you will need to compensate them fairly.

The solution, then, is to have things buyable with AP that translate into gold. There are some, but a lot of them are really RNG-based and the average PvPer isn't likely to convert enough AP to gold to fund their potions on a weekly or monthly basis.

hiyde

sarahthes wrote: »

The solution, then, is to have things buyable with AP that translate into gold. There are some, but a lot of them are really RNG-based and the average PvPer isn't likely to convert enough AP to gold to fund their potions on a weekly or monthly basis.

Curious to know, with current pricing, how much gold the average PvP player needs each week to buy all the pots they'd like to have.

Or even better, what that averages out to per hour of play.

sarahthes

hiyde wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

The solution, then, is to have things buyable with AP that translate into gold. There are some, but a lot of them are really RNG-based and the average PvPer isn't likely to convert enough AP to gold to fund their potions on a weekly or monthly basis.

Curious to know, with current pricing, how much gold the average PvP player needs each week to buy all the pots they'd like to have.

Depends how much they are pvping. A stack of tripots or heroism pots will last about 3-4 hours, give or take, so that's either 300K or 2m a night, depending on what you're using (on PC NA).

hiyde

sarahthes wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

The solution, then, is to have things buyable with AP that translate into gold. There are some, but a lot of them are really RNG-based and the average PvPer isn't likely to convert enough AP to gold to fund their potions on a weekly or monthly basis.

Curious to know, with current pricing, how much gold the average PvP player needs each week to buy all the pots they'd like to have.

Depends how much they are pvping. A stack of tripots or heroism pots will last about 3-4 hours, give or take, so that's either 300K or 2m a night, depending on what you're using (on PC NA).

So, 75k per hour on tripots expense using 1 pot every ~2 mins. One hour of mediocre node farming can easily earn 500k. For every 6 hours of PvP, assuming absolutely no other income sources, it's one hour of farming. 86% of their time PvPing, 14% farming.

If I mathed right.

sarahthes

hiyde wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

The solution, then, is to have things buyable with AP that translate into gold. There are some, but a lot of them are really RNG-based and the average PvPer isn't likely to convert enough AP to gold to fund their potions on a weekly or monthly basis.

Curious to know, with current pricing, how much gold the average PvP player needs each week to buy all the pots they'd like to have.

Depends how much they are pvping. A stack of tripots or heroism pots will last about 3-4 hours, give or take, so that's either 300K or 2m a night, depending on what you're using (on PC NA).

So, 75k per hour on tripots expense using 1 pot every ~2 mins. One hour of mediocre node farming can easily earn 500k. For every 6 hours of PvP, assuming absolutely no other income sources, it's one hour of farming. 86% of their time PvPing, 14% farming.

If I mathed right.

How much farming do they have to do to afford ulti pots?

SilverBride

The economy is set not only by the sellers but the buyers as well. If players won't pay what they think is an overinflated price the sellers will have to lower their prices.

Amottica

SilverBride wrote: »

The economy is set not only by the sellers but the buyers as well. If players won't pay what they think is an overinflated price the sellers will have to lower their prices.

This is a very salient point.

If players are willing to pay a certain price then that is what the players have determined to be the going rate. If Zenimax forced players to sell items for a price lower than what the market would determine there would be shortages as more would be buying whatever it is and fewer farming it to sell. It would mess up the supply and demand equation.

Farming more of X will lower the price of that item.

Dax_Draconis

Craft bags have unlimited storage so there is little incentive to sell any mats at all unless the current market rate is temptingly high. Players with subscriptions can hoard them indefinitely.