Any plans to fix inflation in the economy? (PC/NA)

ItMustBeThursday

I've been wondering if there is anything planned to address the rampant inflation affecting the in game economy.

The price of certain items has gone absolutely insane, and it feels like you'd have to aggressively farm gold to be able to buy even the most basic necessities.

ShadowPaladin

That is something which always happens in MMOs. The longer they run, the higher prices will get. I have seen this in SWToR (prices went from 10k for an item 8 years ago to 1mio for the same item today) and also in AION (here prices went from 100k to 100mio within 8 years for one item).

The only way to stop this would be to reset currencies back to zero within certain time frames or fix prices for items - for example by implementing caped selling prices or offering items through vendors for certain prices. Both things would need to be implemented BEFORE the game is released or shortly after its release. If done afterwards the playerbase will be in uproar.

Munkfist

I'm curious as to what the most basic necessities may be. Most things that are sold are also able to be farmed through other means than just traders.

Supply and demand is very much a part of the ESO economy. There's always a cost for the convenience of not farming for whatever it is you may be looking for yourself.

ItMustBeThursday

I think there are ways that they could fix the economy without a reset. Events that give away the commonly very expensive items will drive prices down and have a cascading effect

NoTimeToWait

ItMustBeThursday wrote: »

I think there are ways that they could fix the economy without a reset. Events that give away the commonly very expensive items will drive prices down and have a cascading effect

It won't have a cascading effect. There is a steady inflation and there are major inflation events corresponding to increased player activity (one tamriel, free morrowind chapter, covid, free base eso giveaway). So there is already a large volume of gold moving around, that is mostly produced by players through their normal playstyle.

This volume of gold won't go anywhere, if you crash price of select items. If something gets cheaper, then something else gets more expensive because players will have cash for additional disposal.

So the game needs better gold sinks, which is hard to implement, because players don't like gold sinks.
We probably won't get any major gold sinks unless people complain more on the forums about high prices

kargen27

The inflation isn't overwhelming. The economy in ESO is actually pretty healthy. It still responds to supply and demand and is very fluid. Even a new player can afford everything they need as can the rest of the player base. Players can also afford most of what they want with prices reflecting the time and difficulty involved in getting items to drop.

There is an ease to obtaining gold on the PC that doesn't exist on the consoles and that does cause a price increase. Isn't really rampant inflation though because the ability to make gold has for the most part kept pace with the rise in prices.

Kartalin

ItMustBeThursday wrote: »

I think there are ways that they could fix the economy without a reset. Events that give away the commonly very expensive items will drive prices down and have a cascading effect

I believe this is part of their intent in placing gold upgrade mats in the monthly login rewards. Not enough to tank the prices but little adjustments to see what happens. But in March they did 4 of each instead of one so this seems to be their plan going forward— additional currency and mats via login rewards to help control inflation.

They need to include nirncrux and columbine next. The columbine thing is entirely their fault though, making one plant with the most desirable traits for both pve and PvP.

ssewallb14_ESO

Inflation can be hard to fix. Even a little deflation can incentivize selling and hoarding gold which spirals out of control quickly, especially once people expect it.

I do think the inflation is excessive, though it's calmed down a bit. People speculate on gold mats, columbine, etc which isn't healthy either.

I think it could be improved by chilling with the gold printing a bit (trial vendor junk and writ turn-ins are good targets), and maybe consider changing or adding new alchemy ingredients to take some stress of of columbine. Alliance tripots would help too.

jcaceresw

Don't get me started. There are lots of ideas to make items not so exclusive and to avoid people inflating their prices. Some of those ideas involve getting items with gold instead of their original currency (telvar, ap or crowns) and creating new QoL features intended to make people spend lots of gold and "re-discover" current game features that are left out once nothing more is to be gained from them.

chessalavakia_ESO

ShadowPaladin wrote: »

That is something which always happens in MMOs. The longer they run, the higher prices will get. I have seen this in SWToR (prices went from 10k for an item 8 years ago to 1mio for the same item today) and also in AION (here prices went from 100k to 100mio within 8 years for one item).

The only way to stop this would be to reset currencies back to zero within certain time frames or fix prices for items - for example by implementing caped selling prices or offering items through vendors for certain prices. Both things would need to be implemented BEFORE the game is released or shortly after its release. If done afterwards the playerbase will be in uproar.

Generally it happens in MMO's because something was either miscalculated, messed up, or the in-game economy wasn't treated as a major priority in a decision.

For example, SWTOR's economy is a mess because the developers didn't properly roll back or enforce after some exploits occurred.

My guess would be that you could manage the OP's issues somewhat by doing the following:

Replace the gold rewarded for completing daily crafting writs with tokens that can be exchanged for materials once you get enough or gold.

You don't want to rob new players of the opportunity to earn gold from writs but, it's better for the game if players aren't adding gold to it by the boatload like they currently can be with writs. Letting people exchange them for material boxes that are worth a bit more than the gold will mean that most players will go for the materials over the gold which will reduce the amount of new gold entering the game while also dropping the cost of materials somewhat which is what many of the people complaining about inflation are upset about.

Reward players with Achievements and other rewards (that don't turn into gold) based on the amount of gold they have made selling items on the Guild Trader while also raising the amount that the Guild Trader eats for those players.

The Guild Trader is where much of the game's economy issues lie. You need to raise the rates somewhat but, you don't want to mess up new players and you don't want existing players to feel too penalized. So, you might raise the rates @ 1 mil sold, 10 mil sold, and 20 mil sold by 1% each while giving out titles/dyes/furniture/costumes to make up for it.

Tommy_The_Gun

I think that primary cause of the inflation is the fact that there is no cap on the biding for the vendor NPC system. This is the biggest gold sink in the game. Over the time number of trading guild have grown. There are more & more "rich" guilds who basically fight over trading spots. And since there is no cap, I would imagine that bidding cash is going up & up. And the gold cost is reflected in prices. This gold sink is being filled up by players (buyers). Normally, people tend to buy the cheapest stuff, but TTC is kinda preventing that, as not only it "suggests" what the price should be, but also makes scalping easier.

I always thought that that "lack of cap" on the vendor NPC biding was designed the way it is to force certain "rotation", so you would not have a situation where trading guilds are permanently occupying one or two trading spots. But it seems that it is exactly what is happening.

NoTimeToWait

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I think that primary cause of the inflation is the fact that there is no cap on the biding for the vendor NPC system. This is the biggest gold sink in the game. Over the time number of trading guild have grown. There are more & more "rich" guilds who basically fight over trading spots. And since there is no cap, I would imagine that bidding cash is going up & up. And the gold cost is reflected in prices. This gold sink is being filled up by players (buyers). Normally, people tend to buy the cheapest stuff, but TTC is kinda preventing that, as not only it "suggests" what the price should be, but also makes scalping easier.

I always thought that that "lack of cap" on the vendor NPC biding was designed the way it is to force certain "rotation", so you would not have a situation where trading guilds are permanently occupying one or two trading spots. But it seems that it is exactly what is happening.

I think it's actually the opposite. For quite a long time PC EU and PC NA economies were nose to nose, with prices seldomly deviating from each other. Nowadays, PC NA has double or sometimes triple the price for staple items compared to PC EU.
One of the most significant differences between servers is that somewhere in 2016 or 2017 on PC EU a very agressive bidding war erupted between two major trading alliances that soon engulfed almost all the trading hubs and that is still going on even after one of the trading alliances ultimately lost and disbanded. Because more guilds started switching spots and bid more aggresively, I think more gold was "lost" and PC EU had their inflation rate slightly more in rein than PC NA. Not that I condone such bidding wars, it was always a major pain in EU for many traders tbh, but I couldn't find any other significant reason why prices between EU and NA started to diverge right after EU became engulfed in bidding wars (I stated to notice the difference in 2018 I think). And if so, these bidding wars worked as a very good gold sink

WrathOfInnos

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

Inflation can be hard to fix. Even a little deflation can incentivize selling and hoarding gold which spirals out of control quickly, especially once people expect it.

I do think the inflation is excessive, though it's calmed down a bit. People speculate on gold mats, columbine, etc which isn't healthy either.

I think it could be improved by chilling with the gold printing a bit (trial vendor junk and writ turn-ins are good targets), and maybe consider changing or adding new alchemy ingredients to take some stress of of columbine. Alliance tripots would help too.

Yes agreed. I’d take it another step and introduce a potion vendor that accepts gold. It could be a 2:1 ratio with AP, so a Spell Power or Weapon Power potion would be 360 gold. This would have little immediate effect, since potions go for a little under 300 gold at guild traders, but it would cap the price inflation for these consumables and offer an alternative if prices continue to rise. This alternative would also become the most effective gold sink in the game, as it is works out to nearly 30k gold per hour per player using potions on cooldown.

Definitely add tripots to this vendor. IMO they should be the same 360 gold or 720 AP as other potions (since Crown and crate tripots appear to be valued equally), but even if they were 1.5X this it would be beneficial long-term.

Heroism + Mag + Stam potions would also be a great gold sink. These are the most effective option currently, and top groups burn through them. Prices are high because few players want to slowly farm dragons all day for ingredients. They could easily be 720 or 1080 gold each (1440 or 2160 AP) and players would pay it. That is up to 1 million gold per hour removed from the game by a 12 man raid group. Great gold sink opportunity! Currently money is just passed between players for expensive potions and never removed from the economy.

Treeshka

Game needs better gold sinks. But if you base high inflation server for gold sink values. Console servers will suffer. So it is really complicated at this point.

They should just stop awarding players with gold for daily rewards or any currency in general. Maybe add some extra gold cost to upgrading. Maybe a hard no but remove Plunders from veteran and only make them for Hard Mode.

Gray_howling_parrot

Don't know if this would necessarily fix inflation, but having many gold sinks would be helpful to take some gold out of the economy.

Currently the only gold sinks that there are are unfurnished homes, which if you're not into housing, nullifies that (along with the luxury furnisher). If there was a rotating weekly or monthly vendor that sold mounts, pets, cosmetics, etc. from the past for lots of gold, that could be cool.

GuuMoonRyoung

I would first release some crates in crown store that could be bought with gold. These crates would stay for a limited time with exclusive items that would not be present anywhere else. It would take away a lot of golds from the circulation. Then I would put a cap on minimum and maximum sale value of each item that sellers would not be able to exceed when posting on guild store. And also, depending on supply and demand, the item's price would automatically be lowered or increased within the limit of minimum and maximum value. It would take away some freedom from players but it would stabilize the economy.

Alternatively, we could add a tax system, the more gold someone has, the more taxes one would have to pay to the tax collectors.

AnduinTryggva

ShadowPaladin wrote: »

That is something which always happens in MMOs. The longer they run, the higher prices will get. I have seen this in SWToR (prices went from 10k for an item 8 years ago to 1mio for the same item today) and also in AION (here prices went from 100k to 100mio within 8 years for one item).

The only way to stop this would be to reset currencies back to zero within certain time frames or fix prices for items - for example by implementing caped selling prices or offering items through vendors for certain prices. Both things would need to be implemented BEFORE the game is released or shortly after its release. If done afterwards the playerbase will be in uproar.

We have a fee system that has a fix percentage. This proportion could increase with increasing prices.

Otherwise we have to have better gold sink somewhere. And I am not talking about stuff that costs 50g at npc traders.

Sakiri

Gold sinks don't always work. I ignore them, for example.

ZOS can't fix a player created issue like inflation. Sorry.

ItMustBeThursday

Sakiri wrote: »

Gold sinks don't always work. I ignore them, for example.

ZOS can't fix a player created issue like inflation. Sorry.

Strongly disagree, ZOS is no different than a government, except that the "country" in question is a game world. They control all the systems necessary to adjust for inflation

KS_Amt38

There is literally nothing you can buy from ingame traders for Gold which has some use, so no tripot-potions, no useful crafting materials or no cool collectibles. Everything is based on trading with other players or spending your crowns in the crown store, which in turn means there is very high amount of gold circulation in the game => very high inflation.

If ZoS continue to ignore this, the ingame Currency will loose more and more value.

mr1sho

I use to feel this way until I started farming for rare and expensive materials I honestly think the market is fine the way it is the amount of hours you have to sit and farm for certain items takes a lot patience

xylena_lazarow

It's especially bad in PvP where mat prices gatekeep casual players from running important tri-glyphs and tri-pots.

I_killed_Vivec

Gold sinks = pay more for some things. Currently we have trader sites, buying houses, armour repairs, etc. Increase gold sinks to reduce the gold in the economy means paying more for those things.

You might like that because you get columbine for less.

Others might not like it because the costs hit them, and in any case they don't want a reduction in the cost of the columbine they spend time farming.

Farmers stop farming columbine, there's no value in it, and keep it for themselves rather than sell off excess...

"It's impossible to find columbine in the traders! ZoS, do something about it. Make other people farm it for me and sell it at a price I like!"

And having NPCs sell tri-pots and other potions is a horrible idea - it trashes a complete line of crafting skill. It is yet another plea for

"I don't like doing [insert unfavoured task here]. ZoS, change the game so I don't have to do it."

Czeri

There really isn't much worth spending gold in the game, only unfurnished houses and what the gold and luxury vendors offer.

If you're not into housing, you really only have the gold vendor (although I would argue the houses are handy for free recalls and easy travel to away-from-wayshrine places even if you never plan to set foot inside).

The problem is that all three have limited stock. We get what, one new house for gold each year (if that :cough:High Isle:cough:), one new luxury item per week, and four new monster sets per year?

So for those that have accumulated gold, guild traders are the only place to spend, but that means the gold doesn't leave the economy (except for the relatively low tax on the sales).

I wish we could buy more for gold, but we know that's not going to happen because the developers need the actual cash they're getting for crowns. So I guess the only thing that can be done is help the cash-strapped players get the basics that they need for free. Arguably that is happening - the daily rewards give you free tri-pots, experience boosters, and improvement mats; while events give you free style pages, motif chapters, and furnishings (if you are into that).

ItMustBeThursday

It is nice that players get some stuff for free through the daily rewards but needing millions of gold just to buy the right enchantments for your gear is bananas

Four_Fingers

Could be console economy is more controlled because we lack certain add ons.

Braffin

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

ShadowPaladin wrote: »

That is something which always happens in MMOs. The longer they run, the higher prices will get. I have seen this in SWToR (prices went from 10k for an item 8 years ago to 1mio for the same item today) and also in AION (here prices went from 100k to 100mio within 8 years for one item).

The only way to stop this would be to reset currencies back to zero within certain time frames or fix prices for items - for example by implementing caped selling prices or offering items through vendors for certain prices. Both things would need to be implemented BEFORE the game is released or shortly after its release. If done afterwards the playerbase will be in uproar.

We have a fee system that has a fix percentage. This proportion could increase with increasing prices.

Agreed, a progressive tax system could definitely combat inflation. Nice idea! 👍

Jimbru

The problem with inflation comes from many sources, probably the biggest being the money supply.

- To explain why, first we must distinguish between "new gold" and "old gold". New gold is constantly generated by the game, usually as rewards for doing something - killing a monster, finishing quests, daily login or whatever. Old gold is already in the possession of players, moving around as players buy and sell with each other, and leaving the game via "gold sinks" like the guild vendors, repair bills, The Golden and so forth. There probably is more old gold circulating in the PCNA economy than there is real money in many real countries.
- Unlike Other Games, ESO has only one increment of currency, so there is no "incremental" accumulation from copper to silver to gold; there is only gold (you read that in The Golden's voice) and as a result of having only one increment, there's a BLEEPing lot of it. To put this in perspective, an ESO player can make 5.1K new gold per character per day just from daily crafting writs. Millions (billions?) of new gold comes into the PCNA economy every day from that alone. In games with incremental currency, the accumulation of wealth is slower and inflation is lower; 5.1K gold in Guild Wars 2 is a medium sized fortune that the majority of GW2 players never reach.
- ESO has relatively few strong gold sinks, so the amount of new gold coming into the PCNA economy, greatly exceeds the amount of old gold going out. ESO also lacks a central trading system or price controls. The natural economic result is inflation, as seen in the prices on guild vendors.

So, how do we cure this "gold imbalance" problem?

- ESO could introduce incremental currency, which likely would be A. a major coding task, B. a reboot of the entire game economy around the new currency, and either way it's not practical.
- ESO could centralize its trading system to improve commerce, or introduce price controls such as GW2 has on its trading post. But again, that's a major change that's probably not practical at this point.
- Adding more guild vendors IS an option, and there are already many spots in the game world just waiting for vendors to be added without having to change the map. For example, there is only one guild vendor in Bleakrock Isle, but right next to the existing vendor, there are spots with wagons, tents et al, for at least two more. More vendors = more gold sinks, and more guilds able to participate fully in the game economy. Win-win.
- ESO could reduce gold rewards, to reduce the amount of new gold coming into the game. But that could backfire in various ways and particularly hurt newer players.
- ESO could rearrange problematic items, adjusting their drop rates to make them more common, or changing their properties such that they're not "the one and only" like Columbine.
- ESO could add more gold sinks, to reduce the stockpile of old gold. That needs its own section...
A. The single biggest gold sink ESO could add would be an in-game currency exchange where players can buy crowns for gold and vice versa, with a floating exchange rate based on demand. GW2, STO and Other Games have such exchanges, which play a large role in their economies. Besides the economic benefit, a currency exchange would enable lower income players who can't afford to pay real money for crowns, and be a secure path for buying gold or crowns INSIDE the game, where ZOS can control it and players can trade without fear of being scammed.
B. The Golden could expand her business to full time and carry a larger selection, instead of being just a weekend warrior.
C. There currently are many crowns-only houses, so how about making EVERY house available unfurnished for gold?
D. Directly related to that, there are MANY furnishing items in the game that are not presently available to players but we would love to have, like the black ink pot with a big white plume that you see everywhere, or the round stone board game you see in Summerset, or the whole blasted Imperial furnishing style. Start making more of those items available for gold on the furnishing vendors, instead of the generic items they presently carry.
E. Have Rahjin's shadows open a side business fencing a rotating inventory of crown store items for gold.

That's just some thoughts, anyway.

MJallday

ShadowPaladin wrote: »

That is something which always happens in MMOs. The longer they run, the higher prices will get. I have seen this in SWToR (prices went from 10k for an item 8 years ago to 1mio for the same item today) and also in AION (here prices went from 100k to 100mio within 8 years for one item).

The only way to stop this would be to reset currencies back to zero within certain time frames or fix prices for items - for example by implementing caped selling prices or offering items through vendors for certain prices. Both things would need to be implemented BEFORE the game is released or shortly after its release. If done afterwards the playerbase will be in uproar.

That’s not how you decrease inflation, in an MMO or indeed in real life


The way to do it is to increase supply.
Simply introduce an amount or supply of said materials which will render the high price null and void, driving prices down

Amottica

ShadowPaladin wrote: »

That is something which always happens in MMOs. The longer they run, the higher prices will get. I have seen this in SWToR (prices went from 10k for an item 8 years ago to 1mio for the same item today) and also in AION (here prices went from 100k to 100mio within 8 years for one item).

The only way to stop this would be to reset currencies back to zero within certain time frames or fix prices for items - for example by implementing caped selling prices or offering items through vendors for certain prices. Both things would need to be implemented BEFORE the game is released or shortly after its release. If done afterwards the playerbase will be in uproar.

True. I have yet to see a mature game to avoid inflation.

However, a price cap on items would lead to shortages since it is a higher price that would increase interest in farming whatever it is. Resetting currencies back to zero, assuming that is to drain our banks and take all of our gold, would just drive active players who have been wise with their gold. Punishing players like that never makes sense.

xylena_lazarow

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

"I don't like doing [insert unfavoured task here]. ZoS, change the game so I don't have to do it."

It's a game not a job. If the game is making you do unfavoured tasks to progress, yes that's the game's problem.

There's no reason PvPers should need to spend hours picking flowers to be competitive in PvP.