Necromancer Skill: Stalking Blastbones VS Grave Lord's Sacrifice.

Yamenstein · June 5

Stalking Blastbones

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Didn't want this to be lost in the noise. It looks like our criticisms of the 'in-combat' requirement of GLS have been heard loud and clear! Of all the issues presented with GLS, the in-combat was the most concerning. This was something that, if left unchallenged, could have spread to other classes, altering the flow of the game's combat in a negative fashion. Long way to go for the Necro but this is a victory. At the very least, it looks like 'in-combat' won't be spreading to other parts of the game.

I think they already have some other skills that require you to be in combat to obtain. You can't generate crux for example when outside of combat.

Someone who uses GLS please correct me - but don't you need to target an enemy to make the ability clickable?

I've tried GLS, you don't need a target to click/use the ability, only have to be in combat

Thanks for confirming. I used it at the start and then re-morphed it XD.

In an awesome necro day i would love the following to be modified.
Grave Lord
- Ult - fine with me
- Venom Skull - would love it to be undodgeable or at least not feel so clunky to use. Sometimes it feels like it never triggers but it could be my latency/button pressing speed
- BB - I don't mind what GLS is intended to do but I feel like thematically it doesn't fit with the BB skill in general. Why my BB is jumping at me for a hug is beyond me. Move the actual purpose of GLS to antoher skill and rework GLS to be something else. The stalking BB was great damage - both morphs could deal burst damage but maybe the secondary effect could be looked into. My issue with this skill in the past was the minion pathing and it was just a boring additional damage for stalking. The spawn time for the BB could be sped up a bit
- Boneyard, yeah it's fine
- Arcanist - just increase teh damage of the skeletal arc it is very lacklustre
- siphons are fine
-reusable parts - fine
- death knell - fine
- dismember - fine
- rapid rot - just remake this into what GLS currently offers and make it so its only active when a grave lord skill is active

Bone Tyrant
- ult - fine with me, but im curious who uses the bash morph ? could maybe do with a rework if it isnt used all that much
- scythe - fine
- armor - fine
- bitter harvest - fine
- totem - useless cc rework to function better
- grave grasp - useless cc rework to function better. is it better to just have the defensive capability of both this and totem as one skill and the offensive/cc capability of this and totem as another? maybe it will be loaded to heavily with both?
- death gleaning - ive always thought that this necro was a class that took advantage of corpses. can this passive instead provide higher recovery based on the corpses that you consume or corpses that litter the ground (which are applicable to you). basically a more you kill around you the stronger you get kind of situation
- disdain harm - fine
- health avarice - fine
- last gasp - fine. all 3 of these passives are jsut fine - maybe including conditions that grant you different named major buffs would be awesome. i'm happy to have this class be difficult to play - as long as when you play it has a good output.

Living Death
- ult - fine
- render flesh - fine
- expunge - fine - do many people use it?
- enduring undeath - are heals ever an issue in most content? its a boring skill and i would be surprised if this is used often because of all the healing that someone can output already - could be completely reworked to provide debuffs/buffs in a party setting
- guardian - maybe a bit of a buff to the non spirit guardian morph
- mortal coil - fine
- curative curses - fine - side note: i think for a class that was meant to be about debuffing maybe mroe skills to manage debuffs, on yourself and enemies
- near death experience - fine
- corpse consumption - fine - what i mentioned before about grave grasp could be part of this passive as it already deals with corpses
- undead conferate - fine

Note:
Most of my opinions are based on being self sufficient and i am probably missing some more ideas in a group setting
Probably OP ideas as well

tigerWhiskers · June 6

Stalking Blastbones

Yamenstein wrote: »

Note:
Most of my opinions are based on being self sufficient and i am probably missing some more ideas in a group setting
Probably OP ideas as well

Group setting dps necro is really lacking now. It can be fixed by the thing the developers have stated is supposed to be thematically necro. That is debuffs. Returning a unique debuff to necro that’s useful to an entire raid/dungeon group like they originally had would instantly return necro to relevance.
I’d like:
- Return unique debuff to the dps necro (which doesn’t instantly get put in the next sets released)
- Source of at least major prophecy in grave lord skill line
- Rework GLS to avoid the problems it has actually giving the buff in content, produces enough corpses, castable outside combat, strong enough to provide sufficient damage
- Acknowledge the high skill level required for necro by highly rewarding those who master the class.

I kinda liked your “The more corpses the stronger” idea.

BasP · June 6

Stalking Blastbones

Yamenstein wrote: »

- BB - I don't mind what GLS is intended to do but I feel like thematically it doesn't fit with the BB skill in general. Why my BB is jumping at me for a hug is beyond me.

Yeah, that part of the skill is definitely weird. Now I'm wondering if GLS would be better if the skeleton would just jump at an enemy and deal damage like BB does before granting the buff to DOTs and class skills.

If that were the case GLS itself shouldn't benefit from the buff to class skills I suppose, otherwise GLS could just be used instead of BB and it'd be buffed by 15% after the first cast, but it does seem like a better implementation than what we have now to me.

Edit: That way GLS would also still be able to generate corpses at your target's location, as you could use it as you see fit, and it'd just make GLS a more laid back alternative to BB with some added benefits for people that have trouble activating BB every third skill, but still want to launch a skeleton at their enemies occasionally.

tigerWhiskers · June 6

Stalking Blastbones

BasP wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

- BB - I don't mind what GLS is intended to do but I feel like thematically it doesn't fit with the BB skill in general. Why my BB is jumping at me for a hug is beyond me.

Yeah, that part of the skill is definitely weird. Now I'm wondering if GLS would be better if the skeleton would just jump at an enemy and deal damage like BB does before granting the buff to DOTs and class skills.

I think they should consider removing the skeleton altogether. Make it an insta-cast, out-of-combat buff that radiates pulses of skeletal hands similar to grave grasp. Any enemy hit gets a sticky DOT applied to them. Every third hit on an enemy a skeleton crawls from the pulsing ground, strikes the enemy and becomes a corpse.

Kalle_Demos · June 7

Stalking Blastbones

tigerWhiskers wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

- BB - I don't mind what GLS is intended to do but I feel like thematically it doesn't fit with the BB skill in general. Why my BB is jumping at me for a hug is beyond me.

Yeah, that part of the skill is definitely weird. Now I'm wondering if GLS would be better if the skeleton would just jump at an enemy and deal damage like BB does before granting the buff to DOTs and class skills.

I think they should consider removing the skeleton altogether. Make it an insta-cast, out-of-combat buff that radiates pulses of skeletal hands similar to grave grasp. Any enemy hit gets a sticky DOT applied to them. Every third hit on an enemy a skeleton crawls from the pulsing ground, strikes the enemy and becomes a corpse.

I don't recall if it was you, but someone made a similar suggestion in that GLS would generate multiple BlastBones at reduced damage. Applied correctly, this could solve the Necro's lack of distance corpse generation and the drawbacks of Blighted, specifically for Magcrows.

Kalle_Demos · June 7

Stalking Blastbones

Yamenstein wrote: »

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Didn't want this to be lost in the noise. It looks like our criticisms of the 'in-combat' requirement of GLS have been heard loud and clear! Of all the issues presented with GLS, the in-combat was the most concerning. This was something that, if left unchallenged, could have spread to other classes, altering the flow of the game's combat in a negative fashion. Long way to go for the Necro but this is a victory. At the very least, it looks like 'in-combat' won't be spreading to other parts of the game.

I think they already have some other skills that require you to be in combat to obtain. You can't generate crux for example when outside of combat.

Someone who uses GLS please correct me - but don't you need to target an enemy to make the ability clickable?

I wouldn't compare the in-combat aspect of GLS to the Arcanist's Crux mechanic. More akin to the Arc's TBI, NB's Blur or DK armor. It's a self buff, not a damage/heal skill that requires a target and in the Necro's case, tied to another skill, skulls. You know how you're in a dungeon, see a mob or boss and then activate any of the aforementioned abilities as you run into the encounter? For some reason, Zos doesn't like this. Pre-buffing. GLS requires you to be in-combat and THEN you can buff yourself, having access to the skulls bonuses. Previously with Stalking, you could simply target a distant enemy, in-combat or no, and have access to corpse at the local of the enemy and activating passives. GLS disrupted all that and IMO negatively impacts the flow of combat.

tigerWhiskers · June 8

Stalking Blastbones

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

I wouldn't compare the in-combat aspect of GLS to the Arcanist's Crux mechanic. More akin to the Arc's TBI, NB's Blur or DK armor. It's a self buff, not a damage/heal skill that requires a target and in the Necro's case, tied to another skill, skulls. You know how you're in a dungeon, see a mob or boss and then activate any of the aforementioned abilities as you run into the encounter? For some reason, Zos doesn't like this. Pre-buffing. GLS requires you to be in-combat and THEN you can buff yourself, having access to the skulls bonuses. Previously with Stalking, you could simply target a distant enemy, in-combat or no, and have access to corpse at the local of the enemy and activating passives. GLS disrupted all that and IMO negatively impacts the flow of combat.

Don’t forget it takes time for the buff to even find you assuming it doesn’t LOS itself. So it’s a main buff for the magica necro that is pretty much useless in most content. Like DOT need a certain number of ticks to be worth more than spammables, and you gotta wait for over 2 seconds after you enter content before you receive that buff. So you might as well not bother for most fights. Except your spammable looses a big chunk of its value without having it active so…. The flow of combat basically doesn’t exist anymore.

Urvoth · June 8

Stalking Blastbones

Nerouyn wrote: »

Alaztor91 wrote: »

It's something. There is no way that Ghostly Embrace/Grave Grasp ends up worse than how it is now... right?

Also, if you are tweaking GLS, for the love of Akatosh give the % buff immediately upon cast without delay and leave the Skeleton jumping to you part for the initial Corpse(could also make the Skeleton immune to CC and help Blighted BB at the same time, it's not funny having your main damage skill be completely disabled for X seconds)

It is something and I’m glad they are looking at Necro abilities. Hopefully “handful” means more than what they mentioned though. Offense is Necro’s biggest issue and even if the 3 they mentioned were tweaked, offense would still be a huge issue.

At this point the entire class may as well be wiped and redesigned. Looking at a "handful" of abilities after deleting the ONLY good damage skill in the entire kit isn't sufficient. Necro has been ignored and neglected for half a decade. It needs a complete overhaul at this point.

mariliaribas · June 8

Stalking Blastbones

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Didn't want this to be lost in the noise. It looks like our criticisms of the 'in-combat' requirement of GLS have been heard loud and clear! Of all the issues presented with GLS, the in-combat was the most concerning. This was something that, if left unchallenged, could have spread to other classes, altering the flow of the game's combat in a negative fashion. Long way to go for the Necro but this is a victory. At the very least, it looks like 'in-combat' won't be spreading to other parts of the game.

I think they already have some other skills that require you to be in combat to obtain. You can't generate crux for example when outside of combat.

Someone who uses GLS please correct me - but don't you need to target an enemy to make the ability clickable?

I've tried GLS, you don't need a target to click/use the ability, only have to be in combat

Have you tried in PVP tho? Because the targeting problem that was happening was specific to PVP. I mean, it's probably a consequence of the different requirements that "being in combat" has in pvp, but at least on the first days you needed to have a target to cast it.

Kalle_Demos · June 8

Stalking Blastbones

Urvoth wrote: »

Nerouyn wrote: »

Alaztor91 wrote: »

It's something. There is no way that Ghostly Embrace/Grave Grasp ends up worse than how it is now... right?

Also, if you are tweaking GLS, for the love of Akatosh give the % buff immediately upon cast without delay and leave the Skeleton jumping to you part for the initial Corpse(could also make the Skeleton immune to CC and help Blighted BB at the same time, it's not funny having your main damage skill be completely disabled for X seconds)

It is something and I’m glad they are looking at Necro abilities. Hopefully “handful” means more than what they mentioned though. Offense is Necro’s biggest issue and even if the 3 they mentioned were tweaked, offense would still be a huge issue.

At this point the entire class may as well be wiped and redesigned. Looking at a "handful" of abilities after deleting the ONLY good damage skill in the entire kit isn't sufficient. Necro has been ignored and neglected for half a decade. It needs a complete overhaul at this point.

Yeah... I'm glad that this situation has finally been addressed... But the Necro has a lot of problems and the few questions answered don't inspire much confidence, especially the tripling down on GLS. Normally, I'm all for careful adjustments regarding balance. But the implementation of GLS was quite the opposite and to the Class' detriment. It may ultimately take more than a few careful adjustments and tweaks to get the Necro back on track.

Yamenstein · June 8

Stalking Blastbones

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Nerouyn wrote: »

Alaztor91 wrote: »

It's something. There is no way that Ghostly Embrace/Grave Grasp ends up worse than how it is now... right?

Also, if you are tweaking GLS, for the love of Akatosh give the % buff immediately upon cast without delay and leave the Skeleton jumping to you part for the initial Corpse(could also make the Skeleton immune to CC and help Blighted BB at the same time, it's not funny having your main damage skill be completely disabled for X seconds)

It is something and I’m glad they are looking at Necro abilities. Hopefully “handful” means more than what they mentioned though. Offense is Necro’s biggest issue and even if the 3 they mentioned were tweaked, offense would still be a huge issue.

At this point the entire class may as well be wiped and redesigned. Looking at a "handful" of abilities after deleting the ONLY good damage skill in the entire kit isn't sufficient. Necro has been ignored and neglected for half a decade. It needs a complete overhaul at this point.

Yeah... I'm glad that this situation has finally been addressed... But the Necro has a lot of problems and the few questions answered don't inspire much confidence, especially the tripling down on GLS. Normally, I'm all for careful adjustments regarding balance. But the implementation of GLS was quite the opposite and to the Class' detriment. It may ultimately take more than a few careful adjustments and tweaks to get the Necro back on track.

Agreed. I’m expecting bandaid fixes when they should be getting major changes.

tigerWhiskers · June 9

Stalking Blastbones

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

tigerWhiskers wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

- BB - I don't mind what GLS is intended to do but I feel like thematically it doesn't fit with the BB skill in general. Why my BB is jumping at me for a hug is beyond me.

Yeah, that part of the skill is definitely weird. Now I'm wondering if GLS would be better if the skeleton would just jump at an enemy and deal damage like BB does before granting the buff to DOTs and class skills.

I think they should consider removing the skeleton altogether. Make it an insta-cast, out-of-combat buff that radiates pulses of skeletal hands similar to grave grasp. Any enemy hit gets a sticky DOT applied to them. Every third hit on an enemy a skeleton crawls from the pulsing ground, strikes the enemy and becomes a corpse.

I don't recall if it was you, but someone made a similar suggestion in that GLS would generate multiple BlastBones at reduced damage. Applied correctly, this could solve the Necro's lack of distance corpse generation and the drawbacks of Blighted, specifically for Magcrows.

Interesting that more than one of us have thought something like this might be a direction to take. It would keep magicka unique from stamina but still make it cohesive and solve a number of the current issues.
Adjust to provide major savagery/prophecy and return a unique debuff to the necro and I think I’d feel the class could be in a solid place personally.

Rasande_Robin · June 10

Stalking Blastbones

I'd like to hear them expand more on the concept of Necromancer being a debuffing class.

When they have nothing unique about them. I don't mind being a debuff-bot as long as I have a place in endgame trials (trif-progs).

But times are looking really grim now since they want to stack as many Arcanists as possible and with the new set coming out making EC-necro obsolete.

Do I have anything to hope for in the future?

Kalle_Demos · June 10

Stalking Blastbones

Rasande_Robin wrote: »

I'd like to hear them expand more on the concept of Necromancer being a debuffing class.

When they have nothing unique about them. I don't mind being a debuff-bot as long as I have a place in endgame trials (trif-progs).

But times are looking really grim now since they want to stack as many Arcanists as possible and with the new set coming out making EC-necro obsolete.

Do I have anything to hope for in the future?

While I'm interested in Necro's expanding into the debuffing 'role', I think we all have an interest in not relegating the Class to 'buff dps'. Play as you want, or so they say. Necros should be able to reach the same tiers of damage as other classes in their own right while also adding something unique to group compositions. As far as hope? Yes. The Arcanist is the new hot product, largely because it is fun and well designed. The praise being lauded on the Class is well deserved.

As I've commented on previously, the Necromancer is also a Class that they are trying to sell...largely ridiculed by the community...to the point where prospective customers are actively being warned away by other players. Whether professional pride or the company's bottom line, this situation is untenable. I have little doubt that the Necro will receive it's due attention. The fruits of which; sweet, bitter, not suitable for consumption? *In Darth Vader's voice* We shall see.

Kalle_Demos · June 12

Stalking Blastbones

tigerWhiskers wrote: »

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

tigerWhiskers wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

- BB - I don't mind what GLS is intended to do but I feel like thematically it doesn't fit with the BB skill in general. Why my BB is jumping at me for a hug is beyond me.

Yeah, that part of the skill is definitely weird. Now I'm wondering if GLS would be better if the skeleton would just jump at an enemy and deal damage like BB does before granting the buff to DOTs and class skills.

I think they should consider removing the skeleton altogether. Make it an insta-cast, out-of-combat buff that radiates pulses of skeletal hands similar to grave grasp. Any enemy hit gets a sticky DOT applied to them. Every third hit on an enemy a skeleton crawls from the pulsing ground, strikes the enemy and becomes a corpse.

I don't recall if it was you, but someone made a similar suggestion in that GLS would generate multiple BlastBones at reduced damage. Applied correctly, this could solve the Necro's lack of distance corpse generation and the drawbacks of Blighted, specifically for Magcrows.

Interesting that more than one of us have thought something like this might be a direction to take. It would keep magicka unique from stamina but still make it cohesive and solve a number of the current issues.
Adjust to provide major savagery/prophecy and return a unique debuff to the necro and I think I’d feel the class could be in a solid place personally.

Solid, reasonable steps for improving the Necromancer.

Drammanoth · June 12

Stalking Blastbones

I believed the 'Grave Lord's Sacrifice' will be great. 'Woo hoo, boosting the burning skull!'
I had been GRAVELY wrong.
Make it a debuffing class, as many of the players are suggesting - revert to Stalking Blastbones.

C_Inside · June 12

Stalking Blastbones

I love how ZOS' original idea was for necro to be the debuff class yet in today's game of ESO necro doesn't bring any unique or even remotely hard to get debuffs in its kit. Meanwhile DKs have Engulfing Flames and Wardens + Arcanists have Minor Brittle.

Changing Necro to be a dedicated debuff class with non named debuffs or unique named ones like Engulfing would make it more appealing but still not on par with the likes of DK or Arc. Why? Because those 2 classes can be played both as supports and raw damage dealers. The proposed change in making necro a debuff class would only make it a good support.

Furthermore by relegating necro to only be useful as a suport DD you're going against the game's mantra of "play how you want", which is woven into the DNA of every other class. What you'll end up with is 6 classes that can be played "how you want" and 1 restricted class that you can only play 1 specific way. This won't make necro more appealing.

No, necro needs both more raw power and more group utility to make it appealing. Overhauling the damage skills so 1 morph offers raw damage while the other cuts the damage but offers unique group buffs or "curses" the enemy with unnamed/unique debuffs would be perfect imo. Many skills have the problem that morphing barely does anything with 1 morph being clearly superior. So why not take the first steps in addressing this issue with necro?

Yamenstein · June 12

Stalking Blastbones

C_Inside wrote: »

I love how ZOS' original idea was for necro to be the debuff class yet in today's game of ESO necro doesn't bring any unique or even remotely hard to get debuffs in its kit. Meanwhile DKs have Engulfing Flames and Wardens + Arcanists have Minor Brittle.

Changing Necro to be a dedicated debuff class with non named debuffs or unique named ones like Engulfing would make it more appealing but still not on par with the likes of DK or Arc. Why? Because those 2 classes can be played both as supports and raw damage dealers. The proposed change in making necro a debuff class would only make it a good support.

Furthermore by relegating necro to only be useful as a suport DD you're going against the game's mantra of "play how you want", which is woven into the DNA of every other class. What you'll end up with is 6 classes that can be played "how you want" and 1 restricted class that you can only play 1 specific way. This won't make necro more appealing.

No, necro needs both more raw power and more group utility to make it appealing. Overhauling the damage skills so 1 morph offers raw damage while the other cuts the damage but offers unique group buffs or "curses" the enemy with unnamed/unique debuffs would be perfect imo. Many skills have the problem that morphing barely does anything with 1 morph being clearly superior. So why not take the first steps in addressing this issue with necro?

ZoS will do what they want. I’ve unsubscribed for now. Might join again if they improve things. BG3 here I come.

Kalle_Demos · June 12

Stalking Blastbones

C_Inside wrote: »

I love how ZOS' original idea was for necro to be the debuff class yet in today's game of ESO necro doesn't bring any unique or even remotely hard to get debuffs in its kit. Meanwhile DKs have Engulfing Flames and Wardens + Arcanists have Minor Brittle.

Changing Necro to be a dedicated debuff class with non named debuffs or unique named ones like Engulfing would make it more appealing but still not on par with the likes of DK or Arc. Why? Because those 2 classes can be played both as supports and raw damage dealers. The proposed change in making necro a debuff class would only make it a good support.

Furthermore by relegating necro to only be useful as a suport DD you're going against the game's mantra of "play how you want", which is woven into the DNA of every other class. What you'll end up with is 6 classes that can be played "how you want" and 1 restricted class that you can only play 1 specific way. This won't make necro more appealing.

No, necro needs both more raw power and more group utility to make it appealing. Overhauling the damage skills so 1 morph offers raw damage while the other cuts the damage but offers unique group buffs or "curses" the enemy with unnamed/unique debuffs would be perfect imo. Many skills have the problem that morphing barely does anything with 1 morph being clearly superior. So why not take the first steps in addressing this issue with necro?

I have this concern also. Giving something unique to the Necro is great but relegating the Class to a support role is, I think, an undesirable proposition to many players. Going back to the Q&A, Necro damage isn't addressed, Not that I saw, correct me if I'm wrong. Lets say everything mentioned in the Q&A comes to pass; GLS fixed, unique debuff, tweaks to skills here and there...The Necro is still hobbled damage wise from having it's best DD skill removed.

alpha_synuclein · June 13

Stalking Blastbones

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

C_Inside wrote: »

I love how ZOS' original idea was for necro to be the debuff class yet in today's game of ESO necro doesn't bring any unique or even remotely hard to get debuffs in its kit. Meanwhile DKs have Engulfing Flames and Wardens + Arcanists have Minor Brittle.

Changing Necro to be a dedicated debuff class with non named debuffs or unique named ones like Engulfing would make it more appealing but still not on par with the likes of DK or Arc. Why? Because those 2 classes can be played both as supports and raw damage dealers. The proposed change in making necro a debuff class would only make it a good support.

Furthermore by relegating necro to only be useful as a suport DD you're going against the game's mantra of "play how you want", which is woven into the DNA of every other class. What you'll end up with is 6 classes that can be played "how you want" and 1 restricted class that you can only play 1 specific way. This won't make necro more appealing.

No, necro needs both more raw power and more group utility to make it appealing. Overhauling the damage skills so 1 morph offers raw damage while the other cuts the damage but offers unique group buffs or "curses" the enemy with unnamed/unique debuffs would be perfect imo. Many skills have the problem that morphing barely does anything with 1 morph being clearly superior. So why not take the first steps in addressing this issue with necro?

I have this concern also. Giving something unique to the Necro is great but relegating the Class to a support role is, I think, an undesirable proposition to many players. Going back to the Q&A, Necro damage isn't addressed, Not that I saw, correct me if I'm wrong. Lets say everything mentioned in the Q&A comes to pass; GLS fixed, unique debuff, tweaks to skills here and there...The Necro is still hobbled damage wise from having it's best DD skill removed.

While I agree that being relegated to support is not the best option, it's still better than nothing (aka where we're heading now...).
Also, some extra support utilities might help bring back necro healers.

Kalle_Demos · June 15

Stalking Blastbones

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

C_Inside wrote: »

I love how ZOS' original idea was for necro to be the debuff class yet in today's game of ESO necro doesn't bring any unique or even remotely hard to get debuffs in its kit. Meanwhile DKs have Engulfing Flames and Wardens + Arcanists have Minor Brittle.

Changing Necro to be a dedicated debuff class with non named debuffs or unique named ones like Engulfing would make it more appealing but still not on par with the likes of DK or Arc. Why? Because those 2 classes can be played both as supports and raw damage dealers. The proposed change in making necro a debuff class would only make it a good support.

Furthermore by relegating necro to only be useful as a suport DD you're going against the game's mantra of "play how you want", which is woven into the DNA of every other class. What you'll end up with is 6 classes that can be played "how you want" and 1 restricted class that you can only play 1 specific way. This won't make necro more appealing.

No, necro needs both more raw power and more group utility to make it appealing. Overhauling the damage skills so 1 morph offers raw damage while the other cuts the damage but offers unique group buffs or "curses" the enemy with unnamed/unique debuffs would be perfect imo. Many skills have the problem that morphing barely does anything with 1 morph being clearly superior. So why not take the first steps in addressing this issue with necro?

I have this concern also. Giving something unique to the Necro is great but relegating the Class to a support role is, I think, an undesirable proposition to many players. Going back to the Q&A, Necro damage isn't addressed, Not that I saw, correct me if I'm wrong. Lets say everything mentioned in the Q&A comes to pass; GLS fixed, unique debuff, tweaks to skills here and there...The Necro is still hobbled damage wise from having it's best DD skill removed.

While I agree that being relegated to support is not the best option, it's still better than nothing (aka where we're heading now...).
Also, some extra support utilities might help bring back necro healers.

Nah, the Necro damage being subpar is unacceptable. We should all be clear about this. The product that we bought has been deliberately degraded to the point of unreliability and is barely recognizable.

Kalle_Demos · June 16

Stalking Blastbones

Yamenstein wrote: »

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Nerouyn wrote: »

Alaztor91 wrote: »

It's something. There is no way that Ghostly Embrace/Grave Grasp ends up worse than how it is now... right?

Also, if you are tweaking GLS, for the love of Akatosh give the % buff immediately upon cast without delay and leave the Skeleton jumping to you part for the initial Corpse(could also make the Skeleton immune to CC and help Blighted BB at the same time, it's not funny having your main damage skill be completely disabled for X seconds)

It is something and I’m glad they are looking at Necro abilities. Hopefully “handful” means more than what they mentioned though. Offense is Necro’s biggest issue and even if the 3 they mentioned were tweaked, offense would still be a huge issue.

At this point the entire class may as well be wiped and redesigned. Looking at a "handful" of abilities after deleting the ONLY good damage skill in the entire kit isn't sufficient. Necro has been ignored and neglected for half a decade. It needs a complete overhaul at this point.

Yeah... I'm glad that this situation has finally been addressed... But the Necro has a lot of problems and the few questions answered don't inspire much confidence, especially the tripling down on GLS. Normally, I'm all for careful adjustments regarding balance. But the implementation of GLS was quite the opposite and to the Class' detriment. It may ultimately take more than a few careful adjustments and tweaks to get the Necro back on track.

Agreed. I’m expecting bandaid fixes when they should be getting major changes.

The Necro of today is the product of systematic chipping away of the foundation. I hope it's reconstruction isn't bit by bit.

Kalle_Demos · June 18

Stalking Blastbones

Yamenstein wrote: »

C_Inside wrote: »

I love how ZOS' original idea was for necro to be the debuff class yet in today's game of ESO necro doesn't bring any unique or even remotely hard to get debuffs in its kit. Meanwhile DKs have Engulfing Flames and Wardens + Arcanists have Minor Brittle.

Changing Necro to be a dedicated debuff class with non named debuffs or unique named ones like Engulfing would make it more appealing but still not on par with the likes of DK or Arc. Why? Because those 2 classes can be played both as supports and raw damage dealers. The proposed change in making necro a debuff class would only make it a good support.

Furthermore by relegating necro to only be useful as a suport DD you're going against the game's mantra of "play how you want", which is woven into the DNA of every other class. What you'll end up with is 6 classes that can be played "how you want" and 1 restricted class that you can only play 1 specific way. This won't make necro more appealing.

No, necro needs both more raw power and more group utility to make it appealing. Overhauling the damage skills so 1 morph offers raw damage while the other cuts the damage but offers unique group buffs or "curses" the enemy with unnamed/unique debuffs would be perfect imo. Many skills have the problem that morphing barely does anything with 1 morph being clearly superior. So why not take the first steps in addressing this issue with necro?

ZoS will do what they want. I’ve unsubscribed for now. Might join again if they improve things. BG3 here I come.

As I've pointed out in a number of posts here, Zos has an incentive to listen to us on this one. They finally acknowledged the issue in the Q&A and may even abandon the in-combat requirement. Our feedback/criticisms are working.

Alaztor91 · June 22

Stalking Blastbones

Did a quick check on ESO Logs for the new Trial and it seems that GLS is still inferior to Blighted BB. Even if ZOS removes the ''in combat'' requirement it's not really going to make a big difference.

FelisCatus · June 22

Stalking Blastbones

When will this thread end? It's getting tiring seeing it up for months. I don't even know how to unsubscribe from this thread.

Kalle_Demos · June 24

Stalking Blastbones

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Did a quick check on ESO Logs for the new Trial and it seems that GLS is still inferior to Blighted BB. Even if ZOS removes the ''in combat'' requirement it's not really going to make a big difference.

I agree. It would be a small step in the right direction but there is much to do in order to undo the damage GLS has done to the Necro Class. Pun intended.

Kalle_Demos · June 24

Stalking Blastbones

FelisCatus wrote: »

When will this thread end? It's getting tiring seeing it up for months. I don't even know how to unsubscribe from this thread.

Go to setting and adjust your notification preferences. Maybe you have the *New comments on posts I've participated in* option activated.

Twohothardware · June 24

Stalking Blastbones

They need to go back to the original release of Necromancer undoing every previous nerf and start from there. With the current state of other classes like Arcanist, DK, and Sorcerer the Necro would not be unbalanced any more.

Yamenstein · June 25

Stalking Blastbones

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Did a quick check on ESO Logs for the new Trial and it seems that GLS is still inferior to Blighted BB. Even if ZOS removes the ''in combat'' requirement it's not really going to make a big difference.

I agree. It would be a small step in the right direction but there is much to do in order to undo the damage GLS has done to the Necro Class. Pun intended.

It wouldn't even be a step. They move at a snails pace when it comes to the Necromancer class because they don't know what they want from the class.
Us giving feedback is all great - but lol no one should subscribe to play this class. They shouldn't even purchase this class if they have it unlocked.

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

C_Inside wrote: »

I love how ZOS' original idea was for necro to be the debuff class yet in today's game of ESO necro doesn't bring any unique or even remotely hard to get debuffs in its kit. Meanwhile DKs have Engulfing Flames and Wardens + Arcanists have Minor Brittle.

Changing Necro to be a dedicated debuff class with non named debuffs or unique named ones like Engulfing would make it more appealing but still not on par with the likes of DK or Arc. Why? Because those 2 classes can be played both as supports and raw damage dealers. The proposed change in making necro a debuff class would only make it a good support.

Furthermore by relegating necro to only be useful as a suport DD you're going against the game's mantra of "play how you want", which is woven into the DNA of every other class. What you'll end up with is 6 classes that can be played "how you want" and 1 restricted class that you can only play 1 specific way. This won't make necro more appealing.

No, necro needs both more raw power and more group utility to make it appealing. Overhauling the damage skills so 1 morph offers raw damage while the other cuts the damage but offers unique group buffs or "curses" the enemy with unnamed/unique debuffs would be perfect imo. Many skills have the problem that morphing barely does anything with 1 morph being clearly superior. So why not take the first steps in addressing this issue with necro?

ZoS will do what they want. I’ve unsubscribed for now. Might join again if they improve things. BG3 here I come.

As I've pointed out in a number of posts here, Zos has an incentive to listen to us on this one. They finally acknowledged the issue in the Q&A and may even abandon the in-combat requirement. Our feedback/criticisms are working.

And as ZoS has pointed out a number of times - they do not take feedback as expected. They acknowledged that some skills are not as useful as they could be, some buffs are missing from the toolkit and the GLS skill in-combat requirement is being looked into. That does not give me great confidence in them. Their track record has not proven that one should have great confidence in them.

Any necro player who wants to provide incentive to ZoS is better off unsubscribing.

Kalle_Demos · June 25

Stalking Blastbones

Yamenstein wrote: »

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Did a quick check on ESO Logs for the new Trial and it seems that GLS is still inferior to Blighted BB. Even if ZOS removes the ''in combat'' requirement it's not really going to make a big difference.

I agree. It would be a small step in the right direction but there is much to do in order to undo the damage GLS has done to the Necro Class. Pun intended.

It wouldn't even be a step. They move at a snails pace when it comes to the Necromancer class because they don't know what they want from the class.
Us giving feedback is all great - but lol no one should subscribe to play this class. They shouldn't even purchase this class if they have it unlocked.

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

C_Inside wrote: »

I love how ZOS' original idea was for necro to be the debuff class yet in today's game of ESO necro doesn't bring any unique or even remotely hard to get debuffs in its kit. Meanwhile DKs have Engulfing Flames and Wardens + Arcanists have Minor Brittle.

Changing Necro to be a dedicated debuff class with non named debuffs or unique named ones like Engulfing would make it more appealing but still not on par with the likes of DK or Arc. Why? Because those 2 classes can be played both as supports and raw damage dealers. The proposed change in making necro a debuff class would only make it a good support.

Furthermore by relegating necro to only be useful as a suport DD you're going against the game's mantra of "play how you want", which is woven into the DNA of every other class. What you'll end up with is 6 classes that can be played "how you want" and 1 restricted class that you can only play 1 specific way. This won't make necro more appealing.

No, necro needs both more raw power and more group utility to make it appealing. Overhauling the damage skills so 1 morph offers raw damage while the other cuts the damage but offers unique group buffs or "curses" the enemy with unnamed/unique debuffs would be perfect imo. Many skills have the problem that morphing barely does anything with 1 morph being clearly superior. So why not take the first steps in addressing this issue with necro?

ZoS will do what they want. I’ve unsubscribed for now. Might join again if they improve things. BG3 here I come.

As I've pointed out in a number of posts here, Zos has an incentive to listen to us on this one. They finally acknowledged the issue in the Q&A and may even abandon the in-combat requirement. Our feedback/criticisms are working.

And as ZoS has pointed out a number of times - they do not take feedback as expected. They acknowledged that some skills are not as useful as they could be, some buffs are missing from the toolkit and the GLS skill in-combat requirement is being looked into. That does not give me great confidence in them. Their track record has not proven that one should have great confidence in them.

Any necro player who wants to provide incentive to ZoS is better off unsubscribing.

Can't really argue with this. Action >>>>>>> Words and Zos does not have the best track record. But I stand by my point. They want to make money and one easy way to do that is to restore the classic and previously much requested ES Necromancer Class that is for sale as a feature in their game. Not so easy to ignore compared to less than inspired Base Game elements.