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(REQUEST) unban everyone who was banned for the transmute exploit.

  • Sluggy
    Sluggy
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    Tannus15 wrote: »
    Honestly the only person who should be banned for this is whoever signed off on the event going live with such an obvious issue.
    it's so dumb.

    as soon as i saw the event i thought what are they doing about deconstruction? literally the first thing i thought.

    you're punishing the wrong people here.

    No joke. My very first thought was something like, "Wait, so are we gonna be able to reduce the cost lower than what we get back. Nooooo, that'd be insane." After I finished laughing out loud at the thought of it, just for fun I looked into it and sure enough, it worked just like that. Then I cackled like an idiot for maybe a minute.
  • BejaProphet
    BejaProphet
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    To be fair, they did tell us to "make the most out of making things."
    6gtbbxwcl1to.png

    Notice that they didn't say "(repeatedly) making and unmaking things".

    So you are like following this thread just so you can repeatedly chime in to express lack of sympathy? I’m not even mad at you. I’m just trying to fathom doing that.
  • the1andonlyskwex
    the1andonlyskwex
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    To be fair, they did tell us to "make the most out of making things."
    6gtbbxwcl1to.png

    Notice that they didn't say "(repeatedly) making and unmaking things".

    So you are like following this thread just so you can repeatedly chime in to express lack of sympathy? I’m not even mad at you. I’m just trying to fathom doing that.

    Yup!
  • NoSoup
    NoSoup
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    wilykcat wrote: »
    Another one of these threads 🙄... here's my feedback for all of them. I've seen a lot of these types of threads all week across the forums.

    Here's why theres a lack of responses from zos:
    Customer service is overwhelmed with appeals and are recieving so many demands and requests. So it will take them longer to resolve the issues. The developers could be working on a fix to this bug asap. They're very busy.

    Here's a tip:
    Complaining about this won't get the problem resolved any faster. Instead it will slow down the process. It's better to be patient and do something good.

    An opinion:
    Those who intentionally exploit the bug and cheat deserve the penalty. Permanent bans are mostly for the repeat offenders. A week long suspension will expire and it's nothing to worry about. It's a less sever penalty.

    Here's my response:
    And I do agree with your post on having the extra stuff taken away.

    So here is my suggestion:
    If a player is caught exploiting a bug that causes them to receive extra stuff. For first time offenders, they should recieve a warning and their extra stuff taken away. Next time it could be a temporary or a permanent suspension based on the severity of exploiting/cheating and based on the repetition of that behavior.


    Remember:
    It's Zenimax decision if a penalty gets reduced, removed, or stays.

    I was smart enough to come straight to the forums when I saw the crafting event announcement and the threads were enough to convince me not to reconstruct/deconstruct. The problem for me, and why I think these bans are harsh, is that so many people keeping talking about a "bug being exploited". Thing is, this wasn't a bug, it was just a dumb dumb oversight by the team who planned this event. Where you obviously know its a bug (perfected MA rewards in normal, being able to trade zircon plating after the "conversion" without them actually leaving your inventory) yes bans are necessary, yet in both those above mentioned cases ban waves weren't handed out. Yet, we've had an absolute slew of bans from what can only be described as poor planning from ZOS.
    Formally SirDopey, lost forum account during the great reset.....
  • Lags
    Lags
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    id also like to point out that, at this stage in this game, its purely obscene laziness to not have a news section on the launcher, or somewhere at the login screen, or anywhere really, with important information such as things like this. It could be with the other news on the launcher, in big red letters, or maybe in the announcement section. How do you expect people to know something is an exploit when you dont announce it anywhere?
  • Ph1p
    Ph1p
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    To be fair, they did tell us to "make the most out of making things."
    6gtbbxwcl1to.png

    Notice that they didn't say "(repeatedly) making and unmaking things".

    So you are like following this thread just so you can repeatedly chime in to express lack of sympathy? I’m not even mad at you. I’m just trying to fathom doing that.

    I have full sympathy for people who - for example - genuinely created new builds, deconstructed an item in between because they made a mistake or something, and then got banned somehow. That and similar cases make no sense and should be reversed ASAP.

    I have zero sympathy for people who reconstructed and deconstructed dozens of items with the sole purpose of gaining more transmutes than they put in. Especially if they use flimsy excuses like: "Technically, I deconstructed old items that cost the full transmute price." Lol, that's not the point. You replaced those old items with cheap ones and thus took advantage of an exploit, period. It doesn't matter whether you deconstruct them immediately or add them to your reservoir to gain the extra transmutes later.
  • uniqpy
    uniqpy
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    People's lack of responsibility baffles me. You've got to be lacking in the brain department if you genuinely thought that gaining free transmutes from sitting there reconstructing and deconstructing sets was part of the event. Any innocent people caught-up in this should of course be unbanned. But any playing the the woe is me ZOS said free transmutes was a feature is incredibly transparent, you dont even think that, your just mad u exploited and were caught.
  • Blood_again
    Blood_again
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    To be fair, they did tell us to "make the most out of making things."
    6gtbbxwcl1to.png

    Did you read it as "Go, do a crime"?
  • LouisaB75
    LouisaB75
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    Drako_Ei wrote: »
    I am honestly scared of playing the game at this point.

    Remember that time where mobs in imperial city were giving more XP than usual?

    People that failed to notice got perma banned. I used to play with a friend that stopped playing because he got banned from this incident.

    I dodged a bullet here, because I was going to reconstruct full 3 sets during the event, thank god I didn't

    Not sure what the bug was but think maybe I dodged that same bullet. I have been struggling with my stamina arcanist and decided to switch her to magicka last weekend, as my other arcanist who is magicka I find much easier (but is the wrong alliance for pvp, hence 2).

    I was going to decon her current sets and recon new ones for her but haven't done so yet as I am dithering over my options.
  • LikiLoki
    LikiLoki
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    When a developer shifts his blame onto the players, this is the way to the abyss. If we recall the past, there was an incident when a Luxury furniture dealer sold a throne for 0 gold. People filled their inventory with them. Probably today, in such a situation, these people were executed.
    Transmuting stones were obtained within the framework of the event using the festive mechanics of the event, people did not consider that they were taking advantage of vulnerability, and thought that they were receiving gifts.
    joke^_^ Next month, will ZOS give players Orsinium, and then ban them for getting free DLC that other players paid money for
    Edited by LikiLoki on February 29, 2024 10:39AM
  • Laivine_Aldaron
    Lags wrote: »
    How do you expect people to know something is an exploit when you dont announce it anywhere?

    First of all I would like to say I will never defend any game developer, for the sake of argument. BUT, there is not one gamer that doesn't know that when they can infinite replicate items for free isn't an exploit. NONE, NADA, ZERO. They just rely on the "It is their bug, not my fault" or "They cannot ban everyone" logic. LOL, guess what.

    You know what you are doing. Every single time. pls.

  • loosej
    loosej
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    wilykcat wrote: »
    Here's why theres a lack of responses from zos:
    Customer service is overwhelmed with appeals and are recieving so many demands and requests. So it will take them longer to resolve the issues. The developers could be working on a fix to this bug asap. They're very busy.

    Unless you're a ZoS employee there's no way to know that I think?

  • EF321
    EF321
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    LikiLoki wrote: »
    When a developer shifts his blame onto the players, this is the way to the abyss. If we recall the past, there was an incident when a Luxury furniture dealer sold a throne for 0 gold. People filled their inventory with them. Probably today, in such a situation, these people were executed.
    Transmuting stones were obtained within the framework of the event using the festive mechanics of the event, people did not consider that they were taking advantage of vulnerability, and thought that they were receiving gifts.
    joke^_^ Next month, will ZOS give players Orsinium, and then ban them for getting free DLC that other players paid money for

    This. The moment it was presented as a limited time event and announcement encouraging participation was pushed to everyone's screen, this stopped being an exploit.
  • frogthroat
    frogthroat
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    Ugrak wrote: »
    The TOS are clear about exploits being sanctionable so it's hard to be sympathetic about people who spotted an exploit of this nature (effectively an item duplication glitch) and then dogpiled it on an industrial scale.
    The problem with this is that for example I thought whoever came up with this event would be at least somewhat aware of how the transmute system works. I did not take into account that people at ZOS who designed this mini event had no clue about crafting.

    When I read what the event was about my first thought was "so, free transmute crystals from deconstruction, then?" I thought I might try to deconstruct one item to see if I get 25 or 13 crystals from deconstruct. Since I thought someone at ZOS would surely know how the system works I was guessing also deconstruction is halved. But if not, I guess they want to give us free transmute crystals.

    I was not even thinking it would be an exploit since they advertised it. Especially because you have a limit of 1000 transmutes, you have a limited bank/storage space and the reconstructed items can only be used by you. So it wouldn't break any in-game economy. Perhaps for a short while random normal dungeons would be slightly more quiet.

    So at least I was under the assumption that this was exactly what was planned by ZOS.

    Luckily I was at work when the event started and they fixed it before I got off from work because I would have definitely used the advertised functions in this mini event and got banned for it.
  • pmn100b16_ESO
    pmn100b16_ESO
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    So what happens to the people who have reconstructed hundreds of pieces of gear during the event, stored them all on alts, in the bank, etc with the sole intention of deconstructing for double crystals but are going to do it slowly as and when they need to over the next months/years? They're doing the exact same thing but won't get banned.
    Edited by pmn100b16_ESO on February 29, 2024 12:14PM
  • Sluggy
    Sluggy
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    You know, I considered it an exploitable bug at first but after reading some comments and considering it further I have to say that users are 100% in the right if they were using it to generate transmutes.

    1) It's not affecting the economy in any way. Items created are account-bound and transmutes are account-bound. This has an operationally insignificant impact on the short or long-term economy of the game.

    2) It is NOT an infinite transmutes glitch. We have limited storage for transmutes and limited storage for items. Simply put, there is no way to create an indefinite amount of these things that it would do any harm.

    3) Some people were apparently using it to farm nirncrux - I'll conceded that this IS a bug that can be exploited and so I think temp bans are justifed here for the inverse of the reasons stated here. It is possible to damage the economy since nirncrux isn't account-bound and you can store an infinite amount of the stuff if you have the craft bag.

    So in short, anyone that was simply using this as the wording entirely implied was intended (to reconstruct mass amounts of items via transmutes) absolutely should not be banned. Anyone that was using it otherwise to generate infinite amounts of sellable materials on the other hand is justifiably bannable.
  • Grizzbeorn
    Grizzbeorn
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    Sluggy wrote: »

    1) It's not affecting the economy in any way. Items created are account-bound and transmutes are account-bound. This has an operationally insignificant impact on the short or long-term economy of the game.

    Wrong.
    People were using the extra crystals to generate tons of nirncrux (some folks had their entire guild bent toward this endeavor, and bragged about it on the forum), which isn't account-bound; the sale of which DOES have an effect on the economy.

    Edited by Grizzbeorn on February 29, 2024 1:08PM
      PC/NA Warden Main
    • frogthroat
      frogthroat
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      Sluggy wrote: »
      3) Some people were apparently using it to farm nirncrux - I'll conceded that this IS a bug that can be exploited and so I think temp bans are justifed here for the inverse of the reasons stated here. It is possible to damage the economy since nirncrux isn't account-bound and you can store an infinite amount of the stuff if you have the craft bag.
      Yeah, that's a good point. And yes, this would have impact on the in-game economy. I didn't even think of that. I was just happy I could temporarily solve my chronic transmute crystal deficiency, had they not fixed it before I could even try.
    • Braffin
      Braffin
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      I think permabans would clearly overdo it, given the circumstances of the exploit, as zos isn't free from guilt on this one.

      Temporal bans and rollbacks for those, which tried to "print their own money" by exploiting the bug to accumulate nirncrux are more than justified tho.

      I feel sorry for those, which were "banned for investigation" accidentally. Afaik there are people, which didn't try to exploit but weren't aware of the bug while doing their usual stuff. These players should be compensated for the lost playtime during MYM somehow. It would be just fair.
      Never get between a cat and it's candy!
      ---
      Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.
    • reazea
      reazea
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      It's not an exploit to use a system that ZOS created in the way that ZOS created it to be used.
    • Braffin
      Braffin
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      reazea wrote: »
      It's not an exploit to use a system that ZOS created in the way that ZOS created it to be used.

      Yeah, it is. Zos implemented a bug by accident (quite an obvious one btw, shouldn't have happened).

      Abusing a bug to gain whatever profit is usually called "exploiting".
      Never get between a cat and it's candy!
      ---
      Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.
    • reazea
      reazea
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      Braffin wrote: »
      reazea wrote: »
      It's not an exploit to use a system that ZOS created in the way that ZOS created it to be used.

      Yeah, it is. Zos implemented a bug by accident (quite an obvious one btw, shouldn't have happened).

      Abusing a bug to gain whatever profit is usually called "exploiting".

      It wasn't a bug, and it wasn't implemented by accident.

      If ZOS put an item in the crown store that they meant to cost crowns, but listed the item as being free, would it be an exploit for players to purchase that item? And would those who took advantage of the free price be exploiters deserving of a permanent ban?

      Edited by reazea on February 29, 2024 4:27PM
    • jaws343
      jaws343
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      reazea wrote: »
      Braffin wrote: »
      reazea wrote: »
      It's not an exploit to use a system that ZOS created in the way that ZOS created it to be used.

      Yeah, it is. Zos implemented a bug by accident (quite an obvious one btw, shouldn't have happened).

      Abusing a bug to gain whatever profit is usually called "exploiting".

      It wasn't a bug, and it wasn't implemented by accident.

      If ZOS put an item in the crown store that they meant to cost crowns, but listed the item as being free, would it be an exploit for players to purchase that item? And would those who took advantage of the free price be exploiters deserving of a permanent ban?

      I mean, yeah it would be an exploit to take advantage of a bug or mistake for gain.

      Just like if your bank gave you an extra 20$ in your account, you are stealing the money if you use it. It being a bug or mistake doesn't change that fact.
    • Ph1p
      Ph1p
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      reazea wrote: »
      Braffin wrote: »
      reazea wrote: »
      It's not an exploit to use a system that ZOS created in the way that ZOS created it to be used.

      Yeah, it is. Zos implemented a bug by accident (quite an obvious one btw, shouldn't have happened).

      Abusing a bug to gain whatever profit is usually called "exploiting".

      It wasn't a bug, and it wasn't implemented by accident.

      If ZOS put an item in the crown store that they meant to cost crowns, but listed the item as being free, would it be an exploit for players to purchase that item? And would those who took advantage of the free price be exploiters deserving of a permanent ban?

      If they could sell that “free” item to an NPC for gold, then purposefully bought and sold it again and again, yes absolutely.
    • Braffin
      Braffin
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      reazea wrote: »
      Braffin wrote: »
      reazea wrote: »
      It's not an exploit to use a system that ZOS created in the way that ZOS created it to be used.

      Yeah, it is. Zos implemented a bug by accident (quite an obvious one btw, shouldn't have happened).

      Abusing a bug to gain whatever profit is usually called "exploiting".

      It wasn't a bug, and it wasn't implemented by accident.

      If ZOS put an item in the crown store that they meant to cost crowns, but listed the item as being free, would it be an exploit for players to purchase that item? And would those who took advantage of the free price be exploiters deserving of a permanent ban?

      Your definition of "bug" and "implementing by accident" seem a bit odd to me.

      Afaik zos reacted unusually quick after they were aware of the issue. So it was definitely not implemented on purpose. It was a grave and unintended oversight, in other words a bug, implemented by accident.

      Gaining transmutes by simply doing a loop of reconstructing and deconning was clearly never intended, nor was the event advertized this way.

      I'm sure some people thought themselves very smart to repurpose the transmute station into an infinite printer of transmutes, nirncrux and therefore also coin. Well, time to think about that again, it seems.
      Never get between a cat and it's candy!
      ---
      Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.
    • Major_Toughness
      Major_Toughness
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      reazea wrote: »
      Braffin wrote: »
      reazea wrote: »
      It's not an exploit to use a system that ZOS created in the way that ZOS created it to be used.

      Yeah, it is. Zos implemented a bug by accident (quite an obvious one btw, shouldn't have happened).

      Abusing a bug to gain whatever profit is usually called "exploiting".

      It wasn't a bug, and it wasn't implemented by accident.

      If ZOS put an item in the crown store that they meant to cost crowns, but listed the item as being free, would it be an exploit for players to purchase that item? And would those who took advantage of the free price be exploiters deserving of a permanent ban?

      The reconstruction cost wasn't introduced by accident. But deconstruction giving more than you used to reconstruct is not intended.
    • moderatelyfatman
      moderatelyfatman
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      wilykcat wrote: »
      Another one of these threads 🙄... here's my feedback for all of them. I've seen a lot of these types of threads all week across the forums.


      Remember:
      It's Zenimax decision if a penalty gets reduced, removed, or stays.

      Remember:
      It's our decision if the players respond by staying or quitting the game in response to this.
    • TheMajority
      TheMajority
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      wilykcat wrote: »
      Another one of these threads 🙄... here's my feedback for all of them. I've seen a lot of these types of threads all week across the forums.

      Here's why theres a lack of responses from zos:
      Customer service is overwhelmed with appeals and are recieving so many demands and requests. So it will take them longer to resolve the issues. The developers could be working on a fix to this bug asap. They're very busy.

      Here's a tip:
      Complaining about this won't get the problem resolved any faster. Instead it will slow down the process. It's better to be patient and do something good.

      An opinion:
      Those who intentionally exploit the bug and cheat deserve the penalty. Permanent bans are mostly for the repeat offenders. A week long suspension will expire and it's nothing to worry about. It's a less sever penalty.

      Here's my response:
      And I do agree with your post on having the extra stuff taken away.

      So here is my suggestion:
      If a player is caught exploiting a bug that causes them to receive extra stuff. For first time offenders, they should recieve a warning and their extra stuff taken away. Next time it could be a temporary or a permanent suspension based on the severity of exploiting/cheating and based on the repetition of that behavior.


      Remember:
      It's Zenimax decision if a penalty gets reduced, removed, or stays.

      You are not a representative of ZOS and can't speak for why they do anything, your post is very misleading because you don't actually know the truth. You are not a MOD.

      People need to speak out about it because if you stop to push an issue then it gets forgotten and people wrongfully banned don't get justice. It is BETTER to make this a large thing and spread it around as far as possible to get people help. As a community rise up, don't sit on your hands when your voice added to others can push the company to do something about those who were wrongfully banned.

      Telling people not to do that is wrong.
    • Tyralbin
      Tyralbin
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      kkkkdog wrote: »
      Has anybody heard of anybody or had their investigation outcome yet

      Starting to feel like at this point getting one at all is wishful thinking

      The problem is noboby is allowed to discuss the outcome of their ban.

      If they did it would probably be deleted by the mods anyway.
      Live a little love a lot send all your gold to this Imperials pot.
    • kkkkdog
      kkkkdog
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      @Tyralbin

      Just whether or not they actually got a reply would be great. I’m just sitting here checking my email like, nope still no email fantastic
    This discussion has been closed.