Does anyone review the weekly endeavors?

BlueRaven

Syldras wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

There has been a change in philosophy with Necrom. Zos seems almost anti-casual player now.

What do you mean? The only thing that comes to my mind is the "world event" you have to group for (which annoys me too, btw).

BlueRaven wrote: »

These “choices” seem to be following that trend.

I think it's more a case of thoughtlessness, as in not keeping in mind that there ideally should be 1 option for every different play style, and instead completely focussing on this week's event theme. Just like they did last week with the crafting stuff.

With Necrom zos has;

-Heavily nerfed oak/ha builds again.
-Made World Events into a semi dungeon experience.
-Made wbs more difficult, with reduced rewards making them less farmable.
-Turned the 3rd (4th?) quarter questing zone into an arena environment (IA).
-Placed housing plans and housing materials in IA.

[snip]

These endeavors are just emblematic of that shift in philosophy.

[edited for bashing]

BlueRaven

Elsonso wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I am almost not surprised. There has been a change in philosophy with Necrom. Zos seems almost anti-casual player now.

The term "casual" is not very descriptive, mainly because the number of definitions of that word is just slightly less than the number of players in the game.

Seems to me that the first one was written with PVE players in mind. Assuming it is not a mistake, that is. They could have easily set that at 150, which would have given the regular Cyrodiil players something to work towards. As it is, 15 is basically just a "show up and get rewarded", and that is definitely beneficial for the PVE players who spend no time in Cyrodiil, but are willing to give it a go for the event.

I expect that the first one will be, by a massively wide margin, the most common one completed.

I define casual as:

-Does not group up.
-Does not have a build.
-Is more interested in how their character and house looks, than learning how to weave light attacks.

Those players, in their overland blues and purples, and their low dps, those are the casual type players that dominates mmos.

These are the players that keep asking for pve versions of cyrodiil and ic, because they won’t go in there otherwise.

That is why other mmos are turning their group dungeons into solo (casual friendly) experiences.

These players know they are “under powered” compared to other players. They don’t want to compete against them, nor be the weak link in a group. They just want to play by themselves and not bother anyone.

Dagoth_Rac

ZOS really needs to announce events earlier. This would likely go down smoother if players were more confident that MYM really, truly starts this Thursday.

Elsonso

BlueRaven wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

The term "casual" is not very descriptive, mainly because the number of definitions of that word is just slightly less than the number of players in the game.

I define casual as:

-Does not group up.
-Does not have a build.
-Is more interested in how their character and house looks, than learning how to weave light attacks.

Those players, in their overland blues and purples, and their low dps

Seems to me that the first weekly endeavor is basically written to make it relatively easy for players matching that definition, and a number of others, to get the endeavor.

TaSheen

I'm absolutely delighted that a 2-week mayhem event is giving me a 2-week vacation to do other things I need to do. I never pvp, I never need tickets bad enough to mess with it, so I don't have to do something I despise.

Have fun those who love pvp, and I mean that sincerely. I still think there should be pvp options for you all in every event.

sarahthes

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

ZOS really needs to announce events earlier. This would likely go down smoother if players were more confident that MYM really, truly starts this Thursday.

Remember how they gave us a full week's notice for the big (non surprise) events?

I miss those days.

AzuraFan

I always look forward to Mondays in ESO because there will be a new weekly endeavor I can sink my teeth into. Sure, they can sometimes be done quickly, but usually they take some time. Often there's only one I can do, and sometimes that one isn't really all that great for me, but at least there's one and I do it.

I logged in today, checked the weekly endeavor, and was very disappointed. Two in PvP zones, and trials. Nothing for the casual player. Nothing for players who don't like to group.

Usually there's at least one for every type of player. What happened this week? If it's because of an upcoming mayhem event, not everyone participates, so I would still expect one to be available to casual players and soloists.

I've mentioned before that often it's only the endeavors that keep me logging in on a regular basis, so I hope this isn't going to be a trend.

Oh well. More time on other games this week, I guess.

Syldras

BlueRaven, I agree with you concerning some of the mentioned points, but in others I don't really see a big problem, to be honest. And I'm someone who plays alone most of the time and doesn't have the best sets anymore either (lacking time to farm them meanwhile - I mainly use self-crafted sets now, it's absolutely sufficient for most content I'm interested in).

BlueRaven wrote: »

-Made wbs more difficult, with reduced rewards making them less farmable.

They might be a bit more difficult, but WBs were (originally) never meant for soloing, but for fighting them with other players - not neccessarily by grouping, but you can also wait at the site for others to come by or ask for help in the chat. Works very well (especially in weeks where WB are a weekly endeavor), so I don't perceive it as a big obstacle, let alone as "making this content unavailable for casuals".

BlueRaven wrote: »

-Turned the 3rd (4th?) quarter questing zone into an arena environment (IA).
-Placed housing plans and housing materials in IA.

Out of interest: Have you tried it? I don't like it much because it bores me, but I get a few arcs completed alone or with one of the companions. The marauders I encountered were also no problem.

BlueRaven wrote: »

[snip]

While I see a small shift away from easier and especially story content, there's still a bigger percentage of things that do not require grouping or the best builds: all story quests, side quests, delves, public dungeon, new antiquities, companions, new ToT stuff,...

BlueRaven wrote: »

These endeavors are just emblematic of that shift in philosophy.

It happened once now. For me, that's not enough to consider it a tendency.

[edited to remove quote]

Sluggy

Killing 15 players is beyond absolutely no one's ability. If everyone that said they can't win a fight in PvP literally just showed up on Thursday, closed their eyes, and held left click while randomly running around a keep that is under attack they'd all have the endevour within five minutes completely by accident alone. Or you can just cheese it and ask a friend to meet you in a quiet corner of an empty campaign somewhere out of the way.

BlueRaven

Syldras wrote: »

BlueRaven, I agree with you concerning some of the mentioned points, but in others I don't really see a big problem, to be honest. And I'm someone who plays alone most of the time and doesn't have the best sets anymore either (lacking time to farm them meanwhile - I mainly use self-crafted sets now, it's absolutely sufficient for most content I'm interested in).

BlueRaven wrote: »

-Made wbs more difficult, with reduced rewards making them less farmable.

They might be a bit more difficult, but WBs were (originally) never meant for soloing, but for fighting them with other players - not neccessarily by grouping, but you can also wait at the site for others to come by or ask for help in the chat. Works very well (especially in weeks where WB are a weekly endeavor), so I don't perceive it as a big obstacle, let alone as "making this content unavailable for casuals".

BlueRaven wrote: »

-Turned the 3rd (4th?) quarter questing zone into an arena environment (IA).
-Placed housing plans and housing materials in IA.

Out of interest: Have you tried it? I don't like it much because it bores me, but I get a few arcs completed alone or with one of the companions. The marauders I encountered were also no problem.

BlueRaven wrote: »

[snip]

While I see a small shift away from easier and especially story content, there's still a bigger percentage of things that do not require grouping or the best builds: all story quests, side quests, delves, public dungeon, new antiquities, companions, new ToT stuff,...

BlueRaven wrote: »

These endeavors are just emblematic of that shift in philosophy.

It happened once now. For me, that's not enough to consider it a tendency.

I am traveling so I am just going to answer them quickly.

Wbs - More difficulty with less rewards, means fewer people doing them, while requiring more of them, which further makes less people interested in doing them.

I have zero interest in IA although I am sure I can do well there. But this type of grinding is why I left WoW to play this game. I am not interested in fighting endless mobs in the same looking environment. I find “kill ten ghosts” annoying as an endeavor, so…

But I am really picking up on the complaints I hear from players in my guilds. And the reasons why it appears people are logging in less often. It’s hard to run housing contests when the participants feel resentful that they are being excluded from getting new plans.

[edited to remove quote]

Syldras

BlueRaven wrote: »

Wbs - More difficulty with less rewards, means fewer people doing them, while requiring more of them, which further makes less people interested in doing them.
I have zero interest in IA although I am sure I can do well there. But this type of grinding is why I left WoW to play this game. I am not interested in fighting endless mobs in the same looking environment. I find “kill ten ghosts” annoying as an endeavor, so…
But I am really picking up on the complaints I hear from players in my guilds. And the reasons why it appears people are logging in less often. It’s hard to run housing contests when the participants feel resentful that they are being excluded from getting new plans.

I understand this. I still wouldn't call it making content unavailable for casuals, though, it's just... more annoying for some. And like always, it's a question of personal interests, likes and dislikes. I know some really enjoy the Archive, for example. And I'm fine with that. Nothing ZOS does can cater to everyone, the interests are just too diverse.

My pet peeve is the reduction of story content, btw - and even more the decreased writing quality both in quest design and dialogues. Not even because it's casual content, though, but because lore and well-written narrations would interest me, as this was the main reason I even started to play ESO, originally coming from the singleplayer TES games. And yes - before anyone complains - , of course I know that PvPers have it even worse, and I fully support their wishes to get more content. But just as they are free to utter their wishes and to complain, so I am free to do the same about what bothers me. I find the regular discussions about "who has it worse" silly. I argue for what I'm interested in, I support others in their wishes, most of the time it's not even conflicting (and if so, searching for a compromise would be the reasonable solution).

Btw, I don't find the design decision to lock rewards behind completely unrelated activies well thought-out either. I've seen all kinds of complaints about that in the forum over the years, from people feeling "forced" into antiquities although they don't enjoy that because they want a certain mythic, to people complaining about relatively standard furniture only unlockable by dungeon completion. I think it would be better to keep activity and reward related somehow.

jaws343

Sluggy wrote: »

Killing 15 players is beyond absolutely no one's ability. If everyone that said they can't win a fight in PvP literally just showed up on Thursday, closed their eyes, and held left click while randomly running around a keep that is under attack they'd all have the endevour within five minutes completely by accident alone. Or you can just cheese it and ask a friend to meet you in a quiet corner of an empty campaign somewhere out of the way.

Walk to front door of keep being knocked down.

Lay down wall of elements when the door breaks.

Run to the complete opposite side of the keep.

Probably get 20+ kills counted just doing that if it is a real siege.

Reverb

There have been several weeks that none of the weekly endeavors were activities I care for. It wasn’t a hardship to decide not to do them and miss a week of seals.

It never occurred to me to create a forum post complaining that my personal preferences weren’t catered to. I guess I’ll know for next time.

Aurielle

Normal Craglorn trials are some of the easiest content in the game. You can complete them without any gear on.

Believe me “normal” players will be a-ok this week.

katanagirl1

CoronHR wrote: »

yeah i think one of the weekly endeavours should always offer a casual activity, so i'm with you on that

the kill 15 players one is pretty easy though. just join a group in cyro and wait for a keep siege. you'll get credit for your group's kills (i believe)

A good defense of a keep with counter siege can get you 15 player kills in about one minute. Pick up some meatbags and oils and you will be fine.

jad11mumbler

We've got some great Endeavors this week that incentivise people to try something new, while still being fairly easy and quick to earn.

Much more interesting than "refine 75 materials".

jad11mumbler

BlueRaven wrote: »

They just want to play by themselves and not bother anyone.

Until something pops up that isn't "casual" friendly, apparently?

These "casuals" focus more on endeavours than many vets do.

MidniteOwl1913

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

ZOS really needs to announce events earlier. This would likely go down smoother if players were more confident that MYM really, truly starts this Thursday.

Yes! Really would it be so hard to put out a simple statement something like, "MYM is starting later this week and to help players get in the mood two of this week's endeavors involve PVP. Enjoy!"

Melivar

I skip weeks all the time due to there not being activities I want to participate in. It's really only you who can decide if there not worth doing.

At the same time there have been weeks I planned to skip and ended up completing doing things with guildies, though i admit this week for most would be very much less likely for this to happen.

If you haven't tried the group finder yet this may be a good time to take a chance on some trials. Being perfectly honest the pug groups I join often are faster and have higher DPS that my guild groups.

In these cases, I am often on a sub optimal character while farming materials or skyshards/books. Only once has anyone ever commented about a lack of DPS or picking me up off the floor more times than should happen.

The normal Craglorn trials Atherian Archive (AA), Hel Ra Citadel (HRC) and Cloudrest (don't volunteer for portals) and Sunspire can be done fairly quickly and don't have a ton of punishing mechanics. Sanctum Ophidia (SO) also a Craglorn trial can be a bit more complicated. Any of the rest I would advise staying away from until you get experience in the ones listed.

Surak73

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

No option for normal players. Please always have SOMETHING that most of us can do, not unachievable goals!

Unachievable?... Come on: OK for trials and horrors, that's long at least, but I got the 15 players in less than 10 minutes just going with my healer in Cyro and firing with a ballista on sieging group from castle walls...

MidniteOwl1913

Surak73 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

No option for normal players. Please always have SOMETHING that most of us can do, not unachievable goals!

Unachievable?... Come on: OK for trials and horrors, that's long at least, but I got the 15 players in less than 10 minutes just going with my healer in Cyro and firing with a ballista on sieging group from castle walls...

My experience with this is I look at the map see a battle going on but by the time I get there it's over. It happens a few times and I decide the waste of time.

Syldras

Can anyone explain what exactly the problem is with people asking for a broad variety of options to choose from?

In the end also the PvPers would profit if there was a rule about having 1 weekly endeavor per activity category, because that would mean there would also 100% be a PvP one each week.

Araneae6537

PSA: Killing 15 players does NOT mean landing killing blows or besting them in single combat! You can join a zerg, fire siege from the relative safety of the keep — it is neither difficult nor time consuming and you may even have a bit of fun!

Also, normal Craglorn trials are VERY easy and you don’t even have to speak up in zone chat anymore but just join a group through the group finder. You can look up the basics before joining if it makes you feel more comfortable or just let the group know it’s your first time.

Mithgil

It's either an "impossible" Endeavor to complete for you, or it's "rather easy" to do. I'm not a hardcore PvP player, but I'm not shy to partake nor do I get upset with getting killed.

Between a couple of characters today I accomplished the "KIll 15 Players in Cyrodiil" endeavor and I had some fun doing it. None of my builds (if you can even call them that) are PvP builds. I didn't group with anyone. I just looked at the map when I was in-zone and made my way to the action (as well as completing a number of PvE dailies). Probably between the two characters (of differing alliances) I accomplished the 15 kills in under an hour.

I had fun, I died a lot. I had fun. I didn't sweat getting killed. I think getting killed by others can be a hang-up for some, and I get the argument that it can take some time, or by the time you get there... but it's a Weekly Endeavor. You have 7 days to complete it. Last week's I completed in about 20 seconds.

I think the arguments either for or against "easy to complete" are subjective. The reality is that I find most Weekly endeavors easy to do, and I can do them solo. I don't shy away from grouping with friends and guildmates, but I can quite often get them done rather easy.

If a player is dead-set against grouping for things like dungeons or trials, or even going into a PvP zone, then that's where they're at. Someone like me isn't going to convince them. The easiest of this week's three choices to complete with the least amount of time investment was killing 15 players in Cyrodiil. And my builds suck in PvP.

Carcamongus

Elsonso wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

This week:

- Kill 15 Players in Cyrodiil
- Defeat 7 Patrolling Horrors
- Complete 7 Trials


No option for normal players. Please always have SOMETHING that most of us can do, not unachievable goals!

Since this is obviously a PVP week, they could have replaced the last one with "Get killed by 15 different players in Cyrodiil" and that would have been something that everyone could participate in.

Hey, that's a great idea. I'd complete it in less than 5 minutes!

Mithgil

And just to echo what a number here have said already, to get a "kill" you just have to have landed some damage on an enemy player and you have to in the area when they die. I'll often hang around dead if there's a lively battle and I do get credit for kills when someone I damaged dies.

To me it's just not a big deal.

Araneae6537

Syldras wrote: »

Can anyone explain what exactly the problem is with people asking for a broad variety of options to choose from?

In the end also the PvPers would profit if there was a rule about having 1 weekly endeavor per activity category, because that would mean there would also 100% be a PvP one each week.

If ZOS decided to go that route, I wouldn’t be against it. This isn’t the first time a week has had a theme to the endeavors though and I don’t see that as a bad thing, even though of course I like some weeks better than others.

Requesting a change in endeavor options, saying what you do and don’t like, etc., is all well and good. It’s the whole “this is so unfair / unachievable / whatever” where it seems some want everything to be effortless or alternatively cater only to their particular specifications that is… grating.

But as to the proposed solution, what categories would be reasonable? PVP seems relatively straightforward, but clearly people are wanting an additional group besides PVE (which of course 4 trials would satisfy). Should it be one non-combat related? Group vs. solo PVE? But what counts as grouped? Obviously trials, but what about world bosses, public dungeons, delves?

(Edited for clarity, maybe, lol)

Syldras

Araneae6537 wrote: »

I can’t speak for everyone of course, but it’s the whole “this is so unfair / unachievable / whatever” that seems some want everything to be effortless or cater only to their particular specifications.

I won't argue with anyone about what they find unachievable or not, as that's a personal sentiment and they are the only ones who can make that statement about themselves.

I also don't see people wanting to get seals for nothing, in fact I have seen several postings saying they would have been okay with a worldboss or dolmen endeavor or something like that.

I don't see the last point, people wanting the endeavors to "cater only to their particular specifications", to be the case either. People have not demanded for all endeavours to be something for their individual playstyle, but for one out of the selection, at least.

Araneae6537 wrote: »

But what categories would be reasonable? PVP seems relatively straightforward, but clearly people are wanting an additional group besides PVE (which of course 4 trials would satisfy). Should it be one non-combat related? Group vs. solo PVE? But what counts as grouped? Obviously trials, but what about world bosses, public dungeons, delves?

I wrote it in another thread: Increase the number of weekly endeavors to five. And then include at least 1 PvP, 1 "endgame" PvE, 1 overland (dolmen, bosses, quests, public dungeons), maybe another one for crafting or housing.

kargen27

Normal Cloudrest you can get in a group and have all four done in less than an hour even if the group has mostly average players. Killing 15 players in Cyrodiil would probably be just as quick even for players in PvE gear and no experience in PvP. A ranged weapon with AoE and you are good to go. All you gotta do is get a hit on a player before they die for credit.

AcadianPaladin

Was an experienced player before endeavors even started. Have never missed completing a weekly endeavor but after a short laugh, only took me few seconds to decide to ignore this weekly endeavor offering.

I might be able to figure out some roundabout way to complete one of them but that is not the point. I play ESO to have fun and will ONLY do things that are fun. None of this week's offerings are fun. Simple.

This is the first weekly endeavor ever where I judge all three options to be not fun and choose to ignore them all. I'm awash in endeavor seals but not all players are. . . . I hope the game returns to including enough variety so most player can find a suitable option for their play objectives/style.