Why doesn't necro have..

OtarTheMad

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

brandsnipe wrote: »

Major sorcery/brutality or prophecy/savagery? Every other class has access to one or the other, 4 classes have access to both.. necro has neither.

@ZOS_Kevin make it make sense

I’ve personally stopped wasting skill slot on skills that give those major buffs. I get both buffs from the potions they sell with AP. Skill slots are too valuable.

So Is sustain in PvP. Using weapon or spell power pots heavily compromises Your sustain for one of the resources and currently in hybrydisation era mag and stam sustain and equally important on almost every setup. With current infestation of nightblades detection pots are also usefulls to have.

Fact that skill slots are too valuable is excatly the reason why necro is in trouble right now. When other classes have class sources of some of mentioned major buffs tied to abilities that have other strong features necro is forced to choose between compromising sustain and using weapon/spell pwoer pots or slotting non class abilities that are usually weaker than class versions and don't synergize with class kit that well. You don't see sorcs running with degen over crit surge or wardens running with degen over netch.

Exactly, I understand why people say the common Major buffs alone won't elevate Cro but what you say here is simply undeniable.

There is some possibility it will not be enough. There is some possibility it will be enough.

But it is an absolute certainty that Necro suffers from this in a way that no other class does.

Hence this thread popping up every patch!

And that’s the huge hang up because both arguments of just giving these Major buffs to necro, even if it’s the only change, can be valid.

I only really use spell power pots in vet dlc dungeons really but I can see that if I did that kind of content more, or even got into trials and stuff then I’d chug more of those. Simple fact is the game is “easy” and I don’t need spell power pots for much else.

One reason a lot of my saved bars have Degen (entropy) is because it’s a sticky dot and a lot of situations, I think, require those. Because of the sustain issues that necro has if I run into a boss that is a mobile boss then abilities like tether, boneyard, wall of elements and others screw me. I need something to actually stick to him so I get some constant damage. That’s why tri pots are more valuable to me because I need the regen to block, cast and dodge. Maybe this is also due to me usually running solo, even in normal dungeons, and in PvP.

But in a lot of others posts I’ve made I have pushed hard for Necro’s to get some sort of sticky dots because I realize using abilities like soul trap and entropy hold me back in a way even if they are needed in fights with mobile enemies.

It’s kind of crazy because on one hand maybe just getting the Major buffs should do something but on the other, for me and people who play like me, we just need something else in addition to that because Degen isn’t just about the Major buff, it’s about the sticky dot it has.

Urzigurumash

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

brandsnipe wrote: »

Major sorcery/brutality or prophecy/savagery? Every other class has access to one or the other, 4 classes have access to both.. necro has neither.

@ZOS_Kevin make it make sense

I’ve personally stopped wasting skill slot on skills that give those major buffs. I get both buffs from the potions they sell with AP. Skill slots are too valuable.

So Is sustain in PvP. Using weapon or spell power pots heavily compromises Your sustain for one of the resources and currently in hybrydisation era mag and stam sustain and equally important on almost every setup. With current infestation of nightblades detection pots are also usefulls to have.

Fact that skill slots are too valuable is excatly the reason why necro is in trouble right now. When other classes have class sources of some of mentioned major buffs tied to abilities that have other strong features necro is forced to choose between compromising sustain and using weapon/spell pwoer pots or slotting non class abilities that are usually weaker than class versions and don't synergize with class kit that well. You don't see sorcs running with degen over crit surge or wardens running with degen over netch.

Exactly, I understand why people say the common Major buffs alone won't elevate Cro but what you say here is simply undeniable.

There is some possibility it will not be enough. There is some possibility it will be enough.

But it is an absolute certainty that Necro suffers from this in a way that no other class does.

Hence this thread popping up every patch!

And that’s the huge hang up because both arguments of just giving these Major buffs to necro, even if it’s the only change, can be valid.

I only really use spell power pots in vet dlc dungeons really but I can see that if I did that kind of content more, or even got into trials and stuff then I’d chug more of those. Simple fact is the game is “easy” and I don’t need spell power pots for much else.

One reason a lot of my saved bars have Degen (entropy) is because it’s a sticky dot and a lot of situations, I think, require those. Because of the sustain issues that necro has if I run into a boss that is a mobile boss then abilities like tether, boneyard, wall of elements and others screw me. I need something to actually stick to him so I get some constant damage. That’s why tri pots are more valuable to me because I need the regen to block, cast and dodge. Maybe this is also due to me usually running solo, even in normal dungeons, and in PvP.

But in a lot of others posts I’ve made I have pushed hard for Necro’s to get some sort of sticky dots because I realize using abilities like soul trap and entropy hold me back in a way even if they are needed in fights with mobile enemies.

It’s kind of crazy because on one hand maybe just getting the Major buffs should do something but on the other, for me and people who play like me, we just need something else in addition to that because Degen isn’t just about the Major buff, it’s about the sticky dot it has.

Ah that makes tons of sense and why it seems it's mostly mCros saying the Major buffs won't get it. I mostly play BowCro so my target is loaded with dots anyhow. But Bow's best dot prohibits Bow's source of Major Brutality!

A bow issue for sure but more generally, this is a conflict between Mag and Stam in this game and how we see classes. Look at 2015 StamSorc and StamDK - the class spells are all buffs, damage is done WITH THE WEAPON WE HOLD.

So if this issue mostly comes down to the Mag Stam divide, the disagreement makes quite a bit of sense.

Urzigurumash

Galeriano wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

Nightblades get Major Resolve by casting a Shadow skill, I do not see why Necromancer cannot get a Major buff by casting a Grave Lord or Bone Tyrant skill.

Reusable parts passive granting major sorcery/brutality for X seconds on top of cost reduction wouid be actually pretty neat addition.

You'd have to slot Mender or your first blastbones wouldn't be cast with Brutality right? With my idea you could start the tether with Bone Armor's corpse at least.

But both these ideas have way less alpha strike potential than the other classes source of Brutality (even Plar but how absurd is it to see people casting Jabs out of combat).

Blastbones damage would be buffed since ability deals damage 3 seconds after cast and abilities dmg scales to the stats that user have when dealing damage not when casting the ability.

Is that so? Bones has its co-efficiency calculated when exactly?

Galeriano

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

Nightblades get Major Resolve by casting a Shadow skill, I do not see why Necromancer cannot get a Major buff by casting a Grave Lord or Bone Tyrant skill.

Reusable parts passive granting major sorcery/brutality for X seconds on top of cost reduction wouid be actually pretty neat addition.

You'd have to slot Mender or your first blastbones wouldn't be cast with Brutality right? With my idea you could start the tether with Bone Armor's corpse at least.

But both these ideas have way less alpha strike potential than the other classes source of Brutality (even Plar but how absurd is it to see people casting Jabs out of combat).

Blastbones damage would be buffed since ability deals damage 3 seconds after cast and abilities dmg scales to the stats that user have when dealing damage not when casting the ability.

Is that so? Bones has its co-efficiency calculated when exactly?

Every ability have its damage calculated the moment it hits. This is why for example DoTs from back bar hit harder after You swap to front bar. Would be kinda wierd to calculate it beforehand especially in PvP where enemy can have completly different dmg mitigation the moment ability hits than he had when ability was casted.

Urzigurumash

Galeriano wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

Nightblades get Major Resolve by casting a Shadow skill, I do not see why Necromancer cannot get a Major buff by casting a Grave Lord or Bone Tyrant skill.

Reusable parts passive granting major sorcery/brutality for X seconds on top of cost reduction wouid be actually pretty neat addition.

You'd have to slot Mender or your first blastbones wouldn't be cast with Brutality right? With my idea you could start the tether with Bone Armor's corpse at least.

But both these ideas have way less alpha strike potential than the other classes source of Brutality (even Plar but how absurd is it to see people casting Jabs out of combat).

Blastbones damage would be buffed since ability deals damage 3 seconds after cast and abilities dmg scales to the stats that user have when dealing damage not when casting the ability.

Is that so? Bones has its co-efficiency calculated when exactly?

Every ability have its damage calculated the moment it hits. This is why for example DoTs from back bar hit harder after You swap to front bar. Would be kinda wierd to calculate it beforehand especially in PvP where enemy can have completly different dmg mitigation the moment ability hits than he had when ability was casted.

I always thought for most skills Pen, Crit, and Dmg Done (and hence Armor, Impen, Dmg Taken) are calculated the moment it hits, but the Wpn/Spell Dmg + Stam/Mag co-efficient is calculated only when the spell is cast. So for instance on a 2h/2h build, most DoTs would be strongest if cast on a Nirnhoned Sword Backbar but with a Sharpened or Precise Maul or Battle-Axe frontbar. It doesn't matter what your frontbar Wpn Dmg is for a backbarred DoT, it doesn't apply to it whatsoever.

If that's right, this is another problem Necro (mostly sCro) has: one can't maximize Blastbones in this way and maximize Death Knell on the frontbar, where your execute typically is.

But Blastbones is pretty special, one of the few skills that doesn't proc sets and doesn't count towards your damage total in BGs, so if it were an exception to the rule that would check out. But I feel like I would've noticed by now..

The small takeaway from this - Death Knell REALLY deserves the new "either bar" Treatment!

Urzigurumash

Especially in light of Death Gleaning (and its recent buff).. we can frontbar Bitter Harvest, that works quite nicely for Death Gleaning.. but then we lose the 3% Mitigation on our backbar!

Besides either bar treatments this definitely agrees with those saying Scythe deserves execute scaling.

StarOfElyon

Urzigurumash wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

Nightblades get Major Resolve by casting a Shadow skill, I do not see why Necromancer cannot get a Major buff by casting a Grave Lord or Bone Tyrant skill.

Reusable parts passive granting major sorcery/brutality for X seconds on top of cost reduction wouid be actually pretty neat addition.

You'd have to slot Mender or your first blastbones wouldn't be cast with Brutality right? With my idea you could start the tether with Bone Armor's corpse at least.

But both these ideas have way less alpha strike potential than the other classes source of Brutality (even Plar but how absurd is it to see people casting Jabs out of combat).

You should be slotting Mender anyways for the recovery passive at the very least.

Intensive Mender is also the best source of corpses (until the new skill) - one every 4 seconds is massive for things like Deaden Pain/Potency.

Plus, even after the nerf, Intensive Mender is still a lot of healing - it's pretty much always the top healing done in your CMX after something like a BG.

Yeah maybe.. before its nerf not long ago I agree it was indispensable but on StamCro it can be a bit of a Mag drain on a class that's already close to invincible. Like is the (nearly superfluous) HPS worth the drop in RaT uptime, etc. You're right though that it's fantastic healing - let's be honest about that - Necro is still top tier in self-healing and mitigation.

But yes what you're saying about the Regen Passive is what I've been saying about the Pen passive, maybe we get 2/3 or even 3/4 uptime on these with Blastbones alone but it's probably impossible to get 100% uptime.

And the other thing, the big thing, about Mender or Siphon, and activation of many of the class passives:

Tough to find room when Degen, Ele Sus, Vigor, RaT, Camo Hunter are close to mandatory. Sorc finds similar problems here but at least they've got Brutality! Hence this thread.

But really, my main reason for not slotting Mender often is because it gets me killed by guards all the time in town. For all of its other problems, Necro's greatest flaw in PvP:

It is not allowed to duel in public. Who wants to play that as a PvP main?

My necro pretty much lives in Coldharbour. I can cast there all I want. I just need a house there that actually looks like some kind of house.