Why doesn't necro have..

Remiem

OtarTheMad wrote: »

It was just the only thing I saw in the top post and I've run into some players that think those buffs are the fix-all for Necros and it drives me nuts.

Understandable.
I also hate reading "Yeah, ZOS should add Major Prophecy/Savagery to Siphon, that would totally make it worth slotting in PvP bro", yeah... no.
Flames of Oblivion was already a skill worth slotting before the MASSIVE direct and indirect buffs it received, Siphon is not. I would love some good offensive uses out of corpses (main reason why Animate Blastbones is such a cool ult, you're actually using corpses to try to kill people with) but Siphon in its current form just isn't it.

OtarTheMad

brandsnipe wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

brandsnipe wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

brandsnipe wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

brandsnipe wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

JerBearESO wrote: »

I would rather see hard to obtain buffs.... I'm fine getting the "main" buffs from non necro skills, but with how much room for improvement necro has, they should add buffs. But maybe it would be better to have access to minor brut/sorc? Just for example.

I'd be on board with Minor Brut/Sorc for sure, not a buff others have so it's unique and I can team that with Major and boost my damage.

Other abilities would still need work but this would be a step.

As a class passive sure. But necro NEEDS either sav/proph or brut/sorc.. like i said, all classes have at least one. Why shouldn't a paid for class have it?

It does not change anything if this is the only change. It doesn't make Necro more playable in any situation. Slulls is still slow, Blighted now lacks burning and the multiplier, new BB takes away from tether usage and boosted boneyard damage via corpses, skeletal summons damage will still be meh and will at times still get lost and tethers will still not work great with LoS and corpse management. The turd is still a turd.

Now I am stuck with Necro but let's say I wasn't. Why would I choose it? Putting these buffs on the class doesn't mean players will find it more viable in endgame, or fights more winnable for Cyrodiil or BGs... all your doing is making the buff come from a different source not adding damage.

Now if ZOS wants to add Major B/S and the other AND also rework/change some Necro damage abilities so they are more fun and usable than I am game.

This is not the only thing i want changed, it was post targeting a specific problem. I have made several posts and that included many of the problems you listed..

It was just the only thing I saw in the top post and I've run into some players that think those buffs are the fix-all for Necros and it drives me nuts.

Necro needs a lot more than a 1 or 2 buffs. Theres been so many posts and comments about it, but will the devs hear it? Nah

Yeah which is truly sad because I feel they wouldn't have to do much if they wanted to do simple things to make the class fun and damage good. I've made a lot of suggestions on a lot of threads but I doubt the feedback will be read.

And its a paid for class! Mind boggling

ikr! And one that was just on sale in the crown store LOL. I wish I hadn't put so much time and effort into my Magcro, I'd go back to my Magsorc or Warden.

Turtle_Bot

OtarTheMad wrote: »

brandsnipe wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

JerBearESO wrote: »

I would rather see hard to obtain buffs.... I'm fine getting the "main" buffs from non necro skills, but with how much room for improvement necro has, they should add buffs. But maybe it would be better to have access to minor brut/sorc? Just for example.

I'd be on board with Minor Brut/Sorc for sure, not a buff others have so it's unique and I can team that with Major and boost my damage.

Other abilities would still need work but this would be a step.

As a class passive sure. But necro NEEDS either sav/proph or brut/sorc.. like i said, all classes have at least one. Why shouldn't a paid for class have it?

It does not change anything if this is the only change. It doesn't make Necro more playable in any situation. Slulls is still slow, Blighted now lacks burning and the multiplier, new BB takes away from tether usage and boosted boneyard damage via corpses, skeletal summons damage will still be meh and will at times still get lost and tethers will still not work great with LoS and corpse management. The turd is still a turd.

Now I am stuck with Necro but let's say I wasn't. Why would I choose it? Putting these buffs on the class doesn't mean players will find it more viable in endgame, or fights more winnable for Cyrodiil or BGs... all your doing is making the buff come from a different source not adding damage.

Now if ZOS wants to add Major B/S and the other AND also rework/change some Necro damage abilities so they are more fun and usable than I am game.

The thing is, you gotta start somewhere.

Sorc didn't just get the changes currently proposed for it overnight.

It started in U35/36 where there were a lot of forum posts and videos about the class being completely unplayable, especially in PvP where you played the class and not just a generic heavy attack build.

Then, in U37, there were a few small changes that were clearly not enough, but it was a start:
- increased cap size on wards + optional scaling off max health
- atro synergy buffs the whole group instead of only half the group (well 4 DDs + the tank(s))
- scamp guarantees charged (concussed) status
- addition of minor berserk to dark conversion and minor berserk + minor force to dark deal.

Then, a few patches later in U39, sorc got the either bar treatment for bound armor/morphs, which was nice, but still didn't do enough.

now, another few patches later in U41 its finally getting the full rework it needed to its defensive kit with:
- 1 morph of encase is a heal that's not tied to pets/cast time
- other morph of encase is now guaranteed to deal its damage
- wards now have some utility to using them that isn't just a temporary health buffer
- mines now has a group utility morph option
- expert summoner passive now providing max stats for no-pet sorc instead of just health for pet/BA sorc
- and lastly abilities like lightning splash are finally being looked at.

Assuming the proposed changes this patch go through, the only things left remaining for sorcerer are less major reworks and more numbers/secondary effects tweaks. Things such as:
- prophecy/savagery on BA instead of max stats
- buffing lightning splash DoT to be on par with scamp for PvE DPS via high base concussed proc chance each tick
- some tidying up of the class passives
- and likely a reduction to preys bonus damage taken by pets since that band-aid fix will no longer be required for PvE sorc to be viable.

It's taken well over a full year to get sorcerer to where it potentially could be next patch. Still not complete, but it's much better than what it was.

If the start of the cycle of necro buffs means small, simple things are changed like:
- adding sorcery/brutality to archer/mage
- prophecy/savagery to mender
- a slight increase to scythes damage to account for the now removed mangle debuff

then at least its something to start from.

Next patch it could be:
- skulls projectile speed increase and guaranteed respective status effect on the third cast (both status effects are DoTs).
- archer/mage will count as actual DoTs that are buffed by necro passives
- tether will guarantee its DoT in an AoE around the necro for the full duration, even if the tether itself breaks from LoS/distance.

Then after that could be the big rework, something like:
- corpses count as stacks on the necro as well as, instead of only as those that linger on the ground (more like a mix of crux and corpses) to get around fast revives, bodies fading, etc.
- the animate blast bones morph of revive ulti no longer revives allies, but instead has its cost halved and it summons multiple blast bones that launch themselves at a target enemy.
- A rework to boneyard, breach on base ability, 1 morph keeps self synergy other morph does something new
- Grave grasp/morphs now work like talons, empowering grasp now passively affects pets while on either bar instead of having to hit them with the skill, ghostly embrace now also has a DoT on all enemies hit by it (even if they are immune to the CC effects).

These are all just hypothetical/ideas for changes based on stuff others have mentioned, but you can see what I am getting at here.

Yes necro needs a lot of help (and I mean a veritable *** ton of help), but just like with sorcerer, we cannot expect them to do the big things overnight (or even in 1 or 2 patches really) as much as we would like them to because that's just not how they work (they love to bake).

So we gotta work with that, start with small pain points (like brutality/sorcery) and get them fixed, it still clearly won't lift the class, but it's a start and it gets them looking at, playing and testing necro, so then it's onto the next pain point (this time a little bigger), skulls projectile speed/clunky cast animation and archer/mage being their weird pet/dot hybrid, then when that's still clearly not enough the bigger changes/reworks will then be looked into.

It's a process and it's frustrating, I get that, having just gone/going through it with (no-pet) sorcerer, but it's unfortunately the process we have to deal with if we want to see our favourite classes that fall behind, brought back up into the modern game.

OtarTheMad

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

brandsnipe wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

JerBearESO wrote: »

I would rather see hard to obtain buffs.... I'm fine getting the "main" buffs from non necro skills, but with how much room for improvement necro has, they should add buffs. But maybe it would be better to have access to minor brut/sorc? Just for example.

I'd be on board with Minor Brut/Sorc for sure, not a buff others have so it's unique and I can team that with Major and boost my damage.

Other abilities would still need work but this would be a step.

As a class passive sure. But necro NEEDS either sav/proph or brut/sorc.. like i said, all classes have at least one. Why shouldn't a paid for class have it?

It does not change anything if this is the only change. It doesn't make Necro more playable in any situation. Slulls is still slow, Blighted now lacks burning and the multiplier, new BB takes away from tether usage and boosted boneyard damage via corpses, skeletal summons damage will still be meh and will at times still get lost and tethers will still not work great with LoS and corpse management. The turd is still a turd.

Now I am stuck with Necro but let's say I wasn't. Why would I choose it? Putting these buffs on the class doesn't mean players will find it more viable in endgame, or fights more winnable for Cyrodiil or BGs... all your doing is making the buff come from a different source not adding damage.

Now if ZOS wants to add Major B/S and the other AND also rework/change some Necro damage abilities so they are more fun and usable than I am game.

The thing is, you gotta start somewhere.

Sorc didn't just get the changes currently proposed for it overnight.

It started in U35/36 where there were a lot of forum posts and videos about the class being completely unplayable, especially in PvP where you played the class and not just a generic heavy attack build.

Then, in U37, there were a few small changes that were clearly not enough, but it was a start:
- increased cap size on wards + optional scaling off max health
- atro synergy buffs the whole group instead of only half the group (well 4 DDs + the tank(s))
- scamp guarantees charged (concussed) status
- addition of minor berserk to dark conversion and minor berserk + minor force to dark deal.

Then, a few patches later in U39, sorc got the either bar treatment for bound armor/morphs, which was nice, but still didn't do enough.

now, another few patches later in U41 its finally getting the full rework it needed to its defensive kit with:
- 1 morph of encase is a heal that's not tied to pets/cast time
- other morph of encase is now guaranteed to deal its damage
- wards now have some utility to using them that isn't just a temporary health buffer
- mines now has a group utility morph option
- expert summoner passive now providing max stats for no-pet sorc instead of just health for pet/BA sorc
- and lastly abilities like lightning splash are finally being looked at.

Assuming the proposed changes this patch go through, the only things left remaining for sorcerer are less major reworks and more numbers/secondary effects tweaks. Things such as:
- prophecy/savagery on BA instead of max stats
- buffing lightning splash DoT to be on par with scamp for PvE DPS via high base concussed proc chance each tick
- some tidying up of the class passives
- and likely a reduction to preys bonus damage taken by pets since that band-aid fix will no longer be required for PvE sorc to be viable.

It's taken well over a full year to get sorcerer to where it potentially could be next patch. Still not complete, but it's much better than what it was.

If the start of the cycle of necro buffs means small, simple things are changed like:
- adding sorcery/brutality to archer/mage
- prophecy/savagery to mender
- a slight increase to scythes damage to account for the now removed mangle debuff

then at least its something to start from.

Next patch it could be:
- skulls projectile speed increase and guaranteed respective status effect on the third cast (both status effects are DoTs).
- archer/mage will count as actual DoTs that are buffed by necro passives
- tether will guarantee its DoT in an AoE around the necro for the full duration, even if the tether itself breaks from LoS/distance.

Then after that could be the big rework, something like:
- corpses count as stacks on the necro as well as, instead of only as those that linger on the ground (more like a mix of crux and corpses) to get around fast revives, bodies fading, etc.
- the animate blast bones morph of revive ulti no longer revives allies, but instead has its cost halved and it summons multiple blast bones that launch themselves at a target enemy.
- A rework to boneyard, breach on base ability, 1 morph keeps self synergy other morph does something new
- Grave grasp/morphs now work like talons, empowering grasp now passively affects pets while on either bar instead of having to hit them with the skill, ghostly embrace now also has a DoT on all enemies hit by it (even if they are immune to the CC effects).

These are all just hypothetical/ideas for changes based on stuff others have mentioned, but you can see what I am getting at here.

Yes necro needs a lot of help (and I mean a veritable *** ton of help), but just like with sorcerer, we cannot expect them to do the big things overnight (or even in 1 or 2 patches really) as much as we would like them to because that's just not how they work (they love to bake).

So we gotta work with that, start with small pain points (like brutality/sorcery) and get them fixed, it still clearly won't lift the class, but it's a start and it gets them looking at, playing and testing necro, so then it's onto the next pain point (this time a little bigger), skulls projectile speed/clunky cast animation and archer/mage being their weird pet/dot hybrid, then when that's still clearly not enough the bigger changes/reworks will then be looked into.

It's a process and it's frustrating, I get that, having just gone/going through it with (no-pet) sorcerer, but it's unfortunately the process we have to deal with if we want to see our favourite classes that fall behind, brought back up into the modern game.

I've been waiting for Necro changes since 2020 and they've just been nerfed constantly. I can't trust ZOS to start the process. They did it with all the other classes, made them good over a few patches but Necro has had the same issues, that a lot of us have been telling them about for 3 or 4 years now and the feedback is just fed to the dogs.

It was my mistake for thinking Necro would be treated like the other classes, when Warden came out Magden had some real holes but when Necro came out ZOS worked on it and Magden was better. I love the Necromancer playstyle, one of many I enjoy, and stuck with it thinking they'd work on it and it would take a year or two in order to fix some huge holes. Nope... now it's 2024 and not only do we have the same holes/issues we had back in 2020 but ZOS is adding more.

All the things you said about next patch could be this or that, I've been saying for years. 2020 was Greymoor year... that feels like ages ago. We've been waiting for Necro changes/buffs since before COVID. That's nuts.

MashmalloMan

JerBearESO wrote: »

I would rather see hard to obtain buffs.... I'm fine getting the "main" buffs from non necro skills, but with how much room for improvement necro has, they should add buffs. But maybe it would be better to have access to minor brut/sorc? Just for example.

This won't happen and shouldn't happen, at least in the way you suggested it.. Right now, you need a Templar/DK or poisons to obtain these. They're suppose to be group sourced from your team mates, sadly over time, this has been chipped away via hybridization making group comps very restrictive instead of inclusive. I hope when they finally tackle this issue, they'll improve upon it instead of abandoning it.

If all 7 classes brought something unique to the table, no matter the role, there wouldn't be as much complaints today about pve performance of the classes. Unfortunately it's basically just who can do the most single target dps, while having the most aoe dps, using the most simple rotation.

Of the 7 classes, 6 of them have an aoe group minor buff. Warden's Toughness, Arcanist's Evasion, NB's Savagery, Sorc's Prophecy, Templar's Sorcery, and DK's Brutality. Of those 6, 2 are kind of redundant because of hybridization.

Notably, Necromancer doesn't have a group minor buff, but they were given Major Vulnerability which at launch, was very rare and powerful at 30%. Stacking 3-6 Necro's was the norm to get as high uptime as possible.

So imo, let Necro's keep major vulnerability on their ult, but they should be thrown an easy to proc, 20s group buff like the other 6 classes so they never become redundant from a potential current or future set.

Imo:

1. Warden Minor Toughness
2. Arcanist Minor Evasion
3. DK Minor Brutality/Sorcery (once weapon/spell stats are combined)
4. Sorc Minor Prophecy/Savagery (once weapon/spell stats are combined)
5. NB Minor Force (remove it from common skills like Trap which are more of a requirement than something fun to slot)
6. Templar Minor Max Resources (new - like a mini warhorn)
7. Necro Minor Penetration (new - like minor breach, but buff instead of debuff)

Urzigurumash

Remiem wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

It was just the only thing I saw in the top post and I've run into some players that think those buffs are the fix-all for Necros and it drives me nuts.

Understandable.
I also hate reading "Yeah, ZOS should add Major Prophecy/Savagery to Siphon, that would totally make it worth slotting in PvP bro", yeah... no.
Flames of Oblivion was already a skill worth slotting before the MASSIVE direct and indirect buffs it received, Siphon is not. I would love some good offensive uses out of corpses (main reason why Animate Blastbones is such a cool ult, you're actually using corpses to try to kill people with) but Siphon in its current form just isn't it.

Sure I always slotted FoO even when it was fashionable to frontbar Camo Hunter and backbar Cauterize - as it was for years.

You drink the pots or use Camo / Magelight + Rally / Degen? I'm always trying to make V Arrow work, once or twice I tried Hidden Blade. But I always go back to slotting multiple Mage or Fighters guild skills or drinking the pots.

Necro being the MOST reliant on Mage and Fighters Guild is monstrously anti-thematic, don't you think? Siphon is terribly weak yes but it's the "passive damage" skill most like Camo Hunter so of course that's a popular idea.

Galeriano

OtarTheMad wrote: »

brandsnipe wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Why are people obsessed with these buffs like they are Taylor Swift?

We have those buffs now just on other things, putting these buffs on crappy Necro abilities will not get me, or some I have talked to, to slot those class skills. The class skills need adjusting and then maybe those buffs would actually do something.

Because they are must haves buffs in the game.

And we have them, just from other non class areas.

ZOS has shown they do not give a flying monkey poo about necro and they only work on like 1 or 2 things with them during an update so I’d rather have them focus on making offensive skills worth slotting vs a buff I can get from just about any weapon line, or potions or guild skill line.

Non class abilities are usually mediocre when compared to class sources. And needing 3 non class abilities is already putting heavy limitation on build options and basically causes necro to have lower base effectiveness in multiple areas.

Galeriano

Remiem wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

It was just the only thing I saw in the top post and I've run into some players that think those buffs are the fix-all for Necros and it drives me nuts.

Understandable.
I also hate reading "Yeah, ZOS should add Major Prophecy/Savagery to Siphon, that would totally make it worth slotting in PvP bro", yeah... no.
Flames of Oblivion was already a skill worth slotting before the MASSIVE direct and indirect buffs it received, Siphon is not. I would love some good offensive uses out of corpses (main reason why Animate Blastbones is such a cool ult, you're actually using corpses to try to kill people with) but Siphon in its current form just isn't it.

Flames of oblivion actually needed MASSIVE amount of buffs for PvP DKs to even start considering slotting it. It took like 5-6 years of buffs for it be be considered good and initially cauterize was more popular morph. And quite frankly that ability had crit buff since day 1.

Urzigurumash

Galeriano wrote: »

Remiem wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

It was just the only thing I saw in the top post and I've run into some players that think those buffs are the fix-all for Necros and it drives me nuts.

Understandable.
I also hate reading "Yeah, ZOS should add Major Prophecy/Savagery to Siphon, that would totally make it worth slotting in PvP bro", yeah... no.
Flames of Oblivion was already a skill worth slotting before the MASSIVE direct and indirect buffs it received, Siphon is not. I would love some good offensive uses out of corpses (main reason why Animate Blastbones is such a cool ult, you're actually using corpses to try to kill people with) but Siphon in its current form just isn't it.

Flames of oblivion actually needed MASSIVE amount of buffs for PvP DKs to even start considering slotting it. It took like 5-6 years of buffs for it be be considered good and initially cauterize was more popular morph. And quite frankly that ability had crit buff since day 1.

Sure and it was yours truly that most loudly advocated on here for Cauterize to get Savagery. Probably a coincidence but it turned out to not be very relevant to the meta DK during its long recent heyday but, at their current power levels anybody would slot Siphon over Archer, so if none of the other Gravelord skills have room in their power budgets for some Major buffs, put em on Siphon.

I honestly don't think it would be imbalanced for Siphon to give Major Brutality, Major Savagery, and Minor Berserk all at once but only while the Siphon is active. Yes it's difficult to use but one would still be free to play a self-loathing Necro slotting skills from Guilds dedicated to the eradication of Necromancy, or to equip the class set to make it a bit easier to use.

Also you know Shocking Siphon presumably has its Status Effect rate as AoE DoT, which is weak but that's another 5% Damage Taken that you don't get from Camo or Magelight in addition to the 3% passive Damage Done. If you still prefer the variable uptime on Berserk and the 3% WD bonus on Camo, go ahead while the rest of us enjoy our glamorous but clunky Siphon. Switch it to the Single Target DoT status rate maybe.

FoO was weak? Well it was certainly much too strong for quite some time wasn't it - mostly on account of Seething Fury but anyhow - Necro's got to maintain some limitation, some clunkiness to get back to where it was supposed to be - strong but tricky. Likewise for DK - strong but SLOW. That's an old idea though, DK is a firemage buzzsaw of a class, The Tank Class is now Cro.

brandsnipe

I miss the old magDK paired with skoria

necro_the_crafter

Shocking siphon doubles in damage if used with flat damage modifier like drugrkins grip set, having a flat modifiers in class kit could be a necro's uniqe approach to the game.

But comon guys, remember first iteration of necros class set? slapping two widely avalibe buffs - minor prot and minor resolve, also one that is in necros kit already, and fit sets requierments to proc... good thing thay changed that to something uniqe, but looking at bb change and how the class set used to work on start of previous pts, its clear that they dont want to think about changing the class. They dont want to put any effort into necro, I think because they clearely have an in game statistics and its clear that necros not as popular as other classes... and i wonder why its isnt...

Also this [snip] change is made with oaken pve setup in mind, because you couldnt get blastbones casts between lightning heavy attack's efficiently, thats i think why they changed them. adding unique dot and skiltree buff doesnt conflict with buffs provided by oaken ring, and you dont have to cast it as often, so you can fit it in HA rotation... but even so now you have another problem, you cant play range,cuz you have be aware of your position, boneyard 30% bonus on corpse consumption apllies only if corpse in aoe, and as yourself as corpse, you have to cast it basicly on your feet. And you also loose damage on thether if you ranged so... idk...

Why necro dont have dev who would think about class as a class, and not like its unwanted child from first marriedge?

[edited for minor bashing]

necro_the_crafter

Animate blastbones could be remade in smothing useful, for example:

Undead
Cost - 500 ulti

Use to apply self buff, increasing your health and resistances by 5000 permanently until death, have an option to revive after being killed on place even in combat, conusming the buff,but disable all ulti gen. Reviving on a wayshrine or by another player doesnot consume the buff.

also would like to see some skill line remade to exclusevly health cost skills, or at least health cost morphs, would be a uniqe class gimmick for sure.

and changes to a corpse mechanic, that will allow for corpse storage and manual placement via some class skills, like necrotic potency could store corpses and boneyard place them for example.

brandsnipe

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Shocking siphon doubles in damage if used with flat damage modifier like drugrkins grip set, having a flat modifiers in class kit could be a necro's uniqe approach to the game.

But comon guys, remember first iteration of necros class set? slapping two widely avalibe buffs - minor prot and minor resolve, also one that is in necros kit already, and fit sets requierments to proc... good thing thay changed that to something uniqe, but looking at bb change and how the class set used to work on start of previous pts, its clear that they dont want to think about changing the class. They dont want to put any effort into necro, I think because they clearely have an in game statistics and its clear that necros not as popular as other classes... and i wonder why its isnt...

Also this [snip] change is made with oaken pve setup in mind, because you couldnt get blastbones casts between lightning heavy attack's efficiently, thats i think why they changed them. adding unique dot and skiltree buff doesnt conflict with buffs provided by oaken ring, and you dont have to cast it as often, so you can fit it in HA rotation... but even so now you have another problem, you cant play range,cuz you have be aware of your position, boneyard 30% bonus on corpse consumption apllies only if corpse in aoe, and as yourself as corpse, you have to cast it basicly on your feet. And you also loose damage on thether if you ranged so... idk...

Why necro dont have dev who would think about class as a class, and not like its unwanted child from first marriedge?

[edited for minor bashing]

Yeah i've been thinking of sets to run with the BB change. Deadly strike + flame staff + Necros boost in kit, puts DoTs at a 57% increase. But then again, you could run a better DoT build on plar or DK with a 30% lower DoT damage increase. Honestly i think they are trying to force this class into a playstyle its not meant to, nor has the toolkit to play. There are tons and tons of good ideas on here to improve necro, if the devs would just read them for a day, this class would be alright.

kyatos_binarini

I think necromancers definitely deserve to have "slotted on any bar" condition for their slottable passives (-3% damage taken, +3% damage done, +3% healing done).

KlauthWarthog

Nightblades get Major Resolve by casting a Shadow skill, I do not see why Necromancer cannot get a Major buff by casting a Grave Lord or Bone Tyrant skill.

Galeriano

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

Nightblades get Major Resolve by casting a Shadow skill, I do not see why Necromancer cannot get a Major buff by casting a Grave Lord or Bone Tyrant skill.

Reusable parts passive granting major sorcery/brutality for X seconds on top of cost reduction wouid be actually pretty neat addition.

CameraBeardThePirate

Galeriano wrote: »

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

Nightblades get Major Resolve by casting a Shadow skill, I do not see why Necromancer cannot get a Major buff by casting a Grave Lord or Bone Tyrant skill.

Reusable parts passive granting major sorcery/brutality for X seconds on top of cost reduction wouid be actually pretty neat addition.

They'd have to fix the passive first. The passive straight up doesn't activate sometimes. Works more often than not, but not as often as it says it does.

Skoomah

brandsnipe wrote: »

Major sorcery/brutality or prophecy/savagery? Every other class has access to one or the other, 4 classes have access to both.. necro has neither.

@ZOS_Kevin make it make sense

I’ve personally stopped wasting skill slot on skills that give those major buffs. I get both buffs from the potions they sell with AP. Skill slots are too valuable.

Gray_howling_parrot

The combat team plays nightblade and dragonknight. Thats it :P

Urzigurumash

Galeriano wrote: »

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

Nightblades get Major Resolve by casting a Shadow skill, I do not see why Necromancer cannot get a Major buff by casting a Grave Lord or Bone Tyrant skill.

Reusable parts passive granting major sorcery/brutality for X seconds on top of cost reduction wouid be actually pretty neat addition.

You'd have to slot Mender or your first blastbones wouldn't be cast with Brutality right? With my idea you could start the tether with Bone Armor's corpse at least.

But both these ideas have way less alpha strike potential than the other classes source of Brutality (even Plar but how absurd is it to see people casting Jabs out of combat).

Urzigurumash

Skoomah wrote: »

brandsnipe wrote: »

Major sorcery/brutality or prophecy/savagery? Every other class has access to one or the other, 4 classes have access to both.. necro has neither.

@ZOS_Kevin make it make sense

I’ve personally stopped wasting skill slot on skills that give those major buffs. I get both buffs from the potions they sell with AP. Skill slots are too valuable.

Problem there in BGs it's like a net loss in AP, or close to it, and also in BGs if you die after having recently drank your potion you can't get the buffs until potion cooldown expires, which is bothersome when the enemy is right outside of your spawn.

Perhaps not the world's biggest issue, I've done well with Damage Pots in BGs, but still a great reason to not play Cro in BGs.

brandsnipe

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

brandsnipe wrote: »

Major sorcery/brutality or prophecy/savagery? Every other class has access to one or the other, 4 classes have access to both.. necro has neither.

@ZOS_Kevin make it make sense

I’ve personally stopped wasting skill slot on skills that give those major buffs. I get both buffs from the potions they sell with AP. Skill slots are too valuable.

Problem there in BGs it's like a net loss in AP, or close to it, and also in BGs if you die after having recently drank your potion you can't get the buffs until potion cooldown expires, which is bothersome when the enemy is right outside of your spawn.

Perhaps not the world's biggest issue, I've done well with Damage Pots in BGs, but still a great reason to not play Cro in BGs.

Exactly. And my magplar at least offers minor sorc, major prophecy, and jesus beam. Sometimes i even go without major sorc on templar and still burst down even tankier opponents. What does my magcro offer? Major vuln on a telegraphed and easily dodged ultimate? Non sticky DoTs?

Urzigurumash

brandsnipe wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

brandsnipe wrote: »

Major sorcery/brutality or prophecy/savagery? Every other class has access to one or the other, 4 classes have access to both.. necro has neither.

@ZOS_Kevin make it make sense

I’ve personally stopped wasting skill slot on skills that give those major buffs. I get both buffs from the potions they sell with AP. Skill slots are too valuable.

Problem there in BGs it's like a net loss in AP, or close to it, and also in BGs if you die after having recently drank your potion you can't get the buffs until potion cooldown expires, which is bothersome when the enemy is right outside of your spawn.

Perhaps not the world's biggest issue, I've done well with Damage Pots in BGs, but still a great reason to not play Cro in BGs.

Exactly. And my magplar at least offers minor sorc, major prophecy, and jesus beam. Sometimes i even go without major sorc on templar and still burst down even tankier opponents. What does my magcro offer? Major vuln on a telegraphed and easily dodged ultimate? Non sticky DoTs?

Resistant Flesh is maybe a bit stronger than Honor the Dead? Put next to each other for a normal PvP build I'm not sure what else mCro offers over mPlar.

Templar is by far the best class to compare Necro to obviously, if we assume the following:

DK = Warden
Templar = Necro
Sorc = Arcanist
NB = unreleased class

brandsnipe

Urzigurumash wrote: »

brandsnipe wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

brandsnipe wrote: »

Major sorcery/brutality or prophecy/savagery? Every other class has access to one or the other, 4 classes have access to both.. necro has neither.

@ZOS_Kevin make it make sense

I’ve personally stopped wasting skill slot on skills that give those major buffs. I get both buffs from the potions they sell with AP. Skill slots are too valuable.

Problem there in BGs it's like a net loss in AP, or close to it, and also in BGs if you die after having recently drank your potion you can't get the buffs until potion cooldown expires, which is bothersome when the enemy is right outside of your spawn.

Perhaps not the world's biggest issue, I've done well with Damage Pots in BGs, but still a great reason to not play Cro in BGs.

Exactly. And my magplar at least offers minor sorc, major prophecy, and jesus beam. Sometimes i even go without major sorc on templar and still burst down even tankier opponents. What does my magcro offer? Major vuln on a telegraphed and easily dodged ultimate? Non sticky DoTs?

Resistant Flesh is maybe a bit stronger than Honor the Dead? Put next to each other for a normal PvP build I'm not sure what else mCro offers over mPlar.

Templar is by far the best class to compare Necro to obviously, if we assume the following:

DK = Warden
Templar = Necro
Sorc = Arcanist
NB = unreleased class

Just wish resist flesh didn't apply minor defile but i think curative curse equals it out, cool i guess.. As long as my magplar has jeus beam, its one my favorite PvP classss.

Galeriano

Skoomah wrote: »

brandsnipe wrote: »

Major sorcery/brutality or prophecy/savagery? Every other class has access to one or the other, 4 classes have access to both.. necro has neither.

@ZOS_Kevin make it make sense

I’ve personally stopped wasting skill slot on skills that give those major buffs. I get both buffs from the potions they sell with AP. Skill slots are too valuable.

So is the sustain in PvP. Using weapon or spell power pots heavily compromises Your sustain for one of the resources and currently in hybrydisation era mag and stam sustain are equally important on almost every setup. With current infestation of nightblades detection pots are also usefulls to have.

Fact that skill slots are too valuable is excatly the reason why necro is in trouble right now. When other classes have class sources of some of mentioned major buffs tied to abilities that have other strong features necro is forced to choose between compromising sustain and using weapon/spell power pots or slotting non class abilities that are usually weaker than class versions and don't synergize with class kit that well. You don't see sorcs running with degen over crit surge or wardens running with degen over netch.

CameraBeardThePirate

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

Nightblades get Major Resolve by casting a Shadow skill, I do not see why Necromancer cannot get a Major buff by casting a Grave Lord or Bone Tyrant skill.

Reusable parts passive granting major sorcery/brutality for X seconds on top of cost reduction wouid be actually pretty neat addition.

You'd have to slot Mender or your first blastbones wouldn't be cast with Brutality right? With my idea you could start the tether with Bone Armor's corpse at least.

But both these ideas have way less alpha strike potential than the other classes source of Brutality (even Plar but how absurd is it to see people casting Jabs out of combat).

You should be slotting Mender anyways for the recovery passive at the very least.

Intensive Mender is also the best source of corpses (until the new skill) - one every 4 seconds is massive for things like Deaden Pain/Potency.

Plus, even after the nerf, Intensive Mender is still a lot of healing - it's pretty much always the top healing done in your CMX after something like a BG.

Urzigurumash

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

Nightblades get Major Resolve by casting a Shadow skill, I do not see why Necromancer cannot get a Major buff by casting a Grave Lord or Bone Tyrant skill.

Reusable parts passive granting major sorcery/brutality for X seconds on top of cost reduction wouid be actually pretty neat addition.

You'd have to slot Mender or your first blastbones wouldn't be cast with Brutality right? With my idea you could start the tether with Bone Armor's corpse at least.

But both these ideas have way less alpha strike potential than the other classes source of Brutality (even Plar but how absurd is it to see people casting Jabs out of combat).

You should be slotting Mender anyways for the recovery passive at the very least.

Intensive Mender is also the best source of corpses (until the new skill) - one every 4 seconds is massive for things like Deaden Pain/Potency.

Plus, even after the nerf, Intensive Mender is still a lot of healing - it's pretty much always the top healing done in your CMX after something like a BG.

Yeah maybe.. before its nerf not long ago I agree it was indispensable but on StamCro it can be a bit of a Mag drain on a class that's already close to invincible. Like is the (nearly superfluous) HPS worth the drop in RaT uptime, etc. You're right though that it's fantastic healing - let's be honest about that - Necro is still top tier in self-healing and mitigation.

But yes what you're saying about the Regen Passive is what I've been saying about the Pen passive, maybe we get 2/3 or even 3/4 uptime on these with Blastbones alone but it's probably impossible to get 100% uptime.

And the other thing, the big thing, about Mender or Siphon, and activation of many of the class passives:

Tough to find room when Degen, Ele Sus, Vigor, RaT, Camo Hunter are close to mandatory. Sorc finds similar problems here but at least they've got Brutality! Hence this thread.

But really, my main reason for not slotting Mender often is because it gets me killed by guards all the time in town. For all of its other problems, Necro's greatest flaw in PvP:

It is not allowed to duel in public. Who wants to play that as a PvP main?

Urzigurumash

Galeriano wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

brandsnipe wrote: »

Major sorcery/brutality or prophecy/savagery? Every other class has access to one or the other, 4 classes have access to both.. necro has neither.

@ZOS_Kevin make it make sense

I’ve personally stopped wasting skill slot on skills that give those major buffs. I get both buffs from the potions they sell with AP. Skill slots are too valuable.

So Is sustain in PvP. Using weapon or spell power pots heavily compromises Your sustain for one of the resources and currently in hybrydisation era mag and stam sustain and equally important on almost every setup. With current infestation of nightblades detection pots are also usefulls to have.

Fact that skill slots are too valuable is excatly the reason why necro is in trouble right now. When other classes have class sources of some of mentioned major buffs tied to abilities that have other strong features necro is forced to choose between compromising sustain and using weapon/spell pwoer pots or slotting non class abilities that are usually weaker than class versions and don't synergize with class kit that well. You don't see sorcs running with degen over crit surge or wardens running with degen over netch.

Exactly, I understand why people say the common Major buffs alone won't elevate Cro but what you say here is simply undeniable.

There is some possibility it will not be enough. There is some possibility it will be enough.

But it is an absolute certainty that Necro suffers from this in a way that no other class does.

Hence this thread popping up every patch!

Skoomah

Necro just plays too slow and doesn’t do anything special vs other classes. The root cause of Necro not performing well in recent times is that other classes can dish out damage more often and at a faster pace than Necro. And in terms of defense, it’s still strong, just not overpowered like before with crazy ghost power. Taking that into consideration, it comes down to a playstyle choice and general lack of competitiveness in terms of comparative power levels. Necro no longer makes the strongest bomber on any ultimate combo. They don’t make the best bow builds either, that goes to Nightblades. They don’t make the best melee DoT or direct damage builds either since the end of proc stacking and Malacath era.

Galeriano

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

Nightblades get Major Resolve by casting a Shadow skill, I do not see why Necromancer cannot get a Major buff by casting a Grave Lord or Bone Tyrant skill.

Reusable parts passive granting major sorcery/brutality for X seconds on top of cost reduction wouid be actually pretty neat addition.

You'd have to slot Mender or your first blastbones wouldn't be cast with Brutality right? With my idea you could start the tether with Bone Armor's corpse at least.

But both these ideas have way less alpha strike potential than the other classes source of Brutality (even Plar but how absurd is it to see people casting Jabs out of combat).

Blastbones damage would be buffed since ability deals damage 3 seconds after cast and abilities dmg scales to the stats that user have when dealing damage not when casting the ability.