Paid for Early Access
TheSzerdi
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To all those claiming that we didn't pay for early access: ESO is available for purchase on direct2play.com for $43 and I knew this when I pre-ordered for $60 to get the early access. I paid $17 for early access. Your argument is invalid.
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liquid_wolf✭✭✭✭https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service
You agreed to these ToS when you bought and played the game:ZeniMax does not guarantee that any Services will be available at all times, in all countries and/or geographic locations, at any given time, or that it will continue to offer any particular Services for any particular length of time. Except as prohibited by applicable law, ZeniMax reserves the right to change and update Content without notice to You. ZeniMax also reserves the right to refuse Your request(s) to acquire Content, and to limit or block any request to acquire Content, including, but not limited to, Downloadable Content, for any reason.
ZeniMax may patch, update, or modify at any time with or without notice to You. Notwithstanding the foregoing, ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services. ZeniMax makes no guarantees about the persistence or availability of any user names or other personas at any time and assumes no liability for lost or deleted Account data. Except as prohibited by applicable law, You agree that ZeniMax will not be liable for any interruption of the Services, delay or failure to perform, any loss of Content (including, but not limited to, User-Generated Content and Downloadable Content), and/or Account data (including, but not limited to, Character data) resulting from any causes whatsoever. ZeniMax reserves the right to offer new Services, change and/or discontinue certain Services at any time in its sole discretion.Edited by liquid_wolf on April 2, 2014 4:42PM2 -
Mishica✭liquid_wolf wrote: »https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service
You agreed to these ToS when you bought and played the game:ZeniMax does not guarantee that any Services will be available at all times, in all countries and/or geographic locations, at any given time, or that it will continue to offer any particular Services for any particular length of time. Except as prohibited by applicable law, ZeniMax reserves the right to change and update Content without notice to You. ZeniMax also reserves the right to refuse Your request(s) to acquire Content, and to limit or block any request to acquire Content, including, but not limited to, Downloadable Content, for any reason.
ZeniMax may patch, update, or modify at any time with or without notice to You. Notwithstanding the foregoing, ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services. ZeniMax makes no guarantees about the persistence or availability of any user names or other personas at any time and assumes no liability for lost or deleted Account data. Except as prohibited by applicable law, You agree that ZeniMax will not be liable for any interruption of the Services, delay or failure to perform, any loss of Content (including, but not limited to, User-Generated Content and Downloadable Content), and/or Account data (including, but not limited to, Character data) resulting from any causes whatsoever. ZeniMax reserves the right to offer new Services, change and/or discontinue certain Services at any time in its sole discretion.
This agreement makes us unable to take any actions against ESO,
but does not make us less angry about not being able to play what we paid for.2 -
TheSzerdi✭✭I would love to see people's reactions if MMO style ToS were applied to things like buying a new car.
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Rammanjeff✭✭Dont worry. At the rate they are going, this game will be free-to-play in less than a year!It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong. ~ Thomas Sowell7 -
liquid_wolf✭✭✭✭I would love to see people's reactions if MMO style ToS were applied to things like buying a new car.
Read the agreements when you buy automobiles and any service contracts. They say much the same thing.
The courts take these agreements more seriously when there are thousands of dollars on the line.
Not simply 100 and/or 15 a month.
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MysticAura✭✭✭We still all got early access, even if some of it was taken by maintenance. Would you rather they not fix things? I kind of consider 'early access' to be like a final beta. They have to have everything ready for release. Release hasn't happened yet.2
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Jeralrik✭✭✭Rammanjeff wrote: »Dont worry. At the rate they are going, this game will be free-to-play in less than a year!
WoW, every MMO has had issues at launch and brought servers down for extended periods of patching.
WoW had a horrible launch and I almost quit but stuck with it coarse I haven't played it in 2 years because I was bored with it.
DDO had issues with the chat system going down during launch and a few other annoying bugs.
The only reason I could see a game going F2P is lack of end game content once everyone hit 50 like in SWTOR, everyone got bored and quit lack of population on all those servers some were practically ghost towns.
AN it's not really F2P if you spend oodles and oodles of money in the cash shops as a friend of mine plays SWTOR has spent around $4000+ dollars getting items for his characters on his account in a year.
I would rather pay 14.99 (179.88 a year) for a P2P game with all content unlocked and available than a F2P structure with a cash shop.
I don't mind these down times means Zenimax is working hard to squash and make the game playable.
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MorHawk✭✭✭✭✭To all those claiming that we didn't pay for early access: ESO is available for purchase on direct2play.com for $43 and I knew this when I pre-ordered for $60 to get the early access. I paid $17 for early access. Your argument is invalid.
I weep for humanity. Really. You get the full early access whether you bought direct or from a third party vendor. I for example, got my IE for $64 through GMG, and I logged on fine along with everyone else. The presence of a discount changes nothing. Try again.Edited by MorHawk on April 2, 2014 5:02PMI can count to potato.
WWJLHD?Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »another topic that cant see past its own farts.1 -
SloppyG✭early access is a pre-order perk, it's not paid for. Your paid "time" starts on april4.
Expect outages. If there are long outages after april 4 I expect they'll add time to everyone's account before they charge their first $15 / 30 days.1 -
the game was working just fine...until you showed up and broke it..now they have to shut down the megaserver and do all this maintenance just cuz you wanted to have fun....so deal with it..lol1 -
Rammanjeff wrote: »Dont worry. At the rate they are going, this game will be free-to-play in less than a year!
WoW, every MMO has had issues at launch and brought servers down for extended periods of patching.
WoW had a horrible launch and I almost quit but stuck with it coarse I haven't played it in 2 years because I was bored with it.
DDO had issues with the chat system going down during launch and a few other annoying bugs.
The only reason I could see a game going F2P is lack of end game content once everyone hit 50 like in SWTOR, everyone got bored and quit lack of population on all those servers some were practically ghost towns.
AN it's not really F2P if you spend oodles and oodles of money in the cash shops as a friend of mine plays SWTOR has spent around $4000+ dollars getting items for his characters on his account in a year.
I would rather pay 14.99 (179.88 a year) for a P2P game with all content unlocked and available than a F2P structure with a cash shop.
I don't mind these down times means Zenimax is working hard to squash and make the game playable.
Jetalrik is 100% right, for many of us who are die-hard mmorpg fans from p2p to f2p they all have a bad time with launch. Betas can only help solve some issues but not all, always expect maintence and patches if you want a great game. For example, it took WoW 2 years initially to be the WoW everyone loved. Lastly, look at SWoTR and Rift which both went f2p. With f2p both mmo basically died.0 -
Soliss✭✭✭The legal verbiage is for liability. However, you can write any legal language or not, it doesn't guarantee a working product or happy customers.
I disagree, early access is not beta. Beta is for beta testers. Early access is paid product for the general public. There is a huge difference when money has actually exchanged hands. We are now customers.
Now while Zenimax isn't likely legally obligated to provide anything back to the customers, not a 100% working product etc, it is typically in the best interest of a business to make sure they have a customer base that will continue to spend money. If the customers end up feeling that Zenimax is unable or unwilling to fulfill their side of the arrangement, then the customers will leave.
It's pretty simple. You vote with your pocketbook. I really like ESO so far and would like it to improve. It's still early.
And as a sidenote, I did the beta and launch of WoW as an example and it was pretty buggy with lots of maintenance. However, Blizzard offered up free subscription days to all customers effected when these occurred. I was also part of many other game launches that had issues and most of these games simply don't exist anymore.
So it works itself out.1 -
Quidel✭MysticAura wrote: »We still all got early access, even if some of it was taken by maintenance. Would you rather they not fix things? I kind of consider 'early access' to be like a final beta. They have to have everything ready for release. Release hasn't happened yet.
Really, i paid for 5 day early access. I have yet to be allowed to log in and even make a character let alone play yet.2 -
I remember back in the day when there was no early access and the servers where down 30% of the time for the first few days. Kids these days and all their entitlement.4
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sleepspasmnub18_ESO wrote: »I remember back in the day when there was no early access and the servers where down 30% of the time for the first few days. Kids these days and all their entitlement.
you are a wise man....
Kids these days and all their entitlements.
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gurahamu✭early access is a pre-order perk, it's not paid for. Your paid "time" starts on april4.
Expect outages. If there are long outages after april 4 I expect they'll add time to everyone's account before they charge their first $15 / 30 days.
you need to check out laws on advertising when it comes to making sales. Yes the early access is a perk, but it is also an advertised feature of the imperial edition - that you get 5 days early access. This is ZeniMax's promise when making the sale - so it is also a feature of the sale - not only a perk.
Sales of Goods Act in the UK states that items must be fit for purpose and as advertised otherwise the seller is subject to having to give a refund or replacement of some kind. This downtime demonstrates that the first of the points I mentioned pertaining to this law are not met. The game wasn't ready for release as it had significant problems.
Another such significant problem is while playing, after 10-60 minutes, I get kicked out to the login screen, where it says "An unknown error has occurred". The same has happened with my wife, and her friend.
The early access is the "as advertised" part. The moment they mentioned it on the VERSION COMPARISON pages is when they abandoned the perk status and made it a version feature.Edited by gurahamu on April 2, 2014 5:19PM3 -
funny how you ppl are whining about quest bugs so zan are fixing them now you are whining coz servers are off line as there fixing the quest you where whining about ... no pleasing you is there ?Edited by raykai12000b16_ESO on April 2, 2014 5:18PM[Guild]:
<The Dredge [DDGE]> Daggerfall Covenant | International | PvX | Adult Community | TS3+Mic required |http://ddge.zapto.org
[Addon Author] :
My addon : Reloadui Extra Slash Commands1 -
TheSzerdi✭✭I would rather the game stay in closed beta an extra 6 months than release a broken product. I don't mind downtime and bugs in alpha and beta. That's what alpha and beta are FOR. On release I expect 99% working as intended.2
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ghost151✭✭On ToS's and EULA's...
Just because a company requires you agree to them in order to play it in no way guarantees they are legally binding if it is contested. They can add all the legalese they want and make them longer and longer but if what they are asking you to agree to is unreasonable or illegal putting it in the document does not make it legal just because you clicked AGREE.
This was settled years ago when company's tried to say they breaking the plastic seal on a software package constituted agreeing to the EULA. The only problem was the EULA was INSIDE the sealed box you had to break in order to read the EULA and agree to.1 -
name me one mmo that at launch was not buggy ?I would rather the game stay in closed beta an extra 6 months than release a broken product. I don't mind downtime and bugs in alpha and beta. That's what alpha and beta are FOR. On release I expect 99% working as intended.[Guild]:
<The Dredge [DDGE]> Daggerfall Covenant | International | PvX | Adult Community | TS3+Mic required |http://ddge.zapto.org
[Addon Author] :
My addon : Reloadui Extra Slash Commands0 -
Exactly man, any mmo vet knows this is common, and as far as crap launches, aside from today, this launch has honestly been one of the best I can remember. So sick of probably 20 something year old guys acting like whiny 10 year olds. DO NOT BUY AN MMO AT LAUNCH IF YOU CANNOT HANDLE BUGS AND DOWNTIME!raykai12000b16_ESO wrote: »funny how you ppl are whining about quest bugs so zan are fixing them now you are whining coz servers are off line as there fixing the quest you where whining about ... no pleasing you is there ?
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liquid_wolf wrote: »https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service
You agreed to these ToS when you bought and played the game:ZeniMax does not guarantee that any Services will be available at all times, in all countries and/or geographic locations, at any given time, or that it will continue to offer any particular Services for any particular length of time. Except as prohibited by applicable law, ZeniMax reserves the right to change and update Content without notice to You. ZeniMax also reserves the right to refuse Your request(s) to acquire Content, and to limit or block any request to acquire Content, including, but not limited to, Downloadable Content, for any reason.
ZeniMax may patch, update, or modify at any time with or without notice to You. Notwithstanding the foregoing, ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services. ZeniMax makes no guarantees about the persistence or availability of any user names or other personas at any time and assumes no liability for lost or deleted Account data. Except as prohibited by applicable law, You agree that ZeniMax will not be liable for any interruption of the Services, delay or failure to perform, any loss of Content (including, but not limited to, User-Generated Content and Downloadable Content), and/or Account data (including, but not limited to, Character data) resulting from any causes whatsoever. ZeniMax reserves the right to offer new Services, change and/or discontinue certain Services at any time in its sole discretion.
Even though this is a true fact that we did agree too! It's still leaves a disdain for there product and what we will see in the future of our ventures, if we continue to choose to support their product
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liquid_wolf wrote: »https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service
You agreed to these ToS when you bought and played the game:ZeniMax does not guarantee that any Services will be available at all times, in all countries and/or geographic locations, at any given time, or that it will continue to offer any particular Services for any particular length of time. Except as prohibited by applicable law, ZeniMax reserves the right to change and update Content without notice to You. ZeniMax also reserves the right to refuse Your request(s) to acquire Content, and to limit or block any request to acquire Content, including, but not limited to, Downloadable Content, for any reason.
ZeniMax may patch, update, or modify at any time with or without notice to You. Notwithstanding the foregoing, ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services. ZeniMax makes no guarantees about the persistence or availability of any user names or other personas at any time and assumes no liability for lost or deleted Account data. Except as prohibited by applicable law, You agree that ZeniMax will not be liable for any interruption of the Services, delay or failure to perform, any loss of Content (including, but not limited to, User-Generated Content and Downloadable Content), and/or Account data (including, but not limited to, Character data) resulting from any causes whatsoever. ZeniMax reserves the right to offer new Services, change and/or discontinue certain Services at any time in its sole discretion.
This doesn't make this situation acceptable or decent from a service provider standpoint. It just makes it legal.0 -
GeneralCornwallace wrote: »Exactly man, any mmo vet knows this is common, and as far as crap launches, aside from today, this launch has honestly been one of the best I can remember. So sick of probably 20 something year old guys acting like whiny 10 year olds. DO NOT BUY AN MMO AT LAUNCH IF YOU CANNOT HANDLE BUGS AND DOWNTIME!
I think a lot of people took time off for work to play this game during early access and having the system down for now over 12 hours is kind of a crap situation. I am not saying Zenimax is liable or that there is some kind of serious infraction here but the situation sucks and I would have preferred that they not have to patch during early access. Most of the quest bugs and engine bugs that were fixed have been in reported status since long before the first public beta.
This is akin to buying a car, then finding out the Transmission is all messed up and having the dealership take it to the shop for days to fix it for free when if they actually did the inspection they SAID they did, they would have known the tranny was messed up and could have fixed it before they sold it to you.
The fact that they are fixing it is good, the fact that it was ever broken is bad, the fact that they knew damn well it was broken but didn't fix it until after it was sold and now the fix sucks their customers time away is very bad.0 -
Sephy✭✭I'd rather the servers be down and them fixing things than for them to be up and buggy as hell.
And as plenty of others have pointed out, no matter how much testing is done in beta, the real test is when it launches!1 -
This game was not ready to launch, and now these greedy people cash cowing on a great franchise are paying for it.1
