New Unarmed Mythic idea

Meredy · February 8

Now that ZOS introduced the new Ayleid mythic that alters sets they seem to be willing to make mythics that alter gear, which can be super duper interesting.

I’d like to propose a mythic very similar to this. Instead if disabling all set bonuses, it replaces and removes your weapons and replaces it with new stats to compromise for them, leaving you with just your fists on both bars.

Obviously a mythic like this will need to provide substantial buffs to compromise for not having weapon passives and not being able to swap to another weapon on your backbar.

However, I think it would be the perfect solution for the naysayers who think “I’d look too silly”, because with a mythic like this is unlikely to ever be meta tbh and will only see niche builds. But for it to open a gateway for viable unarmed builds would be really awesome.

Zos also wouldn’t have to think about new set drops if they were to make an unarmed skilline if they just introduced a mythic like this.

I hope to find more hand-to-hand tes3 enjoyers here in chat

bar_boss_A · February 8

Yes around 2000 weapon and spell power, 5% crit chance, 2k pen and 5% increased healing done should do the trick. You would have to find a way to add set boni to the bars. I prefer: while on your frontbar your left ring counts as three set items and while on your backbar your right ring counts as 3 set items.

Iriidius · February 8

When not slotting a weapon on your frontbar you loose(assuming you use 2h maul):
1571 weapon/spell dmg from the golden 2h weapon,
429 weapon/spell dmg from (4) and (5) piece bonus(1571+429=2000),
6000 penetration from sharpened maul,
a weapon glyph,
weapon passives other than 3k penetration from maul.
On the back bar you also loose stats and passives in
All these stats would have to be compensated and another 5 piece granted to compensate not beeing able to slot another mythic. Somehow the game needs to find the backbar and give it boni, that fit better for a backbar. PvP players probably want compensation for a defensive weapon, PvE players for a second offensive one.

It is logical that you hit harder with a weapon than without, but there is no reason why skills like whip, jabs, silver bolt or many others that are performed with no another or no weapon are weaker if you don’t have weapon and weapon skills can‘t be used without weapon anyway while not weapon skills are not using weapon. Light and Heavy attacks would be affected, but they are weak in ESO anyways.

I would prefer seeing these compensation added to an unarmed skill line rather than a mythic, so people can use it without having to buy chapters/dlcs, spend time to excavate a mythic and give up another slot in their build. This way you can also have only 1 unarmed bar without worrying that you are wasting a mythic by not using it to its full potential. Maybe it could be a skillline without active skills to make it less time consuming to implement, bug that doesnt seem to be a problem for ZoS when they have time to add scribing.

Avran_Sylt · February 8

Renowned Pugilist's Gloves:

With no weapons equipped, gain the following

Gain Empower.
Your Light Attacks deal [x] Additional Damage and cost [y] Stamina
Your Bash Attacks set enemies Off-Balance.
Dodging or Blocking an Attack, or completing a fully charged Heavy Attack grants [y] Weapon and Spell Damage for 5s.

It should be noted that this Mythic "consumes" 3 slots compared to the normal 1. So the Bonuses should consider that. Builds probably would have a Monster set, 5pc, and fill out the last two slots with 1pc sets (Druid/Trainee).

Necrotech_Master · February 8

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Renowned Pugilist's Gloves:

With no weapons equipped, gain the following
Gain Empower.

Your Light Attacks deal [x] Additional Damage and cost [y] Stamina

Your Bash Attacks set enemies Off-Balance.

Dodging or Blocking an Attack, or completing a fully charged Heavy Attack grants [y] Weapon and Spell Damage for 5s.

It should be noted that this Mythic "consumes" 3 slots compared to the normal 1. So the Bonuses should consider that. Builds probably would have a Monster set, 5pc, and fill out the last two slots with 1pc sets (Druid/Trainee).

i think they could feasibly make this a mythic weapon, it would be the first mythic weapon, but it would make more sense than eating the equivalent of 3 gear slots of set bonuses

or allow you to equip a weapon for some of the passive bonuses, but you cant actually use the weapon to attack or any weapon skills (like you could proc the enchant with your fists and benefit from the trait/weapon dmg)

Avran_Sylt · February 8

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Renowned Pugilist's Gloves:

With no weapons equipped, gain the following
Gain Empower.

Your Light Attacks deal [x] Additional Damage and cost [y] Stamina

Your Bash Attacks set enemies Off-Balance.

Dodging or Blocking an Attack, or completing a fully charged Heavy Attack grants [y] Weapon and Spell Damage for 5s.

It should be noted that this Mythic "consumes" 3 slots compared to the normal 1. So the Bonuses should consider that. Builds probably would have a Monster set, 5pc, and fill out the last two slots with 1pc sets (Druid/Trainee).

i think they could feasibly make this a mythic weapon, it would be the first mythic weapon, but it would make more sense than eating the equivalent of 3 gear slots of set bonuses

or allow you to equip a weapon for some of the passive bonuses, but you cant actually use the weapon to attack or any weapon skills (like you could proc the enchant with your fists and benefit from the trait/weapon dmg)

Mythic Weapon can be Back-bar/Front-barred and would then need to be balanced according to its use with a 2 5pc 1 monster setup, likely making it interesting or blatant powercreep for end-game builds, but underwhelming for less optimized setups. It's also kinda counter-productive to the "use fist" thematic if you're also using weapons and min-maxing stats with weapon stats/passives in mind.

I don't think this Mythic should try to be a generalist gear item, but rather a self-contained "unarmed class" utilizing the LA/HA/Block/Bash as "skills".

I do think that it consuming 3 slots would make it more interesting to build around than just another "Build it like a Master Weapon" or "Build it like the rest of the mythics", but if that's too much of a concern I can certainly see it just making a Necklace and a Ring count as two of their respective sets.

Necrotech_Master · February 8

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Renowned Pugilist's Gloves:

With no weapons equipped, gain the following
Gain Empower.

Your Light Attacks deal [x] Additional Damage and cost [y] Stamina

Your Bash Attacks set enemies Off-Balance.

Dodging or Blocking an Attack, or completing a fully charged Heavy Attack grants [y] Weapon and Spell Damage for 5s.

It should be noted that this Mythic "consumes" 3 slots compared to the normal 1. So the Bonuses should consider that. Builds probably would have a Monster set, 5pc, and fill out the last two slots with 1pc sets (Druid/Trainee).

i think they could feasibly make this a mythic weapon, it would be the first mythic weapon, but it would make more sense than eating the equivalent of 3 gear slots of set bonuses

or allow you to equip a weapon for some of the passive bonuses, but you cant actually use the weapon to attack or any weapon skills (like you could proc the enchant with your fists and benefit from the trait/weapon dmg)

Mythic Weapon can be Back-bar/Front-barred and would then need to be balanced according to its use with a 2 5pc 1 monster setup, likely making it interesting or blatant powercreep for end-game builds, but underwhelming for less optimized setups. It's also kinda counter-productive to the "use fist" thematic if you're also using weapons and min-maxing stats with weapon stats/passives in mind.

I don't think this Mythic should try to be a generalist gear item, but rather a self-contained "unarmed class" utilizing the LA/HA/Block/Bash as "skills".

I do think that it consuming 3 slots would make it more interesting to build around than just another "Build it like a Master Weapon" or "Build it like the rest of the mythics", but if that's too much of a concern I can certainly see it just making a Necklace and a Ring count as two of their respective sets.

im not sure how a mythic weapon could be implemented, but i think its possible they could make it work

a mythic being front/back barred, you would still be limited to having 1 mythic equipped at any one time, and you would still be losing 2 slots like an arena weapon

they could also do something else such as the mythic taking up the front and back bar weapon slots, or disallowing weapon swap while still allowing bar swap (though these 2 solutions might be a lot more dev work than just a balanced mythic weapon)

Avran_Sylt · February 8

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Renowned Pugilist's Gloves:

With no weapons equipped, gain the following
Gain Empower.

Your Light Attacks deal [x] Additional Damage and cost [y] Stamina

Your Bash Attacks set enemies Off-Balance.

Dodging or Blocking an Attack, or completing a fully charged Heavy Attack grants [y] Weapon and Spell Damage for 5s.

It should be noted that this Mythic "consumes" 3 slots compared to the normal 1. So the Bonuses should consider that. Builds probably would have a Monster set, 5pc, and fill out the last two slots with 1pc sets (Druid/Trainee).

i think they could feasibly make this a mythic weapon, it would be the first mythic weapon, but it would make more sense than eating the equivalent of 3 gear slots of set bonuses

or allow you to equip a weapon for some of the passive bonuses, but you cant actually use the weapon to attack or any weapon skills (like you could proc the enchant with your fists and benefit from the trait/weapon dmg)

Mythic Weapon can be Back-bar/Front-barred and would then need to be balanced according to its use with a 2 5pc 1 monster setup, likely making it interesting or blatant powercreep for end-game builds, but underwhelming for less optimized setups. It's also kinda counter-productive to the "use fist" thematic if you're also using weapons and min-maxing stats with weapon stats/passives in mind.

I don't think this Mythic should try to be a generalist gear item, but rather a self-contained "unarmed class" utilizing the LA/HA/Block/Bash as "skills".

I do think that it consuming 3 slots would make it more interesting to build around than just another "Build it like a Master Weapon" or "Build it like the rest of the mythics", but if that's too much of a concern I can certainly see it just making a Necklace and a Ring count as two of their respective sets.

im not sure how a mythic weapon could be implemented, but i think its possible they could make it work

a mythic being front/back barred, you would still be limited to having 1 mythic equipped at any one time, and you would still be losing 2 slots like an arena weapon

they could also do something else such as the mythic taking up the front and back bar weapon slots, or disallowing weapon swap while still allowing bar swap (though these 2 solutions might be a lot more dev work than just a balanced mythic weapon)

I'm not against the idea of a mythic weapon, but a mythic that focuses on unarmed combat should be about unarmed combat. Not swapping between weapons and punches.

Necrotech_Master · February 8

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Renowned Pugilist's Gloves:

With no weapons equipped, gain the following
Gain Empower.

Your Light Attacks deal [x] Additional Damage and cost [y] Stamina

Your Bash Attacks set enemies Off-Balance.

Dodging or Blocking an Attack, or completing a fully charged Heavy Attack grants [y] Weapon and Spell Damage for 5s.

It should be noted that this Mythic "consumes" 3 slots compared to the normal 1. So the Bonuses should consider that. Builds probably would have a Monster set, 5pc, and fill out the last two slots with 1pc sets (Druid/Trainee).

i think they could feasibly make this a mythic weapon, it would be the first mythic weapon, but it would make more sense than eating the equivalent of 3 gear slots of set bonuses

or allow you to equip a weapon for some of the passive bonuses, but you cant actually use the weapon to attack or any weapon skills (like you could proc the enchant with your fists and benefit from the trait/weapon dmg)

Mythic Weapon can be Back-bar/Front-barred and would then need to be balanced according to its use with a 2 5pc 1 monster setup, likely making it interesting or blatant powercreep for end-game builds, but underwhelming for less optimized setups. It's also kinda counter-productive to the "use fist" thematic if you're also using weapons and min-maxing stats with weapon stats/passives in mind.

I don't think this Mythic should try to be a generalist gear item, but rather a self-contained "unarmed class" utilizing the LA/HA/Block/Bash as "skills".

I do think that it consuming 3 slots would make it more interesting to build around than just another "Build it like a Master Weapon" or "Build it like the rest of the mythics", but if that's too much of a concern I can certainly see it just making a Necklace and a Ring count as two of their respective sets.

im not sure how a mythic weapon could be implemented, but i think its possible they could make it work

a mythic being front/back barred, you would still be limited to having 1 mythic equipped at any one time, and you would still be losing 2 slots like an arena weapon

they could also do something else such as the mythic taking up the front and back bar weapon slots, or disallowing weapon swap while still allowing bar swap (though these 2 solutions might be a lot more dev work than just a balanced mythic weapon)

I'm not against the idea of a mythic weapon, but a mythic that focuses on unarmed combat should be about unarmed combat. Not swapping between weapons and punches.

well being unable to weapon swap would mean you couldnt use your back bar weapon (without limiting skill bars)

and there are probably people who might want to use a unarmed + weapon build too, so even if they didnt disable the weapon swap, you could just not equip another weapon on the other bar and still be unarmed, though obviously weaker without the mythic

really all depends on how they would implement it

Avran_Sylt · February 8

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Renowned Pugilist's Gloves:

With no weapons equipped, gain the following
Gain Empower.

Your Light Attacks deal [x] Additional Damage and cost [y] Stamina

Your Bash Attacks set enemies Off-Balance.

Dodging or Blocking an Attack, or completing a fully charged Heavy Attack grants [y] Weapon and Spell Damage for 5s.

It should be noted that this Mythic "consumes" 3 slots compared to the normal 1. So the Bonuses should consider that. Builds probably would have a Monster set, 5pc, and fill out the last two slots with 1pc sets (Druid/Trainee).

i think they could feasibly make this a mythic weapon, it would be the first mythic weapon, but it would make more sense than eating the equivalent of 3 gear slots of set bonuses

or allow you to equip a weapon for some of the passive bonuses, but you cant actually use the weapon to attack or any weapon skills (like you could proc the enchant with your fists and benefit from the trait/weapon dmg)

Mythic Weapon can be Back-bar/Front-barred and would then need to be balanced according to its use with a 2 5pc 1 monster setup, likely making it interesting or blatant powercreep for end-game builds, but underwhelming for less optimized setups. It's also kinda counter-productive to the "use fist" thematic if you're also using weapons and min-maxing stats with weapon stats/passives in mind.

I don't think this Mythic should try to be a generalist gear item, but rather a self-contained "unarmed class" utilizing the LA/HA/Block/Bash as "skills".

I do think that it consuming 3 slots would make it more interesting to build around than just another "Build it like a Master Weapon" or "Build it like the rest of the mythics", but if that's too much of a concern I can certainly see it just making a Necklace and a Ring count as two of their respective sets.

im not sure how a mythic weapon could be implemented, but i think its possible they could make it work

a mythic being front/back barred, you would still be limited to having 1 mythic equipped at any one time, and you would still be losing 2 slots like an arena weapon

they could also do something else such as the mythic taking up the front and back bar weapon slots, or disallowing weapon swap while still allowing bar swap (though these 2 solutions might be a lot more dev work than just a balanced mythic weapon)

I'm not against the idea of a mythic weapon, but a mythic that focuses on unarmed combat should be about unarmed combat. Not swapping between weapons and punches.

well being unable to weapon swap would mean you couldnt use your back bar weapon (without limiting skill bars)

and there are probably people who might want to use a unarmed + weapon build too, so even if they didnt disable the weapon swap, you could just not equip another weapon on the other bar and still be unarmed, though obviously weaker without the mythic

really all depends on how they would implement it

Limiting barswap would mean the mythic should take into consideration the loss of passive slot effects or active passive effects of other abilities, and would likely need to also step on the toes of something like Oakensoul.

It seems like ZOS is trying to make most general passives apply from both bars with slotted abilities, so it may eventually be a non-issue.

And I'm hesitant on using more weapons with this Mythic. On one hand, you can then slot a ranged weapon so you can have reliable access to resource restoration when an enemy is consistently distant. But on the other hand there is a uniqueness that comes with limiting your combat effectiveness to strictly close-range while using the mythic.

Erickson9610 · February 8

I doubt that we'll ever get Mythic weapons. Only one Mythic can be equipped at a time, so that means it can only be used on one bar. Plus, what happens if you equip a Mythic weapon, bar swap, then try to equip a jewelry/body piece Mythic? Surely the game won't allow that, because then you could bar swap again and get the effects of two Mythics.

Besides, we have Arena Weapons, which are functionally like Mythic weapons, with the caveat that they modify the effect of some Weapon skill. Maybe ZOS should make a Hand-to-Hand (weaponless) Weapon skill line and make a new Arena Weapon for each of the 5 new Hand-to-Hand skills.

That aside, we should get a true Unarmed (armorless) Mythic, which not only disables set bonuses, but also disables all effects of the armor weights themselves (including defense gained, Undaunted Mettle, and all Armor passives and skills). That is, an Unarmed Mythic would make it as if you wore no armor at all, and a Hand-to-Hand Mythic would make it as if you had no weapons equipped at all.

Finedaible · February 8

I like the idea. Would be funny to go in and pummel Molags bal.

Meredy · February 8

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I doubt that we'll ever get Mythic weapons. Only one Mythic can be equipped at a time, so that means it can only be used on one bar. Plus, what happens if you equip a Mythic weapon, bar swap, then try to equip a jewelry/body piece Mythic? Surely the game won't allow that, because then you could bar swap again and get the effects of two Mythics.

Besides, we have Arena Weapons, which are functionally like Mythic weapons, with the caveat that they modify the effect of some Weapon skill. Maybe ZOS should make a Hand-to-Hand (weaponless) Weapon skill line and make a new Arena Weapon for each of the 5 new Hand-to-Hand skills.

That aside, we should get a true Unarmed (armorless) Mythic, which not only disables set bonuses, but also disables all effects of the armor weights themselves (including defense gained, Undaunted Mettle, and all Armor passives and skills). That is, an Unarmed Mythic would make it as if you wore no armor at all, and a Hand-to-Hand Mythic would make it as if you had no weapons equipped at all.

You know they can just program it to make it function as one item right?

gariondavey · February 9

Make it mythic gloves.
You still keep 4 and 5 pc stat bonuses on front bar and back bar of your sets
It replaces your weapon visual with just your hands

Iriidius · February 9

gariondavey wrote: »

Make it mythic gloves.
You still keep 4 and 5 pc stat bonuses on front bar and back bar of your sets
It replaces your weapon visual with just your hands

If it is only a visual change than they could also make it a just cosmetic like there is also free face or costumes that overwrite your complete look.
If you really want be unarmed than weapons need to be empty and fully replaced. But of course it would also be a possibility to maje it look like your weapons are not drawn but still give you all their passivesand stats from weapon itself, trait, glyph and set but no weapon skills.

Panderbander · February 10

I feel like a mythic unarmed "weapon" would be a pretty cool idea. Make it stat dense to make up for the loss of weapon passives and make it double-bar-able so you can go all in if you want. If you want an example or inspiration, monk on WoW equips a weapon but none of their abilities require a weapon nor do they use it in any of their animations; it's purely for stats.

Avran_Sylt · February 10

A larger list of potential ways to amplify base combat abilities through this mythic

Light Attacks cost [x] Stamina and deal [y] additional Damage
Heavy Attacks grant [z] Weapon and Spell Damage to Martial Melee Attacks for 5s (So this should exclude things like NB Concealed Weapon/Surprise Attack and mainly buff just LA/HA)
Bash sets enemies off-balance, grants Empower for 10s, and deals an additional [y] Damage while you don't have Empower.
Blocking an Attack grants Major Courage.
Roll-dodge deals [m] Damage and Stuns enemies you come into contact with
Activating Crouch causes you to dodge the next attack, this can occur once per second.

Meredy · February 11

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

A larger list of potential ways to amplify base combat abilities through this mythic
Light Attacks cost [x] Stamina and deal [y] additional Damage

Heavy Attacks grant [z] Weapon and Spell Damage to Martial Melee Attacks for 5s (So this should exclude things like NB Concealed Weapon/Surprise Attack and mainly buff just LA/HA)

Bash sets enemies off-balance, grants Empower for 10s, and deals an additional [y] Damage while you don't have Empower.

Blocking an Attack grants Major Courage.

Roll-dodge deals [m] Damage and Stuns enemies you come into contact with

Activating Crouch causes you to dodge the next attack, this can occur once per second.

I love it. The Crouch one sounds insanely OP though haha but I like the idea