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Are No-Pet PVE MagSorcs viable again?

MakeMeUhSamich
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Console newb here. Thanks in advance.
  • acastanza_ESO
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    Meh. They're underperforming petsorc by about 10k, which is pretty bad considering the significantly increased amount of effort compared to petsorc. But that's a significant improvement over where they used to be, and they're the main way to run sorc in PVP for sure.
  • Tannus15
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    10% damage loss to run no pet, and it's way harder, and everything is single target, so there is no cleave.

    depends on what content you're doing, but if you are in a progression group then you should be running pets.
  • RandomKodiak
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    As Tannus15 said about 10% behind pet Sorcs but that is a big jump from the 20% they have been. If you just really hate pets and are not proging they are much better. So if you are soloing or just running casual with friends you can now but as was said above by all not for serious damage in trials or trifecta groups for dungeons.
  • Tannus15
    Tannus15
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    As Tannus15 said about 10% behind pet Sorcs but that is a big jump from the 20% they have been. If you just really hate pets and are not proging they are much better. So if you are soloing or just running casual with friends you can now but as was said above by all not for serious damage in trials or trifecta groups for dungeons.

    the problem with this is that it's vastly underestimating how much more work the frags + BA + spammable rotation is. it's a lot more work to get good dps from a no pet build which makes it less casual friendly to do.
  • MakeMeUhSamich
    MakeMeUhSamich
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    Thanks, all!
  • Jsmalls
    Jsmalls
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    Could theoretically increase damage dealt by the sorcerer while haunting curse is active. Kind of like a reverse Daedric Prey. Should only be like 5% - 10% or something. This would bring them in line with PvE DPS of pet Sorcs while doing something that makes sense as a bonus to the other morph.
  • Pelanora
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    Thanks for the not play- it- your- way, zos.

  • Tannus15
    Tannus15
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    Pelanora wrote: »
    Thanks for the not play- it- your- way, zos.

    to be fair, it works, it's just not optimal.
  • Pelanora
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    Should be the same, tho.

    10% less damage....
  • Tannus15
    Tannus15
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    Why? you're ignoring some important skills from the sorc skill trees.

    I don't see why "partial sorc" should be able to compete with "full sorc".

    however, shouting at ZoS about it seemed to work for frost wardens, so lets go shock sorc!
  • Pelanora
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    Tannus15 wrote: »
    Why? you're ignoring some important skills from the sorc skill trees.

    I don't see why "partial sorc" should be able to compete with "full sorc".

    however, shouting at ZoS about it seemed to work for frost wardens, so lets go shock sorc!

    I don't see no pet sorc as partial sorc. Dark magic should be viable, or lightning, as a full sorc.
    Zos cld juggle things so either, or, works, and you don't get double, if using both.
  • Tannus15
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    @MashmalloMan while a lot of these suggestions are great, and sure, they would help no pet sorc, they would also help pet sorc so the gap between them would remain the same.

    if you buff liquid lightning and morphs then we run it instead of hurricane.
    we're already using bound armaments because of maelstrom 2h, and the thing pet sorcs need more than anything is something on their bar with Major Savagery/Prophecy. no pet sorc actually has the bar space to slot evil hunter / inner light.
    changing mag damage to shock or physical buffs daedric prey, and frags, which again, we're already using.
    if mages fury gets buffed then most likely pet sorcs run frags as spammable with fury.

    don't get me wrong, these are great suggestions which would fix a lot of problems with the class, however it does almost nothing to close the gap between pet and no pet.
    Edited by Tannus15 on February 6, 2024 9:15PM
  • Alpheu5
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    Tannus15 wrote: »
    they just need to change it from 10% resource to 10% damage done

    straight up, the passive is not strong enough. resource % is welcome, but it's also the weakest dps buff you can get.

    Then sorc tanks would be bottlenecked into running a pet to get any use out of the passive. At least they can still benefit from more resources.
    Dalek-Rok - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Shād - Argonian Nightblade || Dalek-Shul - Argonian Templar || Dalek-Xal - Argonian Dragonknight || Mounts-the-Snout - Argonian Warden || Dalek-Xul - Argonian Necromancer || Two-Spires - Argonian Arcanist || Dalek-Nesh - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Kör - Argonian Dragonknight
    Don't incorporate bugs into your builds, and you won't have [an] issue.
  • Tannus15
    Tannus15
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    Alpheu5 wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    they just need to change it from 10% resource to 10% damage done

    straight up, the passive is not strong enough. resource % is welcome, but it's also the weakest dps buff you can get.

    Then sorc tanks would be bottlenecked into running a pet to get any use out of the passive. At least they can still benefit from more resources.

    funnily enough the current change is a nerf to tanks since slotting bound aegis no longer gives you 10% max health
  • Tannus15
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    @MashmalloMan yeah, absolutely. the prey buff was a band-aid to address the over the top nerfs in U35.

    unless they nerf prey, haunting curse feels like the skill most primed for a buff. I reckon increase the damage of the second explosion. if you get hit by the 2nd proc in pvp, well fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

    if pet sorc wants to run haunting then their pets won't be hitting so hard so it'll close the gap anyway.
  • Turtle_Bot
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    Yeah, that over nerf in U35 was absolutely insane and still makes no sense why they decided to go that hard on top of the generic nerfs every class was already getting. The fact that they had to band-aid buff 2 abilities in the final week of the PTS with a 100% or more damage increase each, goes to show just how overboard they went with the nerfs to sorcerer in U35...
    Bound Armaments had its 50% damage nerf reverted, i.e. a 100% buff from the new value it had that PTS cycle (still didn't get its LA boost back).
    Prey got its pet bonus increased by over 100% from 20% to 45%.
  • MashmalloMan
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    Tannus15 wrote: »
    @MashmalloMan yeah, absolutely. the prey buff was a band-aid to address the over the top nerfs in U35.

    unless they nerf prey, haunting curse feels like the skill most primed for a buff. I reckon increase the damage of the second explosion. if you get hit by the 2nd proc in pvp, well fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

    if pet sorc wants to run haunting then their pets won't be hitting so hard so it'll close the gap anyway.

    True. I still don't think PVP sorc needs something like that. For PVP, we just need better bar space and pot flexibility which would instantly be fixed by Breach on Haunting and Savagery/Prophecy on BA.

    I'll say this. If they did everything I suggested, not the specifics necessarily, but just buffing Fury/Splash at minimum, nerf Prey, and Scribing comes out... And no pet sorc is still behind, then the easiest buff they can do without effecting PVP is:

    Add a +5% unique debuff to Haunting Curse that increases damage dealt to monsters. With everything else, that would probably be enough to equalize the 2 builds.

    But again, I feel like we'd have to see how things play out first before jumping to something like that.
    Edited by MashmalloMan on February 8, 2024 1:31AM
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • MashmalloMan
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    Turtle_Bot wrote: »
    Yeah, that over nerf in U35 was absolutely insane and still makes no sense why they decided to go that hard on top of the generic nerfs every class was already getting. The fact that they had to band-aid buff 2 abilities in the final week of the PTS with a 100% or more damage increase each, goes to show just how overboard they went with the nerfs to sorcerer in U35...
    Bound Armaments had its 50% damage nerf reverted, i.e. a 100% buff from the new value it had that PTS cycle (still didn't get its LA boost back).
    Prey got its pet bonus increased by over 100% from 20% to 45%.

    Yeah. Excellent summary.

    BA is still in a weird place with hybridization, especially now that we get 10% stam/mag. Stam sorcs really don't need 18% stam beyond some niche applications like Dragon's Appetite heal scaling.

    We rely on Surge and Dark Deal which scale from crit, Vigor which scales easier with damage/crit, lastly Hardened Ward sometimes and Blood Magic which both scale from HP. The new Mine shields scale from stamina, but I really don't think any stam sorc is going to rely on that jank in a melee setup, maybe range, but at that point I'd say a mag sorc is probably stronger and I'd rather use Hardened Ward + Heal Encase anyway.

    BA is a prime candidate for some much needed hybridization and Sorc quality of life improvements. Whether you're a stam sorc, mag sorc, or pet sorc, the skill is a good addition for passives, sustain, and damage as a semi spammable.

    I'm willing to concede that BA can't be as powerful as Grim Focus seeing as Sorc has other burst tools at their disposal... However, why is it also a worst passive/utility boost? Grim Focus's 300-400 weapon damage and heal is infinitely better than 8% stamina. If we can't get the power, let's balance out the passives. Crit for earning daggers would make it more rewarding, but not permanent, major prophecy would play well with our minor prophecy.
    Edited by MashmalloMan on February 8, 2024 1:49AM
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • RandomKodiak
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    Pet Sorc still way better but for those that just hate pets and want to run solo or with friends that don't mind.
    Screenshot_20240208_133716.png?ex=65d7a3bb&is=65c52ebb&hm=51952b9633874ad51438da1febc0ff832d059b7428e69ea16f6e0ad52f3ca371&
    Screenshot_20240208_133706.png?ex=65d7a3bb&is=65c52ebb&hm=1230a321d188d7676dd02f632e4b1749afb39ef2c47626e4a5862979dbe785de&
    And even has some AoE
    Screenshot_20240208_133736.png?ex=65d7a3e0&is=65c52ee0&hm=ff1b0bac4bc8bbafc46306dc2ab9111f7e967246464e710868330f101a645407&

    Now want to restate what others have said, this is still about 10% behind pet sorc and it's a running not a parse set up so DO NOT try to take this build where it is not wanted and come back and yell at me LoL
  • RandomKodiak
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    Had a bad few lag spikes so that's why Rele got dropped the one time but since it was just for fun didn't feel like redoing it
  • MakeMeUhSamich
    MakeMeUhSamich
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    Pet Sorc still way better but for those that just hate pets and want to run solo or with friends that don't mind.
    Screenshot_20240208_133716.png?ex=65d7a3bb&is=65c52ebb&hm=51952b9633874ad51438da1febc0ff832d059b7428e69ea16f6e0ad52f3ca371&
    Screenshot_20240208_133706.png?ex=65d7a3bb&is=65c52ebb&hm=1230a321d188d7676dd02f632e4b1749afb39ef2c47626e4a5862979dbe785de&
    And even has some AoE
    Screenshot_20240208_133736.png?ex=65d7a3e0&is=65c52ee0&hm=ff1b0bac4bc8bbafc46306dc2ab9111f7e967246464e710868330f101a645407&

    Now want to restate what others have said, this is still about 10% behind pet sorc and it's a running not a parse set up so DO NOT try to take this build where it is not wanted and come back and yell at me LoL

    Thanks for this!
  • Alpheu5
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    Tannus15 wrote: »
    Alpheu5 wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    they just need to change it from 10% resource to 10% damage done

    straight up, the passive is not strong enough. resource % is welcome, but it's also the weakest dps buff you can get.

    Then sorc tanks would be bottlenecked into running a pet to get any use out of the passive. At least they can still benefit from more resources.

    funnily enough the current change is a nerf to tanks since slotting bound aegis no longer gives you 10% max health

    I know it is in a sense but at least with a health/stat split it's possible for a non-pet tank to reallocate some of the extra resources back into health. A health/damage split would just mean that tanks must either proc the health half of the passive or not benefit from it at all.
    Dalek-Rok - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Shād - Argonian Nightblade || Dalek-Shul - Argonian Templar || Dalek-Xal - Argonian Dragonknight || Mounts-the-Snout - Argonian Warden || Dalek-Xul - Argonian Necromancer || Two-Spires - Argonian Arcanist || Dalek-Nesh - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Kör - Argonian Dragonknight
    Don't incorporate bugs into your builds, and you won't have [an] issue.
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