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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/653550/

No changes to accommodate the disabled players?

nokturnihs
nokturnihs
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So we lost HA builds, most one bar builds aren't viable for trials and the like anymore and arcanist (a disabled friendly class) is getting significant nerfs. Is ESO just gonna push the RSI (repetitive stress injury) play style going forward or you guys gonna give those of us with issues a chance to participate in all elements of the game we pay for?

Some suggestions:
- Disable mythics in PvP or balance PvE and PvP separately like you should have done years ago.
- disable light attack weaving altogether by increasing LA cooldowns to 1 second. Alternatively, put a DPS speed limiter in effect that artificially levels the playing field with the try hards and the "hurts to play but i enjoy the game" crowd.
- better than that give us world tiers so the try hards can do any content with as much sweat and blood as they like but those of us who just want ACCESS to the content can enjoy the game more casually.

I have a hard time getting excited over this game anymore. Gold road looked great but then I read the patch notes and it's hard to not come to the conclusion that ZOS just doesn't seem to understand their disabled players or care. It makes it hard to play the game. Was excited about infinite archive but again, it's a game that's really only geared towards try hard chads and has a virtual "No entry" sign over it for disabled or more casual players.

Just my opinion but you already have a ton of activities for the try hards chads and the overland content doesn't offer a lot of value for time like a dungeon or trial.

I'd love someone at ZOS to address the issue with disabled players directly if they'd be so kind?
  • Reginald_leBlem
    Reginald_leBlem
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    There's many kinds of disabled, I cannot even imagine a logical place to start.
  • CameraBeardThePirate
    CameraBeardThePirate
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    nokturnihs wrote: »
    So we lost HA builds, most one bar builds aren't viable for trials and the like anymore and arcanist (a disabled friendly class) is getting significant nerfs. Is ESO just gonna push the RSI (repetitive stress injury) play style going forward or you guys gonna give those of us with issues a chance to participate in all elements of the game we pay for?

    Significant nerfs? Arcanist is hardly getting touched. Their dps won't even change - Beam is ever so slightly being nerfed and the damage will be offset by the status effect buffs.

    Also, Oakensoul builds are still absolutely viable for trials. BiS? No, of course not, but saying they aren't viable is just incorrect.
  • sharquez
    sharquez
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    Where are you getting this impression from? HA builds and 1 bar is still fine and dandy, I should know I use them for Ve- level PVE, EA and some lazy pvp. Arcanists are losing a small percentage of damage from their channeled beam attack which is a negligable amount that won't break anything.

    My hands are ravaged from years of keyboard use and precussive force so i know where you are coming from. Don't get it twisted.

    Sounds to me like your'e are caught in a cycle of negativity or suffering from burnout, The game is always going to change and it's accessibility is leagues above the majority of other games.

    Maybe you can elaborate as to where you are getting these impressions from?
    At least 3 of each class. PVPing Since IC.
  • CGPsaint
    CGPsaint
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    There's many kinds of disabled, I cannot even imagine a logical place to start.

    It's difficult to have a starting place at all when some many tryhards immediately break out the pitchforks and torches any time someone starts making suggestions for making the game accessible to anyone not dummy humping 24/7 whilst maintaining perfect rotations on meta builds. There is legitimately zero tolerance in this community for anyone who can't use a standard 2-bar build and light attack weave.

    "Some enjoy bringing grief to others. They remind M'aiq of mudcrabs—horrible creatures, with no redeeming qualities."
  • Dekrypted
    Dekrypted
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    nokturnihs wrote: »

    Some suggestions:
    - Disable mythics in PvP or balance PvE and PvP separately like you should have done years ago.

    Eso isn't structured in a way right now to fully separate the two, but vehicles and avenues are opening up. Reworking skills to work more for one setting, the adjustment of empower to only effect monsters, the overall condition of only effecting monsters, and battle spirit dependant gear like Rallying cry. Not perfect, but a start.
    nokturnihs wrote: »
    disable light attack weaving altogether by increasing LA cooldowns to 1 second. Alternatively, put a DPS speed limiter in effect that artificially levels the playing field with the try hards and the "hurts to play but i enjoy the game" crowd.

    The Velothi mythic seems to be the most direct way for addressing this within the ESO systems. The Arcanist has amazing synergy with the mythic and I've had some friends with ping issues rejoice over the mythic for the sole reason that they don't need to light attack anymore, or atleast as often.
    nokturnihs wrote: »
    better than that give us world tiers so the try hards can do any content with as much sweat and blood as they like but those of us who just want ACCESS to the content can enjoy the game more casually.

    Within the ESO systems, I don't think it's possible, but there are definetly different build/gear combinations that should accommodate your desire to have a more casual friendly experience in overland content. As for the 4 man dungeons, running with a companion I know cam help, but there is an intended difficulty ladder associated with some of these dungeons. So it's a bit of a structural concern, but there are still plenty of ways to get around it.
    nokturnihs wrote: »
    I have a hard time getting excited over this game anymore. Gold road looked great but then I read the patch notes and it's hard to not come to the conclusion that ZOS just doesn't seem to understand their disabled players or care. It makes it hard to play the game. Was excited about infinite archive but again, it's a game that's really only geared towards try hard chads and has a virtual "No entry" sign over it for disabled or more casual players.

    I'd love someone at ZOS to address the issue with disabled players directly if they'd be so kind?

    Totally agree that Zenimax needs to improve their communication across the board. With the PTS as an example, these changes are dropped with small dev comments, but at this point it's expected to have a slew of follow up questions. Radio silence for so long just doesn't give any or restore any confidence and that's desperately needed.

    PC NA
    March 2014 - December 2023
    No longer active

    Templar Main
  • Reginald_leBlem
    Reginald_leBlem
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    Velothi is an excellent choice for ANY class.

    If you struggle with light attack weaving, you will likely see an increase in damage from velothi
  • Dovahkiin02191973
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    Disabled can mean a lot of things. Physical and mental. I think here the OP is talking physical although I never see him say what is wrong and I am not going to ask as it is none of my business. I will share mine. In 1999 I was involved in a weight lifting accident that pretty much tore my neck to shreds. If you know your anatomy then you know that your hands are connected to your neck. The weight I was holding was in my hands. To make it short all of the vertebrae in my neck are out of place and crooked. Therefore I have pinched spinal nerves that run from the neck into my hands. I have had severe numbness in my hands ever since and there is nothing that can be done to fix it. What does this mean for the game. Well I can't play on an Xbox as holding the controller numbs up my hands in minutes and with a keyboard and mouse I have to limit my time as if I don't numb hands can lead to even worse conditions like carpal tunnel syndrome. So I get it but does ZOS have to find a way to get around everyone's personal disability when creating this game. Absolutely not. They can't. It is impossible. It is up to the player to find their tolerance level and know when to stop when whatever is wrong flares up because of the game.
    Edited by Dovahkiin02191973 on February 1, 2024 8:10PM
  • nokturnihs
    nokturnihs
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    So 1 bar builds do the following:
    Reduce the need to maintain a rhythm from 14+ to 8ish. HA builds further reduced the need for high IPS activity. Yes it's boring, and no it still wasn't BIS but lightning staff HA builds lost 50%+ of their AOE damage with the changes to how HA worked. The only other basic skills that do that are 2h weapons. The appeal to 1 bar and HA builds was having to activate buffs or dots every 10 or so seconds and then put out damage with as few activations as possible
    I play using a controller to make the game accessible at all and so a lower IPS gave me the ability to be mobile, Dodge attacks, maybe block. Another viable option would be to turn buff skills into toggles and reserve Magicka or something similar.

    As to the argument that disabling mythics isn't possible - if you read the patch notes you'd know that isn't true. The new mythic does EXACTLY that.

    Regarding world tiers - it's absolutely possible. Everything BUT the layered instancing for it is already in place - everything scales with the player, etc. world tiers would also probably give servers a break because you could have less populated instances and less soul crushing lag because of lower population in different instances.

    There's always been a lot of gatekeeping in this game to higher level content. Also in the community forums. I don't care if I'm the best or even close. I don't play meta as it usually panders to people with more physical coordination and also enjoy build crafting to meet my own limitations. Of course there was some people who are gonna throw shade and feel like I'm being disingenuous. I'm not. Of course gameplay changes, build viability dies in every game as content is introduced. Oaken soul introduced a way to mitigate some of the problems myself and some of my older more physically messed up friends and we were able to enjoy parts of the game locked out to us prior because frankly either the DPS checks were too high for our gimpy behinds or the community wasn't interested in carrying us. We were able to do vet dungeons previously improbable, etc.

    Maybe it is burnout, but having that and then taking it away (at least in part) to be forced back out into the overland content and the OG dungeons feels bad.

    Maybe I'm just tired of being told by overly competitive players how I'm supposed to play my game and having ZOS back then over and over again is tiring and discouraging. That said ZOS absolutely tends to favor specific portions of the community at the expense of other portions of the player base and frankly, we're all paying customers. Can't make everyone happy all the time but they could try and take a more even approach in my mind.

    I appreciate those of providing value to the discussion!
  • nokturnihs
    nokturnihs
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    Oh and Velothi is a great suggestion, but doesn't do much to reduce the IPS issue in most cases. You still have a pretty complicated rotation and while it's not impossible, you still are gonna need to do a lot more to keep up some of the basics like major prophecy, etc.
  • Dekrypted
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    nokturnihs wrote: »
    Oh and Velothi is a great suggestion, but doesn't do much to reduce the IPS issue in most cases. You still have a pretty complicated rotation and while it's not impossible, you still are gonna need to do a lot more to keep up some of the basics like major prophecy, etc.

    Some basics can be handled through potions or slotted abilities like inner light or camouflaged hunter. To ensure your weapon enchants activate, slot a weapon damage dot like wall of elements or deadly/quick cloak. Beyond some adjustments and velothi, I'm confident you can find the right balance.

    I always tell the people I've coached to do what makes your fingers happy. Pvp is a bit more complicated, but in the past I've helped some disabled players run thorn tanks or disrupter tanks. They found alot of joy in it while needing to hit less, remain tanky and co tribute to the group in their own way.
    Edited by Dekrypted on February 2, 2024 6:39AM
    PC NA
    March 2014 - December 2023
    No longer active

    Templar Main
  • J18696
    J18696
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    nokturnihs wrote: »
    So we lost HA builds, most one bar builds aren't viable for trials and the like anymore and arcanist (a disabled friendly class) is getting significant nerfs. Is ESO just gonna push the RSI (repetitive stress injury) play style going forward or you guys gonna give those of us with issues a chance to participate in all elements of the game we pay for?

    Some suggestions:
    - Disable mythics in PvP or balance PvE and PvP separately like you should have done years ago.
    - disable light attack weaving altogether by increasing LA cooldowns to 1 second. Alternatively, put a DPS speed limiter in effect that artificially levels the playing field with the try hards and the "hurts to play but i enjoy the game" crowd.
    - better than that give us world tiers so the try hards can do any content with as much sweat and blood as they like but those of us who just want ACCESS to the content can enjoy the game more casually.

    I have a hard time getting excited over this game anymore. Gold road looked great but then I read the patch notes and it's hard to not come to the conclusion that ZOS just doesn't seem to understand their disabled players or care. It makes it hard to play the game. Was excited about infinite archive but again, it's a game that's really only geared towards try hard chads and has a virtual "No entry" sign over it for disabled or more casual players.

    Just my opinion but you already have a ton of activities for the try hards chads and the overland content doesn't offer a lot of value for time like a dungeon or trial.

    I'd love someone at ZOS to address the issue with disabled players directly if they'd be so kind?

    As someone else mentioned arcanist dps literally isn't even changing much at all maybe a tiny bit lower but the changes to status effects almost entirely negates the nerf to beam dmg
    PC NA Server
    @J18696
    Characters
    Pridē - Dragonknight
    Vanıty - Arcanist
  • sharquez
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    Oaken soul lightning staff by the way is still excellent, yes trashpacks die a bit more slowly but you can get around it by using sets like storm cursed, or even that IA set for sorc Monlith of storms instead of stormmaster. (keep sergeants mail obviously)
    At least 3 of each class. PVPing Since IC.
  • RandomKodiak
    RandomKodiak
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    To the OP: Arcanist has received (so far) a very slight nerf which we all knew was coming. Skinnycheeks already has a video out on his Youtube and 4% maybe. As far as disabled friendly I tend to agree and would be glad to try to help if you send me a DM with class(es) and what you need I may be able to come up with some builds for you. I have no muscle memory because of dysgraphia and shaky hands so I run as simple of builds as possible. Please feel free and I hope to hear from you.
  • RandomKodiak
    RandomKodiak
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    P.S. that goes for anyone who could use that type of help. I make no promises but have completed every vet trial in the game with a 2 bar, four skill bow/bow sorc and have other simple builds as well. If you would like some help just DM me here or look for ChaosTBear on PC NA server and send a whisper.
  • CGPsaint
    CGPsaint
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    sharquez wrote: »
    Oaken soul lightning staff by the way is still excellent, yes trashpacks die a bit more slowly but you can get around it by using sets like storm cursed, or even that IA set for sorc Monlith of storms instead of stormmaster. (keep sergeants mail obviously)

    The sorcerer set from IA is a terrible set to flex in for a heavy attack build, as you need to hit multiple enemies with direct damage attacks, and even if you get multiple totems up, enemies can only take damage from 1 totem at a time. The set is honestly only good for deconstruction. Sticking to pairing SM with Noble Duelist, Infallible Aether, Storm Master, etc... and just make sure that you are using your heavy attack on an enemy that you can complete each heavy attack with so that the final tick does it's intended AOE damage. If the enemy dies before the final tick, the AOE component is lost.
    "Some enjoy bringing grief to others. They remind M'aiq of mudcrabs—horrible creatures, with no redeeming qualities."
  • Ezhh
    Ezhh
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    nokturnihs wrote: »
    Some suggestions:
    - Disable mythics in PvP or balance PvE and PvP separately like you should have done years ago.
    - disable light attack weaving altogether by increasing LA cooldowns to 1 second. Alternatively, put a DPS speed limiter in effect that artificially levels the playing field with the try hards and the "hurts to play but i enjoy the game" crowd.
    - better than that give us world tiers so the try hards can do any content with as much sweat and blood as they like but those of us who just want ACCESS to the content can enjoy the game more casually.

    Why would you approach fixing the game for your own enjoyment by taking away things that others enjoy? I have suffered from RSI so I'm very capable of feeling sympathy, and I'm still very mindful of how I position my hands when playing to minimise the risk of triggering it, but I happen to like having access to mythics in PvP, and I like LA weaving in PvE. It might not work for you, but in my case a different keyboard/mouse, and remapping certain in-game actions to different keys went a very long way. Either way, if you want people to be considerate of your enjoyment and ability to progress in the game, it's best to look for an approach that won't damage other people's in turn.

    When you talk about gatekeeping to higher level content, which content is it that you feel blocked from and at what level do you want to take part? There's a big difference between trying to complete earlier vet HM trials and getting Swashbuckler in DSR. Maybe if you explain your goals and how you think the changes will prevent you reaching them, it will be possible for people to give some suggestions to help, but as some have already said, arcanist is not losing much at all and I doubt the changes will lock you out of anything that you can currently do.

  • nokturnihs
    nokturnihs
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    Why would you approach fixing the game for your own enjoyment by taking away things that others enjoy? I have suffered from RSI so I'm very capable of feeling sympathy, and I'm still very mindful of how I position my hands when playing to minimise the risk of triggering it, but I happen to like having access to mythics in PvP, and I like LA weaving in PvE. It might not work for you, but in my case a different keyboard/mouse, and remapping certain in-game actions to different keys went a very long way. Either way, if you want people to be considerate of your enjoyment and ability to progress in the game, it's best to look for an approach that won't damage other people's in turn.
    That was my exact sentiment when oaken soul came out and every try hard demanded ZOS make 1bars bad again and ZOS eventually caved and nerfed quite a number of things related to them, especially HA builds and specifically made storm master something that was significantly harder for uncoordinated types to maintain. I'd love to have the said enjoyment or consideration myself but to answer your question more directly - my biggest preference would be world tiers so the try hards can try as hard as they want and the rest of us can enjoy content at the pace ans enjoyment we prefer. It's absolutely viable as an option, most of the difficult stuff is already part of the core game and it rewards try hards for being try hards without locking out content to those who can't weave, don't wanna dummy jump, or just hate the aesthetic of animation cancelling. With the introduction of customized skills now would be a better time than any to offer a way for people to actually enjoy the visuals of the skills we use rather than forcing the people who want that to forego that part of the game to keep up with community pressures and static DPS checks that are difficult to obtain in some builds, etc.

    Taking into consideration new players who don't even know what meta is or how to achieve it and a large number of older players (age wise) - there's more incentive to do so from a business model than not.

    When you talk about gatekeeping to higher level content, which content is it that you feel blocked from and at what level do you want to take part? There's a big difference between trying to complete earlier vet HM trials and getting Swashbuckler in DSR. Maybe if you explain your goals and how you think the changes will prevent you reaching them, it will be possible for people to give some suggestions to help, but as some have already said, arcanist is not losing much at all and I doubt the changes will lock you out of anything that you can currently do.
    Dude, there's been gatekeeping since launch and it boiled out hard on trials when oaken soul released in a new way. I've seen crews kick people for wearing sets their click didn't approve of, despite that player trying to do things as their role dictated. I've seen gatekeeping of people simply because they were old and women and that wasn't acceptable. I'm glad you're not experiencing that but it's been happening, it is happening and it'll probably continue to happen

    My goal is to simply play, enjoy the content Id like to enjoy and build the way I want to without having other players forcing me into a particular meta or physical function requirement. ZOS Only seems to listen to a specific group of people and those people don't seem to have much consideration of others. HA builds weren't threatening those people but they got them messed up bad despite that. DK seems to only receive buffs despite there being a number of other classes, some of which have been relegated into the toilet for years at a time. There's no balance at all in regards to who's actually playing the game - it's just more pilling on all the things the most vocal (and sometimes spiteful) group wants and every time someone not part of that collective voices an opinion we're mocked, our concerns trivialized, and our actual desire to see everyone enjoying the game we pay for and play is left unfulfilled. It makes people avoid the game. I run/ran a guild but I took a break because of this cycle repeating again and again and it was a long one. Most of my guild mates also stopped playing because of the same issues. At best some of us roll our logins because ZOS doesn't seem to want to offer something for their whole player base, just those mentioned above. It would be frustrating for most people, being disabled and having limitations you just get to deal with doesn't make it easier.

    Other developers have came out and said "we don't want casuals - our game isn't for you." Same with disabled folks in their round-about way. GGG for example. That's fine but PoE isn't a subscription/pay for content business model. ESO is. It would be nice to have ZOS communicate their intentions going forward - is this game going to move further and further away from being an "Everyman" MMORPG or are they actually going to address some things to keep it's broader player base appeal? If they stated one way or another that would be great but this cycle has been ongoing for a long time and, well, I'm not sure why I'm even bothering at this point. Maybe because part of me still WANTS to enjoy ESO.
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    nokturnihs wrote: »
    [...] I've seen crews kick people for wearing sets their click didn't approve of, despite that player trying to do things as their role dictated. I've seen gatekeeping of people simply because they were old and women and that wasn't acceptable [...]

    [...]build the way I want to without having other players forcing me into a particular meta [...]


    Easiest solution would be to join a guild of people that plays the same way, don't you think so? Instead of issuing demands to screw over people who play in another way.
    Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on February 2, 2024 10:43AM
  • FirmamentOfStars
    FirmamentOfStars
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    Heavy attacks do totally fine damage wise. Obviously they are not top notch builds and do top notch dps. But Oakensoul, velothis certainly help out bringing players with issues doing high amount of keyboard strikes to a decent level.

    The current performance of those builds are enough to complete normal and veteran trials, even some HM's easely. same goes for dungeons. Find a group that accepts this playstyle and accomodates/cater to you.

    So my question is why demanding changes to something that is working fine and fulfilling its purpose? Is there a need for you to compete with the top dogs and complete the hardest of challenges? Why should the game be dumbed down to accomodate you, when some content should be hard and only be achieved by a few. That makes some stuff special and makes people to strive for it.

    Sorry for sounding rude, but not every content is for everybody, only the bests should complete the hardest challenges. We do not expect you doing it either same as we do not expect a person in a wheelchair to run as fast as Usain Bolt. Do not try to make the game change for you, but instead accept your limitations and strive for what is possible for you.
  • Braffin
    Braffin
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    Awful and gamebreaking suggestions, OP.

    Nobody is locked out of content, more challenging content like trials already come in several difficulty modes.

    Pick the one you are comfortable with and stop to try worsening the game for others out of pure entitlement.
    Never get between a cat and it's candy!
    ---
    Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.
  • UsualSurrender
    UsualSurrender
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    nokturnihs wrote: »
    So we lost HA builds, most one bar builds aren't viable for trials and the like anymore and arcanist (a disabled friendly class) is getting significant nerfs.

    Considering that this whole premise is untrue, I am not sure how relevant the following suggestions can be.
  • Cayr
    Cayr
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    You're not talking about content being accessible, you're talking about difficulty levels of that content, and they are not the same thing. Content in ESO is accessible - overland + the base difficulty of every instance has been designed to be completable by anyone. You can do any content at Normal difficulty, many instances even on Veteran with off-meta builds, including OakenHA.

    Increased difficulty modes are there to be more difficult and require more effort. Like in any game on the planet. It sucks if you're physically unable to put in that effort, but the game also has people who can and who also want to play and have fun without it being trivial. Equating difficulty levels with content and demanding all of them be accessible or more easily completable "because you paid for it", you're essentially arguing that if you buy any game - like let's say you buy a Call of Duty game - all of the difficulties should be completable by you, because you've paid for it. And that is an absolutely insane take, I'm sorry. Difficulty levels aren't there to be completed by everyone, they're there to be an option for everyone.

    Much like ZOS doesn't want to ruin the game for casual players by increasing the difficulty of Normal-level content because it's too easy for endgame players; you as a casual player also can't demand they ruin it for endgamers under the guise of accessibility. "Disabling LA weaving, to level the playing field" has absolutely nothing to do with content or accessibility anymore, that's a "if I can't do it, no-one should be able to". And that is just petty and vindictive. That makes you no better than people who demand Oaken nerfs. Ruining other people's fun won't actually make the game more fun for you. What makes the game fun is finding a group of like-minded people, making friends, doing the content that you can do and not stressing yourself out over what other people are doing.
    Edited by Cayr on February 2, 2024 2:11PM
  • Ezhh
    Ezhh
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    nokturnihs wrote: »
    That was my exact sentiment when oaken soul came out and every try hard demanded ZOS make 1bars bad again

    I feel like maybe you've had some bad experiences or read some strong opinions on the forum and decided to generalise to all successful players. Most end game players I knew were really happy with oakensoul. Many felt it performed maybe a little bit too well for the effort involved and wanted a slight nerf, but the overall sentiment among players I spend time with was that is was good to give more people more ways to get content done, and that any nerf should not be very strong. I actually completed a Godslayer with an Oakensoul sorc as one of our DDs for example, and no one had issues with it. We even did all oakensorc runs, including an AS trifecta, just for fun.
    nokturnihs wrote: »
    I'd love to have the said enjoyment or consideration myself but to answer your question more directly - my biggest preference would be world tiers

    That's good - and it would be nice if you kept looking for solutions like this instead of asking for things that will take away playstyles from those of us who enjoy them. You will probably get a lot more support that way.

    (Though I am curious what you mean by tiers - doesn't the normal / vet / vet HM / trifecta difference already fit this?)

    If you feel your own wishes didn't get enough consideration among players yet though, then you are probably spending time with the wrong players. I know this is easy for me to say and harder for you to go and do, but have you ever considered making your own group? It can be difficult and time consuming, but that's the ultimate answer to gatekeeping. No one can stop you being the change you want to see when it comes to how players interact and choose to include or not include others in their groups.
    nokturnihs wrote: »
    Dude, there's been gatekeeping since launch and it boiled out hard on trials when oaken soul released in a new way. I've seen crews kick people for wearing sets their click didn't approve of, despite that player trying to do things as their role dictated. I've seen gatekeeping of people simply because they were old and women and that wasn't acceptable. I'm glad you're not experiencing that but it's been happening, it is happening and it'll probably continue to happen

    I've never claimed it doesn't happen, but for me personally, if a group is discriminating based on age or gender, I just go my way and am happy to avoid such people. Mostly, the only reason I see people not included in groups is unwillingness to play the way that group intends to play.
    nokturnihs wrote: »
    My goal is to simply play, enjoy the content Id like to enjoy and build the way I want to without having other players forcing me into a particular meta or physical function requirement.

    Again, this is why you should build your own group.

    Let's say I create a group for the purpose of getting the best possible time in a given trial and you apply to join, but you want to run a non-meta build. If it was just a group for a clear and you showed me you could play the build well enough, it would be fine, but in this case speed matters, so maximum possible dps matters, and so if you tried to join on a non-meta build you would not be meeting the expectation I had set for the group and including you would not be fair on the 11 other people who were meeting that. I'd politely decline you and look elsewhere. There's no point applying as a HA oakensoul user to a group that is advertising for an arcanist parse DD, or for an EC/Spaulder cro. It doesn't fill the need. On the other hand, if you make a group yourself you dictate what that group requires and can include people you want to.
    nokturnihs wrote: »
    ZOS Only seems to listen to a specific group of people and those people don't seem to have much consideration of others. HA builds weren't threatening those people but they got them messed up bad despite that. DK seems to only receive buffs despite there being a number of other classes, some of which have been relegated into the toilet for years at a time. There's no balance at all in regards to who's actually playing the game - it's just more pilling on all the things the most vocal (and sometimes spiteful) group wants and every time someone not part of that collective voices an opinion we're mocked, our concerns trivialized, and our actual desire to see everyone enjoying the game we pay for and play is left unfulfilled. It makes people avoid the game. I run/ran a guild but I took a break because of this cycle repeating again and again and it was a long one. Most of my guild mates also stopped playing because of the same issues. At best some of us roll our logins because ZOS doesn't seem to want to offer something for their whole player base, just those mentioned above. It would be frustrating for most people, being disabled and having limitations you just get to deal with doesn't make it easier.

    I can tell you that most people toward the end game of PvE also don't feel listened to. A lot of us find the current meta boring and unfulfilling and wish we could play on other classes without harming our groups. (As an aside, DK isn't much wanted as a DD outside of support DD these days - I keep seeing people talk like DK is so overpowered, but it's been replaced on most rosters by arcanists - it's not easy to find groups as a DK player now unless you want to play two support sets and have your damage gutted.)

    With all that said, you still didn't specify what level of content you feel blocked from. Once again, looking to complete older HMs on non-meta builds is very different from looking to get into a Swashbuckler group on a non-meta build. But whichever thing you want to try, either looking for guilds that focus on non-meta set ups and prioritise including people, or creating your own group, are probably going to be the way to go.
  • Jammy420
    Jammy420
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    They made shields easier to use, they destroyed blast bones to make combat easier, they made nightblade 100 times easier to use, the list is quite long as to what they are doing to accomodate people who do not want, or cannot use fast paced combat, I for the life of me cannot see what they could still do, aside from making your character play themself.
  • Jammy420
    Jammy420
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    CGPsaint wrote: »
    There's many kinds of disabled, I cannot even imagine a logical place to start.

    It's difficult to have a starting place at all when some many tryhards immediately break out the pitchforks and torches any time someone starts making suggestions for making the game accessible to anyone not dummy humping 24/7 whilst maintaining perfect rotations on meta builds. There is legitimately zero tolerance in this community for anyone who can't use a standard 2-bar build and light attack weave.

    Lmao, I have no meta builds, and have never once used a dummy, and I only play the game every six months or so, and I can tell you with certainty the game is 100 percent being catered to casuals now. If I, someone with bad vision, multiple arythmias, and rheumatism can still light attack weave and do perfect rotations, then so can you.
  • CGPsaint
    CGPsaint
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    Jammy420 wrote: »
    CGPsaint wrote: »
    There's many kinds of disabled, I cannot even imagine a logical place to start.

    It's difficult to have a starting place at all when some many tryhards immediately break out the pitchforks and torches any time someone starts making suggestions for making the game accessible to anyone not dummy humping 24/7 whilst maintaining perfect rotations on meta builds. There is legitimately zero tolerance in this community for anyone who can't use a standard 2-bar build and light attack weave.

    Lmao, I have no meta builds, and have never once used a dummy, and I only play the game every six months or so, and I can tell you with certainty the game is 100 percent being catered to casuals now. If I, someone with bad vision, multiple arythmias, and rheumatism can still light attack weave and do perfect rotations, then so can you.

    I never said that I couldn't use a standard 2-bar build, with light attack weaving, etc. I simply stated that this community has zero tolerance for anyone who cannot do so. While you may feel that ZOS is catering to casuals, the community definitely isn't.

    "Some enjoy bringing grief to others. They remind M'aiq of mudcrabs—horrible creatures, with no redeeming qualities."
  • Braffin
    Braffin
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    CGPsaint wrote: »
    Jammy420 wrote: »
    CGPsaint wrote: »
    There's many kinds of disabled, I cannot even imagine a logical place to start.

    It's difficult to have a starting place at all when some many tryhards immediately break out the pitchforks and torches any time someone starts making suggestions for making the game accessible to anyone not dummy humping 24/7 whilst maintaining perfect rotations on meta builds. There is legitimately zero tolerance in this community for anyone who can't use a standard 2-bar build and light attack weave.

    Lmao, I have no meta builds, and have never once used a dummy, and I only play the game every six months or so, and I can tell you with certainty the game is 100 percent being catered to casuals now. If I, someone with bad vision, multiple arythmias, and rheumatism can still light attack weave and do perfect rotations, then so can you.

    I never said that I couldn't use a standard 2-bar build, with light attack weaving, etc. I simply stated that this community has zero tolerance for anyone who cannot do so. While you may feel that ZOS is catering to casuals, the community definitely isn't.

    The player you responded to is as much part of the community as those, which "feel" they aren't tolerated by, well, once again the "community". And I agree with their statement, also as part of this community.

    Nobody is currently forced to LA weave to experience all content, thanks to various difficulty modes. The only part of the game without difficulty options is overland, which is defaulted at the easiest settings imaginable.

    Demanding one-button-builds without resource management and tank-resistances to be as effective as more complicated builds isn't a discussion about tolerance or disabilities but one about cheesing and entitlement.
    Never get between a cat and it's candy!
    ---
    Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.
  • CameraBeardThePirate
    CameraBeardThePirate
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    CGPsaint wrote: »
    Jammy420 wrote: »
    CGPsaint wrote: »
    There's many kinds of disabled, I cannot even imagine a logical place to start.

    It's difficult to have a starting place at all when some many tryhards immediately break out the pitchforks and torches any time someone starts making suggestions for making the game accessible to anyone not dummy humping 24/7 whilst maintaining perfect rotations on meta builds. There is legitimately zero tolerance in this community for anyone who can't use a standard 2-bar build and light attack weave.

    Lmao, I have no meta builds, and have never once used a dummy, and I only play the game every six months or so, and I can tell you with certainty the game is 100 percent being catered to casuals now. If I, someone with bad vision, multiple arythmias, and rheumatism can still light attack weave and do perfect rotations, then so can you.

    I never said that I couldn't use a standard 2-bar build, with light attack weaving, etc. I simply stated that this community has zero tolerance for anyone who cannot do so. While you may feel that ZOS is catering to casuals, the community definitely isn't.

    But that's just not true.

    The vast majority of players do not care what type of build you run.

    You're taking the opinion of a vocal minority and attributing that opinion to the entire game.

    Most endgame players are extremely accommodating. If you find players that aren't, simply look elsewhere. There's a plethora of communities and guilds that couldn't care less what type of build you run.
  • RaptorRodeoGod
    RaptorRodeoGod
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    Something I occasionally do to make things easier is to slot Inner Light/Camo Hunter and Hircine's Rage on both bars. That way, you don't need to worry about Prophecy/Savagery and Brutality/Sorcery.

    The new blastbones change simplifies necro rotation if you choose to use it. It basically enables Venom Skull spam. I was rocking that with Deadly Cloak, Skeletal Archer, Barbed Trap, and Detonating Siphon, which all have the same cooldown of 20 seconds, and most of those skills move around with you.
    Give all classes access to a Scribing skill that works like Arcanist beam.
    ---
    Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 10 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. Make a self debuff mythic. Literally anything at this point.
  • nokturnihs
    nokturnihs
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    Jammy420 wrote: »

    Lmao, I have no meta builds, and have never once used a dummy, and I only play the game every six months or so, and I can tell you with certainty the game is 100 percent being catered to casuals now. If I, someone with bad vision, multiple arythmias, and rheumatism can still light attack weave and do perfect rotations, then so can you.

    Good for you. Are you aware bad vision is very different from other kinds of disabilities? My disability is related to my nervous system and CNS, causes my extremities to lose most feeling, spasticity, artificial weakness (bad signals) and turns every signal my body receives into pain signals due to small fiber degeneration. Pain medications don't work, muscle relaxants don't work and other common treatments legal and otherwise don't work. The best I can get is going on medications that would dull my senses further and my mind. Frankly speaking and despite the large barrage of hateful/hurtful comments, I know most those people couldn't do what I do - life and try to make the best out of life. Most of those people would maybe curl up and give up because of what it takes to just function during the day. I play games to distract my mind from my daily state of being. The most rewarding periods of ESO for me were when I was able to reach that content I wasn't able to before with oaken soul. I got into some trials because i finally met the DPS requirements and then the toxic types started kicking booting 1 bar people.

    I'm sure the moderator is gonna snip or just delete this reply because God forbid we snipe back but the biggest problem with this game is the player base and those of you in the forums who are just nasty to be nasty or satisfy your own sense of superiority. When Oaken soul first came out the builds weren't hurting anyone else. Maybe in PVP but that's it. It wasn't hurting these people that I'm hitting one button or two buttons or however many it happened to be it mattered that they didn't like other people getting close to what they could reach. Not exceed, come close.

    So some of you have been "why you attacking the way I play, try and ruin it for everyone" - same. Why'd you attack the way we played, ruined it for everyone? How does it impact you other than challenge your ego? In order for me to voice ANY requests for changes to make the game more accessible to people I need to deal with all the hate from comments like some of yours, so tell me - how do I send feedback to ZOS without being told I'm a liar, a worthless piece of trash, a bad player and all the other colorful character assassinations you guys love to employ? It's obviously possible - you got your way with HA, oaken soul and don't tell me the downgrade wasn't significant because it was. I'm not an idiot and did a parse or two and it changed a lot. I never was gonna be able to hit the numbers some YouTubers or normal folks could reach but that's ok.

    I'm apparently wasting my time here. It's not worth the barrage of hostility from people that would probably eat a bullet after a single day of dealing with my every day, and I've been dealing with this for 15 years and got about 30 to go.
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