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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/653550/

The burst heal from Sorcerer's Conjured Ward and its morphs needs to be value capped

StaticWave
StaticWave
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Giving Conjured Ward a burst heal was a nice change but the value needs to be capped. On PTS magsorcs are stacking upwards of 60k max magicka to get an 8k heal tooltip on top of a 13k Hardened Ward size. That's too strong and singlehandedly makes it the best defensive skill in the game, even with the Minor/Major Defile change on PTS. Please consider capping the heal value to 50k max magicka.
Platform:
PC NA

Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc

  • Jsmalls
    Jsmalls
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    Would second this or change the heal to scale from weapon/spell damage so that stacking magicka isn't too strong (this would also give Sorcs the ability to stack spell damage instead of magicka trading off shield size for a larger heal).

    Stacking magicka with the 10% buff from the passive makes this entirely too strong for PvP.

    With bastion CP star my ward is tooltipping for 16.5k and my heal can get as high as 9k crits. 25k effective health for a spammable is too strong.

    Maybe even consider changing it to a DOT heal versus a burst heal.
    Edited by Jsmalls on February 1, 2024 5:10AM
  • JerBearESO
    JerBearESO
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    Isn't it easier to cap it according to max hp, like the shield?
  • Turtle_Bot
    Turtle_Bot
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    Curious on what is traded off for this, as with 30k health/30k mag with sets into damage/sustain (not just pure mag stacking) I was getting an 8-9k ward and 5k heal (in PvP, with no defile) which seemed in a good spot, not broken, but not underpowered either.

    So if it needs adjusting, it should be adjusted, but I also definitely don't want the entire scaling being re-adjusted as that would ruin it for non max mag stacking sorcs (and stam/healthsorcs too).
  • JonnytheKing
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    StaticWave wrote: »
    Giving Conjured Ward a burst heal was a nice change but the value needs to be capped. On PTS magsorcs are stacking upwards of 60k max magicka to get an 8k heal tooltip on top of a 13k Hardened Ward size. That's too strong and singlehandedly makes it the best defensive skill in the game, even with the Minor/Major Defile change on PTS. Please consider capping the heal value to 50k max magicka.

    i think your not seeing the big picture here, u have to give a lot up to get to 60k magic,
    TWITCH jtk__gaming
    GM of Elder-Skills DC PVP Guild NA
    Main Toons
    MagSorc
    MagTemp
  • StaticWave
    StaticWave
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    Turtle_Bot wrote: »
    Curious on what is traded off for this, as with 30k health/30k mag with sets into damage/sustain (not just pure mag stacking) I was getting an 8-9k ward and 5k heal (in PvP, with no defile) which seemed in a good spot, not broken, but not underpowered either.

    So if it needs adjusting, it should be adjusted, but I also definitely don't want the entire scaling being re-adjusted as that would ruin it for non max mag stacking sorcs (and stam/healthsorcs too).
    JerBearESO wrote: »
    Isn't it easier to cap it according to max hp, like the shield?

    This is what I run on the live server. On PTS I specced towards max mag instead.

    vj1yrtuascyz.png

    With Bastion, my ward tooltip is almost 20k with a 5.7k heal tooltip at 37.7k max mag:

    kq3vl0qub9dk.png

    That equates to around a 2.5k non crit heal and around 4k crit heal. Enough to get out of execute range when spammed, but not so much that you can use it simultaneously as a burst heal and a burst prevention.

    It's builds with 55k, 60k, or even 70k max mag that turns this ability into an actual burst heal with 15k+ ward size and 10k heal tooltip. Those builds are too strong and warrant a heal cap on this ability.


    Edited by StaticWave on February 1, 2024 6:07AM
    Platform:
    PC NA

    Main:
    Static Wave - AD stamsorc

  • SIow
    SIow
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    This is wrong it’s not realistic to stack 60k max mag and be survivable in open world, changing this skill would make new players struggle, the skill is fine as is. I hope new Eso players get a chance to use this amazing skill to improve their experience on the game.
  • Alchimiste1
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    StaticWave wrote: »
    Turtle_Bot wrote: »
    Curious on what is traded off for this, as with 30k health/30k mag with sets into damage/sustain (not just pure mag stacking) I was getting an 8-9k ward and 5k heal (in PvP, with no defile) which seemed in a good spot, not broken, but not underpowered either.

    So if it needs adjusting, it should be adjusted, but I also definitely don't want the entire scaling being re-adjusted as that would ruin it for non max mag stacking sorcs (and stam/healthsorcs too).
    JerBearESO wrote: »
    Isn't it easier to cap it according to max hp, like the shield?

    This is what I run on the live server. On PTS I specced towards max mag instead.

    vj1yrtuascyz.png

    With Bastion, my ward tooltip is almost 20k with a 5.7k heal tooltip at 37.7k max mag:

    kq3vl0qub9dk.png

    That equates to around a 2.5k non crit heal and around 4k crit heal. Enough to get out of execute range when spammed, but not so much that you can use it simultaneously as a burst heal and a burst prevention.

    It's builds with 55k, 60k, or even 70k max mag that turns this ability into an actual burst heal with 15k+ ward size and 10k heal tooltip. Those builds are too strong and warrant a heal cap on this ability.


    Something isn't adding up here static. with 38k max mag there is no way you have a 20k ish shield.
    Edited by Alchimiste1 on February 1, 2024 6:46AM
  • StaticWave
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    StaticWave wrote: »
    Turtle_Bot wrote: »
    Curious on what is traded off for this, as with 30k health/30k mag with sets into damage/sustain (not just pure mag stacking) I was getting an 8-9k ward and 5k heal (in PvP, with no defile) which seemed in a good spot, not broken, but not underpowered either.

    So if it needs adjusting, it should be adjusted, but I also definitely don't want the entire scaling being re-adjusted as that would ruin it for non max mag stacking sorcs (and stam/healthsorcs too).
    JerBearESO wrote: »
    Isn't it easier to cap it according to max hp, like the shield?

    This is what I run on the live server. On PTS I specced towards max mag instead.

    vj1yrtuascyz.png

    With Bastion, my ward tooltip is almost 20k with a 5.7k heal tooltip at 37.7k max mag:

    kq3vl0qub9dk.png

    That equates to around a 2.5k non crit heal and around 4k crit heal. Enough to get out of execute range when spammed, but not so much that you can use it simultaneously as a burst heal and a burst prevention.

    It's builds with 55k, 60k, or even 70k max mag that turns this ability into an actual burst heal with 15k+ ward size and 10k heal tooltip. Those builds are too strong and warrant a heal cap on this ability.


    Something is adding up here static. with 38k max mag there is no way you have a 20k ish shield.

    Sorry that was outside of PvP lol. Almost 10k shield with battle spirit
    Platform:
    PC NA

    Main:
    Static Wave - AD stamsorc

  • SIow
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    Also that shield strength is halfed in pvp
  • StarOfElyon
    StarOfElyon
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    StaticWave wrote: »
    Giving Conjured Ward a burst heal was a nice change but the value needs to be capped. On PTS magsorcs are stacking upwards of 60k max magicka to get an 8k heal tooltip on top of a 13k Hardened Ward size. That's too strong and singlehandedly makes it the best defensive skill in the game, even with the Minor/Major Defile change on PTS. Please consider capping the heal value to 50k max magicka.

    I want this to be balanced of course but man I am so looking forward to dropping rapid regen (tired of other people taking my heal).
  • Turtle_Bot
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    StaticWave wrote: »
    StaticWave wrote: »
    Turtle_Bot wrote: »
    Curious on what is traded off for this, as with 30k health/30k mag with sets into damage/sustain (not just pure mag stacking) I was getting an 8-9k ward and 5k heal (in PvP, with no defile) which seemed in a good spot, not broken, but not underpowered either.

    So if it needs adjusting, it should be adjusted, but I also definitely don't want the entire scaling being re-adjusted as that would ruin it for non max mag stacking sorcs (and stam/healthsorcs too).
    JerBearESO wrote: »
    Isn't it easier to cap it according to max hp, like the shield?

    This is what I run on the live server. On PTS I specced towards max mag instead.

    vj1yrtuascyz.png

    With Bastion, my ward tooltip is almost 20k with a 5.7k heal tooltip at 37.7k max mag:

    kq3vl0qub9dk.png

    That equates to around a 2.5k non crit heal and around 4k crit heal. Enough to get out of execute range when spammed, but not so much that you can use it simultaneously as a burst heal and a burst prevention.

    It's builds with 55k, 60k, or even 70k max mag that turns this ability into an actual burst heal with 15k+ ward size and 10k heal tooltip. Those builds are too strong and warrant a heal cap on this ability.


    Something is adding up here static. with 38k max mag there is no way you have a 20k ish shield.

    Sorry that was outside of PvP lol. Almost 10k shield with battle spirit

    hmm, that better aligns with my testing on the PTS, which actually seemed much more balanced as its equivalent to a 15k burst heal which all classes will have access to on a stat based PvP build (outside of polar specifically).
    Edited by Turtle_Bot on February 1, 2024 7:21AM
  • SIow
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    Hardened ward too op whilst arc has a bigger shield, bigger heal, at least 44k health, off gcd health based heal that gives cc immunity, passives that make it tankier and endless sustain
  • Turtle_Bot
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    Just did a quick test, 64k max magicka with literally everything put into maxing mag (CP, enchants, jewelry traits, attributes, sets, mythic, food, mundus, etc).

    The heal was 6k non crit, 9.5k crit heal fully buffed with vitality from vibrant shroud.

    The downsides to running this much max mag though were:
    - Recoveries were absolutely horrible, 1.5k mag recovery 750 stam recovery when buffed.
    - Base Pen was bad, at sub 5k and no minor breach
    - Spell damage was horrendous, 3.5k fully buffed (with continuous)
    - Mitigation was very low due to all the light armor pieces being slotted. 24k physical armor, 28k spell armor back bar is not tanky by any means and that was putting as much as possible into gaining armor without losing any magicka.
    - Crit damage is non-existent, yes I get more frequent crits due to inner light on front bar, but the bonus damage they deal is non-existent, it's literally just the base crit damage.
    - The kill potential is limited to when I have meteor up making it extremely predictable. If it is dealing any damage, it is purely carried by ele sus and the status effect changes.
    - No access to proc sets, buffing sets or defensive sets. The build is limited to what the skills can do and has nothing else.
    - No front/back bar setup. ancient grace somewhat reduces this trade off being a 3 piece set that allows the build to run chudan and DDF, but it still has to be ran on both bars and it doesn't have armor pieces so you can't even run an arena weapon on 1 bar.

    Honestly, what makes it strong is the size of the shield with that much mag, not the heal itself. The size of the shield is really being carried though by the change to expert summoner giving the additional 10% bonus to max mag, this is roughly 5-6k max mag when invested entirely into max mag. (Just tested this out and slotting a pet to lose the max mag from expert summoner drops the shield size by about 10%).

    As for how to balance it, I'm not sure. Maybe revert the change to shield caps done in U37, but also make them scale slightly faster up until they reach the cap (something like caps at 11k in PvP (22k outside of PvP), but reaches that cap at 35-40k max mag instead of reaching it at 50k max mag). This way the shields will still be useful for sorcs that don't stack everything into max mag, but it reins in the power that can be reached by fully committing into max mag?

    Also, from my testing, I'm not sure 70k mag is possible without emp buff, I had everything into max mag and wasn't even close (roughly 10% short). Even a single stat food for max mag only instead of sugar skulls would be 65k mag fully buffed and health would be 22-25k (depending DDF stacks active or not) making for a stupidly squishy build and the ward and heal would be capped out at 11k ward and 2-3k heal. Bi-stat foods were less than 1k mag more than sugar skulls and the stam drop was big.

    It is strong, but unlike polar spam, it is self cast only, so it cannot be abused in groups. I think more testing needs to happen on this before committing to any big changes as it realistically will likely only need very small adjustments (tweaks) and we all know how rare those are when changes are made to things during the PTS cycle.
  • StaticWave
    StaticWave
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    StaticWave wrote: »
    Giving Conjured Ward a burst heal was a nice change but the value needs to be capped. On PTS magsorcs are stacking upwards of 60k max magicka to get an 8k heal tooltip on top of a 13k Hardened Ward size. That's too strong and singlehandedly makes it the best defensive skill in the game, even with the Minor/Major Defile change on PTS. Please consider capping the heal value to 50k max magicka.

    i think your not seeing the big picture here, u have to give a lot up to get to 60k magic,

    You won' be affected if you don't stack 60k max mag.

    FYI, here are screenshots of 2 builds and Ward size + heal tooltip in PvP:

    1) Crafty + Rally Cry + DDF + Chudan, all regen glyphs:

    mtajo78f47ji.png

    2) Wretched + Rally + DDF + Chudan, all spell dmg glyphs:

    51mqpag305ms.png


    Crafty build has 48.5k max mag and Wretched build has 41k max mag. Slightly more sustain on Wretched build, but less damage than Crafty.

    12.7k ward and 7.3k heal with 48.5k max mag, no Focused Mending CP or near a keep.
    Platform:
    PC NA

    Main:
    Static Wave - AD stamsorc

  • bar_boss_A
    bar_boss_A
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    yeah nothing to write home about. Seems like it is in a good spot
  • Turtle_Bot
    Turtle_Bot
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    StaticWave wrote: »
    StaticWave wrote: »
    Giving Conjured Ward a burst heal was a nice change but the value needs to be capped. On PTS magsorcs are stacking upwards of 60k max magicka to get an 8k heal tooltip on top of a 13k Hardened Ward size. That's too strong and singlehandedly makes it the best defensive skill in the game, even with the Minor/Major Defile change on PTS. Please consider capping the heal value to 50k max magicka.

    i think your not seeing the big picture here, u have to give a lot up to get to 60k magic,

    You won' be affected if you don't stack 60k max mag.

    FYI, here are screenshots of 2 builds and Ward size + heal tooltip in PvP:

    1) Crafty + Rally Cry + DDF + Chudan, all regen glyphs:

    mtajo78f47ji.png

    2) Wretched + Rally + DDF + Chudan, all spell dmg glyphs:

    51mqpag305ms.png


    Crafty build has 48.5k max mag and Wretched build has 41k max mag. Slightly more sustain on Wretched build, but less damage than Crafty.

    12.7k ward and 7.3k heal with 48.5k max mag, no Focused Mending CP or near a keep.

    Something to note, at least it was like this when I was testing it on the PTS before, the tooltip for the heal doesn't actually change its value to account for battle spirit when you enter a PvP instance while the tooltips for the shield value does actually change.
    The actual healing done is still halved by battle spirit though, so the heals from your 2 tooltips shown here would be 3.5k and 3k non crit heals respectively on top of the 13/11k shields respectively, which is 100% within tolerances for a balanced burst heal equivalent.
  • StaticWave
    StaticWave
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    Turtle_Bot wrote: »
    StaticWave wrote: »
    StaticWave wrote: »
    Giving Conjured Ward a burst heal was a nice change but the value needs to be capped. On PTS magsorcs are stacking upwards of 60k max magicka to get an 8k heal tooltip on top of a 13k Hardened Ward size. That's too strong and singlehandedly makes it the best defensive skill in the game, even with the Minor/Major Defile change on PTS. Please consider capping the heal value to 50k max magicka.

    i think your not seeing the big picture here, u have to give a lot up to get to 60k magic,

    You won' be affected if you don't stack 60k max mag.

    FYI, here are screenshots of 2 builds and Ward size + heal tooltip in PvP:

    1) Crafty + Rally Cry + DDF + Chudan, all regen glyphs:

    mtajo78f47ji.png

    2) Wretched + Rally + DDF + Chudan, all spell dmg glyphs:

    51mqpag305ms.png


    Crafty build has 48.5k max mag and Wretched build has 41k max mag. Slightly more sustain on Wretched build, but less damage than Crafty.

    12.7k ward and 7.3k heal with 48.5k max mag, no Focused Mending CP or near a keep.

    Something to note, at least it was like this when I was testing it on the PTS before, the tooltip for the heal doesn't actually change its value to account for battle spirit when you enter a PvP instance while the tooltips for the shield value does actually change.
    The actual healing done is still halved by battle spirit though, so the heals from your 2 tooltips shown here would be 3.5k and 3k non crit heals respectively on top of the 13/11k shields respectively, which is 100% within tolerances for a balanced burst heal equivalent.

    Yea, my concern was mostly for the builds that stack higher max mag.

    While I have yet to test those builds for myself, others have and their experience was the class becomes really hard to kill once you stack over 55k max mag. In the screenshot I had 48k max mag and the heal value is around 7.3k, so I would believe that a 55k max mag build could achieve around 8.5-9k heal tooltip, which is just slightly less than Encase heal. That would be a 4k-4.5k non crit heal and 8k-8.5k crit heal in PvP, which is pretty strong when stacked with a 13-14k ward. It removes the weakness of Sorc completely and not something I look forward to fighting against.

    Platform:
    PC NA

    Main:
    Static Wave - AD stamsorc

  • Turtle_Bot
    Turtle_Bot
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    StaticWave wrote: »
    Turtle_Bot wrote: »
    StaticWave wrote: »
    StaticWave wrote: »
    Giving Conjured Ward a burst heal was a nice change but the value needs to be capped. On PTS magsorcs are stacking upwards of 60k max magicka to get an 8k heal tooltip on top of a 13k Hardened Ward size. That's too strong and singlehandedly makes it the best defensive skill in the game, even with the Minor/Major Defile change on PTS. Please consider capping the heal value to 50k max magicka.

    i think your not seeing the big picture here, u have to give a lot up to get to 60k magic,

    You won' be affected if you don't stack 60k max mag.

    FYI, here are screenshots of 2 builds and Ward size + heal tooltip in PvP:

    1) Crafty + Rally Cry + DDF + Chudan, all regen glyphs:

    mtajo78f47ji.png

    2) Wretched + Rally + DDF + Chudan, all spell dmg glyphs:

    51mqpag305ms.png


    Crafty build has 48.5k max mag and Wretched build has 41k max mag. Slightly more sustain on Wretched build, but less damage than Crafty.

    12.7k ward and 7.3k heal with 48.5k max mag, no Focused Mending CP or near a keep.

    Something to note, at least it was like this when I was testing it on the PTS before, the tooltip for the heal doesn't actually change its value to account for battle spirit when you enter a PvP instance while the tooltips for the shield value does actually change.
    The actual healing done is still halved by battle spirit though, so the heals from your 2 tooltips shown here would be 3.5k and 3k non crit heals respectively on top of the 13/11k shields respectively, which is 100% within tolerances for a balanced burst heal equivalent.

    Yea, my concern was mostly for the builds that stack higher max mag.

    While I have yet to test those builds for myself, others have and their experience was the class becomes really hard to kill once you stack over 55k max mag. In the screenshot I had 48k max mag and the heal value is around 7.3k, so I would believe that a 55k max mag build could achieve around 8.5-9k heal tooltip, which is just slightly less than Encase heal. That would be a 4k-4.5k non crit heal and 8k-8.5k crit heal in PvP, which is pretty strong when stacked with a 13-14k ward. It removes the weakness of Sorc completely and not something I look forward to fighting against.

    yeah, I understand the concern, like I said, maybe some small tweaks to the shields cap size for those extreme cases is warranted, but like I (and others) have stated, I really don't want to see yet another case of a potentially good fix for sorc completely gutted before it ever makes it out of the PTS server. (Small adjustments please ZOS).
  • StarOfElyon
    StarOfElyon
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    Heavy attack builds don't need much resources so that might be a concern. But it's hard for me to let that get in the way of having a good burst heal that can't be interrupted on my bow sorc. It's so tempting. 😂
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
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    Turtle_Bot wrote: »
    StaticWave wrote: »
    StaticWave wrote: »
    Giving Conjured Ward a burst heal was a nice change but the value needs to be capped. On PTS magsorcs are stacking upwards of 60k max magicka to get an 8k heal tooltip on top of a 13k Hardened Ward size. That's too strong and singlehandedly makes it the best defensive skill in the game, even with the Minor/Major Defile change on PTS. Please consider capping the heal value to 50k max magicka.

    i think your not seeing the big picture here, u have to give a lot up to get to 60k magic,

    You won' be affected if you don't stack 60k max mag.

    FYI, here are screenshots of 2 builds and Ward size + heal tooltip in PvP:

    1) Crafty + Rally Cry + DDF + Chudan, all regen glyphs:

    mtajo78f47ji.png

    2) Wretched + Rally + DDF + Chudan, all spell dmg glyphs:

    51mqpag305ms.png


    Crafty build has 48.5k max mag and Wretched build has 41k max mag. Slightly more sustain on Wretched build, but less damage than Crafty.

    12.7k ward and 7.3k heal with 48.5k max mag, no Focused Mending CP or near a keep.
    The actual healing done is still halved by battle spirit though, so the heals from your 2 tooltips shown here would be 3.5k and 3k non crit heals respectively on top of the 13/11k shields respectively, which is 100% within tolerances for a balanced burst heal equivalent.

    Yeah I really don't see the problem here. The shield can't crit, the heal can, but it will be a lower original value in comparison to any other burst heal that can crit. Benefit being the Sorc can use the shield proactively.

    We have sets like Dragon's Appetite giving a free 10k heal every 5s when the main draw of the set is the damage bonus to your ticks, but for a skill it's suddenly too powerful?

    Time will tell, for now it seems balanced, I don't see most builds going 60k+ Mag and if they do, they've got a pretty weak HP pool, pen, or crit chance so it's not like it was free to obtain.

    I think most people will go the 30-40k HP route, which means the burst heal will be pretty minimal to begin with.
    Edited by MashmalloMan on February 1, 2024 1:38PM
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • StaticWave
    StaticWave
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    Turtle_Bot wrote: »
    StaticWave wrote: »
    StaticWave wrote: »
    Giving Conjured Ward a burst heal was a nice change but the value needs to be capped. On PTS magsorcs are stacking upwards of 60k max magicka to get an 8k heal tooltip on top of a 13k Hardened Ward size. That's too strong and singlehandedly makes it the best defensive skill in the game, even with the Minor/Major Defile change on PTS. Please consider capping the heal value to 50k max magicka.

    i think your not seeing the big picture here, u have to give a lot up to get to 60k magic,

    You won' be affected if you don't stack 60k max mag.

    FYI, here are screenshots of 2 builds and Ward size + heal tooltip in PvP:

    1) Crafty + Rally Cry + DDF + Chudan, all regen glyphs:

    mtajo78f47ji.png

    2) Wretched + Rally + DDF + Chudan, all spell dmg glyphs:

    51mqpag305ms.png


    Crafty build has 48.5k max mag and Wretched build has 41k max mag. Slightly more sustain on Wretched build, but less damage than Crafty.

    12.7k ward and 7.3k heal with 48.5k max mag, no Focused Mending CP or near a keep.
    The actual healing done is still halved by battle spirit though, so the heals from your 2 tooltips shown here would be 3.5k and 3k non crit heals respectively on top of the 13/11k shields respectively, which is 100% within tolerances for a balanced burst heal equivalent.

    Yeah I really don't see the problem here. The shield can't crit, the heal can, but it will be a lower original value in comparison to any other burst heal that can crit. Benefit being the Sorc can use the shield proactively.

    We have sets like Dragon's Appetite giving a free 10k heal every 5s when the main draw of the set is the damage bonus to your ticks, but for a skill it's suddenly too powerful?

    Time will tell, for now it seems balanced, I don't see most builds going 60k+ Mag and if they do, they've got a pretty weak HP pool, pen, or crit chance so it's not like it was free to obtain.

    I think most people will go the 30-40k HP route, which means the burst heal will be pretty minimal to begin with.

    60k is for the extreme builds, but 50k+ is already doable, as demonstrated in my screenshot above. In that screenshot I had 48k+ max mag in crafty/rallying cry, and could pump it to 52k with the mage mundus and another piece of arcane trait. At 48k max mag the tool tip for the heal is at 7.3k, so at 52k mag it would be around 8k. That’s the almost the same tooltip value as Dark Deal, which can crit for 8k.

    I am ok with the heal tooltip around 5-6k, but when it reached 7-8k then it becomes a problem.
    Edited by StaticWave on February 1, 2024 2:03PM
    Platform:
    PC NA

    Main:
    Static Wave - AD stamsorc

  • StaticWave
    StaticWave
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    Turtle_Bot wrote: »
    StaticWave wrote: »
    StaticWave wrote: »
    Giving Conjured Ward a burst heal was a nice change but the value needs to be capped. On PTS magsorcs are stacking upwards of 60k max magicka to get an 8k heal tooltip on top of a 13k Hardened Ward size. That's too strong and singlehandedly makes it the best defensive skill in the game, even with the Minor/Major Defile change on PTS. Please consider capping the heal value to 50k max magicka.

    i think your not seeing the big picture here, u have to give a lot up to get to 60k magic,

    You won' be affected if you don't stack 60k max mag.

    FYI, here are screenshots of 2 builds and Ward size + heal tooltip in PvP:

    1) Crafty + Rally Cry + DDF + Chudan, all regen glyphs:

    mtajo78f47ji.png

    2) Wretched + Rally + DDF + Chudan, all spell dmg glyphs:

    51mqpag305ms.png


    Crafty build has 48.5k max mag and Wretched build has 41k max mag. Slightly more sustain on Wretched build, but less damage than Crafty.

    12.7k ward and 7.3k heal with 48.5k max mag, no Focused Mending CP or near a keep.
    The actual healing done is still halved by battle spirit though, so the heals from your 2 tooltips shown here would be 3.5k and 3k non crit heals respectively on top of the 13/11k shields respectively, which is 100% within tolerances for a balanced burst heal equivalent.

    Yeah I really don't see the problem here. The shield can't crit, the heal can, but it will be a lower original value in comparison to any other burst heal that can crit. Benefit being the Sorc can use the shield proactively.

    We have sets like Dragon's Appetite giving a free 10k heal every 5s when the main draw of the set is the damage bonus to your ticks, but for a skill it's suddenly too powerful?

    Time will tell, for now it seems balanced, I don't see most builds going 60k+ Mag and if they do, they've got a pretty weak HP pool, pen, or crit chance so it's not like it was free to obtain.

    I think most people will go the 30-40k HP route, which means the burst heal will be pretty minimal to begin with.

    I also don’t think it’s a fair comparison at all to justify Hardened Ward’s heal at high max mag because other burst heals can crit more.

    We have to consider the fact that the shield provides a different value in addition to the burst heal. Take my 48k max mag build example above. That’s a 12.7k shield + 7.3k heal before battle spirit, so ~20k “heal”. Under battle spirit, the heal is halved, so total “heal” value is still ~16k. The heal can crit for 5-5.5k, so total heal value is almost 18k. A normal burst heal can maybe crit for 15k before requiring other heal modifiers like being near a keep. This change alone makes shield better than a conventional burst heal because the total value of using the shield exceeds a normal burst heal.

    When you factor in things like Focused Mending CP (which can push the heal tooltip towards 9-10k) and blocking, this shield change is even stronger. The shield can now soak up unblockable damage such as DoTs, and the burst heal when stacked with 50k+ max mag, allows you to block heal as well. It’s way better than a conventional burst heal.

    This is at least my findings on the PTS after dueling players. Time will tell though, but for the mean time I think a value cap should be considered.
    Edited by StaticWave on February 1, 2024 2:19PM
    Platform:
    PC NA

    Main:
    Static Wave - AD stamsorc

  • CameraBeardThePirate
    CameraBeardThePirate
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    It's wild that they took the most OP part of Arcanist's kit (Impervious), removed the crux requirement, and slapped it on Mag Sorc with mag scaling.

    At least Arcs have to stack health and have 3 crux to make Impervious busted.
  • TechMaybeHic
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    Dejavu all over again with sorc shields. Appreciate Statics transparency knowing it's their main class
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
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    It's wild that they took the most OP part of Arcanist's kit (Impervious), removed the crux requirement, and slapped it on Mag Sorc with mag scaling.

    At least Arcs have to stack health and have 3 crux to make Impervious busted.

    They're not exactly 1:1.

    Impervious Runeward has 2 shields + the heal that stacks based on crux spent (also deals magic damage to an attacker and Arc has a shield scaling passive). I'd have to see 2 builds optimized for their versions of the shield, but based on the tooltip alone, Impervious looks like it scales the heal and upfront shield higher, with the 2nd shield lower. Obviously they have to go for health instead of mag, but that has its own pro's/con's.

    Based on what @Turtle_Bot showed, the 65k mag build they attempted had terrible sustain, crit, and pen. I feel like they would constantly be running away or heavy attacking, with very little actual kill potential.

    I think what will happen is more well rounded builds like Static showed, but they're still giving up some of the most broken sets right now to do it.

    Idk, I don't play mag Sorc in pvp or ESO lately at all to comment properly, I just find it hard to believe a 3-5k heal proc is going to make a gigantic difference when Sorc has been complaining about shields being outdated for 5 years? I'd like some Mag Sorc mains to comment on it.
    Edited by MashmalloMan on February 1, 2024 2:53PM
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • katorga
    katorga
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    It is capped.

    Conjured Ward: This ability and the Hardened Ward morph will now heal you for 15% of your Max Health or Magicka (whichever is higher) if no pets were shielded by the abilities.

    Regenerative Ward (morph): This morph now also heals you for 10% of your Max Health or Magicka, regardless of if a pet was affected by the shield or not.

    No different from any other heal that has an arbitrary cap as opposed to just scaling from damage/resource like normal skills.

  • StaticWave
    StaticWave
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    katorga wrote: »
    It is capped.

    Conjured Ward: This ability and the Hardened Ward morph will now heal you for 15% of your Max Health or Magicka (whichever is higher) if no pets were shielded by the abilities.

    Regenerative Ward (morph): This morph now also heals you for 10% of your Max Health or Magicka, regardless of if a pet was affected by the shield or not.

    No different from any other heal that has an arbitrary cap as opposed to just scaling from damage/resource like normal skills.

    Not capped enough, especially with new sorc passive giving 10% mag.

    With 50k mag which is easy to get next patch, Hardened Ward becomes an actual burst heal on top of a 13k ward. It’s too strong imo.
    Platform:
    PC NA

    Main:
    Static Wave - AD stamsorc

  • katorga
    katorga
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    It's wild that they took the most OP part of Arcanist's kit (Impervious), removed the crux requirement, and slapped it on Mag Sorc with mag scaling.

    At least Arcs have to stack health and have 3 crux to make Impervious busted.

    Stacking health is the smart play. And it will be the smart play for sorcerers as well.

  • Jsmalls
    Jsmalls
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    I think @StaticWave is underselling it...

    With over 60k magicka and bastion I have over a 16k ward and up to a 9k crit heal. That's 25k effective health....

    I am a Mag Sorc main and in combat my stats look like:

    62k magicka, 4k spell damage, 15k pen (with major breach), 35% crit chance, 2000 of each recovery. My crit damage is low but not many good options to bring that up with a staff (could go shadow but meh).

    In a 1v1 I generally have no sustain issues and group play with synergies I definitely don't.

    I can stalemate a fight if I choose and only really dying if I try to push the kill or am careless.
    Edited by Jsmalls on February 1, 2024 7:07PM
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