PvE Nightblade, Purpose (2024)

Zodiarkslayer · February 6

Major Vulnerability on Mark Target would make Necromancers not completely obsolete, but largely obsolescent.

😈 I like it. 😈

Cominfordatoothbrush · February 6

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

-snip-

speaking only for myself but as someone who does minmax my builds and runs I want classes to bring unique group buffs AND have competitive DPS with each other

take sorc for example, you want at least one in group for major berserk, but also it is the top single target class. you don't feel like you're attending the trial solely to provide one buff by being there.

and yes, I of course also want nightblades to have class skills suitable to tanking and healing. not so much for tanking but luckily it's in a decent spot for healing. worth noting on the buffs point nightblade heal/tank does already provide minor vuln too, it's just usually not necessary because you'll usually have a warden and/or cro that provides it more easily. the assassin theme I think is already very well filled out for overland and pvp, maybe too much so from the sound of pvpers opinions

I'm sorry but major vuln imo is not only just too powerful of a buff to apply that easily, it doesn't solve at all the issue that nightblade on its own will be the worst dps class in U41. even IF nightblade gets some over powered group buff/debuff, it needs to be able to function on its own as something other than a buff slot that bottom parses every fight

Avran_Sylt · February 6

Cominfordatoothbrush wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

-snip-

speaking only for myself but as someone who does minmax my builds and runs I want classes to bring unique group buffs AND have competitive DPS with each other

take sorc for example, you want at least one in group for major berserk, but also it is the top single target class. you don't feel like you're attending the trial solely to provide one buff by being there.

and yes, I of course also want nightblades to have class skills suitable to tanking and healing. not so much for tanking but luckily it's in a decent spot for healing. worth noting on the buffs point nightblade heal/tank does already provide minor vuln too, it's just usually not necessary because you'll usually have a warden and/or cro that provides it more easily. the assassin theme I think is already very well filled out for overland and pvp, maybe too much so from the sound of pvpers opinions

I'm sorry but major vuln imo is not only just too powerful of a buff to apply that easily, it doesn't solve at all the issue that nightblade on its own will be the worst dps class in U41. even IF nightblade gets some over powered group buff/debuff, it needs to be able to function on its own as something other than a buff slot that bottom parses every fight

Which is where the undecided
"Attacking the flank of a Marked Target grants (some kind) of damage boost and consumes the Mark. (DPS)"
Suggestion could come in.

Could shift the 20% damage dealt from Death Stroke to that.
Could make it so "Attacking the Flank of a Marked Target adds [x] Weapon/Spell damage to your attacks and abilities (and does not consume the Mark)"

If Minor Savagery is too small of a unique buff for you to consider for min-maxing Trial DPS once NB is brought in line I don't know what to tell you.

KS_Amt38 · February 6

Cleave! Cleave! Cleave!

PvE is all about Cleave dmg and NB doesn't have any good AoE dmg skills.

Cominfordatoothbrush · February 6

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Which is where the undecided
"Attacking the flank of a Marked Target grants (some kind) of damage boost and consumes the Mark. (DPS)"
Suggestion could come in

I admittedly missed this quoted part, so my bad there, it is a decent idea. altho I do think the ult should keep its increased damage.

As for savagery you may have misread my post. I'm not saying it's not enough, I'm saying major vuln would be TOO much. like the group buff/debuffs are fine, what it needs is simply more DPS for itself

hypnoticbeast · February 15

autocookies wrote: »

I am 100% for this change to Mark Target. This should not offer anything when the target dies but add a debuff to an enemy that is group wide the entire duration of the skill. Not major vul as that would kill any necro's chance of joining a trial. Not major berserk ether as a sorcerer needs a chance of joining the group. Needs to be something else.

and drum roll please! As this is the most important part: No matter what the red lightning visual effect must be active the entire duration of the buff!

I agree completely. What about an alternative approach? Have it run Minor Berserk for all players within 12 meters. At four or more player is gets upgraded to Major Berserk for all players with 12 meters. Now should this be a monster only skill. Also, Lotus just needs a 10% bump to base DPS and Minor Vulnerability should run for those whole length of the skill and you will be in the right spot. Do a comparison of the highest DOTs and see if my numbers are off. Swallow Soul Needs to be a CLEAVE cone shape attack that increases the damage per the number targets (MAX 3) and increase the Crit chance (FOR THE SKILL) when dealing with one target and yes give it at least a 10% bump to base damage it is way to weak. This will give the class some room to move around in case they get overwhelmed and mesh great with the classes single target greatness. Now I don't know what that would do with the Soul Cleaver set bonus. Nore, do I care. 80% of the NB player base won't hunt it down for anything other than the Motifs so meh I say.

Galeriano · February 15

Major vulnerability on mark target is a horrible idea. Messes up both PvE and PvP.

IncultaWolf · February 15

A better change would be major slayer on mark target instead, that way it would not destroy pvp balance more

Tyrant_Tim · February 15

It’s literally a single target skill, with a limitation of one target total; it would change nothing other than pushing Nightblade further into it’s designated role as a single target class, as every trial with group split-off mechanics would see both Vulnerability on the main boss, and whatever mini needs to be focused.

Tyrant_Tim · February 15

Major Slayer instead could be a great compromise, but either way, Mark Target needs to be reworked to increase the group’s damage when attacking the marked target.

My only concern with Major Slayer is that it would make RoJo redundant, as there’s no range limitation on Roaring Opportunist, meaning that your group healer can still hit broke-off groupmates going after priority targets, and if Major Vulnerability lands on Mark Target, what skill are Nightblades going to take off in PvP to slot it? Where are they going to get their Major Breach?

I’m proposing a swap of Breach for Vulnerability. That’s my bad, I wasn’t clear enough on my stance with Nightblade’s over-performance in PvP in the second post in this thread, let me edit the OP, that way if anyone else skips over all of the comments again, they won’t make me repeat myself.

In PvE, one of your other 7 DDs can throw on Elemental Drain or Razor Caltrops to compensate.

hypnoticbeast · February 18

Major Breach reduces both Physical and Spell Resistance by 59481. To understand this reduction in percentage, let’s break it down:

Damage Mitigation Cap: The maximum damage mitigation achievable through Armor and Spell Resistance alone is 50%2. Beyond this point, additional resistance does not further reduce damage.
Resist Calculation: The formula for calculating the percentage mitigation is:
% Mitigation = (Armor or Spell Resistance) / (Level * 10)
At Level 50, the estimated amount of Armor or Spell Resistance required to reach the 50% mitigation cap is approximately 33,0002.
Major Breach Effect: Since Major Breach reduces both Physical and Spell Resistance by 5948, we can calculate the percentage reduction as follows:
Percentage Reduction = (5948 / 33,000) × 100% ≈ 18%
Therefore, Major Breach roughly reduces damage resistance by about 18%. Keep in mind that this is an approximation, and other factors (such as additional buffs or debuffs) may influence the actual damage mitigation in combat.

You want to replace the above debuff with one that does 8% LESS? How would that help anyone else but a Night Blade? If you have it changed to Major Vulnerability every NB out there will dust off two things that they have in Moth ball right now and start terrorizing Cyrodill to no end with them. They are Crushing weapon and Night Mothers Gaze. One is a spamable and the other is an automatic Major Breach. Both with Major Vulnerability included would give a NB an unprecedented 28% damage bonus on a player AT ALL TIMES. Now if they use Night Mother with Ambush? Add another 10% for the minor Berserk and Vulnerability that will get stacked on that as well. If this where a Monsters only skill it would fix a LOT of DPS issues the blade is having in PVE. If you put this in PVP you will have to fight scores of auto breaching and MJ VULN debuffs that the healers will not have enough magika to cleans all the time. Also this skill would add 10% more (To the NB) with the Major Berserk proc after with the Reaper's Mark Morph. That is why an addition of Minor Berserk scaling to Major Berserk would bring the damage up to the above number to 22% (Minor) for solo play and the full 28% (Major) for group. That way it "Helps" in Solo AND Group without overpowering an already terrified PVP player base. Otherwise the skill would only be used IN PVP for the above reasons and there would be nothing in PVP but NB vamps running around and dropping anyone and everyone with lethal precision and laughing the while they do it.

Turtle_Bot · February 18

w002exp wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

adding major vuln, one of the most valuable debuffs in the game, to an easy to upkeep skill is madness.
that's a ult level debuff. it's not just that it's too strong for the NB kit, but it devalues other classes and sets.
it would be like adding major berserk for 10 seconds to a random skill ... oh wait.

sorc and blade single target should be a solid 10% to 15% above dk and arcanist. they have the weakest cleave, it should be factored in.

Also the Major Berserk condition on Piercing Target is a bit underwhelming but I think it would have strong PvP utility if everyone on your team got the Major Berserk so long as that team mate attacked the marked target within the 5-10 seconds or so. That would make an interesting PvP dynamic where the NB is marking targets for focus and the team is being rewarded for team work with a strong buff to use on next target.

Hard NO! to group wide major berserk on Mark Target.

I'm all for buffing NB in PvE, but NOT if it is going to take sorcs final niche in PvE.

The devs have already stolen too much of sorcs identity (and far, far too many things sorcs have been asking for, for years) and just given it to NB without being asked over the past few years, most notably in mobility, crit chance access, healing and utility options.

This patch they are even copying sorcs dark deal and crit surge abilities and combining them into a single ability (siphoning attacks rework) that has removed all of the downsides those 2 sorc abilities had (dark deal having a cast time and only getting 1 resource back, crit surge having potential downtime and only proccing off critical strikes).
And the cost for getting both those abilities in 1 with downsides removed are?
- reduced healing over time values (more than made up for by having permanent uptime on that healing over time and its guaranteed healing since its any damage, not just critical damage).
- it costs health instead of resources (with the healing NB gets not only from this rework, but in general this is a non-factor and this cost can be mitigated by casting it once every 10s instead of every gcd and NB gets both resources back which is more important in the current hybrid meta we are in).

Once again, I want to see NB buffed for PvE, but stealing the ONLY remaining reason to bring a sorc at all into group content (group wide major berserk) and putting it on an easier to use ability (non-ultimate), is just NOT the way to do that and never should have even been suggested given ZOS's track record on taking things sorcs have/asked for and giving it to NB instead.

hypnoticbeast · February 18

First things first. Sorcs have been GIVEN more from the NB skill line in the last four years then any other class. NB once had Minor Sorcery to balance the Minor Savagery that they GAVE to everyone. Some in the Sorc camp cried and cried that "This was not fair that an assassin could have minor Sorcery, but a "Mage" did not." So the NB Spell Crit chance was put on the alter for the Sorc class to have minor Sorcery. There by rendering ALL ranged MAG Blades to the bow. (which was a skill line not fully fixed to accommodate that fact for 2 years) Then the Sorc said...WE WANT MORE. So crit damge was killed. Oh the Devs said it was to "fix Crit damage for the good of the whole game" then spent the next 4 updates Nerfing every skill of merit the NB had while buffing every other class Sorc most of all. Any sort of CLEAVE was taken out along with their main passive and execute being "tweaked" every 90 days. The bleed damage boost for daggers was fun (It was ONLY for daggers and like 3%) until the Wardens started in and said THAT was not fair. (For the Assassin class? To have a buff to bleed with Daggers? Unfair?) And you know what caused it? People complaining about class "Identity". Now the Sorc can have Minor Berserk AND Minor Force? There by cutting out Trap and replacing it for any ranged DOT. Yes the NB have minor berserk but it's locked into a PVP skill that is useless in a group setting and the skill in question (Ambush) needs to have the Minor Berserk taken out and replaced with a bleed dot. But the CRIT CLASS can't have Minor Force? Ok so the spell crit CHANCE I can get. They are the "MAGES" after all. But the Minor Crit damage? NOPE HARD PASS that was way to far for the Devs to go with giving Minor force to the Sorc, way to far. Now the NB has a bunch of DPS mitigation skills no one use. And anything and everything the NB have been give now is to BALANCE OUT the way too much juice that the Sorc now have. See the Sorc can use Major and Minor Berserk along with Min Force WITHOUT some stupid "skill recipe" to proc it. That is 15% raw dps with 10% Crit damage ready at the wave of a hand. With NO Build or BAR set up use MajorB. And do you know why? Class Identity. But the NB can't make a target Bleed with the same Daggers they are shown with at Character creation. All because someone's Cliff strider was offended. Next the NB can no longer Empower themselves with the shadows they wield (Magickly I might add) because you know..."Mages". All of their best skills are MAGIC one's to boot. This means the NB can NOT use the shadows magically for any kind of DPS empowerment. Because again, Mages. And the best IDEA the devs had with this class (Bleed on daggers) they killed after three months two years ago. How about this. The Sorc gives up Minor force and we put it somewhere on the NB. The new changes to the Syphon attacks need a DPS buff and since the sorc used it so well it showed the devs where they can put it. Where it belongs with the NB. The "Crit" Class. I think it's only fair in the Vein of CLASS IDENTITY that Dark Deal LOSE Minor Force and a dual resource be added since you can have both Major and Minor Berserk at any time you want it. Again with no bar or skill set up. And I would love to see WHERE the NB class has stolen anything from the Sorc. It's sounds like you are complaining about skills that the NB have had since day one. More Crit chance access? Sorc's all have Minor Sorcery now. So a Magblade can't use a staff anymore, there for a Sorc is NEEDED for a Staff Magblade to get full crit chance. That helps them how? And mobility? Do You mean CW? That has been there for at least 4 years to my memory. So that argument is dead. And Healing has been a main Wheelhouse skill of the NB from day one and heal for more then any other class by volume. So that argument is dead too. And what is this about Utility? Are we talking about InCap? That 20% bonus has to be worked up to and has a very short timer. The sorc pets alone give that bonus worth of damage ALL the time. God I would love to have MajorB on Veil of Blades. Maybe we should do that. Give the NB's Longest DOT at 15 seconds and base 1438 magic damage per tic and MajorB. How about that? No? Ok then. Maybe we give the NB Minor Force and the sorc a fancy dual resource skill. (A NB skill I might add and would be one more skill the Sorc has stolen from the NB) And have the Devs give back the dagger bleed bonus and we call it a day. Also Dark Deal did not get it's DPS buff until 2-3 updates ago. That skill is more related to the junky one in the Mages skill line then to anything the NB had. If anything, the use of any kind of BLOOD or SHADOW MAGIC is in the NB wheelhouse not the other way around. Thus the devs are not Copying anything. If anything they are fixing an error that is about to get out of hand like Update 38. So please learn the class you are speaking out against BEFORE you do so.

w002exp · February 18

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

w002exp wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

adding major vuln, one of the most valuable debuffs in the game, to an easy to upkeep skill is madness.
that's a ult level debuff. it's not just that it's too strong for the NB kit, but it devalues other classes and sets.
it would be like adding major berserk for 10 seconds to a random skill ... oh wait.

sorc and blade single target should be a solid 10% to 15% above dk and arcanist. they have the weakest cleave, it should be factored in.

Also the Major Berserk condition on Piercing Target is a bit underwhelming but I think it would have strong PvP utility if everyone on your team got the Major Berserk so long as that team mate attacked the marked target within the 5-10 seconds or so. That would make an interesting PvP dynamic where the NB is marking targets for focus and the team is being rewarded for team work with a strong buff to use on next target.

Hard NO! to group wide major berserk on Mark Target.

I'm all for buffing NB in PvE, but NOT if it is going to take sorcs final niche in PvE.

The devs have already stolen too much of sorcs identity (and far, far too many things sorcs have been asking for, for years) and just given it to NB without being asked over the past few years, most notably in mobility, crit chance access, healing and utility options.

This patch they are even copying sorcs dark deal and crit surge abilities and combining them into a single ability (siphoning attacks rework) that has removed all of the downsides those 2 sorc abilities had (dark deal having a cast time and only getting 1 resource back, crit surge having potential downtime and only proccing off critical strikes).
And the cost for getting both those abilities in 1 with downsides removed are?
- reduced healing over time values (more than made up for by having permanent uptime on that healing over time and its guaranteed healing since its any damage, not just critical damage).
- it costs health instead of resources (with the healing NB gets not only from this rework, but in general this is a non-factor and this cost can be mitigated by casting it once every 10s instead of every gcd and NB gets both resources back which is more important in the current hybrid meta we are in).

Once again, I want to see NB buffed for PvE, but stealing the ONLY remaining reason to bring a sorc at all into group content (group wide major berserk) and putting it on an easier to use ability (non-ultimate), is just NOT the way to do that and never should have even been suggested given ZOS's track record on taking things sorcs have/asked for and giving it to NB instead.

It wouldn't replace the sorc in PVE. It wouldn't even be useful in PVE. The Major Berserk in mark target is only available after the marked target dies. So.... If you think group wide major berserk after the trial boss is dead is useful I guess you might feel threatened but most people would think the storm atro that you can actually use during the trial boss would probably be a better choice.

It would really only be useful in team fights in PvP to provide some group utility. Anywhere else it would have a marginal benefit.

Galeriano · February 18

hypnoticbeast wrote: »

Major Breach reduces both Physical and Spell Resistance by 59481. To understand this reduction in percentage, let’s break it down:

Damage Mitigation Cap: The maximum damage mitigation achievable through Armor and Spell Resistance alone is 50%2. Beyond this point, additional resistance does not further reduce damage.
Resist Calculation: The formula for calculating the percentage mitigation is:
% Mitigation = (Armor or Spell Resistance) / (Level * 10)
At Level 50, the estimated amount of Armor or Spell Resistance required to reach the 50% mitigation cap is approximately 33,0002.
Major Breach Effect: Since Major Breach reduces both Physical and Spell Resistance by 5948, we can calculate the percentage reduction as follows:
Percentage Reduction = (5948 / 33,000) × 100% ≈ 18%
Therefore, Major Breach roughly reduces damage resistance by about 18%. Keep in mind that this is an approximation, and other factors (such as additional buffs or debuffs) may influence the actual damage mitigation in combat.

You want to replace the above debuff with one that does 8% LESS? How would that help anyone else but a Night Blade? If you have it changed to Major Vulnerability every NB out there will dust off two things that they have in Moth ball right now and start terrorizing Cyrodill to no end with them. They are Crushing weapon and Night Mothers Gaze. One is a spamable and the other is an automatic Major Breach. Both with Major Vulnerability included would give a NB an unprecedented 28% damage bonus on a player AT ALL TIMES. Now if they use Night Mother with Ambush? Add another 10% for the minor Berserk and Vulnerability that will get stacked on that as well. If this where a Monsters only skill it would fix a LOT of DPS issues the blade is having in PVE. If you put this in PVP you will have to fight scores of auto breaching and MJ VULN debuffs that the healers will not have enough magika to cleans all the time. Also this skill would add 10% more (To the NB) with the Major Berserk proc after with the Reaper's Mark Morph. That is why an addition of Minor Berserk scaling to Major Berserk would bring the damage up to the above number to 22% (Minor) for solo play and the full 28% (Major) for group. That way it "Helps" in Solo AND Group without overpowering an already terrified PVP player base. Otherwise the skill would only be used IN PVP for the above reasons and there would be nothing in PVP but NB vamps running around and dropping anyone and everyone with lethal precision and laughing the while they do it.

Your math is completly off.

You don't use the formula You provided.

% Mitigation = (Armor or Spell Resistance) / (Level * 10)

That means 5948/660 (66 levels*10)=9

And if You would like to do it how You did it above You need to take that 18% and multiply it by 0,5 because 33k resistances gives You 50% dmg reduction so 5,9k resists is 18% out of that 50% dmg reduction meaning 9%.

Turtle_Bot · February 18

w002exp wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

w002exp wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

adding major vuln, one of the most valuable debuffs in the game, to an easy to upkeep skill is madness.
that's a ult level debuff. it's not just that it's too strong for the NB kit, but it devalues other classes and sets.
it would be like adding major berserk for 10 seconds to a random skill ... oh wait.

sorc and blade single target should be a solid 10% to 15% above dk and arcanist. they have the weakest cleave, it should be factored in.

Also the Major Berserk condition on Piercing Target is a bit underwhelming but I think it would have strong PvP utility if everyone on your team got the Major Berserk so long as that team mate attacked the marked target within the 5-10 seconds or so. That would make an interesting PvP dynamic where the NB is marking targets for focus and the team is being rewarded for team work with a strong buff to use on next target.

Hard NO! to group wide major berserk on Mark Target.

I'm all for buffing NB in PvE, but NOT if it is going to take sorcs final niche in PvE.

The devs have already stolen too much of sorcs identity (and far, far too many things sorcs have been asking for, for years) and just given it to NB without being asked over the past few years, most notably in mobility, crit chance access, healing and utility options.

This patch they are even copying sorcs dark deal and crit surge abilities and combining them into a single ability (siphoning attacks rework) that has removed all of the downsides those 2 sorc abilities had (dark deal having a cast time and only getting 1 resource back, crit surge having potential downtime and only proccing off critical strikes).
And the cost for getting both those abilities in 1 with downsides removed are?
- reduced healing over time values (more than made up for by having permanent uptime on that healing over time and its guaranteed healing since its any damage, not just critical damage).
- it costs health instead of resources (with the healing NB gets not only from this rework, but in general this is a non-factor and this cost can be mitigated by casting it once every 10s instead of every gcd and NB gets both resources back which is more important in the current hybrid meta we are in).

Once again, I want to see NB buffed for PvE, but stealing the ONLY remaining reason to bring a sorc at all into group content (group wide major berserk) and putting it on an easier to use ability (non-ultimate), is just NOT the way to do that and never should have even been suggested given ZOS's track record on taking things sorcs have/asked for and giving it to NB instead.

It wouldn't replace the sorc in PVE. It wouldn't even be useful in PVE. The Major Berserk in mark target is only available after the marked target dies. So.... If you think group wide major berserk after the trial boss is dead is useful I guess you might feel threatened but most people would think the storm atro that you can actually use during the trial boss would probably be a better choice.

It would really only be useful in team fights in PvP to provide some group utility. Anywhere else it would have a marginal benefit.

The way it was written sounded like it was just going to simply grant major berserk to anyone that attacks the marked target while it was active. It would also technically still tread on sorcs niche, even with its current functionality, since the NB would only need to mark an add (can be the weakest of the adds that's almost about to die) and the group gets free major berserk to then continue to hit the boss with. Since almost every boss encounter in the game has some form of adds to clear, this would be very, very easy to maintain this buff with a 100% uptime unless it had an unnecessarily short (1-2s) duration.

Looking at it based on this new context though, if this is the case where it's going to keep its current functionality of requiring the target to be killed, why make the change at all then? Seems completely pointless and another buff to NB for PvP where it definitely does NOT need one.

How about something like this instead:
- Instead of giving group wide major berserk to Mark Target when the marked enemy dies, why not change Veil of Blades to give group wide Major Slayer on cast to the caster and allies for its duration instead of Major Protection, give it a cast range (25m?) have it deal direct bleed damage to enemies in its AoE each second instead of magic damage over time.

- It fits thematically as does the damage type change from magic to bleed (with blades being for slaying things and being known to cut things and make them bleed).
- It reinforces the different roles of the 2 morphs, 1 for DPS the other is for tank/heal/support.
- It also grants a source of bleed damage for hemorrhaging stacks which is another DoT (this is why its direct damage each second instead of being DoT damage for its duration to give a higher base chance to proc this status effect).
- It also gives PvEblades their own rare group buff for PvE DPS while not treading on sorcs berserk synergy from atro, giving a reason to bring NB DD along in groups since supports no longer need to provide major slayer via sets and can slot something else instead.
- It also gives NB some much needed cleave for PvE since it's sustained AoE direct damage over a duration.
- It also keeps it from being OP in PvP since being a ground based ability with a PvE exclusive buff you can simply walk/roll out of it.

Zastrix · February 18

Do NOT give NB group buffs! That's just going to force the NB healer spec even more. NBs should get selfish buffs to buff their OWN damage. Having group buffs is going to remove even more NB DDs from trials.

hypnoticbeast · February 19

Galeriano wrote: »

hypnoticbeast wrote: »

Major Breach reduces both Physical and Spell Resistance by 59481. To understand this reduction in percentage, let’s break it down:

Damage Mitigation Cap: The maximum damage mitigation achievable through Armor and Spell Resistance alone is 50%2. Beyond this point, additional resistance does not further reduce damage.
Resist Calculation: The formula for calculating the percentage mitigation is:
% Mitigation = (Armor or Spell Resistance) / (Level * 10)
At Level 50, the estimated amount of Armor or Spell Resistance required to reach the 50% mitigation cap is approximately 33,0002.
Major Breach Effect: Since Major Breach reduces both Physical and Spell Resistance by 5948, we can calculate the percentage reduction as follows:
Percentage Reduction = (5948 / 33,000) × 100% ≈ 18%
Therefore, Major Breach roughly reduces damage resistance by about 18%. Keep in mind that this is an approximation, and other factors (such as additional buffs or debuffs) may influence the actual damage mitigation in combat.

You want to replace the above debuff with one that does 8% LESS? How would that help anyone else but a Night Blade? If you have it changed to Major Vulnerability every NB out there will dust off two things that they have in Moth ball right now and start terrorizing Cyrodill to no end with them. They are Crushing weapon and Night Mothers Gaze. One is a spamable and the other is an automatic Major Breach. Both with Major Vulnerability included would give a NB an unprecedented 28% damage bonus on a player AT ALL TIMES. Now if they use Night Mother with Ambush? Add another 10% for the minor Berserk and Vulnerability that will get stacked on that as well. If this where a Monsters only skill it would fix a LOT of DPS issues the blade is having in PVE. If you put this in PVP you will have to fight scores of auto breaching and MJ VULN debuffs that the healers will not have enough magika to cleans all the time. Also this skill would add 10% more (To the NB) with the Major Berserk proc after with the Reaper's Mark Morph. That is why an addition of Minor Berserk scaling to Major Berserk would bring the damage up to the above number to 22% (Minor) for solo play and the full 28% (Major) for group. That way it "Helps" in Solo AND Group without overpowering an already terrified PVP player base. Otherwise the skill would only be used IN PVP for the above reasons and there would be nothing in PVP but NB vamps running around and dropping anyone and everyone with lethal precision and laughing the while they do it.

Your math is completly off.

You don't use the formula You provided.

% Mitigation = (Armor or Spell Resistance) / (Level * 10)

That means 5948/660 (66 levels*10)=9

And if You would like to do it how You did it above You need to take that 18% and multiply it by 0,5 because 33k resistances gives You 50% dmg reduction so 5,9k resists is 18% out of that 50% dmg reduction meaning 9%.

Dude where are you getting this 66 levels from. This is calculated at Level 50 WITHOUT CP. So the estimated amount of Armor or Spell Resistance required to reach the 50% mitigation cap is approximately 33,0002. So no CP points. This is base level 50. Anything changes after that is do to CP. Therefore, Major Breach roughly reduces damage resistance by about 18%. "Keep in mind that this is an approximation, and other factors (such as additional buffs or debuffs) may influence the actual damage mitigation in combat." This formula has been here as long as the game has as far as I know. Look it up. You can not use CP to calculate that math. The above is on every build sight out there check ALCAST his might still be up. Hack the Minitour has one as well. The number can go down but it wont go passed 18%.

"You need to take that 18% and multiply it by 0,5 because 33k resistances gives You 50% dmg reduction."

Yes, BUT you need the Base number to get the approximate amount. Otherwise your CP buff's and debuff's will shift the numbers off. % Mitigation = (Armor or Spell Resistance) / (Level * 10) At Level 50. This is a Bace 10 equation not a base 5. You do ANY math with a 0.5 and every answer you get will be half if it is a base 10 system.

hypnoticbeast · February 19

Zastrix wrote: »

Do NOT give NB group buffs! That's just going to force the NB healer spec even more. NBs should get selfish buffs to buff their OWN damage. Having group buffs is going to remove even more NB DDs from trials.

Oh God PLEAS GIVE US MORE GROUP STUFF. We are not being used as DD anymore. I don't want to stay as a Vamp just to get the 400 w/s p that the Devs shaved off of that class. I am just saying that some of these skills could do with some changes to fix that issue. Such a Power Extraction. I think it great the "PLAYER can get Minor Courage." But should they Really? Why can't they pass it to others too? And why not the Player getting MajorC with a full stack of 6. If they can heal that way maybe they should buff that way too. I mean the team would not have to stay close to any kind of a circle or in it for that matter. Just fire it off with the trash and everyone is buffed and the bookworms and save their skill for the bosses. And what about the heal? Why just a heal? Why not a shield or armor buff to go with it? The devs need to take out the Major Brut/Sorc from that skill and put in a dot or in Syphoning attacks. So long as there are toons with a sharp pointy thing in their hands there will AWAYS be a call for the Blade. So don't fret about it we need this bad. What do you think of Swallow Soul being a Cone attack that increases raw damage with the more targets you hit (Trash) and increase in Crit Chance with the LESS targets you have (Boss). There by giving the Blade both a CLEAVE and a second spam that is worth something. Also with the amount of Shadow Tanks I am seeing now days the NB could use some time at the front of the pack. It's not like we can't take a hit. (Runs with BOTH resolves and protections) It's not like we are in need of a healer. (Top healer by Volume) And we boost every dagger, sword, mace, and bow's, Crit chance and give recourses with healing to the stack. All they are missing is a group shield/amor buff or group DPS buff and they are all set.

Galeriano · February 19

hypnoticbeast wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

hypnoticbeast wrote: »

Major Breach reduces both Physical and Spell Resistance by 59481. To understand this reduction in percentage, let’s break it down:

Damage Mitigation Cap: The maximum damage mitigation achievable through Armor and Spell Resistance alone is 50%2. Beyond this point, additional resistance does not further reduce damage.
Resist Calculation: The formula for calculating the percentage mitigation is:
% Mitigation = (Armor or Spell Resistance) / (Level * 10)
At Level 50, the estimated amount of Armor or Spell Resistance required to reach the 50% mitigation cap is approximately 33,0002.
Major Breach Effect: Since Major Breach reduces both Physical and Spell Resistance by 5948, we can calculate the percentage reduction as follows:
Percentage Reduction = (5948 / 33,000) × 100% ≈ 18%
Therefore, Major Breach roughly reduces damage resistance by about 18%. Keep in mind that this is an approximation, and other factors (such as additional buffs or debuffs) may influence the actual damage mitigation in combat.

You want to replace the above debuff with one that does 8% LESS? How would that help anyone else but a Night Blade? If you have it changed to Major Vulnerability every NB out there will dust off two things that they have in Moth ball right now and start terrorizing Cyrodill to no end with them. They are Crushing weapon and Night Mothers Gaze. One is a spamable and the other is an automatic Major Breach. Both with Major Vulnerability included would give a NB an unprecedented 28% damage bonus on a player AT ALL TIMES. Now if they use Night Mother with Ambush? Add another 10% for the minor Berserk and Vulnerability that will get stacked on that as well. If this where a Monsters only skill it would fix a LOT of DPS issues the blade is having in PVE. If you put this in PVP you will have to fight scores of auto breaching and MJ VULN debuffs that the healers will not have enough magika to cleans all the time. Also this skill would add 10% more (To the NB) with the Major Berserk proc after with the Reaper's Mark Morph. That is why an addition of Minor Berserk scaling to Major Berserk would bring the damage up to the above number to 22% (Minor) for solo play and the full 28% (Major) for group. That way it "Helps" in Solo AND Group without overpowering an already terrified PVP player base. Otherwise the skill would only be used IN PVP for the above reasons and there would be nothing in PVP but NB vamps running around and dropping anyone and everyone with lethal precision and laughing the while they do it.

Your math is completly off.

You don't use the formula You provided.

% Mitigation = (Armor or Spell Resistance) / (Level * 10)

That means 5948/660 (66 levels*10)=9

And if You would like to do it how You did it above You need to take that 18% and multiply it by 0,5 because 33k resistances gives You 50% dmg reduction so 5,9k resists is 18% out of that 50% dmg reduction meaning 9%.

Dude where are you getting this 66 levels from. This is calculated at Level 50 WITHOUT CP. So the estimated amount of Armor or Spell Resistance required to reach the 50% mitigation cap is approximately 33,0002. So no CP points. This is base level 50. Anything changes after that is do to CP. Therefore, Major Breach roughly reduces damage resistance by about 18%. "Keep in mind that this is an approximation, and other factors (such as additional buffs or debuffs) may influence the actual damage mitigation in combat." This formula has been here as long as the game has as far as I know. Look it up. You can not use CP to calculate that math. The above is on every build sight out there check ALCAST his might still be up. Hack the Minitour has one as well. The number can go down but it wont go passed 18%.

"You need to take that 18% and multiply it by 0,5 because 33k resistances gives You 50% dmg reduction."

Yes, BUT you need the Base number to get the approximate amount. Otherwise your CP buff's and debuff's will shift the numbers off. % Mitigation = (Armor or Spell Resistance) / (Level * 10) At Level 50. This is a Bace 10 equation not a base 5. You do ANY math with a 0.5 and every answer you get will be half if it is a base 10 system.

50 base levels and 16 veteran ranks equals for 66 levels. Veteran ranks were part of old leveling system that was later turned into just 160 CP system but all calculations still use the same formula. Basically every 10 CPs up to CP 160 counts as additional level in the formula. There is even 66 points for leveling Your character as a leftover after old leveling system where every regular level and veteran rank was granting You one skill point.

You are still making a fundamental mistake in Your math. If 33k resistances is 50% dmg reduction that 5,9k cannot be 18% dmg reduction. if 5,9k would be 18% than 11,8k would be 36% and 17,7k would be 54% so already more than 33k should give and 33k with Your math would be giving 100% dmg reduction.

Drako_Ei · February 20

I disagree.

Giving classes unique buffs/debuffs will only make it so now a group requires 1 nightblade but no more.

Kinda like the Zenkosh, the EC-Cro, but every other dps HAS to be arcanist.

BronzeCaiman · February 21

Mark Target has always been a bad skill, I think it should have a unique armor debuff like Crystal Weapon, or have a general damage taken increase of anywhere from 5% to 8% to monsters only, but with a 10 second uptime and only on 1 morph.

Alternatively they could make it function as a cleave enabling skill, making 10% to 20% of the damage dealt to the marked target deal damage around them, similar to Executioner from 2h but affecting all damage dealt to the target.

DarkSoul6789 · February 21

Drako_Ei wrote: »

I disagree.

Giving classes unique buffs/debuffs will only make it so now a group requires 1 nightblade but no more.

Kinda like the Zenkosh, the EC-Cro, but every other dps HAS to be arcanist.

Better than 0 nightblades - arcanist beam just invalidating half the roster is not good.

ZDunlain · February 24

Purpose?

ELDER NIGHTBLADE ONLINE

I restarted the statistics a month ago and those are the charts, nightblades everywhere.

BlueRaven · February 24

ZDunlain wrote: »

Purpose?

ELDER NIGHTBLADE ONLINE

I restarted the statistics a month ago and those are the charts, nightblades everywhere.

What does any of that have to do with PvE?

ZDunlain · February 24

BlueRaven wrote: »

ZDunlain wrote: »

Purpose?

ELDER NIGHTBLADE ONLINE

I restarted the statistics a month ago and those are the charts, nightblades everywhere.

What does any of that have to do with PvE?

Dont buff the burst and buff the maintained damage. Thats all but ZOS prefer to do the opposite.

SolarRune · February 24

Stamblade is one of the best examples why different balancing is needed between PVP and PVE - the nerfs applied to overcome the issues seen in PVP have rendered the Stamblade an unfavoured class for most things in PVE content - even necros have their niche with EC.

I think the main way this will move forward is to sort of undo some of the previous nerfs but undo them in such a way that there is a "only on monster" component. This has creeped more into the game over recent years and effectively provides this different balancing without deep code changes.

lostineternity · February 26

ZDunlain wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

ZDunlain wrote: »

Purpose?

ELDER NIGHTBLADE ONLINE

I restarted the statistics a month ago and those are the charts, nightblades everywhere.

What does any of that have to do with PvE?

Dont buff the burst and buff the maintained damage. Thats all but ZOS prefer to do the opposite.

No one from ZOS plays the game. They have no idea what's going on here.
As they said on one stream "i tested combat changes on target dummy" - amazing dedication to work and source of knowledge about combat balance. Also on one stream with developers they spent 20 minutes talking about non combat pets and 0 seconds about pvp.