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Simple changes to make NB good and why they are needed

  • Turtle_Bot
    xDeusEJRx wrote: »
    Prionyx wrote: »
    xDeusEJRx wrote: »
    Prionyx wrote: »
    xDeusEJRx wrote: »
    I'm a Magic Nightblade main and I seriously can't believe there's people who think Nightblade isn't great at everything in PVP.

    There's a lot to be desired for PVE nightblade for sure but I cannot believe this group of nightblade PvP players exist. I think some people are perpetually stuck in 2019''s Elsweyr

    Idle talk with no arguments whatsoever as a responce to 25k+ characters text, how relevant.

    If I'm to genuinely give a critique, your discussion on burst and why Nightblade's burst doesn't line up with other classes is disingenuous, Nightbade is fundamentally not the same as a class like Warden, and Templar(which you mentioned in the IC section). Delayed burst combinations work for them because they are classes meant to be tank and spank classes. You cannot compare nightblade fundamentally to that. Nightblade is a stealth class, a lot of it's burst IS from situation where people DO NOT see you.

    It's extremely disingenuous to not even mention that in the breakdown. Is it a predictable combo? it sure is, however you seem to not mention that half of the time people in PVP will not SEE you incap them considering that's how most PVP nightblades play. Also, most PVP is high player count PVP so how often do you see the nightblade trying to incap you out of stealth in a 30+ man fight. Be serious for a second

    Hence why I say this is disingenuous, most nighblades are NOT brawlers, you could MAYBE make the argument of the burst combo not fitting in line with other classes if it was a brawler class. But ZOS does not intend for nightblade to be a tank and spank class and neither do most nightblade players play that way.

    Why is that every meta nightblade is primarily gank you with insane damage from stealth? Cause that's literally what Nightblade's burst is. You might argue that procs can and will carry proc damage sure, but I wonder how that burst combination is possible? Maybe it has to due with the evasive and mobile nature of Nightblade's skill set.

    Nightblade has ALL the tools necessary to kill with it's entire assassiin playstyle in mind. It has the evasiveness and mobility necessary to burst people like how an assassin is meant to feel. You did mention that for 1vx, which I'll credit you for but not mentioning this in the breakdown of how nightblade's burst works makes it so disingenuous.

    If a Nightblade fails to assassinate it's target, the only thing stopping them from moving to the next target is a 30+ man zerg, it's difficult to evade that, but they have ALL the tools to set up high damage ganks and get out there. However, to say "Nightblade has no burst whatsoever" as you claim is the biggest lie I've ever seen in this game.

    Basically you have said that NB is good because a good NB can kill weak players and run away from good ones...? What kind of argument is this...? Oh and because of extremely niche ganker gameplay which requires you to play 20k HP 0 defence build in which you will die from anything, while it's gameplay being as boring as possible since you just get an ultimate for 50% of the time, look for your target for 45% and at best 5% will be your action. Good class... Very interesting to play, just how it should be and obviously fits what ZOS stand for(play how you want. If play how you want means that if you choose NB then you can only play in one extremely boring way then something is definitely wrong here).

    And I don't even know how to comment on the part where you said that it's not right to compare NB to other classes. Why? Just why? Other classes have tools to kill player, some have huge burst(warden), some huge pressure(arcanist), some have a little of both(templar), but NB has nothing... No burst and no pressure. What makes NB good then?

    The fact you called "ganker" a "niche" gameplay for PVP really says all that needs to be said. Ganking is not niche even remotely. I dont know if you were around for 2022 but most nightblades were running caluurion's legacy and stygians, which were not Brawler playstyles, they played from stealth. The ENTIRE reason Caluurions legacy got nerfed was BECAUSE of gankers. They wouldn't nerf caluurion because of a "niche" playstyle, it WAS meta.
    Ganking and stealth playstyle has NEVER been niche on Nightblade. What you're advocating for IS the niche of Nightblade. There are few nightblades out there trying to tank and spank other classes.

    This is why I say this is disingenuous, you clearly don't know how most nightblades play this game's PVP.

    And as to why it's not right to compare Nightblade, is because Nightblade is fundamentally not the same as the other classes. It's a high mobility, high evasiveness, high damage class. It is not a brawler class, full stop. People playing brawlers are NOT the norm for nightblade. Shadowy disguise is NOT a tank and spank skill, I don't know if you know this. More nightblades run shadowy disguise in PVP than DON'T.

    Nightblade burst combo is meant to be where you get behind players and burst them from the flank or out of stealth. They literally have a passive where they DEAL MORE DAMAGE FROM FLANK. It's MEANT to be. This is why I think it's disingenuous, you look at the passives and skill how can you possibly think this class is meant to be played like how Warden or Templar is meant to be played? Be serious for a second.

    Glad actual NB mains are saying this too. It is blatantly clear that OP did not create this thread to have a genuine, constructive discussion, so I've just blocked them and moved on. Not going to play OP's little game of bait and bash, I'll leave that for the mods to sort out.

    My final comment on this thread will be to simply wish you the best of luck trying to explain the truth.
  • FirmamentOfStars
    Prionyx wrote: »
    Greetings to everyone who decided to look up this thread. There will be 4 following sections in here:

    4. Onto the point of why I think introducing myself makes sense in this thread: I'm @Prionyx, PC EU player. NB mainer. I have 12+ thousands of playtime and most most of them are NB playtime in both PvE and PvP. Onto the PvP: Around 70% of my playtime in PvP is NB playtime which was spent in every possible way to effectively play this class. Many people consider me to be one of the EU's best NBs to touch PvP. I'm also a member of the current strongest PvP group(Kirua). Onto the PvE: I barely play NB in PvE because nobody will take NB to the group anymore xD Outside of this I've cleared most of the trial trifectas(I'm missing one but it's in progress), some on NB, later on other classes because NB is now too weak in PvE for someone to take NB to the group. The point of this paragraph is not to brag about anything, it's to say that I'm far from being a new player and I know exactly what I'm talking about.

    Doubt, otherwise you would know that nightblade is one of the best classes in PvP for solo and smallscale, from bgs, to IC to cyro and have insane burst...maybe take a step out of your ballgroup.
  • MashmalloMan
    xDeusEJRx wrote: »
    Nightblade burst combo is meant to be where you get behind players and burst them from the flank or out of stealth. They literally have a passive where they DEAL MORE DAMAGE FROM FLANK. It's MEANT to be. This is why I think it's disingenuous, you look at the passives and skill how can you possibly think this class is meant to be played like how Warden or Templar is meant to be played? Be serious for a second.

    Did you read their suggestions, they're aware of the flanking situation.
    Prionyx wrote: »
    Master Assassin(Passive): This ability now grants you 258 weapon and spell damage for 5 seconds after dealing critical damage from an enemy's flank, rathen than 2974 penetration against enemy you are flanking.

    As if getting 300-400 Weapon damage from Grim Focus, 300 damage from Vampire, and now 100 damage from Sundered wasn't enough, you want an additional 258 damage for 5s.

    Nevermind that you suggested to buff Dark Cloak by 150%, remove the standing still mechanic (it is dumb, but balances the original 150%), and add Major Prophecy/Savagery to it.

    Why? I think you're just playing the wrong class by trying to make it something it's not. As @xDeusEJRx pointed out, you can build a NB to be brawly just like you can build a DK to be a ranged damage dealer, but you're facing an uphill battle. That's not how the classes were designed. Can you do it? Sure, but you can't expect to be the best at every playstyle in the game. It's exhausting to read.

    You have to recognize some of these suggestions are coming out of left field with little semblance for balance.
    Edited by MashmalloMan on February 1, 2024 4:09PM
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit

    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • ZOS_Volpe

    Because this thread has derailed with baiting and bashing commentary, we felt it was best to close it down. Please be sure to keep our Forum Rules in mind when posting on our forums.

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