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What do you guys have against necro?

Lags
Lags
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So many of us have given zenimax suggestions about things that could help necro, and it seems like you've done the exact opposite. More buffs was a big one, like mainly getting sorcery or savegery on a skill we already had. Tethers not breaking when you hit a rock or tree would be nice. Skills to not be so glitchy. Corpses to not be so glitchy. Could have just let us use a skill on the corpse and then have the ability stick to the necro. BB working right, scythe getting a buff, the skull getting a buff. Maybe a passive minor group buff that we never got for whatever reason even though every other class does. Idk i could think of many things, many skills that dont work right, many issues it has.

So Imagine the surprise of so many people who love the class reading that you plan on removing the only real damage skill we have. Right, so im going to use this new skill and get a buff for what, boneyard? Which you gutted. Or the tether? That breaks on even the smallest line of sight. Its not the answer.

And some how, some way, you see fit to give nightblade more damage? More damage? Wow. I mean id like to say none of us saw this coming, but if you asked me what is most likely to come in new patch notes i would say nightblade buffs, nothing of substance for pvp, and nothing good for necro. So i guess this just falls in line with my expectations.
  • Deimus
    Deimus
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    Necro is the shiny buy me item of a chapter from 5 years ago. Once Gold Road comes out Arcanist will start getting nerfed to bring it in line since it is no longer a buying point, that will be Scribing. Just hope they don't put Arcanists 6 feet under like they are with Necro.

    No developer communication or statements in the patch release addressing the plethora of community feedback. The only thing we can do is speculate and their lack of acknowledgement leads me to believe they just don't care or aren't allowed to spend time fixing it because the Necromancer class has little to no impact on their profitability compared to other things in the game.
  • Dekrypted
    Dekrypted
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    I think we should buff nightblade and dragonknight again. Another round of nerfs to Necromancer and Templar will help "bring the nightblade in line with other classes"

    In all seriousness it's honestly disappointing to see that after so many years, Necromancer is just not worth playing. I've been sent testimonials and have received testimonials of players who just regret taking the time to invest in the class because look where it is. Maybe in another timeline Necromancers and to some degree templars as well (I'm a templar main, im gonna mention my child) will not be where they are now.

    I cant even say "Well atleast you guys have blastbones" because look what they did to it. When this patch drops on the live server, it's going to be interesting to hear everyone else reactions.
    PC NA
    March 2014 - December 2023
    No longer active

    Templar Main
  • WhosTheFancyOneNow
    WhosTheFancyOneNow
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    every death by smoochie story line in eso stars a necro. i mean really. you need to ask?
  • Alaztor91
    Alaztor91
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    I always assumed that the reason why the Necromancer Companion was skipped in favor of Azandar was because ZOS was planning on reworking some Necro skills and it would be more efficient to release the Companion after said skill reworking was done, instead of releasing it with ''old'' skills and adjusting at a later date. Now I'm not so sure anymore.

    A Necro Companion still doesn't have access to the required 3 base skills per class tree. For the ''Grave Lord'' example you could easily allow the Companion to use a variant of Flame Skull and Boneyard, but you are still missing 1 skill in that tree because current Siphon would not work with a Companion (they most likely won't give Companions the Corpse mechanic due to performance reasons, also Azandar does not generate/spend Crux). Skeletal Mage also doesn't work because Companions are not allowed to have skills that summon other things.

    The last potential skill for that tree, Blastbones, also doesn't work for the same reasons as Skeletal Mage, and neither does the new reworked Grave Lord Sacrifice that ZOS is pushing in this PTS since it also spawns an entity. This doesn't even take into account the whole ''Criminal Act'' from certain skills.

    They could certainly design completely new skills for a Necro Companion, but that would imo be the worst scenario. Imagine dev time and resources being spent designing new skills for a Necro Companion while the Necromancer player character still has the same old, clunky and mediocre skills.


  • Dragonredux
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    Alaztor91 wrote: »
    I always assumed that the reason why the Necromancer Companion was skipped in favor of Azandar was because ZOS was planning on reworking some Necro skills and it would be more efficient to release the Companion after said skill reworking was done, instead of releasing it with ''old'' skills and adjusting at a later date. Now I'm not so sure anymore.

    A Necro Companion still doesn't have access to the required 3 base skills per class tree. For the ''Grave Lord'' example you could easily allow the Companion to use a variant of Flame Skull and Boneyard, but you are still missing 1 skill in that tree because current Siphon would not work with a Companion (they most likely won't give Companions the Corpse mechanic due to performance reasons, also Azandar does not generate/spend Crux). Skeletal Mage also doesn't work because Companions are not allowed to have skills that summon other things.

    The last potential skill for that tree, Blastbones, also doesn't work for the same reasons as Skeletal Mage, and neither does the new reworked Grave Lord Sacrifice that ZOS is pushing in this PTS since it also spawns an entity. This doesn't even take into account the whole ''Criminal Act'' from certain skills.

    They could certainly design completely new skills for a Necro Companion, but that would imo be the worst scenario. Imagine dev time and resources being spent designing new skills for a Necro Companion while the Necromancer player character still has the same old, clunky and mediocre skills.


    Yeah whatever spaghetti code with pets not being to summons pets. Part of me also feels that's the reason as insane it sounds. Gut the players instead of fixing the broken system right?
  • brandsnipe
    brandsnipe
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    Lags wrote: »
    After another set of patch notes i am still wondering, what does zos have against this class? Even at a base level, access to major/minor buffs/debuffs. Some classes have more than others. Some classes have these buffs on better, or worse, skills than others. Things such as sub assault having major/minor breach. Thats absolutely huge, and on a skill most wardens would use. Or like major savagery/prophecy on cloak, on both bars, at all times, for slotting it. And so on.

    Necro has a problem with both a complete lack of these buffs, and a lack of having them on good skills, or good skills in general. We dont even have the 1 minor buff that every class has, which is laughable imo. ( for example, warden has minor toughness, arcanist minor evasion, sorc prophecy, nb savagery, etc).

    So out of curiosity i went through all the major/minor buffs/debuffs every class has access to, and this is what i found. Sorc has 14. DK has 17. Templar has 17. Arcanist has 18. Warden has 22. Nightblade has a whopping 25. And necro has an abysmal 9. Just 9. And one of those 9 is empower, useless in pvp. Does anyone see a problem here?

    And out of those on a normal build i would use 2. Major resolve and major protection. The armor buff and deaden pain. Collosus gives major vuln, which i would use in a group. So maybe 3. The other 5 are on skills that are not good or viable to run.

    So what does this tell me? Well at the very least necromancer is exceptionally lacking in these buffs/debuffs. Of course these numbers dont mean a class is better than another. But it certainly helps to have access to more. Some classes just feel more seamless than others, and synergize better with their skills and passives. DK, nightblade, sorc. they make sense for what they want to do, and are strong with mostly good skills and passives. Same with templar and warden, even though they have a couple issues. And arcanist just feels and looks busted.

    Then you have necro.

    Necro just feels like a pattern of neglect and bad balance. The class has tethers that break on LOS making them nearly useless in pvp. Its spammables are terrible, skull, scythe, and blast bones. the only half decent one will now be gone next update. Even the buffs/debuffs we have are not on viable skills. Major breach, for example, is on boneyard. Its not a terrible skill, but the breach does not last when people leave the AOE. Players do not usually just sit in AOES. It should be more like caltrops, where the breach sticks to the player for a little bit after they leave the boneyard.

    Minor maim is on grave grasp, which only immobilizes and gives minor maim. Compared to something like dk talons, its terrible and complicated. People have to be hit by 3 areas of it to get a snare, CC, and stun. Talons you just CC them in place, deal damage, and get a synergy. On top of that, you can either get minor maim or more damage. Theres no comparison.

    Even the armor buff skill is mid compared to wardens, sorcs, dks, arcanists, or templar. Nightblade just gets it passively for using a shadow skill so another win for nb i guess.

    Most of the class skills are just decent or bad. Yes some are good. Deaden pain, colossus, and expunge are good. the tethers might not be bad if they didnt break on every twig you run past. It just seems like these things could be easily fixed.

    It has decent passives but is lacking a class minor passive like every other class. That makes zero sense. But really the lack of buffs, and having some bad skills, are the bigger issues. We need some major/minor buffs/debuffs on good skills. A mender that gives brutality, a summon that gives savagery, something. We need some skills to be reworked to be more useful, and we really need tethers to stop breaking on LOS, because they could be decent skills.

    TL;DR the class is exceptionally lacking in every way, and i dont understand why zos isnt doing more.

    @ZOS_Icy @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_Bill @ZOS_Adrikoth

    Fix you're paid for class
  • fizzylu
    fizzylu
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    Alaztor91 wrote: »
    I always assumed that the reason why the Necromancer Companion was skipped in favor of Azandar was because ZOS was planning on reworking some Necro skills and it would be more efficient to release the Companion after said skill reworking was done, instead of releasing it with ''old'' skills and adjusting at a later date. Now I'm not so sure anymore.
    I've been under the assumption that Zenimax is just confused by their own class. It even shows in the little things, like the Necromancer outfit style from IA looking not so Necromancery.... it seriously gives me Nightingale armor from Skyrim vibes.
  • Hottytotz
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    There is seriously an issue with casting blast bones every 3s. However nuking it from orbit was not the way. Many people magically acting like blastbones was never clunky or an issue in a rotation but I have to agree id rather have that clunk then nothing.
  • Aldoss
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    Hottytotz wrote: »
    Many people magically acting like blastbones was never clunky or an issue in a rotation but I have to agree id rather have that clunk then nothing.

    I think we're all in agreement that blastbones has always been clunky and has numerous issues like failing to jump or jumping but doing no damage.

    It just doesn't change the fact that stalking blastbones is the single most important skill in EVERY necro's build, regardless of pve or pvp and ZOS just up and yeeted it with no care or regard for the players attempting to keep this class relevant and not completely extinct.

    Edited by Aldoss on February 14, 2024 4:01PM
  • DanteTheDeviant
    brandsnipe wrote: »
    Lags wrote: »
    After another set of patch notes i am still wondering, what does zos have against this class? Even at a base level, access to major/minor buffs/debuffs. Some classes have more than others. Some classes have these buffs on better, or worse, skills than others. Things such as sub assault having major/minor breach. Thats absolutely huge, and on a skill most wardens would use. Or like major savagery/prophecy on cloak, on both bars, at all times, for slotting it. And so on.

    Necro has a problem with both a complete lack of these buffs, and a lack of having them on good skills, or good skills in general. We dont even have the 1 minor buff that every class has, which is laughable imo. ( for example, warden has minor toughness, arcanist minor evasion, sorc prophecy, nb savagery, etc).

    So out of curiosity i went through all the major/minor buffs/debuffs every class has access to, and this is what i found. Sorc has 14. DK has 17. Templar has 17. Arcanist has 18. Warden has 22. Nightblade has a whopping 25. And necro has an abysmal 9. Just 9. And one of those 9 is empower, useless in pvp. Does anyone see a problem here?

    And out of those on a normal build i would use 2. Major resolve and major protection. The armor buff and deaden pain. Collosus gives major vuln, which i would use in a group. So maybe 3. The other 5 are on skills that are not good or viable to run.

    So what does this tell me? Well at the very least necromancer is exceptionally lacking in these buffs/debuffs. Of course these numbers dont mean a class is better than another. But it certainly helps to have access to more. Some classes just feel more seamless than others, and synergize better with their skills and passives. DK, nightblade, sorc. they make sense for what they want to do, and are strong with mostly good skills and passives. Same with templar and warden, even though they have a couple issues. And arcanist just feels and looks busted.

    Then you have necro.

    Necro just feels like a pattern of neglect and bad balance. The class has tethers that break on LOS making them nearly useless in pvp. Its spammables are terrible, skull, scythe, and blast bones. the only half decent one will now be gone next update. Even the buffs/debuffs we have are not on viable skills. Major breach, for example, is on boneyard. Its not a terrible skill, but the breach does not last when people leave the AOE. Players do not usually just sit in AOES. It should be more like caltrops, where the breach sticks to the player for a little bit after they leave the boneyard.

    Minor maim is on grave grasp, which only immobilizes and gives minor maim. Compared to something like dk talons, its terrible and complicated. People have to be hit by 3 areas of it to get a snare, CC, and stun. Talons you just CC them in place, deal damage, and get a synergy. On top of that, you can either get minor maim or more damage. Theres no comparison.

    Even the armor buff skill is mid compared to wardens, sorcs, dks, arcanists, or templar. Nightblade just gets it passively for using a shadow skill so another win for nb i guess.

    Most of the class skills are just decent or bad. Yes some are good. Deaden pain, colossus, and expunge are good. the tethers might not be bad if they didnt break on every twig you run past. It just seems like these things could be easily fixed.

    It has decent passives but is lacking a class minor passive like every other class. That makes zero sense. But really the lack of buffs, and having some bad skills, are the bigger issues. We need some major/minor buffs/debuffs on good skills. A mender that gives brutality, a summon that gives savagery, something. We need some skills to be reworked to be more useful, and we really need tethers to stop breaking on LOS, because they could be decent skills.

    TL;DR the class is exceptionally lacking in every way, and i dont understand why zos isnt doing more.

    @ZOS_Icy @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_Bill @ZOS_Adrikoth

    Fix you're paid for class

    Please fix necromancer... Don't let the nerf go to live...
  • Hottytotz
    Hottytotz
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    Aldoss wrote: »
    Hottytotz wrote: »
    Many people magically acting like blastbones was never clunky or an issue in a rotation but I have to agree id rather have that clunk then nothing.

    I think we're all in agreement that blastbones has always been clunky and has numerous issues like failing to jump or jumping but doing no damage.

    It just doesn't change the fact that stalking blastbones is the single most important skill in EVERY necro's build, regardless of pve or pvp and ZOS just up and yeeted it with no care or regard for the players attempting to keep this class relevant and not completely extinct.

    I know what you are saying but most people on these reply threads been (rightfully) complaining about blastbones and necro rotation. Now that ZOS is doing somthing about it (albeit *** terribly) everyone acting like there was really nothing wrong with it all along.
  • CameraBeardThePirate
    CameraBeardThePirate
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    Hottytotz wrote: »
    Aldoss wrote: »
    Hottytotz wrote: »
    Many people magically acting like blastbones was never clunky or an issue in a rotation but I have to agree id rather have that clunk then nothing.

    I think we're all in agreement that blastbones has always been clunky and has numerous issues like failing to jump or jumping but doing no damage.

    It just doesn't change the fact that stalking blastbones is the single most important skill in EVERY necro's build, regardless of pve or pvp and ZOS just up and yeeted it with no care or regard for the players attempting to keep this class relevant and not completely extinct.

    I know what you are saying but most people on these reply threads been (rightfully) complaining about blastbones and necro rotation. Now that ZOS is doing somthing about it (albeit *** terribly) everyone acting like there was really nothing wrong with it all along.

    Because blastbones was more or less fixed when they changed it to leap at 28m.

    Even in PvP, it rarely bugs out completely, and the scenarios where it does are scenarios in which any other ability would likely miss/bug (heavy lag, elevation changes, and LoS)
  • IncultaWolf
    IncultaWolf
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    There were several ways suggested by multiple players on how to "fix" blastbones in pve AND pvp, without just straight up destroying it as a damage ability.
  • IncultaWolf
    IncultaWolf
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    NuarBlack wrote: »
    [snip]

    They haven't been able to make Blast bones function properly so their solution was to just remove it.

    It feels that way

    [edited to remove quote]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 17, 2024 6:18PM
  • Aldoss
    Aldoss
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    Hottytotz wrote: »
    Aldoss wrote: »
    Hottytotz wrote: »
    Many people magically acting like blastbones was never clunky or an issue in a rotation but I have to agree id rather have that clunk then nothing.

    I think we're all in agreement that blastbones has always been clunky and has numerous issues like failing to jump or jumping but doing no damage.

    It just doesn't change the fact that stalking blastbones is the single most important skill in EVERY necro's build, regardless of pve or pvp and ZOS just up and yeeted it with no care or regard for the players attempting to keep this class relevant and not completely extinct.

    I know what you are saying but most people on these reply threads been (rightfully) complaining about blastbones and necro rotation. Now that ZOS is doing somthing about it (albeit *** terribly) everyone acting like there was really nothing wrong with it all along.

    Because blastbones was more or less fixed when they changed it to leap at 28m.

    Even in PvP, it rarely bugs out completely, and the scenarios where it does are scenarios in which any other ability would likely miss/bug (heavy lag, elevation changes, and LoS)

    This. I've been maining necro all this patch and the most frequent bb issue I can notice is when it jumps, explodes, and no numbers go off maybe 1 in 50 casts. I'll take that over the skill being gone entirely.
  • CameraBeardThePirate
    CameraBeardThePirate
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    Aldoss wrote: »
    Hottytotz wrote: »
    Aldoss wrote: »
    Hottytotz wrote: »
    Many people magically acting like blastbones was never clunky or an issue in a rotation but I have to agree id rather have that clunk then nothing.

    I think we're all in agreement that blastbones has always been clunky and has numerous issues like failing to jump or jumping but doing no damage.

    It just doesn't change the fact that stalking blastbones is the single most important skill in EVERY necro's build, regardless of pve or pvp and ZOS just up and yeeted it with no care or regard for the players attempting to keep this class relevant and not completely extinct.

    I know what you are saying but most people on these reply threads been (rightfully) complaining about blastbones and necro rotation. Now that ZOS is doing somthing about it (albeit *** terribly) everyone acting like there was really nothing wrong with it all along.

    Because blastbones was more or less fixed when they changed it to leap at 28m.

    Even in PvP, it rarely bugs out completely, and the scenarios where it does are scenarios in which any other ability would likely miss/bug (heavy lag, elevation changes, and LoS)

    This. I've been maining necro all this patch and the most frequent bb issue I can notice is when it jumps, explodes, and no numbers go off maybe 1 in 50 casts. I'll take that over the skill being gone entirely.

    And this alone could be fixed with a slight (1m) radius increase, since it's likely caused by high movement speed allowing a target to escape the blast radius before the damage is calculated at the time of impact.

    It really only ever happens against Sorcs and other mobile targets.
    Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on February 14, 2024 10:15PM
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    Necro has been a decent class for HA Oakensoul builds, because Oakensoul largely solves the buff problems, and Blastbones can hit pretty hard on every second skill cast.

    So much for that option ...
  • Lags
    Lags
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    Dekrypted wrote: »
    I think we should buff nightblade and dragonknight again. Another round of nerfs to Necromancer and Templar will help "bring the nightblade in line with other classes"

    In all seriousness it's honestly disappointing to see that after so many years, Necromancer is just not worth playing. I've been sent testimonials and have received testimonials of players who just regret taking the time to invest in the class because look where it is. Maybe in another timeline Necromancers and to some degree templars as well (I'm a templar main, im gonna mention my child) will not be where they are now.

    I cant even say "Well atleast you guys have blastbones" because look what they did to it. When this patch drops on the live server, it's going to be interesting to hear everyone else reactions.

    this is just a big issue with the devs and the eso community. I feel like unless something is complained about enough nothing will change with it, at least not for a long time. Nightblade is probably the most played class in pvp. Dk is up there. The eso community is small. The amount of people who care about things is small. And on top of that the pvp community is small, as well as the end game pve community. So what im getting at is, the amount of people who care about how terrible necro is, is very small.

    But even still it blows my mind that they cant look at these classes side by side and determine that one seems to have way more issues than the others. And maybe even take into account some of the opinions players who love the class and have been playing it since its release. I have put a lot of time into necro and i know others have too. Its not hard to see the issues.
  • StarOfElyon
    StarOfElyon
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    Hottytotz wrote: »
    There is seriously an issue with casting blast bones every 3s. However nuking it from orbit was not the way. Many people magically acting like blastbones was never clunky or an issue in a rotation but I have to agree id rather have that clunk then nothing.

    Just because it was possible doesn't mean it was necessary.
  • TX12001rwb17_ESO
    TX12001rwb17_ESO
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    Illegal Class
    NuarBlack wrote: »
    [snip]

    They haven't been able to make Blast bones function properly so their solution was to just remove it.

    Instead they could of just turned it into a delayed projectile skill

    [edited to remove quote]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 17, 2024 6:19PM
  • Uvi_AUT
    Uvi_AUT
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    I love the new skill from a purely PvEperspective. That being said, I would like for BB to get the buffs you guys want for PvP.
    Registered since 2014, Customer Service lost my Forum-Account and can't find it.....
  • OtarTheMad
    OtarTheMad
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    NuarBlack wrote: »
    [snip]

    They haven't been able to make Blast bones function properly so their solution was to just remove it.

    Maybe it shouldn’t have been a skill in the first place. I remember when Warden was coming out ZOS had said that shalks was originally a Haj Mota that charged at the target but they couldn’t get the pathing right so they changed it.

    [edited to remove quote]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 17, 2024 6:21PM
  • TX12001rwb17_ESO
    TX12001rwb17_ESO
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    The class with the weakest skills, many of which are criminal...

    I guess crime does not pay, shame there are no class change tokens so necromancer characters can redeem themselves.
  • NuarBlack
    NuarBlack
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    Illegal Class
    NuarBlack wrote: »
    [snip]

    They haven't been able to make Blast bones function properly so their solution was to just remove it.

    Instead they could of just turned it into a delayed projectile skill

    I suggested something similar last patch, that it sacrificed itself to create a spell projectile. Honestly there are probably a number of ways the skill could have been changed to fix its problems while still serving its function as delayed burst. [snip]

    [edited for bashing & to remove quote]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 17, 2024 6:20PM
  • NuarBlack
    NuarBlack
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    OtarTheMad wrote: »
    NuarBlack wrote: »
    [snip]

    They haven't been able to make Blast bones function properly so their solution was to just remove it.

    Maybe it shouldn’t have been a skill in the first place. I remember when Warden was coming out ZOS had said that shalks was originally a Haj Mota that charged at the target but they couldn’t get the pathing right so they changed it.

    [snip] It was good upon release just cause it was Over Powered then. Proper tuning just revealed it was a janky mess.

    [edited for bashing & to remove quote]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 17, 2024 6:17PM
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