Do yall really want this game to be Tekken but with spammable burst heals?

Turtle_Bot

Arcanasx wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

But sure, MDW was more of an issue according to those who still think concealed weapon and elemental susceptibility needs PvP buffs, and sets like Ice Vate Destro with ele sus, Jerral Mountain's, Relequen and rushing agony are currently fine.

This is the weird part for me, if they're aware of MDW being a problem, why did they leave every other culprit the same.

Not even just Vat Destro, Ele Sus is even more of a must have seeing as status effects were buffed too.

I mentioned Vate destro because next patch its easily going to achieve more than three times the DPS compared to MDW if we're comparing the DoT DPS only. And then you have ele sus which is insanely overloaded on top of that; stronger than Vate destro itself and especially compared to rending slashes without MDW.

This targeted nerf likely happened because the forums were complaining about MDW more than the other sets simply because it started showing up on more death recaps in recent times, and not because they suddenly decided to "correct" or "update" their spreadsheet balancing after 44 months of baking for MDW's case. Otherwise, we'd see a lot more changes happening to the other strong(er) sets, mythics, (and skills) at the same time as well.

The issue I find with the "MDW has become too strong because of these other changes that have happened since then" reasoning that's also somewhat common on the forums, is that these other problematic changes introduced since then are still going to continue to be problematic regardless of MDW getting practically nerfed for solo players, especially when they decide to indirectly buff ele sus...

I mean, it also goes to show that they also must believe MDW is stronger and more of a problem than undeath too. And it seems like they haven't even bothered to take a look at bringing up other underperforming arena weapons like Maelstrom dw or BRP 2h...

Maelstrom DW is kinda slept on imo, especially on a DoT build. I've been running it front bar on my DoT DK build and it's had some nice results so far. Definitely not a top tier broken meta set, but definitely not unusably bad. If DK didn't already have whip, I could see it being one of the better set-ups for that class.

Arcanasx

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

But sure, MDW was more of an issue according to those who still think concealed weapon and elemental susceptibility needs PvP buffs, and sets like Ice Vate Destro with ele sus, Jerral Mountain's, Relequen and rushing agony are currently fine.

This is the weird part for me, if they're aware of MDW being a problem, why did they leave every other culprit the same.

Not even just Vat Destro, Ele Sus is even more of a must have seeing as status effects were buffed too.

I mentioned Vate destro because next patch its easily going to achieve more than three times the DPS compared to MDW if we're comparing the DoT DPS only. And then you have ele sus which is insanely overloaded on top of that; stronger than Vate destro itself and especially compared to rending slashes without MDW.

This targeted nerf likely happened because the forums were complaining about MDW more than the other sets simply because it started showing up on more death recaps in recent times, and not because they suddenly decided to "correct" or "update" their spreadsheet balancing after 44 months of baking for MDW's case. Otherwise, we'd see a lot more changes happening to the other strong(er) sets, mythics, (and skills) at the same time as well.

The issue I find with the "MDW has become too strong because of these other changes that have happened since then" reasoning that's also somewhat common on the forums, is that these other problematic changes introduced since then are still going to continue to be problematic regardless of MDW getting practically nerfed for solo players, especially when they decide to indirectly buff ele sus...

I mean, it also goes to show that they also must believe MDW is stronger and more of a problem than undeath too. And it seems like they haven't even bothered to take a look at bringing up other underperforming arena weapons like Maelstrom dw or BRP 2h...

Maelstrom DW is kinda slept on imo, especially on a DoT build. I've been running it front bar on my DoT DK build and it's had some nice results so far. Definitely not a top tier broken meta set, but definitely not unusably bad. If DK didn't already have whip, I could see it being one of the better set-ups for that class.

It has some potential on DK, but I think Maelstrom DW not buffing the skill itself just makes it feel like it underperforms too much compared to other options IMO. The previous DoT nerfs haven't helped it either. From my own experience, flurry itself actually becomes a solid spammable if you combine it with Maelstrom 2H on the backbar and use it with another offensive 5pc set that synergizes with flurry at least. But slotting crit rush also takes away a single target DoT option as well, which you really want to have slotted when trying to use Maelstrom DW. You also lose a defensive weapon for the BB too.

So it's either you have a mediocre spammable to buff your DoTs, or buff the spammable using another arena weapon so it starts feeling good to use, but also sacrifice an ability slot that's needed to get the most out of Maelstrom DW's bonus. It simply just needs to do more on its own to be worth using I think, because its too reliant on other sets and skills to get enough value from them while not providing any buffS for the skill itself.

And then there's BRP 2H, where it remains eternally confined within BRP, seeing virtually no use whatsoever. Because why would someone ever use it when Masters 2H exists? Why not buff your dizzy swing more with a 5pc offensive set and gain more value that way than using its own arena weapon. You have to wonder why after all this time they still won't attempt any change for it to make it worth using...

Galeriano

Arcanasx wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

my understanding of the change is its ~21% of the highest of your weapon and spell dmg, capping at the current value of 1635 additional dmg

so it only really hurts low dmg specs from benefitting from the bonus too much

It actually have no cap of 1635 at 7,8k wep/spell dmg and it continues to scale further above that value although somwhere around 10k wep/spell dmg scaling seems to be getting weaker. Here is a value with 12,9k wep

I'd equate that to a bug seeing as they said "up to 1635" in the patch notes. It seems unreasonable to allow it infinite scaling like that.

Did you test it on a target to see if this is just the tooltip?

Arcanasx wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

my understanding of the change is its ~21% of the highest of your weapon and spell dmg, capping at the current value of 1635 additional dmg

so it only really hurts low dmg specs from benefitting from the bonus too much

It actually have no cap of 1635 at 7,8k wep/spell dmg and it continues to scale further above that value although somwhere around 10k wep/spell dmg scaling seems to be getting weaker. Here is a value with 12,9k wep

That doesn't seem intended according to how the PTS notes were written. Now, it would also be interesting to see what tooltip values you'd reach with sets like Rushing Agony, Zaan's, Relequen, Vate destro, etc at 12.9k weapon damage, if they still do continue to scale to that point.

Yuu both seem to be reading patch notes incorrectly. They don't say new value is set up to 1635 they are saying old value was up to 1635.

It says quote "This set’s damage done bonus now scales off 20.925% of the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage, RATHER than offering a flat bonus based on the item level, up to 1635"
Word rather is a key here. It means now this set will be scaling from 21% of user's wep/spell dmg rather than having old value of up to 1635. Why they've used phrase "up to"? Because it was maximum value when user had 2x CP 160 gold quality weapons but not having that perfect combo would result with slightly lower value.

If that's the intention, given their reasoning for the change, you'd think they would also apply the same logic to other flat damage bonuses from other sets, but its just MDW which is quite odd. I also think their reasoning of "allowing tanks to do too much damage with it" is off the mark because it isn't uniquely MDW enabling tanks to do damage.

They also seem to not have taken into consideration how easy it is to stack 40k hp with undeath and use an over-tuned, ranged, no resource costing, force amplifying weapon that is also the greatest source of status effect spam, and that also doubles as a defensive backbar with the incredibly strong heals and shields that we have now. Because with that, any build can become a "tank with damage."

But sure, MDW was more of an issue according to those who still think concealed weapon and elemental susceptibility needs PvP buffs, and sets like Ice Vate Destro with ele sus, Jerral Mountain's, Relequen and rushing agony are currently fine.

No You really wouldn't think that. They changed MDW from static to scaling simply because the way it functions right now on live server started causing issues. Other sets like maesltrom destro, maelstrom 2h or even vate destro are not casuing nearly as many issues. MDW was allowing everyone to do more dmg and contrary to other mentioned weapons was serving multiple purposes. It was increasing someone's dmg capabilities by a lot and all of it just by applying it onto someone when other mentioned weapons still have rules that hold them back like being stationary or having a range limitations. MDW currently is the main thing that pushes tanky setup dmg up. It's not the only thing but it's main offender.

Vateshran destro is not resposnible for as much damage as MDW and is nowhere near MDW strenght. It is a pure single target with range limitations and a timer. With MDW You can just tap rending once per target every 20 seconds and since than they'll be taking dmg sometimes equall to value of 3 regular DOTs. If they cleanse it You just reapply it like nothing happened and it's also makin the same ability a strong spammable. Vateshran destro is mainly popular because in current meta You can very often make a setup that will have free slot on back bar and vate destro simple fits there because the only weapon ability You have on back bar is ele sus. If ele sus wouldn't be a must have ability vate destro wouldn't be used at all while MDW would be still used because it's slotted for it's pure strenght not because of good connection with ability You already use.

Concealed weapon change is actually not that horrible PvP wise. It will reduce power of most abused nb setup which is a bow ganker. They will loose 10% of their damage because they were slotting concealed weapon just for a damage buff so their lethal arrows and procs would hit harder. Elemental susceptibility recived universal buff not just PvP buff. I wouldn;t be suprised though if in later PTS weeks they would make adjustments to how it works. Relequen, Jerall and Rushing Agony are still nowhere near the strenght level that MDW provides You with ZoS also seems to be lately avoiding making too many too drastic changes at once so way less things go into the chopping block simultaneously , this time they choose MDW because out of all pro sets currently this one is the biggest issue.

xylena_lazarow

[accidental post, please delete]