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So whats up with Vet Graven Deep?

ArchMikem
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Whenever I've ran it it's always been on Norm, and even though that had a bit of a learning curve it was simple enough. Tonight as a pledge I decided to attempt Tanking it on Veteran, and when did I suddenly get transported into a Trial? The number of one shots throughout is insane, and the Final was the biggest brick wall I've ever fought. You need DD's with good self heals, a Healer providing a purge for all those DoTs, Magicka DDs for the Orbs so you don't have to chase them down with Melee, and enough armor for everyone to survive the unblockable, unbreakable Fear that also hurts you. I know I'm a year late to the party but what's with that massive difficulty gap? How did people work thru that Final Boss on Vet?
CP1,900+ Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!
  • Hotdog_23
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    Yea, vet is not very PUG-friendly at all. I wonder if they made it so mechanics heavy to satisfy the group, always begging for harder content.
  • Dagoth_Rac
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    Are you new to Veteran DLC dungeons? You need a coordinated group, voice chat, and if you do not follow the mechanics or meet the tank/heal/DPS checks, you die. Vet Graven Deep did not strike me as much different from other recent veteran DLC dungeons. The hard mode is a real pain, but just regular veteran seems pretty similar to other DLC dungeons. There is a huge leap between Normal and Veteran and probably an even bigger leap between Veteran and Veteran Hard Mode, but that seems typical for all DLC dungeons and Trials.
  • Necrotech_Master
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    the fear mechanic you have to face your character away from the boss to avoid it

    there is a lot of mechanics going on in this final boss for sure

    the most ideal setup is the healer deals with the sea orbs on most of the pads while keeping hots up on the dps
    dps hit sea orbs if they see one getting low
    tank focuses on the main boss because theres a lot of heavy dmg from it

    when the boss does the fear, all players have to turn and face their character away from the boss (to where the skull over your head goes away)

    other mechanics like the soul split (where it takes one person and applies a dot on them they have to run and touch the gold ghost that spawns, this can be easy to miss and you cannot be healed while this effect is on you)

    the boss also chooses 1 player at random and gets additional effects depending on the class of the player:
    • if player was templar, boss drops novas randomly
    • if player was sorc, boss does lightning strikes
    • if player was DK, boss launches fireballs at the group
    • if player was warden, boss creates ice patches
    • if player was necromancer, boss spawns exploding undead (similar to blastbones but it spawns like 6 of them)
    • i dont remember what the boss does if a player was a NB, ive seen so very very few NB in this dungeon lol
    • if player was arcanist, boss picks a random class effect from above list (arcanist was added after dungeon and hasnt been updated to have some unique effect for this class)

    at 50% the boss does the thing where you phase shift and have to kill the ghosts swimming to the center, if you collectively manage to prevent most or all of them from reaching the center, it downgrades the abomination that spawns to either a bone colossus or runty flesh atro

    like others said this is a very pug-unfriendly final dungeon boss because it does require a huge amount of coordination mainly keeping the sea orbs up
    Dagoth_Rac wrote: »
    Are you new to Veteran DLC dungeons? You need a coordinated group, voice chat, and if you do not follow the mechanics or meet the tank/heal/DPS checks, you die. Vet Graven Deep did not strike me as much different from other recent veteran DLC dungeons. The hard mode is a real pain, but just regular veteran seems pretty similar to other DLC dungeons. There is a huge leap between Normal and Veteran and probably an even bigger leap between Veteran and Veteran Hard Mode, but that seems typical for all DLC dungeons and Trials.

    after running it on vet and vet HM, there was actually fairly minimal differences between the mechanics/difficulty, if you could do vet then the HM shouldnt be too much more difficult

    the main differences between vet and vet HM is that more sea orbs drop at once, and 2 players get afflicted by the soul split i think, outside of that it was more hp and more dmg from the boss which was about it
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
  • Soarora
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    Vet is really not as bad as everyone’s saying it is. It was hard to clear when it was new but now that more pugs know mechs it’s just like any other dungeon. There’s no need for coordination, you just need to be a good tank.

    First boss:
    Hold him by the door. Don’t chase him, he’ll come back to you. Hold block, that’s about it.

    Second boss:
    Have wall of frost. Hold boss in the middle if DPS is high enough (it almost always is even in pugs). If not, have to do mechanics (drag him out by the wall where there’s no big glowing skeleton, DPS kill the skeletons before they jump at the boss). During the healcheck (when it looks like it’s raining), spam your frost wall towards group. The shield from frost wall mitigates the healcheck.

    Last boss:
    Choose one of the four corner pads. I’m not sure if it matters but I do the one in the top right.
    Put a ranged ability on your frontbar (I move my ranged taunt (inner fire) to frontbar, but anything that’s not a slow projectile (like don’t use fetcherflies) will work.
    ROLL THE CONES (by rolling backwards, then run forwards so boss doesn’t follow). You can do it without rolling them but don’t, it’s much more risky.
    Orbs are YOUR responsibility, assume the other 3 can’t do orbs. Use that ranged ability and bap the orbs back up from where you’re standing. It’s pretty easy to swivel your head just left and right to check them. If you ever do HM, these two orbs are your responsibility then as well, so this is good practice.
    Class mechs shouldn’t be a problem, ignore the yellow circles. You can purge the NB DoT but it should be ignorable. Only thing that matters is Nova, Winter’s Revenge, and Mage’s Wrath. Do get out of those AoEs. Winter’s Revenge you cannot roll into or you slip and fall and die to the cones. Plan accordingly while kiting or bring immobilization potions.
    Edit: Forgot fear, I always forget it lol. Turn your character away from boss. If the skull over your head disappears then you’re good to go.
    Edited by Soarora on January 16, 2024 6:10PM
    PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore
  • Araneae6537
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    Idk, got through it in a few pulls when I PUGged it last night and it was the first time running it on vet for me (healer) and one of the DPS, but the group was great and very helpful.

    There are a lot of mechanics, and I didn’t realize there were effects I should purge (was on my new NB healer, need to see what options I have for that) so I just healed like mad, HoTs and bursts and a barrier when things got tense!
  • ArchMikem
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    Dagoth_Rac wrote: »
    Are you new to Veteran DLC dungeons? You need a coordinated group, voice chat, and if you do not follow the mechanics or meet the tank/heal/DPS checks, you die. Vet Graven Deep did not strike me as much different from other recent veteran DLC dungeons. The hard mode is a real pain, but just regular veteran seems pretty similar to other DLC dungeons. There is a huge leap between Normal and Veteran and probably an even bigger leap between Veteran and Veteran Hard Mode, but that seems typical for all DLC dungeons and Trials.

    No. I'm not, just Vet Graven specifically.

    I appreciate the run downs from everyone else though, they were helpful, thank you.
    CP1,900+ Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - The Clan
    Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!
  • ArchMikem
    ArchMikem
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    I'm pretty sure my biggest problem was the bleeds the Boss inflicts, I didnt have a purge and the group Healer wasn't a Templar. In fact some of the DDs mentioned they felt they weren't being healed either, even though it was the Healer telling us about the Mechanics. The DDs were also dying to the four shades the Boss splits into and the Fear we didn't know to face away from.

    But damn did that damage output from all those AoE and DoT attacks the Boss does really adds up. Graven is one of the Dungeons that really overwhelms me as a Tank.
    CP1,900+ Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - The Clan
    Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!
  • Soarora
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    ArchMikem wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure my biggest problem was the bleeds the Boss inflicts, I didnt have a purge and the group Healer wasn't a Templar. In fact some of the DDs mentioned they felt they weren't being healed either, even though it was the Healer telling us about the Mechanics. The DDs were also dying to the four shades the Boss splits into and the Fear we didn't know to face away from.

    But damn did that damage output from all those AoE and DoT attacks the Boss does really adds up. Graven is one of the Dungeons that really overwhelms me as a Tank.

    I wonder if the healer was a healer then. People need to interrupt the shades or a projectile shoots out and hits everyone. Won't really hurt you as the tank, hurts everyone else bad though. Thus, the way I do it is everyone gets their own shade. DPS take down their shade, then the healer, then the tank. Different groups do this differently though.

    GD is deffo rough on the tank starting off. The more you do it though, the easier it gets. I'm not sure what the bleeds you're referring to are, but I use DSA SnB and puncture is thus my main heal.
    PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore
  • ArchMikem
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    Soarora wrote: »
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure my biggest problem was the bleeds the Boss inflicts, I didnt have a purge and the group Healer wasn't a Templar. In fact some of the DDs mentioned they felt they weren't being healed either, even though it was the Healer telling us about the Mechanics. The DDs were also dying to the four shades the Boss splits into and the Fear we didn't know to face away from.

    But damn did that damage output from all those AoE and DoT attacks the Boss does really adds up. Graven is one of the Dungeons that really overwhelms me as a Tank.

    I wonder if the healer was a healer then. People need to interrupt the shades or a projectile shoots out and hits everyone. Won't really hurt you as the tank, hurts everyone else bad though. Thus, the way I do it is everyone gets their own shade. DPS take down their shade, then the healer, then the tank. Different groups do this differently though.

    GD is deffo rough on the tank starting off. The more you do it though, the easier it gets. I'm not sure what the bleeds you're referring to are, but I use DSA SnB and puncture is thus my main heal.

    All I know is the Boss applies these DoTs that really eat away at you, they could be ground AoEs that I'm just not noticing, but the Healer mentioned they're bleeds? After all the wipes we had I began to realize it was just a fail group, we weren't properly built for it, and I'm not saying this like I was the only good one, I'm real rusty at Tanking and it was my first time doing Vet Graven and I oops'd myself into a couple one hits as well that I should've blocked.
    CP1,900+ Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - The Clan
    Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!
  • Necrotech_Master
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    ArchMikem wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure my biggest problem was the bleeds the Boss inflicts, I didnt have a purge and the group Healer wasn't a Templar. In fact some of the DDs mentioned they felt they weren't being healed either, even though it was the Healer telling us about the Mechanics. The DDs were also dying to the four shades the Boss splits into and the Fear we didn't know to face away from.

    But damn did that damage output from all those AoE and DoT attacks the Boss does really adds up. Graven is one of the Dungeons that really overwhelms me as a Tank.

    the bleeds generally come from the abomination, that full abomination hits very hard (actually i would say harder than the boss)

    if your group isnt super high DPS to burn the boss before the abomination starts to become a problem for the tank, its almost better to have the dps focus the abom to kill it because it does not respawn (the only abominations on this fight is the one that can spawn at 50% if your group does not do a good job of killing the swimming ghosts)

    personally i think the thresholds on downgrading the abomination on the 50% phase need to be changed, because i think ive only ever seen the runty flesh atro once ever, and that was when we actually killed basically 100% of the ghosts

    you can only let very very few of them slip through to get the bone colossus (which is still easier to deal with and weaker than the full abomination)
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
  • code65536
    code65536
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    Oh hey, someone tagged me.

    You need DD's with good self heals, a Healer providing a purge for all those DoTs
    There is only one purgeable DoT in that fight, and it's when the boss copies the abilities of a Nightblade. If you have no Nightblades in the group, there is no reason to slot purge.

    As for the tank, the boss does apply a DoT. It's called Necrotic Remnant, and it's unavoidable and unpurgeable. While it isn't something that you can shrug off and ignore, the damage isn't that high, at least in comparison with other DLC dungeon DoTs. The DoT is in the ballpark of 6K/s on Hard Mode, which is about half of the strength of Nazaray's lurcher DoT or Arkasis's burning sensation.

    I use Puncturing Remedy (DSA 1H&S) on my front bar, keep my own heals up, and I'm able to survive the DoT even if the healer is dead or otherwise preoccupied.

    There is no DoT damage from the abomination. Instead, it has a very painful light attack that you should always block. Most tanks who die to the abomination do so when they drop block and eat a couple of those light attacks unblocked.

    Magicka DDs for the Orbs so you don't have to chase them down with Melee
    You need to hit the orb with a single-target direct damage attack. Yea, you can run up to it and hit it with a melee ability, but a ranged light attack with a bow will work just as well. And there are ranged stamina abilities, such as Hidden Blade or Silver Bolts. But, ideally, the supports should get the orbs. The healers can light-attack with their staves, and the tank can hit it with their ranged taunt.

    On regular vet, there are only two orbs, which makes that mechanic quite a bit easier to deal with. Something that I've been doing as the tank in my recent runs of Graven Deep is to slot Propelling Siege Shield (the range extension morph of the first skill in the Alliance War Support line). It makes it easy to reach all of the orb pads from the middle of the room. If I'm running Graven Deep with PUGs via the Dungeon Finder and they don't know the orb mechanic, I can solo the orbs using my ranged taunt with a little bit of help from the Siege Shield.
    Edited by code65536 on January 18, 2024 4:45AM
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