Luckylancer wrote: »It is toxic to demand me wait. I quest to the dungeon and I can run ahead. If I dont die it is ok.
When I want to do quest I dont force others to play the way I want. I solo the dungeon.
Dax_Draconis wrote: »They should offer additional rewards for completing dungeons that have an active quest for any group members. They should also stop bosses from spawning until all group members are in range.
It's really backward thinking to expect players to have no choice but to make a premade group to complete a quest and run a dungeon as intended, instead of using the group finder tool.
universeman444 wrote: »when you join a rnd and have a fake heal arcanist you just know it's time to hit that auto run button while they run ahead and melt everything. very fun. very engaging gameplay
Speed run normal dungeons are the best way to get people to quit the game, and not learning the basics (look where you stand). It´s a lottery going into a dungeon, with the aim to do a quest, which create stress, as the player don´t know if he/she have to do several runs or got lucky this time around (and much more stress if they have to run several times).
Speed run normal dungeons are the best way to get people to quit the game, and not learning the basics (look where you stand). It´s a lottery going into a dungeon, with the aim to do a quest, which create stress, as the player don´t know if he/she have to do several runs or got lucky this time around (and much more stress if they have to run several times).
This is purely anecdotal. You can absolutely learn the game and have a good time if you don't spend 20 min banished cells I.
I was also a new player once and I was far more impressed with what ease the experienced players where able to breeze through dungeons, while I was taking a beating from slightly too large overland pulls. It served more as an inspiration. If a mechanic isn't punishing, it is not worth learning.
Dax_Draconis wrote: »They should offer additional rewards for completing dungeons that have an active quest for any group members. They should also stop bosses from spawning until all group members are in range.
It's really backward thinking to expect players to have no choice but to make a premade group to complete a quest and run a dungeon as intended, instead of using the group finder tool.
Level synced dungeons and level synced player will help alot plus your idea. Also get the trinity working.
Dax_Draconis wrote: »Dax_Draconis wrote: »They should offer additional rewards for completing dungeons that have an active quest for any group members. They should also stop bosses from spawning until all group members are in range.
It's really backward thinking to expect players to have no choice but to make a premade group to complete a quest and run a dungeon as intended, instead of using the group finder tool.
Level synced dungeons and level synced player will help alot plus your idea. Also get the trinity working.
Level doesn't really matter much because not all players that are new to a dungeon are low level. I took a break from ESO and now have many DLC dungeons I have never been in before. Problem is that everyone speeds through them, and while I can pick up the quest, I have no idea what is even going on because I can't stop to listen to the story at all.
The other day I was in one and there was something about mixing ingredients together and another part about turning into giant werewolves, but since the group wanted to speed through it, I still have no idea what that dungeon was about. I feel like the Devs are wasting their time even making a story for these dungeons as it seems impossible to even experience them as intended.
The players who speedrun random normals will continue to do so regardless of what anyone else says because the rewards are so good. They play this game for their own enjoyment which doesn't include yours. The simple fix is to not make it worthwhile to speedrun random normals.
BejaProphet wrote: »Two moves would solve the dungeon problems.
1. Stop letting every alt get a first random dungeon of the day boost. Currently we get extra rewards for doing a first random dungeon. Then if you log onto a new character, you get it again. This causes people to try and run it with twelve different alts. If DD’s have a thirty minute wait time (or more) then that is 6+ hours of waiting per day. This is driving people to fake tank and rush dungeons both. It would be far better to tie first time rewards to each “role.” Not each character.
2. Simply let there be an option to accept a group without the “holy trinity” of tank, DD, healer when using group finder. A fake tank is choosing to not have a tank in exchange for faster queue time. So just give them that option! All the DD’s willing to rush with no tank will get in faster. This will relieve the incentive to fake tank AND ALSO lower the wait for DD’s who do want a tank and healer.
These two actions would solve most frustrations instantly.
boi_anachronism_ wrote: »BejaProphet wrote: »Two moves would solve the dungeon problems.
1. Stop letting every alt get a first random dungeon of the day boost. Currently we get extra rewards for doing a first random dungeon. Then if you log onto a new character, you get it again. This causes people to try and run it with twelve different alts. If DD’s have a thirty minute wait time (or more) then that is 6+ hours of waiting per day. This is driving people to fake tank and rush dungeons both. It would be far better to tie first time rewards to each “role.” Not each character.
2. Simply let there be an option to accept a group without the “holy trinity” of tank, DD, healer when using group finder. A fake tank is choosing to not have a tank in exchange for faster queue time. So just give them that option! All the DD’s willing to rush with no tank will get in faster. This will relieve the incentive to fake tank AND ALSO lower the wait for DD’s who do want a tank and healer.
These two actions would solve most frustrations instantly.
I think you would get a massive backlash on the first one. Transmutes are rare as it is. Raiders and pvpers on every level utilize them constantly by sheer necessity, especially pve supports. I can tell you from experience that they have a literal closet of sets to do their jobs effectively since group comp and buffs are all important and they need to adjust constantly. There would have to be an alternative to recover that. Think about this: even if you have everything collected for a set making 5 pieces will cost you 125 transmutes.Thats 4 days unless you supplement with undaunted (which has just as much of the same issue with speed running), ToT which many people despise, or pvp which is also a sore subject for many. For trial sets most people just don't have a full book. Even people on some of my teams dont have full books for a lot of trials. Right now it costs me 35 to 40 for one piece depending on the trial. Doing it by role assumes everyone has all three and can play them reasonably well. A lot of folks don't, can't, or are just plain bored by certain roles.
As i said if they wanted to do that it would have to be supplemented there would just be too much negative kickback over it.
BejaProphet wrote: »If they need to conjure a new five piece set into existence more than once every 4 days then there is a bigger issue to discuss.
Probably your trial leaders stupid expectations. But perhaps a game issue.
BejaProphet wrote: »If they need to conjure a new five piece set into existence more than once every 4 days then there is a bigger issue to discuss.
Probably your trial leaders stupid expectations. But perhaps a game issue.
In more ambitious groups, it's not uncommon to reconstruct new sets when switching to a new trial or trying out new strategies. Nothing to do with trial leader being "stupid", but simply an attempt to optimize the group composition. It won't happen continuously every 4 days, 365 days a year, but often enough to make your first idea a non-starter.
Similarly, new people starting to tank or heal usually need to create a couple of sets and most of them won't have a full stickerbook. We once did a survey in our (trading) guild asking why people don't play support that much and the most common answer was not having the required gear. Let's not make that worse.
So, instead of taking away multiple daily rewards, I would add a new queue specifically marked as slow-paced or story-driven. Give it the same rewards, but put it on the same cooldown as the regular RND. There would be no speed-runners, because they would go with the faster RND option with each of their toons. At the same time, people who want to quest have an automatic queue option with full rewards as well.
Honest question: as I see this speed running come up a lot, if we kill everything, is it still speed running? Or, as I see it, more efficient use of time and resources
BejaProphet wrote: »Also keep in mind my suggestion leaves you at 30 bonus crystals a day. As you are rewarded for each role. + up to 15 for each of those three characters for pledges. 75 a day is pretty fast. For just three characters. And you can stick pile a thousand for those burst moments during new trials. That’s plenty.
BejaProphet wrote: »Also keep in mind my suggestion leaves you at 30 bonus crystals a day. As you are rewarded for each role. + up to 15 for each of those three characters for pledges. 75 a day is pretty fast. For just three characters. And you can stick pile a thousand for those burst moments during new trials. That’s plenty.
While I share your goal of improving the RND experience, I don't think your suggestion is viable, because it actively makes things worse for many players:
- You'd get 75 transmutes for running 12 dungeons, including 3 quick RNDs and 9 potentially painful pledges on veteran hard mode. Whatever you personally consider a fast pace for farming transmutes, this is still way slower than today.
- Not everyone has ESO+ double storage space. Not everyone wants to plan weeks ahead and grind dungeons when they don't have to. And even if they do, your proposal still makes it much slower than it is today.
- You're essentially punishing people who need transmutes for whatever reason, which also includes every nice player who patiently waits for group members with quests. That alone disqualifies the suggestion in my mind.
- Also, how does forcing people to queue as tank and heal for rewards prevent fake-tanks and fake-heals?
People who want transmutes and people who want story both have valid reasons to run dungeons the way they want. The problem is that there is no middle ground that can truly accommodate both. So the best solution is to provide a simple way of running with like-minded players.
Again, my suggestion would be to add a third random queue option for a slow-paced, story-focused run on normal difficulty. Since each character only gets the transmutes once per day for any of the random queues, a speed-runner will still pick the current RND queue and not "pollute" the story queue.
No thanks, I obviously can't change your mind and won't try further. It's fine, though. Thanks for the discussion.BejaProphet wrote: »The system is flawed. First, you do not NEED to get more than 30 transmutes a day. You don’t. I completely and utterly reject any reasoning thus far given to suggest that you NEED that. It’s nonsense. It is self-evidently nonsense. Change my mind if you can.
No one is forcing anybody to do anything. But if you WANT to farm transmutes on twelve characters, you currently can. I don't want to take that option away from people, including the nice ones who don't rush or fake roles in dungeons. My suggestion still allows for it (in my opinion).BejaProphet wrote: »But second stop and consider the current system. Are we seriously saying that a system which forces me to make twelve characters to optimize my time is “working as intended?” That too is nonsense. It is a design flaw in the incentive structure.
People would still do the 3 RNDs, where you get rewards, with fake roles.BejaProphet wrote: »Finally, this would work to reduce fake tanks because it would immediately remove the desire for most people to run 12+ random dungeons a day. For many it is the sheer amount of dungeons that are crammed into their schedule that makes them say, “screw it, I’ll just say I’m a tank.” But then also that will only benefit them once a day. It would instantly change the reward for bad behavior.